Dear CAHA Associations and Members,
In a continual effort to improve our league the CAHA Board of Directors appointed a special Tier Committee to assess the Tier II (AA) division in hopes of improving competitiveness and address ongoing concerns of our membership. Based on their recent proposal, the CAHA Board of Directors voted in favor of the below changes Tier II for the 2017/2018 season.
All teams that wish to declare 12u, 14u or 16u Tier II (AA) must attend the CAHA Labor Day Jamboree in San Jose, CA September 1-4, 2017. Teams may also be required to participate in 2 weeks of local ‘pre-season’ games. Following evaluations teams will be placed accordingly as follows:
1. Placed in top flight of division
2. Placed in bottom flight of division
3. Removed from the Tier II division (dropped to ‘A’)
All teams shall play each team within their respective flight during CAHA mandated weekends.
At the conclusion of the regular season, the 1st place team in the top flight will automatically advance to State Championships. Playdowns will include the 2nd – 8th place teams in the top flight. The top team in the bottom flight will have a chance to compete for the final playdown spot.
Additional details will be available following the June CAHA Board of Directors meeting.
All Tier II teams must meet the feeder and PDR requirements as previously set forth by the CAHA Board of Directors. These changes do not include the 18u division.
We hope this information helps prepare your organization for the upcoming tryouts and teams declarations. Please feel free to contact your local league President or myself, Laura Cahn, with questions.
| Club | Team | Coaches | Home Rink | Info |
| Bears | AA | Gevorkyan (h), Sokol (a) | Pickwick | Gevorkyan coached Peewee A last season. Mostly '05 |
| Jr Flyers | AA | Berge (h) | Ice Station | Josh Berge is the WSHL Jr team coach. '05' |
| Saints | 1 | Robinson (h), Beaty (a) | Carlsbad | Robinson returning |
| Saints | 2 | Snyder (h), Cunningham (a) | Carlsbad | |
| OCHC | 1 | Horn | Yorba Linda | Coached Peewee A 2016 |
| OCHC | 2 | Shand (h) Smerud (a) | Yorba Linda | |
| Jr Gulls | 1 | Dufour (h) | Iceplex Escondido | 12U Minor AAA |
| Jr Gulls | 2 | Pruden (h) | Iceplex Escondido | |
| Jr Kings | 1 | Tatavosian (h) Beebee, Daughaday (a) | El Segundo | Coached Wave 3 Bantams. 05/06 |
| Jr Kings | 2 | Stuart/Turcotte (h) Cornforth (a) | El Segundo | 2007 Team |
| Jr Ducks | 1 | Kohn (h) Viau (a) | TBA | Coached Peewee AA 2016 |
| Jr Ducks | 2 | Vasilevsky (h), Kabanets (a) | TBA | Coached '04 AAA |
| Jr Reign | AA | Esdale (h) | Paramount | Formerly the Wildcats |
| Ice Dogs | 1 | Riley (h) | KHS | |
| Ice Dogs | 2 | White (h) | KHS | |
| Jr Sharks | AA | Dragotto(h) | Sharks Ice SJ | |
| GSE North | 1 | Alexius (h) | TBA | |
| GSE South | 2 | Rodriguez (h) | TBA | |
| Blackhawks | AA | Lino Persi(h) | Sharks Ice Fremont | Persi asst Bantam AA coach 2016 |
| Colts | AA | TBA (h) | Oak Park Ice |
It may be helpful to a lot of readers if some one spelled out what the CAHA weekend system will be and how that interacts with the SCAHA schedule.
Does SCAHA still issue an exhibition schedule or do teams have to set exhibition games up themselves?
How many AA teams will the Jr Ducks have and who will be the coaches next season?Each team is allowed 2 tier 2 teams max .......unless they change the rules for their benefit. ;)
How many AA teams will the Jr Ducks have and who will be the coaches next season?
Anyone happen to know when the Jr Kings will have their clinics for Peewee?
Anyone happen to know when the Jr Kings will have their clinics for Peewee?
Just saw the new CAHA post:
In a continual effort to improve our league the CAHA Board of Directors appointed a special Tier Committee to assess the Tier II (AA) division in hopes of improving competitiveness and address ongoing concerns of our membership. Based on their recent proposal, the CAHA Board of Directors voted in favor of the below changes Tier II for the 2017/2018 season.All teams that wish to declare 12u, 14u or 16u Tier II (AA) must attend the CAHA Labor Day Jamboree in San Jose, CA September 1-4, 2017. Teams may also be required to participate in 2 weeks of local ‘pre-season’ games. Following evaluations teams will be placed accordingly as follows:1. Placed in top flight of division2. Placed in bottom flight of division3. Removed from the Tier II division (dropped to ‘A’)All teams shall play each team within their respective flight during CAHA mandated weekends.At the conclusion of the regular season, the 1st place team in the top flight will automatically advance to State Championships. Playdowns will include the 2nd – 8th place teams in the top flight. The top team in the bottom flight will have a chance to compete for the final playdown spot.Additional details will be available following the June CAHA Board of Directors meeting.All Tier II teams must meet the feeder and PDR requirements as previously set forth by the CAHA Board of Directors. These changes do not include the 18u division.
At the conclusion of the regular season, the 1st place team in the top flight will automatically advance to State Championships.
At the conclusion of the regular season, the 1st place team in the top flight will automatically advance to State Championships.
::) In what sport does the team finishing first during the REGULAR SEASON gets an automatic ticket to the Championship!? Did somebody complain about getting upset by an 8th seed underdog or what?
So will only 8 teams make AA and the rest dropped to A? Or is it 8 and 8 in each Division?
So will only 8 teams make AA and the rest dropped to A? Or is it 8 and 8 in each Division?
Doesn't sound like they are putting a number to it. Could be 10 in top and 6 in bottom; I would guess (not assume) it depends on the number of teams declaring. if they can't make bottom, then they could get dropped to A.
It puts alot of emphasis on the CAHA weekends for sure!!!So will only 8 teams make AA and the rest dropped to A? Or is it 8 and 8 in each Division?
Doesn't sound like they are putting a number to it. Could be 10 in top and 6 in bottom; I would guess (not assume) it depends on the number of teams declaring. if they can't make bottom, then they could get dropped to A.
Interesting! I think the top team getting a free ride to States is dumb however.
It puts alot of emphasis on the CAHA weekends for sure!!!So will only 8 teams make AA and the rest dropped to A? Or is it 8 and 8 in each Division?
Doesn't sound like they are putting a number to it. Could be 10 in top and 6 in bottom; I would guess (not assume) it depends on the number of teams declaring. if they can't make bottom, then they could get dropped to A.
Interesting! I think the top team getting a free ride to States is dumb however.
And there it is.. those 07 teams! Humm??It puts alot of emphasis on the CAHA weekends for sure!!!So will only 8 teams make AA and the rest dropped to A? Or is it 8 and 8 in each Division?
Doesn't sound like they are putting a number to it. Could be 10 in top and 6 in bottom; I would guess (not assume) it depends on the number of teams declaring. if they can't make bottom, then they could get dropped to A.
Interesting! I think the top team getting a free ride to States is dumb however.
Wait so all the 07 teams playing up into AA this year are going to take spots from legitimate AA teams and players and then not have to play them when the little Gretzkys can't hang with the kids 3 years older than them. [size=78%]This just gets better and better.[/size]
If a team that declares AA and then gets bumped down to A does the club get to field another AA team or is that bid just lost?
"At the conclusion of the regular season, the 1st place team in the top flight will automatically advance to State Championships. Playdowns will include the 2nd – 8th place teams in the top flight. The top team in the bottom flight will have a chance to compete for the final playdown spot."
* * *
This makes me think that there will be more than 8 teams per flight and that the reward for finishing first in the second division is a chance to compete with the bottom of flight 1 in a play-in series of games for the last playdown spot. Confusing, not sure what we are buying if we go AA.
The geniuses at CAHA strike again. I can't imagine a more convoluted and stupid system. Now we have AA and Aa.
The geniuses at CAHA strike again. I can't imagine a more convoluted and stupid system. Now we have AA and Aa.
HAHAHA!! Needed that laugh this early in the morning!
This is a weird innovation. Some very good questions and criticisms so far. One concern is that by selecting playoff teams after a short preseason, CAHA rewards teams that have kept a team together for several years (the big clubs) and/or practice long and hard through the summer. Where does that leave the idea of playing other sports in the summer or just doing ordinary things with one's family and taking a break from hockey. It seems to encourage professionalizing youth hockey for 11-12 year old players and those 10 year old teams destined for AAA. CAHA should go back to the drawing boards.
Yes... That's exactly what I was thinking too! If they base off early season play, those teams that have been together for years will take a big advantage because typically, it takes time for teams that are not already formed to get in the groove of things. Last year, prime example! OC2 and Eagles weren't really part of early discussions of taking playoff spots. However, it's clear they put the extra effort/ice time/ lessons... to get better and better and they were the top 2. Just say'in it seems like the "super teams" will prevail here!To your point about OC2 and Eagles.. They were pretty much in the "Top Flight" bracket all season so it would have been a non-issue. In your example, it shows that it worked out just fine.
GSE PWAA went undefeated this season and got knocked out early. They would of went straight to the states this year with this rule. Now look at who to contact on CAHA website about this new rule and who is head of the GSE teams. Coincidence?
GSE PWAA went undefeated this season and got knocked out early. They would of went straight to the states this year with this rule. Now look at who to contact on CAHA website about this new rule and who is head of the GSE teams. Coincidence?
This is ridiculous! How is it that Tier 1 and A/B are exempt from this nonsense? What if a team gets pushed to pw A and a bunch of last years 06 squirt b teams decide that's where they want to play? ??? ?? Based on the GSE variable, I'd say this was an emotional decision that was not completely thought through.....obviously....
GSE PWAA went undefeated this season and got knocked out early. They would of went straight to the states this year with this rule. Now look at who to contact on CAHA website about this new rule and who is head of the GSE teams. Coincidence?
The geniuses at CAHA strike again. I can't imagine a more convoluted and stupid system. Now we have AA and Aa.
Great post, Icadad.[size=78%]It's not too late and I heard that the details of this proposal still have to be worked out. But I "think" as Icedad wrote, it's not the right one.[/size]
So many problems with the new system. It seems to me that it is very important for those of us who do not like the new system to do more than vent on this board. Call and email your club and CAHA. Perhaps its not too late to save CAHA from itself or at least tweak the system.
