AAU

[Puck Yeah]

the problem when you get down to it is the fact that compared to traditional hockey markets we don't have a level of participation to have our levels on par with the levels of those markets.  We have one or two birth year teams at each age level that can compete in Detroit or Toronto playing against kids their own age but here they need to play up to get a similar level of competition.  The 03 and 05 Kings come to mind as well as the 05 and 06 Ducks.  Those teams have played up as a team and have developed into nationally recognized teams because of it.  If they had stayed in their age group, we would be hearing complaints that they should be playing up.  The 03 Kings destroyed Squirt A and PeeWee A when they played up.  In PeeWee A they were 16-0 with 159 goals for and 16 against.  That's an average victory margin of of 10-1.  Can anyone honestly say that this team should have stayed in Squirt A?  The only rational argument here is that they should have played up another level in Peewee AA.

there are some kids that can play up, but probably less than 10% of the amount of kids that are currently playing. SCAHA would have to hold a weekend tryout to evaluate who should or could play up. Imagine what that would be like when all the Little Gretzky's don't get the right to play up. And if you leave it up to the parents and coaches you'll continue to have the mess we have now. Easiest solution is to not let anyone play up! It'll all work itself out.

An extra year of mite is not going to make a bit of difference.  At Bantam you will never be able to guess who played up and who didn't.  10% is WAY high.  We are going to have a juggernaut in 10 years with all these prodigies hitting the NHL at the same time. 

Somewhere out there practicing on a little back yard pond in the North is a kid that 6 years is going to skate circles around the SoCal mite that needs to play up.

[#4BobbyOrr]

not letting mites play up though doesn't keep squirts from playing peewee, so how does that sort it out?  as I said before squirt right now is diluted because too many 06's are playing peewee, not because too many mites are playing squirt.  scaha could easily solve it by limiting player ups to birth year teams and then limiting player up roster spots on mixed teams to anywhere from 1 to 3 spots. The GTHL in Toronto, for instance, allows their squirt aged teams to add up to three mite aged players on their roster, who have to be 8.  Their are a lot of ways to skin this cat, there is plenty of daylight between the wild west that this has become and the one size fits all no exception rule they have implemented.

[Puck Yeah]

not letting mites play up though doesn't keep squirts from playing peewee, so how does that sort it out?  as I said before squirt right now is diluted because too many 06's are playing peewee, not because too many mites are playing squirt.  scaha could easily solve it by limiting player ups to birth year teams and then limiting player up roster spots on mixed teams to anywhere from 1 to 3 spots. The GTHL in Toronto, for instance, allows their squirt aged teams to add up to three mite aged players on their roster, who have to be 8.  Their are a lot of ways to skin this cat, there is plenty of daylight between the wild west that this has become and the one size fits all no exception rule they have implemented.

I think the only way to possibly do it is birth year teams.  My son played up as a squirt to PW and in hindsight is may have been detrimental.  It made him less offensive minded and much more defensive.  One year is a lot at that age.  I would not do it again if I had to do over.  I did not seek to have him play up he was asked.  Looking at old pix there was a big difference in size between him and the 2nd year PWs.  The cream will rise to the top by Bantams and Midgets.  Let them have fun at mites.

[area51]

not letting mites play up though doesn't keep squirts from playing peewee, so how does that sort it out?  as I said before squirt right now is diluted because too many 06's are playing peewee, not because too many mites are playing squirt.  scaha could easily solve it by limiting player ups to birth year teams and then limiting player up roster spots on mixed teams to anywhere from 1 to 3 spots. The GTHL in Toronto, for instance, allows their squirt aged teams to add up to three mite aged players on their roster, who have to be 8.  Their are a lot of ways to skin this cat, there is plenty of daylight between the wild west that this has become and the one size fits all no exception rule they have implemented.

I think the only way to possibly do it is birth year teams.  My son played up as a squirt to PW and in hindsight is may have been detrimental.  It made him less offensive minded and much more defensive.  One year is a lot at that age.  I would not do it again if I had to do over.  I did not seek to have him play up he was asked.  Looking at old pix there was a big difference in size between him and the 2nd year PWs.  The cream will rise to the top by Bantams and Midgets.  Let them have fun at mites.