At this age, it is critical kids learn how to win with grace and lose with dignity! Having a team a sure in to a championship is not teaching them anything! If an 8th place seed beats a 1st place seed in playoffs, it teaches those kids that they have to work hard regardless of their rank. It teaches them anyone can win on any given day depending on which teams wants it more and pushes hard! It teaches that 8th place seed to not give up! So many life lessons in youth sports and not just pertaining to hockey. Just like everyone gets a trophy syndrome! What are we teaching our children that already are feeling "privileged"!How can we expect the kids to lose with dignity when the parents can't ?
Yes... That's exactly what I was thinking too! If they base off early season play, those teams that have been together for years will take a big advantage because typically, it takes time for teams that are not already formed to get in the groove of things. Last year, prime example! OC2 and Eagles weren't really part of early discussions of taking playoff spots. However, it's clear they put the extra effort/ice time/ lessons... to get better and better and they were the top 2. Just say'in it seems like the "super teams" will prevail here!
Yes... That's exactly what I was thinking too! If they base off early season play, those teams that have been together for years will take a big advantage because typically, it takes time for teams that are not already formed to get in the groove of things. Last year, prime example! OC2 and Eagles weren't really part of early discussions of taking playoff spots. However, it's clear they put the extra effort/ice time/ lessons... to get better and better and they were the top 2. Just say'in it seems like the "super teams" will prevail here!
What do you mean OC 2 and Eagles were not mentioned to be in the playoffs early on? I had predicted OC2 to be one of the top 4 spots and that was just from looking at pre season stats. Still wish I had placed money on it. Hey they even ended up as number 1. SCAHA champs!
I agree 7 levels? That's crazy. Why not go back to just A and B? B should be current A, bb, and b combined. And A should be the current aaa, aa. After all they are only the 12 year olds. Then nobody has to chase the extra A. 🤣 I don't believe they have all these levels back east. Either your kid is an A or B. Too many levels to choose from. Can anyone really break down what skills are needed for each level?
QuoteI agree 7 levels? That's crazy. Why not go back to just A and B? B should be current A, bb, and b combined. And A should be the current aaa, aa. After all they are only the 12 year olds. Then nobody has to chase the extra A. 🤣 I don't believe they have all these levels back east. Either your kid is an A or B. Too many levels to choose from. Can anyone really break down what skills are needed for each level?
Skates,
On the east coast they have AAA, AA, A & B. With that said, due to the unnatural compression of teams at AAA, many kids who would otherwise be playing AAA are playing AA here. This is somewhat due to geography, and I suppose the number of players available at each age group. On the east coast, most of the AAA clubs have full birth year teams at every level they serve, although it's not 100%.
The main difference between AAA here and back east, is the reliance and exorbitant cost of travel. Since there are more AAA teams in the local area, and because you can travel by car or bus to play teams in other cities, teams back east tend to play more games with far less cost attached. Depending on the locale, they also have tryouts and start their practice season much earlier than we do here.
Check out for example, this AAA league: (http://atlantichockey.org/ayhl.php) They have 18 member clubs, and divisions will have from 10-16 teams.
Below AAA is run separately by an entirely different league (http://www.dvhl.org/index.php), and it seems that most of those clubs employ the Titans/Mariners model of having 2 different organizations which may or may not have anything to do with each other, for participation in these leagues. I don't know what is involved in moving kids between the leagues, or how frequently that happens, but as far as I know, in that region which covers 5 different states, there just isn't any attempt at continuity, nor is AAA and AA part of the same league.
In the "tier hockey" there is only AAA. In "club hockey" there is AA, A, B. Nobody is doing BB. And nobody sure as hell is doing anything as absurd as what is being suggested by CAHA for this year in AA.
If it's true that the Wave coach is now at the Ducks, I wonder if a whole new team is being formed or if the Wave is being brought over. Looks like it opens more spots for kids still looking for a team.
Artesia Wave - none
Ontario - ?
Gold Rush Hockey - none
Jr. Ducks - Kohn and Eugene
Jr. Ducks - Vasilevsky and Caban (listed also as PW A HC @Wave)
Jr. Kings 05/06 - Tatavosian
Jr. Kings 07 - Stuart and Turcotte
OCHC - 2 Shand and Horn
Bears - Kim, Gevorkyan
Valencia - 1
Jr. Reign - 1 Esdale
Gulls - 1 ?
Saints (Carlsbad) - Robinson
Mariners - DuHadway
Ice Dogs - Riley
Ice Dogs - White
Heat - ?
Keep new info/changes coming, guys!
Artesia Wave - none
Ontario - ?
Gold Rush Hockey - none
Jr. Ducks - Kohn and Eugene
Jr. Ducks - Vasilevsky and Caban (listed also as PW A HC @Wave)
Jr. Kings 05/06 - Tatavosian
Jr. Kings 07 - Stuart and Turcotte
OCHC - Shand
OCHC - Horn
Bears - Kim, Gevorkyan
Valencia - 1
Jr. Reign - 1 Esdale
Gulls - 1 ?
Saints (Carlsbad) - Robinson
Mariners - DuHadway
Ice Dogs - Riley
Ice Dogs - White
Heat - ?
Keep new info/changes coming, guys!
I heard Shand OCHC will be out of Yorba too. Does OC have enough kids and talent to fill 2 AA teams?
Artesia Wave - none
Ontario - ?
Gold Rush Hockey - none
Jr. Ducks - Kohn and Eugene
Jr. Ducks - Vasilevsky and Caban (listed also as PW A HC @Wave)
Jr. Kings 05/06 - Tatavosian
Jr. Kings 07 - Stuart and Turcotte
OCHC - 2 I believe not sure of coaching
Bears - Kim, Gevorkyan
Valencia - 1
Jr. Reign - 1 Esdale
Gulls - 1 ?
Saints (Carlsbad) - Robinson
Mariners - DuHadway
Ice Dogs - Riley
Ice Dogs - White
Heat - ?
Keep new info/changes coming, guys!
Did you actually look at the first post in this thread? I will keep it updated right up to tryouts. So the Ice Dogs are really planning to have 2 PWAA teams this season?
I'm pretty surprised about the Jr. Reign as well.
Crease reported 26 skaters at the Shand skate. I just wanted to know if it was at Yorba or Ontario due to the Crease's posting that Shand's team would play and practice out of Yorba...
Crease, when and where is the Shand/Smerud pee wee skate? It is not listed either on the OCHC website or the Yorba Linda ice schedule. Smerud is listed as having a Bantam skate on Mondays followed by s Shand midget skate on Mondays...
I'm sure Empire HC will have AA?Artesia Wave - none
Ontario - ?
Gold Rush Hockey - none
Jr. Ducks - Kohn and Eugene
Jr. Ducks - Vasilevsky and Caban (listed also as PW A HC @Wave)
Jr. Kings 05/06 - Tatavosian
Jr. Kings 07 - Stuart and Turcotte
OCHC - Shand
OCHC - Horn
Bears - Kim, Gevorkyan
Valencia - 1
Jr. Reign - 1 Esdale
Gulls - 1 ?
Saints (Carlsbad) - Robinson
Mariners - DuHadway
Ice Dogs - Riley
Ice Dogs - White
Heat - ?
Keep new info/changes coming, guys!
I guess this is what I meant.
I'm sure Empire HC will have AA?Artesia Wave - none
Ontario - ?
Gold Rush Hockey - none
Jr. Ducks - Kohn and Eugene
Jr. Ducks - Vasilevsky and Caban (listed also as PW A HC @Wave)
Jr. Kings 05/06 - Tatavosian
Jr. Kings 07 - Stuart and Turcotte
OCHC - Shand
OCHC - Horn
Bears - Kim, Gevorkyan
Valencia - 1
Jr. Reign - 1 Esdale
Gulls - 1 ?
Saints (Carlsbad) - Robinson
Mariners - DuHadway
Ice Dogs - Riley
Ice Dogs - White
Heat - ?
Keep new info/changes coming, guys!
I guess this is what I meant.
I'm sure Empire HC will have AA?Artesia Wave - none
Ontario - ?
Gold Rush Hockey - none
Jr. Ducks - Kohn and Eugene
Jr. Ducks - Vasilevsky and Caban (listed also as PW A HC @Wave)
Jr. Kings 05/06 - Tatavosian
Jr. Kings 07 - Stuart and Turcotte
OCHC - Shand
OCHC - Horn
Bears - Kim, Gevorkyan
Valencia - 1
Jr. Reign - 1 Esdale
Gulls - 1 ?
Saints (Carlsbad) - Robinson
Mariners - DuHadway
Ice Dogs - Riley
Ice Dogs - White
Heat - ?
Keep new info/changes coming, guys!
I guess this is what I meant.
Who will be the coach?
The Wave Ont had some 05 kids and maybe some Eagles kids can form a good AA team?
All Clinics and Gym are at Ontario Center Ice. Players bring BOTH and light and dark jersey for scrimmage purposes. Players MUST reserve a spot as we will be limiting headcount to keep it moving and manageable. Reserve to hamacherbrad@gmail.com or 714-658-4358
Prepaid cost is $180 which includes 7 sessions of ice and gym
Reserved week-to-week cost is $30 per session and includes ice and gym
PeeWee (12U) Clinics and Gym
6:20pm - 7:10pm Gym - Strength and Speed Training7:30pm - 8:30pm On Ice Clinic and ScrimmageThursday Nights 4/20, 4/27, 5/4, 5/11, 5/18, 5/25, 6/1Bantam Tier (14U) Clinics and Gym6:50pm - 745pm Gym - Strength and Speed Training
8:00pm - 9:00pm On Ice Clinic and Scrimmage
Wednesday Nights 4/19, 4/26, 5/3, 5/10, 5/17, 5/24, 5/31GOALIES: We are limited to 4 each session. We will have a Goalie Coach on the Ice for you
So what becomes of Runtso and his Pee Wee kids from last season?
So what becomes of Runtso and his Pee Wee kids from last season?
I am sure a lot are trying out for OC or the other 2 AA ducks teams. Many may just stay playing A. Not everybody is a letter chaser at this level I suppose. Given the fact that CAHA has created this bizarre AA rules this season. Sounds like a train wreck!
Maybe the ones that shouldn't be doing AA?So what becomes of Runtso and his Pee Wee kids from last season?
I am sure a lot are trying out for OC or the other 2 AA ducks teams. Many may just stay playing A. Not everybody is a letter chaser at this level I suppose. Given the fact that CAHA has created this bizarre AA rules this season. Sounds like a train wreck!
The bizarre rules for AA this year will push a lot of people away from AA.
Maybe the ones that shouldn't be doing AA?So what becomes of Runtso and his Pee Wee kids from last season?
I am sure a lot are trying out for OC or the other 2 AA ducks teams. Many may just stay playing A. Not everybody is a letter chaser at this level I suppose. Given the fact that CAHA has created this bizarre AA rules this season. Sounds like a train wreck!
The bizarre rules for AA this year will push a lot of people away from AA.
Maybe the ones that shouldn't be doing AA?So what becomes of Runtso and his Pee Wee kids from last season?
I am sure a lot are trying out for OC or the other 2 AA ducks teams. Many may just stay playing A. Not everybody is a letter chaser at this level I suppose. Given the fact that CAHA has created this bizarre AA rules this season. Sounds like a train wreck!
The bizarre rules for AA this year will push a lot of people away from AA.
Maybe...
This favors the teams that have been together which really minimizes the development aspect of the sport. This also penalizes the teams that are middle of the road teams in the beginning that then jell and dramatically and improve.
The Gulls got the AAA bid and then (I heard) announced they weren't fielding a AAA team. In this case what does CAHA do? Does another club get it?
Crease, when and where is the Shand/Smerud pee wee skate? It is not listed either on the OCHC website or the Yorba Linda ice schedule. Smerud is listed as having a Bantam skate on Mondays followed by s Shand midget skate on Mondays...
Wonder if the team will be as good as last years. :PThe Gulls got the AAA bid and then (I heard) announced they weren't fielding a AAA team. In this case what does CAHA do? Does another club get it?
It was just announced today that they will have a AAA team. Bocharov will be their coach. 2005 AAA PW
Does anyone know who will be assisting Shand? Originally I heard Smerud but heard he backed out. Also anyone know who will assist Kohn? Lastly, are all Jr King tryouts in LA or do they do some out of Lakewood? Thanks!
sting
Does anyone know who will be assisting Shand? Originally I heard Smerud but heard he backed out. Also anyone know who will assist Kohn? Lastly, are all Jr King tryouts in LA or do they do some out of Lakewood? Thanks!
Thanks!His 4 on 4's also consist of Bantam kids so there is not 38 just for PW there.
Wow 38 kids trying to get on the AA roster? Sounds like a competitive tryout!
ValenciaOne more team in each division so they can get to 3 teams
ValenciaI don't see that Valencia is having a AA division.
Six teams at PW AAA Carmen Starr: Golden Bears of Burbank, GSE of Vacaville, Kohn's Ducks, Kings '05, Shand's '05 OC, and San Diego Saints. Should be a good competitive division and maybe provide a little insight into the coming season. Maybe even 6 of the 8 upper division of AA next season.
Looks like the Bears have put together a AA scrimmage for this Saturday 5/20 at 8:10am - 9:10am.
Email:coachgevorkyan@hotmail.com (coachgevorkyan@hotmail.com)
Mobile: 818-389-7432
Taking the temperature for a potential second AA team?
I believe that's the idea.Looks like the Bears have put together a AA scrimmage for this Saturday 5/20 at 8:10am - 9:10am.
Email:coachgevorkyan@hotmail.com (coachgevorkyan@hotmail.com)
Mobile: 818-389-7432
Taking the temperature for a potential second AA team?
How was the scrimmage today? Anybody know how many kids showed up? We are looking for a PWA team for our son. Anyone know how the PWA Bears team looks to be? Will it be mostly 06 or 05?There was some very good talent out there today for sure and many clubs were represented! About 30 kids total.
Any help would be appreciated.
Six teams at PW AAA Carmen Starr: Golden Bears of Burbank, GSE of Vacaville, Kohn's Ducks, Kings '05, Shand's '05 OC, and San Diego Saints. Should be a good competitive division and maybe provide a little insight into the coming season. Maybe even 6 of the 8 upper division of AA next season.
If Shand and Smerud plans to combine the Eagles and OC2 05 players from last season together they could very well be a top contender. After all Smerud had one of the best D records and the Eagles were one of the top offensive team. Mixing that chemistry could work to their advantage. After all they were the 1st and 2nd place teams last season. Beware though if they add players from some of the bottom end teams from last season they may not fair as well. GSE will be a top contender but I am a little bias since I have a nephew playing on that team. And the Kings 05 should be good. You may be right, these could be the top teams.
I am going on a long vacation, See you in the fall. Good luck to everyone at tryouts!
In my opinion the WHOLE PW div is going to be a joke. 07 BBs going PWA......BBs going to PW AA and 06s that were PWAs going AAA.
What a joke !!
You give a monkey a gun, he's going to shoot someone.
Looking at OC's Carmen Starr roster, I am a little worried. I guess this will be a small preview of what the season will look like for the new brackets for AA. OC must of had a lot of kids move up to Bantam. I don't see very many of their names on that roster.
In my opinion the WHOLE PW div is going to be a joke. 07 BBs going PWA......BBs going to PW AA and 06s that were PWAs going AAA.
What a joke !!
You give a monkey a gun, he's going to shoot someone.
In my opinion the WHOLE PW div is going to be a joke. 07 BBs going PWA......BBs going to PW AA and 06s that were PWAs going AAA.
What a joke !!
You give a monkey a gun, he's going to shoot someone.
You forgot one!!! How about SQA's now going to AAA??
That's not the context of what Trans was saying or what I was commenting on! Read back, you'll figure it out!In my opinion the WHOLE PW div is going to be a joke. 07 BBs going PWA......BBs going to PW AA and 06s that were PWAs going AAA.
What a joke !!
You give a monkey a gun, he's going to shoot someone.
You forgot one!!! How about SQA's now going to AAA??
What's odd about 06's playing AAA minor? It's a birth year team? Kids develop year to year, not terribly unusual for a few kids to jump (or drop) a level or two....
Looking at OC's Carmen Starr roster, I am a little worried. I guess this will be a small preview of what the season will look like for the new brackets for AA. OC must of had a lot of kids move up to Bantam. I don't see very many of their names on that roster.
Last year's OCHC PWAA team are all moving up to bantam, except two players, and they're both on Shand's Carmen Starr team. I wouldn't worry about Shand's team, they always compete.
I was referring to that I don't see very many names from OC Smeruds 1st place PW A team on the roster so most of them must of moved up to Bantam. I only recognize 1 name. Combing Shands Eagle team and Smeruds OC team would be a good mix. I believe that if they select players from teams from the bottom of PW A or AA not sure how well they will do next season. After tryouts and official rosters are made will be a better picture.
Good luck to all teams playing Memorial Day tournaments. I am voting for GSE!
In my opinion the WHOLE PW div is going to be a joke. 07 BBs going PWA......BBs going to PW AA and 06s that were PWAs going AAA.
What a joke !!
You give a monkey a gun, he's going to shoot someone.
You forgot one!!! How about SQA's now going to AAA??
Nope, that team wasn't heavy with 05's from last year, only 3 actually!In my opinion the WHOLE PW div is going to be a joke. 07 BBs going PWA......BBs going to PW AA and 06s that were PWAs going AAA.
What a joke !!
You give a monkey a gun, he's going to shoot someone.
You forgot one!!! How about SQA's now going to AAA??
Anyone watch the Run & Gun? I heard the 2 06 AAA peewee teams ran through everyone...including the Bears / tropics team that was heavy with AA 05's from last year. :o
"Only 3" on a 4 vs 4 small roster tournament... :'( lol >:(3 on a 9 man roster is hardly heavy... Sounds like someone is but hurt over some earlier comments! Haha!! It's ok..
"Only 3" on a 4 vs 4 small roster tournament... :'( lol >:(3 on a 9 man roster is hardly heavy... Sounds like someone is but hurt over some earlier comments! Haha!! It's ok..
Looking at OC's Carmen Starr roster, I am a little worried. I guess this will be a small preview of what the season will look like for the new brackets for AA. OC must of had a lot of kids move up to Bantam. I don't see very many of their names on that roster.
Last year's OCHC PWAA team are all moving up to bantam, except two players, and they're both on Shand's Carmen Starr team. I wouldn't worry about Shand's team, they always compete.
I’d like to see a survey of which coaches develop players vs coaches who mostly recruit?
Even at the A/B level I see coaches who bring kids in from other Counties/States or suck kids away from other teams promising the way to hockey glory, a D1 scholarship and the NHL. These coaches spend most of their time recruiting kids away from coaches who develop kids and it’s a shame because it mostly ends up being a 1 or 2 year experiment and then they’re on the way to the next best thing (club hoppers). Especially love the 5’5†parents with the super star Squirt/Peewee who think their kid will be the next Theo Fleury or Mats Zuccarello.
It’s a funny thing when you have coaches who will cut or throw a kid and good family away for a cancerous family with/for a slightly better player. Why not develop the kid who is loyal and working hard to get better? In most cases, the cancer parent(s) ruin the team chemistry and all goes to hell anyway but regardless, I love watching these super star parents jump from club to club to get on a winner. I especially love watching them pay tens of thousands a year to eventually see their kid quit hockey at 16 or 18. After all, it’s all about propping up your kid and letting them know that you’ll always bail them out and that life lessons only come from winning.
Good luck to all who are jumping clubs and teams in search for greener pastures!!! Ask any parent with aged out kids who don’t play hockey anymore what a waste it all was… Have fun and enjoy!
I’d like to see a survey of which coaches develop players vs coaches who mostly recruit?
Even at the A/B level I see coaches who bring kids in from other Counties/States or suck kids away from other teams promising the way to hockey glory, a D1 scholarship and the NHL. These coaches spend most of their time recruiting kids away from coaches who develop kids and it’s a shame because it mostly ends up being a 1 or 2 year experiment and then they’re on the way to the next best thing (club hoppers). Especially love the 5’5†parents with the super star Squirt/Peewee who think their kid will be the next Theo Fleury or Mats Zuccarello.
It’s a funny thing when you have coaches who will cut or throw a kid and good family away for a cancerous family with/for a slightly better player. Why not develop the kid who is loyal and working hard to get better? In most cases, the cancer parent(s) ruin the team chemistry and all goes to hell anyway but regardless, I love watching these super star parents jump from club to club to get on a winner. I especially love watching them pay tens of thousands a year to eventually see their kid quit hockey at 16 or 18. After all, it’s all about propping up your kid and letting them know that you’ll always bail them out and that life lessons only come from winning.