"Let them have fun at mites"!!! that's what the parents forget. It's a game and these kids 6, 7 and 8 years old...Mites and squirts is the time they should be having fun and loving the game, but parents need to develop a future NHL'r

[trans4761]

not letting mites play up though doesn't keep squirts from playing peewee, so how does that sort it out?  as I said before squirt right now is diluted because too many 06's are playing peewee, not because too many mites are playing squirt.  scaha could easily solve it by limiting player ups to birth year teams and then limiting player up roster spots on mixed teams to anywhere from 1 to 3 spots. The GTHL in Toronto, for instance, allows their squirt aged teams to add up to three mite aged players on their roster, who have to be 8.  Their are a lot of ways to skin this cat, there is plenty of daylight between the wild west that this has become and the one size fits all no exception rule they have implemented.

Come on A51,  that 07 team was assembled in the womb.  They are going to Quebec..........this year.

I think the only way to possibly do it is birth year teams.  My son played up as a squirt to PW and in hindsight is may have been detrimental.  It made him less offensive minded and much more defensive.  One year is a lot at that age.  I would not do it again if I had to do over.  I did not seek to have him play up he was asked.  Looking at old pix there was a big difference in size between him and the 2nd year PWs.  The cream will rise to the top by Bantams and Midgets.  Let them have fun at mites.

"Let them have fun at mites"!!! that's what the parents forget. It's a game and these kids 6, 7 and 8 years old...Mites and squirts is the time they should be having fun and loving the game, but parents need to develop a future NHL'r

[09 Dad]

#4BobbyOrr has the better of the arguments here.  If the kid has superior skills/size & fits in best with the year-up's class, then he should be playing up (or at least have the option).  Simply stating that the play-up year won't matter by the time he's a bantam is pure speculation -- maybe during that year he plays up, he plays for an awesome coach he would not have normally met.  Maybe he meets his new best friends, who motivate themselves to work hard as a group and ultimately win nationals like the old LAHC group.  Anything's possible.     


As for the notion that we should just let the mites "have fun" while they're young, that sounds great -- problem is, SCAHA has watered down the mites games so badly, that it hardly constitutes "fun" in any real hockey or competitive sense.  It's a scrimmage game, at best.


No score is kept.
Games are 17 minutes long.  (One period only)
There are no standings.
There are no stats.
About half the games, seemingly at random, are played with mini-nets.
No power plays or short-handed play.
Ultimately, no playoffs or champion. 


Note to SCAHA:  Want to avoid the rush to play-up into squirts?  Make mites more interesting for the players and parents!  Most of the parents are on-board with the small area games (virtually everyone is on-board with the half-ice version), it's the other, easily fixable, stuff listed above that make us want to bail out.   

[Crash]

My kid is older, so I didn't know some of this mites stuff.


it's horrifying, like you guys said, half ice is great, but the rest is ridiculous.


The Russians, Canadians, Finns, Czechs, Slovaks, Swedes and Bahamians are keeping score, trust me.


We skated in the back yard until a) the streetlights came on b) someone's mom was screaming from the back porch, c) we lost the puck. The score might be 17-3 but then it would be "next goal wins" and the game is on.


The South Koreans, right now, are living in Finland and eating moose meat and training for TWO YEARS away from home because they don't want to be humiliated at their Winter Olympics.


Just saying'.

[Puck Yeah]

#4BobbyOrr has the better of the arguments here.  If the kid has superior skills/size & fits in best with the year-up's class, then he should be playing up (or at least have the option).  Simply stating that the play-up year won't matter by the time he's a bantam is pure speculation -- maybe during that year he plays up, he plays for an awesome coach he would not have normally met.  Maybe he meets his new best friends, who motivate themselves to work hard as a group and ultimately win nationals like the old LAHC group.  Anything's possible.     


As for the notion that we should just let the mites "have fun" while they're young, that sounds great -- problem is, SCAHA has watered down the mites games so badly, that it hardly constitutes "fun" in any real hockey or competitive sense.  It's a scrimmage game, at best.


No score is kept.
Games are 17 minutes long.  (One period only)
There are no standings.
There are no stats.
About half the games, seemingly at random, are played with mini-nets.
No power plays or short-handed play.
Ultimately, no playoffs or champion. 


Note to SCAHA:  Want to avoid the rush to play-up into squirts?  Make mites more interesting for the players and parents!  Most of the parents are on-board with the small area games (virtually everyone is on-board with the half-ice version), it's the other, easily fixable, stuff listed above that make us want to bail out.