Good luck to all who are jumping clubs and teams in search for greener pastures!!! Ask any parent with aged out kids who don’t play hockey anymore what a waste it all was… Have fun and enjoy!
sounds like someone's kid lost his spot to a short kid with a long commute
I’d like to see a survey of which coaches develop players vs coaches who mostly recruit?
Even at the A/B level I see coaches who bring kids in from other Counties/States or suck kids away from other teams promising the way to hockey glory, a D1 scholarship and the NHL. These coaches spend most of their time recruiting kids away from coaches who develop kids and it’s a shame because it mostly ends up being a 1 or 2 year experiment and then they’re on the way to the next best thing (club hoppers). Especially love the 5’5†parents with the super star Squirt/Peewee who think their kid will be the next Theo Fleury or Mats Zuccarello.
It’s a funny thing when you have coaches who will cut or throw a kid and good family away for a cancerous family with/for a slightly better player. Why not develop the kid who is loyal and working hard to get better? In most cases, the cancer parent(s) ruin the team chemistry and all goes to hell anyway but regardless, I love watching these super star parents jump from club to club to get on a winner. I especially love watching them pay tens of thousands a year to eventually see their kid quit hockey at 16 or 18. After all, it’s all about propping up your kid and letting them know that you’ll always bail them out and that life lessons only come from winning.
Good luck to all who are jumping clubs and teams in search for greener pastures!!! Ask any parent with aged out kids who don’t play hockey anymore what a waste it all was… Have fun and enjoy!
In my opinion the WHOLE PW div is going to be a joke. 07 BBs going PWA......BBs going to PW AA and 06s that were PWAs going AAA.It has come to my attention that some comrades were a bit butt hurt about my comments. Just my opinion.
What a joke !!
You give a monkey a gun, he's going to shoot someone.
I’d like to see a survey of which coaches develop players vs coaches who mostly recruit?
Even at the A/B level I see coaches who bring kids in from other Counties/States or suck kids away from other teams promising the way to hockey glory, a D1 scholarship and the NHL. These coaches spend most of their time recruiting kids away from coaches who develop kids and it’s a shame because it mostly ends up being a 1 or 2 year experiment and then they’re on the way to the next best thing (club hoppers). Especially love the 5’5†parents with the super star Squirt/Peewee who think their kid will be the next Theo Fleury or Mats Zuccarello.
It’s a funny thing when you have coaches who will cut or throw a kid and good family away for a cancerous family with/for a slightly better player. Why not develop the kid who is loyal and working hard to get better? In most cases, the cancer parent(s) ruin the team chemistry and all goes to hell anyway but regardless, I love watching these super star parents jump from club to club to get on a winner. I especially love watching them pay tens of thousands a year to eventually see their kid quit hockey at 16 or 18. After all, it’s all about propping up your kid and letting them know that you’ll always bail them out and that life lessons only come from winning.
Good luck to all who are jumping clubs and teams in search for greener pastures!!! Ask any parent with aged out kids who don’t play hockey anymore what a waste it all was… Have fun and enjoy!
Good luck to all who are jumping clubs and teams in search for greener pastures!!! Ask any parent with aged out kids who don’t play hockey anymore what a waste it all was… Have fun and enjoy!
Not surprised by the PW AA Carmen Star Results. The most hyped up team lost in the end. I got a chance to see the GSE game against OC. OC does have a few small kids that just were not perfoming in the game I saw. Even though they beat GSE, I didn't see them that strong as all the hype. No sour apples here either because I don't think GSE showed up this weekend either. And yes I am bias since my Nephew is on GSE.
Once again, just my opinion. If OC picks up kids from teams that were not contenders in A last season they will struggle. Looking at the stats these kids may have performed in the saints game, but then again, I think the saints are a middle to bottom of the division team. Kids from Smerud's OC PW A team were definitely a difference maker for OC this weekend. I think coach has a big decision to make come try outs this coming weekend.
I’d like to see a survey of which coaches develop players vs coaches who mostly recruit?
Even at the A/B level I see coaches who bring kids in from other Counties/States or suck kids away from other teams promising the way to hockey glory, a D1 scholarship and the NHL. These coaches spend most of their time recruiting kids away from coaches who develop kids and it’s a shame because it mostly ends up being a 1 or 2 year experiment and then they’re on the way to the next best thing (club hoppers). Especially love the 5’5†parents with the super star Squirt/Peewee who think their kid will be the next Theo Fleury or Mats Zuccarello.
It’s a funny thing when you have coaches who will cut or throw a kid and good family away for a cancerous family with/for a slightly better player. Why not develop the kid who is loyal and working hard to get better? In most cases, the cancer parent(s) ruin the team chemistry and all goes to hell anyway but regardless, I love watching these super star parents jump from club to club to get on a winner. I especially love watching them pay tens of thousands a year to eventually see their kid quit hockey at 16 or 18. After all, it’s all about propping up your kid and letting them know that you’ll always bail them out and that life lessons only come from winning.
Good luck to all who are jumping clubs and teams in search for greener pastures!!! Ask any parent with aged out kids who don’t play hockey anymore what a waste it all was… Have fun and enjoy!
Or maybe it's not the club but the coach! We would have club hopped if the coach from OC last year was carrying a team, of course if he would have had my kid. We have heard such great things about that OC coach and my wife and I would listen to him when we saw their games and his direction was spot on. There are coaches who chew out kids and who ride their a*s so much kids lose interest. Point being, coach not the club. Many clubs have 1 option at the level of play.
Also, what's wrong with a coach trying to recruit talent? Isn't that how you win games? Or are you saying that 5'5 kid has no talent?
Not really sure OC was hyped up. Yes they could have gone 0-5. All the teams at the tourney were strong. For some reason this hyped team went 5-1. The score was 2-1 going into the 3rd..
You can't call a team that wins 5 of 6 games at the Carmen Starr tournament and wins 10 of the last 11 tournament game all hype. That team skates hard. Congrats to the Bears and OC.
On to tryouts.
Quote:
Easter tournament???
Easter Tournament when most teams don't have their entire rosters playing? Really? You are judging off that tournament?
Not so at all, just trying to add some substance to the board rather than the nonsense you post. I see so many parents burn bridge after bridge with coaches and clubs looking for greener pastures. Guess what? The grass is just a different shade of green (every club has problems/issues) and when you end up looking in the mirror wondering what to do next, you'll finally realize that it's a small portion of your kids life and he's still not going to the NHL.
Not so at all, just trying to add some substance to the board rather than the nonsense you post. I see so many parents burn bridge after bridge with coaches and clubs looking for greener pastures. Guess what? The grass is just a different shade of green (every club has problems/issues) and when you end up looking in the mirror wondering what to do next, you'll finally realize that it's a small portion of your kids life and he's still not going to the NHL.
Coach Smerud picked up a Bantam A team since alot of his team from last year moved up. He is co-coaching the Pee Wee A team with Coach Horn this yearI’d like to see a survey of which coaches develop players vs coaches who mostly recruit?
Even at the A/B level I see coaches who bring kids in from other Counties/States or suck kids away from other teams promising the way to hockey glory, a D1 scholarship and the NHL. These coaches spend most of their time recruiting kids away from coaches who develop kids and it’s a shame because it mostly ends up being a 1 or 2 year experiment and then they’re on the way to the next best thing (club hoppers). Especially love the 5’5†parents with the super star Squirt/Peewee who think their kid will be the next Theo Fleury or Mats Zuccarello.
It’s a funny thing when you have coaches who will cut or throw a kid and good family away for a cancerous family with/for a slightly better player. Why not develop the kid who is loyal and working hard to get better? In most cases, the cancer parent(s) ruin the team chemistry and all goes to hell anyway but regardless, I love watching these super star parents jump from club to club to get on a winner. I especially love watching them pay tens of thousands a year to eventually see their kid quit hockey at 16 or 18. After all, it’s all about propping up your kid and letting them know that you’ll always bail them out and that life lessons only come from winning.
Good luck to all who are jumping clubs and teams in search for greener pastures!!! Ask any parent with aged out kids who don’t play hockey anymore what a waste it all was… Have fun and enjoy!
Or maybe it's not the club but the coach! We would have club hopped if the coach from OC last year was carrying a team, of course if he would have had my kid. We have heard such great things about that OC coach and my wife and I would listen to him when we saw their games and his direction was spot on. There are coaches who chew out kids and who ride their a*s so much kids lose interest. Point being, coach not the club. Many clubs have 1 option at the level of play.
Also, what's wrong with a coach trying to recruit talent? Isn't that how you win games? Or are you saying that 5'5 kid has no talent?
I agree if OC Coach Smerud was listed as a coach for peewee team, I would of made the drive for my kid too. Not sure why he didn't with his past success record. Or maybe he moved on.
Not really sure OC was hyped up. Yes they could have gone 0-5. All the teams at the tourney were strong. For some reason this hyped team went 5-1. The score was 2-1 going into the 3rd..I don't understand the comment regarding the Carmen Starr team winning 10 out of 11 tournament games?
You can't call a team that wins 5 of 6 games at the Carmen Starr tournament and wins 10 of the last 11 tournament game all hype. That team skates hard. Congrats to the Bears and OC.
On to tryouts.Not surprised by the PW AA Carmen Star Results. The most hyped up team lost in the end. I got a chance to see the GSE game against OC. OC does have a few small kids that just were not perfoming in the game I saw. Even though they beat GSE, I didn't see them that strong as all the hype. No sour apples here either because I don't think GSE showed up this weekend either. And yes I am bias since my Nephew is on GSE.
Once again, just my opinion. If OC picks up kids from teams that were not contenders in A last season they will struggle. Looking at the stats these kids may have performed in the saints game, but then again, I think the saints are a middle to bottom of the division team. Kids from Smerud's OC PW A team were definitely a difference maker for OC this weekend. I think coach has a big decision to make come try outs this coming weekend.
Once again, just my opinion. If OC picks up kids from teams that were not contenders in A last season they will struggle.
Once again, just my opinion. If OC picks up kids from teams that were not contenders in A last season they will struggle.
You can walk into any rink and you will find good athletes and good hockey players. Maybe they were on a subpar team but I bet a few of those kids can play AA.
Don't look too hard. I believe that GSE team that came down is NOT a reflection of the PW AA GSE team. That team, that will be a major year team has a good amount of returning players. So don't get your hopes up, they will roll.
Once again, just my opinion. If OC picks up kids from teams that were not contenders in A last season they will struggle.
You can walk into any rink and you will find good athletes and good hockey players. Maybe they were on a subpar team but I bet a few of those kids can play AA.
The game I watched I just didn't see a complete team of caliber players. And yes they beat GSE and yes GSE definitely needs some work too. Maybe some surprises with show up to tryouts. I hope the coach didn't make any promises to anyone.
Don't look too hard. I believe that GSE team that came down is NOT a reflection of the PW AA GSE team. That team, that will be a major year team has a good amount of returning players. So don't get your hopes up, they will roll.
Once again, just my opinion. If OC picks up kids from teams that were not contenders in A last season they will struggle.
You can walk into any rink and you will find good athletes and good hockey players. Maybe they were on a subpar team but I bet a few of those kids can play AA.
The game I watched I just didn't see a complete team of caliber players. And yes they beat GSE and yes GSE definitely needs some work too. Maybe some surprises with show up to tryouts. I hope the coach didn't make any promises to anyone.
Just a note there are 2 GSE teams from Northern Cal and only the North played at Carmen Starr.
Just a note there are 2 GSE teams from Northern Cal and only the North played at Carmen Starr.
Indeed Norcal1, but where did the other team play, if anywhere, for Memorial Day?
FWIW, I thought the GSE team was stronger than their results in Carmen Starr. I only saw their first game but it was one of the most closely contested games the Bears faced other than their loss to OCHC.
Not surprised by the PW AA Carmen Star Results. The most hyped up team lost in the end. I got a chance to see the GSE game against OC. OC does have a few small kids that just were not perfoming in the game I saw. Even though they beat GSE, I didn't see them that strong as all the hype. No sour apples here either because I don't think GSE showed up this weekend either. And yes I am bias since my Nephew is on GSE.
Once again, just my opinion. If OC picks up kids from teams that were not contenders in A last season they will struggle. Looking at the stats these kids may have performed in the saints game, but then again, I think the saints are a middle to bottom of the division team. Kids from Smerud's OC PW A team were definitely a difference maker for OC this weekend. I think coach has a big decision to make come try outs this coming weekend.
Not surprised by the PW AA Carmen Star Results. The most hyped up team lost in the end. I got a chance to see the GSE game against OC. OC does have a few small kids that just were not perfoming in the game I saw. Even though they beat GSE, I didn't see them that strong as all the hype. No sour apples here either because I don't think GSE showed up this weekend either. And yes I am bias since my Nephew is on GSE.
Once again, just my opinion. If OC picks up kids from teams that were not contenders in A last season they will struggle. Looking at the stats these kids may have performed in the saints game, but then again, I think the saints are a middle to bottom of the division team. Kids from Smerud's OC PW A team were definitely a difference maker for OC this weekend. I think coach has a big decision to make come try outs this coming weekend.
Skates: I appreciated your statistical analysis last season but have to disagree with your assessment on this one. Shand's OC team for Carmen Starr had kids who played on at least four different clubs during the 2016-17 season. Without having a single team practice, a certain lack of cohesion reflected in their play. But I would say they certainly met the competition in terms of talent. As far as prior OC kids carrying the load - only one of the top five scorers for OC in Carmen Starr actually played for OC last season. Not to slam anyone - all the kids played great. Your post seems a little biased though.
If the tournament reflects the talent for 2017 - 2018 AA, it will be an exciting season.
Agree with M@sshole (https://www.calhockey.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5834) response about OC team at Carmen Starr. Their play was at times disjointed but they showed the ability to score in bunches. They have good team speed and some size. They also have at least four players with AA experience. They probably have more scoring power than was shown and the team will improve with organized practices as will the opposition. Coaching will separate the top PWAA teams and OC will be well coached.
Did all of OC defense move up? Last season you said if it wasn't for the D they wouldn't have been competitive.
Skates, agree with you about coaching and team chemistry. Compared to other recent teams we seen up close, OC will have good team chemistry this year. Dysfunctional locker rooms do adversely impact on the quality of team play. Some coaches don't want to know about it; Coach Shand is too well attuned to details to let it slide.
Skates, your evaluations for the Pee Wee A season last year were impressive and I would be happy to buy you a beer if I ever meet you. Regarding the blending of the Smerud and Shand teams, while making sense probably was never intended to happen. I don't think that Smerud had any real input into the forming Shand's team. The Shand team as it stood for Carmen Starr is really a re-branding of the Eagles Pee Wee A team from last year. 8 of the tournament players were Eagles while only 2 were OC2. The defense squad consists of 2 Eagles, 1 OC3 A, 1 Jr Duck 1 AA, and 2 OC2. The remaining 3 OC2 defense squad were not invited to play and have moved on.Did all of OC defense move up? Last season you said if it wasn't for the D they wouldn't have been competitive.
Okay don't quote me on this: I heard from a friend that OC2 had 6 D. 1 was an 04 and 5 were 05's. I just know by stats that OC 2 had a great D record. So where did all those 05's go I don't know but all of them were not on OC Carmen Starr roster. I imagine not all wanted to play with coach and are trying for other teams or opted out of AA for various reasons. That's what happens when teams are mixed year teams. But just imagine Eagles offense and OC2's defense could be a dangerous team. Both teams had a great season. Stats do show that.
I see 16 teams listed at AA on the SCAHA site. However, I am hearing the Mariners will not skate AA. It looks like around 20 AA teams for next season. Maybe CAHA will push two out. Does that mean two divisions with 9 teams each???
It's time for CAHA to explain to all us how exactly this works.
From what I've heard, these are the So Cal AA teams.Yes Ice Dogs will have 2 teams. My son is on one of the teams. Both will be somewhere in the middle.
Ducks - Kohn
Ducks - Caban 06/07
Bears - Gevorkyan
Reign -
Kings - Tatavosian 05
Kings - Turcotte/Stuart 07
OCHC - Bickley
OCHC - Shand
Gulls - Dufour
Gulls - Pruden
Saints - Robinson
Saints - Snyder
Flyers -
Anyone know if the Ice Dogs were able to fill 2 AA teams?
Which Gulls team was going to play AAA, but dropped down?
Of the OCHC teams, is one better than the other? How about the Saints?
| Club | Team | Coaches | Home Rink | Info |
| Bears | AA | Gevorkyan (h), Sokol (a) | Pickwick | Gevorkyan coached Peewee A last season. Mostly '05 |
| Jr Flyers | AA | Berge (h), Green (a) | Ice Station Valencia | 2nd year of tier teams under Pavel Sisak. Josh Berge, the WSHL Jr coach will be coaching AA |
| Saints | 1 | Robinson (h), Beaty (a) | Carlsbad | Robinson returning |
| Saints | 2 | Snyder (h), Cunningham (a) | Carlsbad | Robinson returning |
| OCHC | 1 | Bickley(h) Horn | Yorba Linda | Coached Peewee A 2016 |
| OCHC | 2 | Shand (h) Smerud (a) | Yorba Linda | |
| Jr Gulls | AA | White (h) | Iceplex Escondido | |
| Jr Kings | 1 | Tatavosian (h) Beebee, Daughaday (a) | El Segundo | Coached Wave 3 Bantams. 05/06 |
| Jr Kings | 2 | Stuart/Turcotte (h) Cornforth (a) | El Segundo | 2007 Team |
| Jr Ducks | 1 | Kohn (h) Viau (a) | TBA | Coached Peewee AA 2016 |
| Jr Ducks | 2 | Vasilevsky (h), Kabanets (a) | TBA | Coached '04 AAA |
| Jr Reign | AA | Esdale (h) | TBA | Formerly the Wildcats |
| Ice Dogs | 1 | Riley (h) | KHS | |
| Ice Dogs | 2 | White (h) | KHS | |
| Jr Sharks | AA | Dragotto(h) | Sharks Ice SJ | |
| GSE North | 1 | Alexius (h) | TBA | |
| GSE South | 2 | Rodriguez (h) | TBA | |
| Blackhawks | AA | Lino Persi(h) | Sharks Ice Fremont | Persi asst Bantam AA coach 2016 |
| Colts | AA | TBA (h) | Oak Park Ice |
I've kept this up to date on the first post of this thread, but here is just the team list:Funny how the Valencia coaches have the most "info" written about them! LOL! Sorry Man, had to call you on that one! HAHAHA!!
*Unofficial* List of Peewee AA Teams
Club Team Coaches Home Rink Info Bears AA Gevorkyan (h),
Sokol (a)Pickwick Gevorkyan coached Peewee A last season. Mostly '05 Jr Flyers AA Berge (h),
Green (a)Ice Station Valencia 2nd year of tier teams under Pavel Sisak. Josh Berge, the WSHL Jr coach will be coaching AA Saints 1 Robinson (h),
Beaty (a)Carlsbad Robinson returning Saints 2 Snyder (h),
Cunningham (a)Carlsbad Robinson returning OCHC 1 Bickley(h)
HornYorba Linda Coached Peewee A 2016 OCHC 2 Shand (h)
Smerud (a)Yorba Linda Jr Gulls AA White (h) Iceplex Escondido Jr Kings 1 Tatavosian (h)
Beebee, Daughaday (a)El Segundo Coached Wave 3 Bantams. 05/06 Jr Kings 2 Stuart/Turcotte (h)
Cornforth (a)El Segundo 2007 Team Jr Ducks 1 Kohn (h) Viau (a) TBA Coached Peewee AA 2016 Jr Ducks 2 Vasilevsky (h),
Kabanets (a)TBA Coached '04 AAA Jr Reign AA Esdale (h) TBA Formerly the Wildcats Ice Dogs 1 Riley (h) KHS Ice Dogs 2 White (h) KHS Jr Sharks AA Dragotto(h) Sharks Ice SJ GSE North 1 Alexius (h) TBA GSE South 2 Rodriguez (h) TBA Blackhawks AA Lino Persi(h) Sharks Ice Fremont Persi asst Bantam AA coach 2016 Colts AA TBA (h) Oak Park Ice
Just the fact man, just the facts ;)Yea, with a bunch of "facts" missing from other teams. LOL! Just joking with ya man! kinda ;) ;) ;)
Have to say, my prognostications about teams that that would not have AA turnout were correct. I called 3 out of 4.