I guess my point is the use of "maybe"   Maybe anything.  He is just as likely to get a lousy coach as a great coach.

My other point would be even if true..... so what?  In the grand scheme it will be a lot of nothing.

What is the best thing that could happen?  The boy plays up and does fine.  It won't make the difference in a D1 scholarship in 12 years anyway.  The worst?  Playing up against bigger stronger faster kids gets him injured.

So the kid scores 5 goals a game and out plays other 7 and 8 year olds.  What is the huge downside?  I have never seen a kid that gets tired of scoring.

In reality the chances of the stand out mite being a standout in 8 years are low.  Many won't even be playing the game after they get the taste knocked out of their mouth at Bantam or start chasing skirts.  Is it really important to play up at mites to be a great beer league player?

Playing up should probably just be abandoned.  There is nothing so profound at the next level between mite, squirt and pw that it will make an ounce of difference in the long haul

[BigDuke6]

I wonder what percent of players that have college scholarships would point back to playing up (if they did) as a mite or squirt as one of the pivotal choices that lead to their success.

[Puck Yeah]

I wonder what percent of players that have college scholarships would point back to playing up (if they did) as a mite or squirt as one of the pivotal choices that lead to their success.

I don't know what the percentage is, but I am sure it would start with a .0 something.

[#4BobbyOrr]

Last weekend I watched an 09 track 1 team beat an 08 track 1 team in a full ice controlled scrimmage by about 8 goals.  Next year all of those 08's are required to play squirts (full ice).  All of those 09's will be required to play cross ice.  How does  this make sense?

[Puck Yeah]

Last weekend I watched an 09 track 1 team beat an 08 track 1 team in a full ice controlled scrimmage by about 8 goals.  Next year all of those 08's are required to play squirts (full ice).  All of those 09's will be required to play cross ice.  How does  this make sense?

How does it make sense?  I think it is pretty clear.  They are  08 and 09s.


In 5 years you won't be able to tell which kid was on the winning or losing team in your example.


It is simple, playing up does NOT equal a fast track. 


People that believe their kid needs to play up are kidding themselves.  I know an 02 that was a REAL standout at Squirt and PW.  The maturity in his skating and moves was really something to watch as a 2nd year Squirt.  I couldn't believe the boy was a squirt.  He went on to play AAA PW, first year AAA BTN and now 2nd year AAA BTN.  He is not a stand out anymore. Low/Middle of the pack at best.  Everyone caught up.  That's what happens in hockey.

[Ziegler]

Im lucky because my boys didn't have to go through this ADM nonsense...and it is nonsense. You are paying the same amount of cash for less ice.  Its a scam. No teaching/learning of offsides, icing, penalty kill. Lets call it for what it is, another cash grab. Also, playing up isn't the evil its made out to be as long as you are objectively looking at your child's skill set.

[Puck Yeah]

Im lucky because my boys didn't have to go through this ADM nonsense...and it is nonsense. You are paying the same amount of cash for less ice.  Its a scam. No teaching/learning of offsides, icing, penalty kill. Lets call it for what it is, another cash grab. Also, playing up isn't the evil its made out to be as long as you are objectively looking at your child's skill set.

Why is it important to learn offsides, icing and PK at 7 and 8?  It's not.  There are kids that don't even play the game until they are 9 or 10.  My son was around 9 1/2. How is it that they become top players?


A kid can watch on game live or on TV and understand icing, offsides and PK.  PK at mites?  Really?  I really think advocates of playing up should print out these post and open them up and read them in 5 years for a good chuckle.

[Crash]

ADM is not perfect.


But, the kids playing ADM get to handle the puck more and work on the boards more and that's what is important. Also the ice size is proportional to their size. No one ever mentions that.


Actually, cross ice is approximate to a back yard or neighborhood rink back home, or even what you'd scrape off the lake. Nobody scrapes off an NHL size rink for little kids.


Yes offsides will drive you nuts at this age, but as someone else posted, they can learn all that on TV.


As for playing "Up", it has to be decided on an individual basis. Playing "Up" to sit on the bench is a joke. You want your kid having a regular shift, PP and PK time, and "the coach trusts him" situations (last minute of game, one goal lead).


There is also the social aspect. Kids want to play with their friends. Leave your ego out of it.