Love the Riley team, but they simply are not at the same level as the Shand team, which has many top PWA players, size, speed, age, and grit, and several players with AA experience. Riley Dogs did not take a step forward at Squirt A, and having watched the Eagles many times last season, the Dogs just aren't at the same level (unless they added in 4 or 5 PWA/AA studs). Would have loved to seen Riley Dogs at Carmen Starr, and frankly, would love to be proven wrong on this one. If anything, Riley Dogs remind me of PWA Wave 1 last year. The only potential wrinkle I see for Shand is the rumor that he rostered a ton of kids, and finding the right roles and playing time might be a challenge. I think Skates' comment about team chemistry may turn out to be prophetic about The Shand team. Don't know anything about the other Ice Dogs team. What does the roster look like? How did they play over Memorial Day?
"Somewhere in the middle" of AA will be a very tough place to be, as it probably means top of Flight B (with little chance of the playoffs) or bottom of Flight A, getting your hat handed to you every fourth weekend. Neither spot is a particularly good place for development.
What? Rostered a ton of kids? I can hear the parents now of the kids sitting the bench. That's sad, so while your kid sits the bench on your AA team, there is another kid playing A and getting lots of ice time that will surpass your kid at Bantam. Typical story.
Hmmm I guess Shand didn't want to share with Bickley. Bickley sure could use some kids. They do coach for the same club right? Geez. What a waste of money for the fouthliners on PW AA teams. I wonder if parents even know there is tons of kids on their team. That would make a difference for me when picking a team.
I think both ice dogs teams will be in the middle boarderline of the top bracket.
Skates wrote in reference to Shand PWAA team: "What? Rostered a ton of kids? I can hear the parents now of the kids sitting the bench. That's sad, so while your kid sits the bench on your AA team, there is another kid playing A and getting lots of ice time that will surpass your kid at Bantam. Typical story.In reality, he did not keep his tournament roster together because he lost the only 2 OC2 kids that he had on the tournament roster. Those slots were filled along with the additional kids.
Hmmm I guess Shand didn't want to share with Bickley. Bickley sure could use some kids. They do coach for the same club right? Geez. What a waste of money for the fouthliners on PW AA teams. I wonder if parents even know there is tons of kids on their team. That would make a difference for me when picking a team."
Skates, after C.Starr tournament you were calling for this team to add some defense. In reality, he kept the tournament roster together and added several kids. Parents knew this as there was a parent's meeting after tryout 2. As a parent, I took it has an attempt to strengthen the roster. Shand rotates his lines quickly and effectively. If a kid works hard, they will play. These are kids with talent and if they don't work hard, it is unlikely they love the game enough to develop anyway. It is not like sitting on the end of a Ducks AAA bench.
Just the fact man, just the facts ;)Yea, with a bunch of "facts" missing from other teams. LOL! Just joking with ya man! kinda ;) ;) ;)
Have to say, my prognostications about teams that that would not have AA turnout were correct. I called 3 out of 4.
Trying to understand the significance of "coached PW A or AAA" last year. Are we grading the coaches? Several other coaches listed have coached successful AAA teams and yet only the Ducks are called out? Hmmmm
M@ss, Sophist and AVC, I was under the impression that Shand carried 18 kids (including 3 goalies) at Carmen Starr, which makes rolling lines and managing TOI pretty simple if a coach is so inclined. And a coach has every incentive before tryouts to give every player meaningful minutes in order to recruit and evaluate that player. I also heard that Shand had rostered 19 kids (including 2 goalies) for the upcoming season, which means that some kids will be going on the ice (at most) once every fourth shift and precludes the use of set lines (unless the last two become a 4th D pairing). On most AA teams, the bottom lines are not seeing time on special teams or much time in the third period in close games. Perhaps one of you can clarify the number of kids rostered?
I've kept this up to date on the first post of this thread, but here is just the team list:
*Unofficial* List of Peewee AA Teams
Club Team Coaches Home Rink Info Bears AA Gevorkyan (h),
Sokol (a)Pickwick Gevorkyan coached Peewee A last season. Mostly '05 Jr Flyers AA Berge (h),
Green (a)Ice Station Valencia 2nd year of tier teams under Pavel Sisak. Josh Berge, the WSHL Jr coach will be coaching AA Saints 1 Robinson (h),
Beaty (a)Carlsbad Robinson returning Saints 2 Snyder (h),
Cunningham (a)Carlsbad Robinson returning OCHC 1 Bickley(h)
HornYorba Linda Coached Peewee A 2016 OCHC 2 Shand (h)
Smerud (a)Yorba Linda Jr Gulls AA White (h) Iceplex Escondido Jr Kings 1 Tatavosian (h)
Beebee, Daughaday (a)El Segundo Coached Wave 3 Bantams. 05/06 Jr Kings 2 Stuart/Turcotte (h)
Cornforth (a)El Segundo 2007 Team Jr Ducks 1 Kohn (h) Viau (a) TBA Coached Peewee AA 2016 Jr Ducks 2 Vasilevsky (h),
Kabanets (a)TBA Coached '04 AAA Jr Reign AA Esdale (h) TBA Formerly the Wildcats Ice Dogs 1 Riley (h) KHS Ice Dogs 2 White (h) KHS Jr Sharks AA Dragotto(h) Sharks Ice SJ GSE North 1 Alexius (h) TBA GSE South 2 Rodriguez (h) TBA Blackhawks AA Lino Persi(h) Sharks Ice Fremont Persi asst Bantam AA coach 2016 Colts AA TBA (h) Oak Park Ice
Skates wrote in reference to Shand PWAA team: "What? Rostered a ton of kids? I can hear the parents now of the kids sitting the bench. That's sad, so while your kid sits the bench on your AA team, there is another kid playing A and getting lots of ice time that will surpass your kid at Bantam. Typical story.
Hmmm I guess Shand didn't want to share with Bickley. Bickley sure could use some kids. They do coach for the same club right? Geez. What a waste of money for the fouthliners on PW AA teams. I wonder if parents even know there is tons of kids on their team. That would make a difference for me when picking a team."
Skates, after C.Starr tournament you were calling for this team to add some defense. In reality, he kept the tournament roster together and added several kids. Parents knew this as there was a parent's meeting after tryout 2. As a parent, I took it has an attempt to strengthen the roster. Shand rotates his lines quickly and effectively. If a kid works hard, they will play. These are kids with talent and if they don't work hard, it is unlikely they love the game enough to develop anyway. It is not like sitting on the end of a Ducks AAA bench.
| Club | Team | Coaches | Home Rink | Info |
| Bears | AA | Gevorkyan (h), Sokol (a) | Pickwick | Gevorkyan coached Peewee A last season. Mostly '05 |
| Jr Flyers | AA | Berge (h) | Ice Station | Josh Berge is the WSHL Jr team coach. '05' |
| Saints | 1 | Robinson (h), Beaty (a) | Carlsbad | Robinson returning |
| Saints | 2 | Snyder (h), Cunningham (a) | Carlsbad | |
| OCHC | 1 | Horn | Yorba Linda | Coached Peewee A 2016 |
| OCHC | 2 | Shand (h) Smerud (a) | Yorba Linda | |
| Jr Gulls | 1 | Dufour (h) | Iceplex Escondido | 12U Minor AAA |
| Jr Gulls | 2 | Pruden (h) | Iceplex Escondido | |
| Jr Kings | 1 | Tatavosian (h) Beebee, Daughaday (a) | El Segundo | Coached Wave 3 Bantams. 05/06 |
| Jr Kings | 2 | Stuart/Turcotte (h) Cornforth (a) | El Segundo | 2007 Team |
| Jr Ducks | 1 | Kohn (h) Viau (a) | TBA | Coached Peewee AA 2016 |
| Jr Ducks | 2 | Vasilevsky (h), Kabanets (a) | TBA | Coached '04 AAA |
| Jr Reign | AA | Esdale (h) | Paramount | Formerly the Wildcats |
| Ice Dogs | 1 | Riley (h) | KHS | |
| Ice Dogs | 2 | White (h) | KHS | |
| Jr Sharks | AA | Dragotto(h) | Sharks Ice SJ | |
| GSE North | 1 | Alexius (h) | TBA | |
| GSE South | 2 | Rodriguez (h) | TBA | |
| Blackhawks | AA | Lino Persi(h) | Sharks Ice Fremont | Persi asst Bantam AA coach 2016 |
| Colts | AA | TBA (h) | Oak Park Ice |
Are the Jr Gulls fielding a PW AAA team in addition to the two AA teams?No they are not
List as I have it now:
*Unofficial* List of Peewee AA Teams
Club Team Coaches Home Rink Info Bears AA Gevorkyan (h),
Sokol (a)Pickwick Gevorkyan coached Peewee A last season. Mostly '05 Jr Flyers AA Berge (h) Ice Station Josh Berge is the WSHL Jr team coach. '05' Saints 1 Robinson (h),
Beaty (a)Carlsbad Robinson returning Saints 2 Snyder (h),
Cunningham (a)Carlsbad OCHC 1 Horn Yorba Linda Coached Peewee A 2016 OCHC 2 Shand (h)
Smerud (a)Yorba Linda Jr Gulls 1 Dufour (h) Iceplex Escondido 12U Minor AAA Jr Gulls 2 Pruden (h) Iceplex Escondido Jr Kings 1 Tatavosian (h)
Beebee, Daughaday (a)El Segundo Coached Wave 3 Bantams. 05/06 Jr Kings 2 Stuart/Turcotte (h)
Cornforth (a)El Segundo 2007 Team Jr Ducks 1 Kohn (h) Viau (a) TBA Coached Peewee AA 2016 Jr Ducks 2 Vasilevsky (h),
Kabanets (a)TBA Coached '04 AAA Jr Reign AA Esdale (h) Paramount Formerly the Wildcats Ice Dogs 1 Riley (h) KHS Ice Dogs 2 White (h) KHS Jr Sharks AA Dragotto(h) Sharks Ice SJ GSE North 1 Alexius (h) TBA GSE South 2 Rodriguez (h) TBA Blackhawks AA Lino Persi(h) Sharks Ice Fremont Persi asst Bantam AA coach 2016 Colts AA TBA (h) Oak Park Ice
Flyers is primarily an 05 team, afaik. There is an '06 I know of, and I think one goalie might be an '06.
That's a lot of teams . is there really all this AA talent out there? Or lets just play AA ?
All the teams in bottom bracket of AA this season are parents and teams that are "Let's play AA".
Like the Ice Dogs?
All the teams in bottom bracket of AA this season are parents and teams that are "Let's play AA".
Like the Ice Dogs?
Shots Fired! ;D
Yes Like the Ice Dogs. My son chose to play just because he wanted to play with his friends.
Just keep chasing those AAAAAA. So you can keep up with the Jones.. Same as it was years ago. Time marches on but the story line stays the same..You know some of them ?? :P :P
Sure did know some of them. 8)
RC, tell us how it all ends.
Sure did know some of them. 8)
I know a whole gaggle of them and they find comfort in the many D1 scholarship offers that are coming.
Parent 1: Dude, this season is getting really expensive
Parent 2: Yeah, but at least they can get a college scholarship out if it.
Parent 1: True, if they don't make it to the WHL or the NHL.
Meanwhile the hotdogs need turners in Lakewood and the pro shop at Anaheim has a future sharpener apprentice program.
Sure did know some of them. 8)
I know a whole gaggle of them and they find comfort in the many D1 scholarship offers that are coming.
Parent 1: Dude, this season is getting really expensive
Parent 2: Yeah, but at least they can get a college scholarship out if it.
Parent 1: True, if they don't make it to the WHL or the NHL.
Meanwhile the hotdogs need turners in Lakewood and the pro shop at Anaheim has a future sharpener apprentice program.
Whenever I see someone go off on this topic this video always comes to mind - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjy_7haflaM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjy_7haflaM)
Sure did know some of them. 8)
I know a whole gaggle of them and they find comfort in the many D1 scholarship offers that are coming.
Parent 1: Dude, this season is getting really expensive
Parent 2: Yeah, but at least they can get a college scholarship out if it.
Parent 1: True, if they don't make it to the WHL or the NHL.
Meanwhile the hotdogs need turners in Lakewood and the pro shop at Anaheim has a future sharpener apprentice program.
Whenever I see someone go off on this topic this video always comes to mind - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjy_7haflaM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjy_7haflaM)
Whenever parents are told the reality and the statistical odds of their California kid getting a full ride D1 scholarship via ice hockey they prefer to ignore reality, get mad or post videos about how the messenger is 'Hating'.
Sure did know some of them. 8)
I know a whole gaggle of them and they find comfort in the many D1 scholarship offers that are coming.
Parent 1: Dude, this season is getting really expensive
Parent 2: Yeah, but at least they can get a college scholarship out if it.
Parent 1: True, if they don't make it to the WHL or the NHL.
Meanwhile the hotdogs need turners in Lakewood and the pro shop at Anaheim has a future sharpener apprentice program.
Whenever I see someone go off on this topic this video always comes to mind - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjy_7haflaM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjy_7haflaM)
Whenever parents are told the reality and the statistical odds of their California kid getting a full ride D1 scholarship via ice hockey they prefer to ignore reality, get mad or post videos about how the messenger is 'Hating'.
The upcoming season will be our 6th in SCAHA and we have been around the "best" players and families for most of them...Talking BRICK players, AA or even AAA and in those 6 years I have never heard one parent, even parents that annoy the f out of me, say anything close to what you seem to say is a common discussion. Some parents hope for it? Sure, why not...but who doesnt hope their kids excel at a sport.
During these years I have heard plenty of people rip into BRICK, AA or even AAA players and close to 99% of the time is by parents of kids who didnt make those teams....so, again, let me leave you with a video because it is certain you are of the latter group: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-sYTAHtzXM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-sYTAHtzXM)
Sure did know some of them. 8)
I know a whole gaggle of them and they find comfort in the many D1 scholarship offers that are coming.
Parent 1: Dude, this season is getting really expensive
Parent 2: Yeah, but at least they can get a college scholarship out if it.
Parent 1: True, if they don't make it to the WHL or the NHL.
Meanwhile the hotdogs need turners in Lakewood and the pro shop at Anaheim has a future sharpener apprentice program.
Whenever I see someone go off on this topic this video always comes to mind - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjy_7haflaM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjy_7haflaM)
Whenever parents are told the reality and the statistical odds of their California kid getting a full ride D1 scholarship via ice hockey they prefer to ignore reality, get mad or post videos about how the messenger is 'Hating'.
The upcoming season will be our 6th in SCAHA and we have been around the "best" players and families for most of them...Talking BRICK players, AA or even AAA and in those 6 years I have never heard one parent, even parents that annoy the f out of me, say anything close to what you seem to say is a common discussion. Some parents hope for it? Sure, why not...but who doesnt hope their kids excel at a sport.
During these years I have heard plenty of people rip into BRICK, AA or even AAA players and close to 99% of the time is by parents of kids who didnt make those teams....so, again, let me leave you with a video because it is certain you are of the latter group: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-sYTAHtzXM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-sYTAHtzXM)
You have been around Tier hockey for that long and never heard one parent talk about their kid getting or planning to get a scholarship? Then you have never actually been around tier hockey or you are straight up lying.
Let's talk numbers:
2016-2017 year
1645 men rostered on NCAA Div 1 teams
1118 US men rostered on NCAA Div 1 teams
38 US men from CA rostered on NCAA Div 1 teams
7 US men from CA rostered o NCAA Div 1 teams that played in CA through 18AAA.
The other 31 men from California currently rostered on D1 teams left California to play
at a prep school or a high level JR. program by the time they were 15.
That would put the % of California players rostered on a D1 team in total at about 3.4% and the % of California players
who stayed to play in California thru 18 at about .75%.
This spans a 4 year recruiting block and includes payers from freshmen to seniors.
If you factor in percentages taking height into consideration the numbers change dramatically and the % nosedives for sub 6' players.
There is no hate involved bro, its a matter of indisputable fact and I understand reading facts about the future possibilities in the sport
make people upset and squeamish, as there is a lot of time and money on the line.
That does not take away from the hard work, fun, discipline and fortitude that playing hockey can offer kids in return.
You have been around Tier hockey for that long and never heard one parent talk about their kid getting or planning to get a scholarship? Then you have never actually been around tier hockey or you are straight up lying.
Let's talk numbers:
2016-2017 year
1645 men rostered on NCAA Div 1 teams
1118 US men rostered on NCAA Div 1 teams
38 US men from CA rostered on NCAA Div 1 teams
7 US men from CA rostered o NCAA Div 1 teams that played in CA through 18AAA.
The other 31 men from California currently rostered on D1 teams left California to play
at a prep school or a high level JR. program by the time they were 15.
That would put the % of California players rostered on a D1 team in total at about 3.4% and the % of California players
who stayed to play in California thru 18 at about .75%.
This spans a 4 year recruiting block and includes payers from freshmen to seniors.
If you factor in percentages taking height into consideration the numbers change dramatically and the % nosedives for sub 6' players.
There is no hate involved bro, its a matter of indisputable fact and I understand reading facts about the future possibilities in the sport
make people upset and squeamish, as there is a lot of time and money on the line.
That does not take away from the hard work, fun, discipline and fortitude that playing hockey can offer kids in return.
Sure did know some of them. 8)
I know a whole gaggle of them and they find comfort in the many D1 scholarship offers that are coming.
Parent 1: Dude, this season is getting really expensive
Parent 2: Yeah, but at least they can get a college scholarship out if it.
Parent 1: True, if they don't make it to the WHL or the NHL.
Meanwhile the hotdogs need turners in Lakewood and the pro shop at Anaheim has a future sharpener apprentice program.
Whenever I see someone go off on this topic this video always comes to mind - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjy_7haflaM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjy_7haflaM)
Whenever parents are told the reality and the statistical odds of their California kid getting a full ride D1 scholarship via ice hockey they prefer to ignore reality, get mad or post videos about how the messenger is 'Hating'.
The upcoming season will be our 6th in SCAHA and we have been around the "best" players and families for most of them...Talking BRICK players, AA or even AAA and in those 6 years I have never heard one parent, even parents that annoy the f out of me, say anything close to what you seem to say is a common discussion. Some parents hope for it? Sure, why not...but who doesnt hope their kids excel at a sport.
During these years I have heard plenty of people rip into BRICK, AA or even AAA players and close to 99% of the time is by parents of kids who didnt make those teams....so, again, let me leave you with a video because it is certain you are of the latter group: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-sYTAHtzXM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-sYTAHtzXM)
You have been around Tier hockey for that long and never heard one parent talk about their kid getting or planning to get a scholarship? Then you have never actually been around tier hockey or you are straight up lying.
Let's talk numbers:
2016-2017 year
1645 men rostered on NCAA Div 1 teams
1118 US men rostered on NCAA Div 1 teams
38 US men from CA rostered on NCAA Div 1 teams
7 US men from CA rostered o NCAA Div 1 teams that played in CA through 18AAA.
The other 31 men from California currently rostered on D1 teams left California to play
at a prep school or a high level JR. program by the time they were 15.
That would put the % of California players rostered on a D1 team in total at about 3.4% and the % of California players
who stayed to play in California thru 18 at about .75%.
This spans a 4 year recruiting block and includes payers from freshmen to seniors.
If you factor in percentages taking height into consideration the numbers change dramatically and the % nosedives for sub 6' players.
There is no hate involved bro, its a matter of indisputable fact and I understand reading facts about the future possibilities in the sport
make people upset and squeamish, as there is a lot of time and money on the line.
That does not take away from the hard work, fun, discipline and fortitude that playing hockey can offer kids in return.
Post stats to support your hating and deflect from the fact that I am right / posting awesome videos...well played.
More suggested viewing for Grillcracker and Reality Check.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGZkCPo7tC0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGZkCPo7tC0)
Long car rides, hell yes, when it's over I'll miss that time with my son the most.
Screw that!! The Straw Man argument is the foundation that CalHockey is built on. Stop the Straw Man argument and you just killed the chat room.
More suggested viewing for Grillcracker and Reality Check.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGZkCPo7tC0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGZkCPo7tC0)
So any info on the AA teams? Are the Mariners and Flyers returning AA teams? BB teams? What about Saints 2 and Gulls 2?
California Selects came in second in The Shiw tournament!! They came in first against all the USA teams!!that was a great showing!! Congrats to those kids! That team and those kids will be AAA minor and not AA.
Did they play anybody decent?
Strange things happen in short run time games the very first weekend of the season. I predict at least one team will be incorrectly placed and all of this will be much harder to assess than this committee could have imagined.
So does anyone want to have fun predicting the top 4 teams for the season? Who will make it pass Labor Day?
My predictions for the top 4 So Cal teams based off of team declarations is (no particular order):
1. Bears
2. Ducks Kohn
3. Kings
4. Gulls
So does anyone want to have fun predicting the top 4 teams for the season? Who will make it pass Labor Day?
My predictions for the top 4 So Cal teams based off of team declarations is (no particular order):
1. Bears
2. Ducks Kohn
3. Kings
4. Gulls
Fill us in on what you mean by "team declarations"?
Gulls certainly should be a concern for everyone given that they played AAA minor last season, yes?
Bears obviously won Carmen Starr. I don't see how one or the other or even both OCHC teams shouldn't be considered front runner given their performance last year in Peewee A and at Carmen Starr. Kings and Ducks both played well in Carmen Starr, but it is hard to know what the final teams ended up being, as there were all sorts of kids scattered about the rosters.
A big remaining question is what happens after SJ. With 18 team declarations, will CAHA have 10 in Flight 1, 8 in Flight 2? What will happen when teams in Flight 2 drop?
With regard to Flight 2 teams dropping, I doubt that CAHA or SCAHA will allow it. Wasn't SDIA denied their move to PWA last season? If a team wants to drop, it better do so before Labor Day.
Not sure if true, but heard the main shooter/best player on the Bears isn't returning???
Not sure if true, but heard the main shooter/best player on the Bears isn't returning???
Yeah, not sure who told you that. ::)
Sorry but rumors are just that! ;)Not sure if true, but heard the main shooter/best player on the Bears isn't returning???
Yeah, not sure who told you that. ::)
It was told by his mother to one of our close friends who happened to mention it while discussing tryouts. Again, not sure if it was true and they did in fact stay for tryouts but from the conversation, they were pretty sure they weren't staying.
Okay so the games in San Jose for Labor Day are only 2 periods each? Wow this gets better and better, not!! Come on most of the action in games comes in the third periods. We know that!!
Who do you have for top 8-9 Top Flight?Okay so the games in San Jose for Labor Day are only 2 periods each? Wow this gets better and better, not!! Come on most of the action in games comes in the third periods. We know that!!
You're kidding yourself if you think the SJ game results will change where teams are placed.
I am borrowing this from someone else ... PistonKev possibly (gotta credit the genius of it)
Flight Predictions:
SHARKS
GSE1
GSE2
KINGS1
KINGS2
DUCKS1
DUCKS2
GULLS
some other team maybe
;)
Do both Kings and Ducks have an 06 or 07 team? How did that work out last year with the Kings 06 team?
I am borrowing this from someone else ... PistonKev possibly (gotta credit the genius of it)
Flight Predictions:
SHARKS
GSE1
GSE2
KINGS1
KINGS2
DUCKS1
DUCKS2
GULLS
some other team maybe
;)
No Bears in top flight??? If the Peewee A squad from last year stayed together and registered as an AA team, have to believe they will be in the top flight??? They were a strong team last season and if what was said is true, and they didn't lose their point scorer, why wouldn't they be in the top?I think people are just trying to be sarcastic about the Flight picking process and potential politics involved! That's not their real list.
Okay can someone help me understand if I just read the July SCAHA minutes correctly regarding the Labor Day Jamboree? It says that coaches that are the evaluators and already have teams up there are not compensated? So they are kidding right? The Evaluators are the coaches? The same people who put these not so AA teams together to coat their pocket books with the crazy need the extra letter parents? This is becoming more and more of a joke.
Okay can someone help me understand if I just read the July SCAHA minutes correctly regarding the Labor Day Jamboree? It says that coaches that are the evaluators and already have teams up there are not compensated? So they are kidding right? The Evaluators are the coaches? The same people who put these not so AA teams together to coat their pocket books with the crazy need the extra letter parents? This is becoming more and more of a joke.hopefully they are not evaluating the same division as the team they coach
Okay can someone help me understand if I just read the July SCAHA minutes correctly regarding the Labor Day Jamboree? It says that coaches that are the evaluators and already have teams up there are not compensated? So they are kidding right? The Evaluators are the coaches? The same people who put these not so AA teams together to coat their pocket books with the crazy need the extra letter parents? This is becoming more and more of a joke.hopefully they are not evaluating the same division as the team they coach
I think if they (CAHA) would have gotten rid of the two-flight system and just stuck to evaluation/relegation, they would've probably been alright. Upper and lower flights is just a bad idea and I can't think of any other sport that does this. As far as who the evaluators are, who better than the coaches? CAHA? The parents???
I think if they (CAHA) would have gotten rid of the two-flight system and just stuck to evaluation/relegation, they would've probably been alright. Upper and lower flights is just a bad idea and I can't think of any other sport that does this. As far as who the evaluators are, who better than the coaches? CAHA? The parents???How about bringing in experienced coaches from outside of California. Thinking maybe College, Hockey minors, or experienced AAA level from Eastern or Canadian clubs. People are already throwing lots of money into this whole process so why not a few more bucks and pay these folks to evaluate.
Speaking of which, has anybody received a bill on how much these shenanigans are gonna cost?
I think if they (CAHA) would have gotten rid of the two-flight system and just stuck to evaluation/relegation, they would've probably been alright. Upper and lower flights is just a bad idea and I can't think of any other sport that does this. As far as who the evaluators are, who better than the coaches? CAHA? The parents???I agree. Get rid of the 2 bracket process. You are either an AA team or an A team. Evaluate and drop teams that are not AA. CAHA just made a new level AA- or A+ or A-. Not sure where the team would fit in at. Do this for all the A levels too because I am sure there are some teams that are not even A level. But don't do it in one Labor Day weekend mini tournament. Base it off the scores during preseason games or a CAHA weekend. Come on this is not rocket science!
I think if they (CAHA) would have gotten rid of the two-flight system and just stuck to evaluation/relegation, they would've probably been alright. Upper and lower flights is just a bad idea and I can't think of any other sport that does this. As far as who the evaluators are, who better than the coaches? CAHA? The parents???I agree. Get rid of the 2 bracket process. You are either an AA team or an A team. Evaluate and drop teams that are not AA. CAHA just made a new level AA- or A+ or A-. Not sure where the team would fit in at. Do this for all the A levels too because I am sure there are some teams that are not even A level. But don't do it in one Labor Day weekend mini tournament. Base it off the scores during preseason games or a CAHA weekend. Come on this is not rocket science!
Let's call the 2nd Bracket, "The Desperate Parent Bracket". Your kids team isn't really a AA Team but we will let you keep that extra A for status! At least we will keep your money coming in that you wanted to spend. Time to pay for those extra lessons so your team can be 1st place in the 2nd bracket in hopes to make that one play off spot. Just think the teams in the 2nd bracket, the coaches are going to make a fortune.
I am also concerned about the evaluators. Maybe I am being a simpleton here, but perhaps the scoreboard should be the evaluator. Would it be a reach to suggest the teams that actually win games are better than those that lose games? This isn't figure skating. We actually have points in our sport. My guess is the evaluators will be there to make sure no team has an opportunity to keep an NHL-affiliated team out of Flight 1.
In my opinion, we will know more once the schedule comes out for San Jose. We will see how teams are "stacked" or not. Obviously, if we go off last year's teams and standings, if you have a top 3 team from last year playing bottom ranked teams, likely that would favor the playing field as many have suggested is already picked to be in top flight just by the club name.
Has anyone gotten an official number on how many teams can make flight 1? If it's capped at a certain number than it's a flawed execution. Some team may get screwed just based on numbers and not performance. We all know who will get in if that's the case. If it's not capped then, honestly, this is what we have been waiting for. A series of checks and balances to drop teams that don't belong
A few club presidents probably argued that, dropping a team to a lower division would void the LOI and they did not want to do that. They did not want to run the risk that kids would leave if the team dropped.
In response, CAHA came up with this "unconventional" flight-within-a-tier scheme to address the fears of the club presidents. Their reasoning was that being placed in the 2nd tier of AA does not really constitute a drop in divisions so the LOIs remain valid. Nobody gets a release.
I would also suspect that there are clubs out there with AAA teams, or clubs that are trying to get AAA teams, that have been told by CAHA that they must have a certain number of AA teams before they can have a AAA program. This, in my limited view, is yet another reason why the clubs don't want to drop an AA team.
I am also concerned about the evaluators. Maybe I am being a simpleton here, but perhaps the scoreboard should be the evaluator. Would it be a reach to suggest the teams that actually win games are better than those that lose games? This isn't figure skating. We actually have points in our sport. My guess is the evaluators will be there to make sure no team has an opportunity to keep an NHL-affiliated team out of Flight 1.
Bottom line, playing is A is fine if that's where the team needs to be. CAHA demands clubs have a certain number of AA teams to keep or be granted an AAA team. Clubs would probably consider dropping the team but can't because it could jeopardize AAA status as well as void the LOI of all the players.
If CAHA had the will, and the strength to stand up for what is right, they would drop these silly rules and simply place teams where they rightly belong. Without the AAA implications and the LOI issue, we'd have a much better way of being honest about a team's real ability.
Just my two cents.
I agree with most of your post. Get rid of the crazy rules. But we also need to get rid of the crazy parents that drink the kool aid and allow all this to happen. The more the parents are willing to pay for the extra A the more the clubs will keep taking their money. Take OC for example: We all know one of the PW AA teams is definitely not a AA team, but the coach desperately found enough parents willing to pay for the extra A so why not? More money in the coaches pocket and more money in the clubs bank. Do you think they care if the team is in the 2nd bracket? Nah! Doesn't change the amount of the season. I think if you land in the 2nd bracket the club should have to give you a discount. After all your season just turned into an exhibition division.
Guys, I don't have anything against OC itself. They are just one of the teams that are easy to pick out that does not belong in AA.
It is what it is regarding how the upper and lower grouping is going to be determined. What if they would have done something like this for Pee Wee AA?
There are 10 clubs declaring AA teams of which 6 clubs declared 2 teams. For those 6 clubs, they play a best 2 out of 3 between their two teams. The winner is in the top group and the loser goes to the lower group.
There are two scenarios for those clubs with only 1 team. Scenario 1 is to automatically put them into the top group. This would ensure each club was represented in the upper group of 10 teams while the lower has 6 teams. Scenario 2 is have them play a mini-tournament with the two lowest scoring teams assigned to the lower group. This would establish the upper and lower both at 8 teams.
Comments?
It is what it is regarding how the upper and lower grouping is going to be determined. What if they would have done something like this for Pee Wee AA?
There are 10 clubs declaring AA teams of which 6 clubs declared 2 teams. For those 6 clubs, they play a best 2 out of 3 between their two teams. The winner is in the top group and the loser goes to the lower group.
There are two scenarios for those clubs with only 1 team. Scenario 1 is to automatically put them into the top group. This would ensure each club was represented in the upper group of 10 teams while the lower has 6 teams. Scenario 2 is have them play a mini-tournament with the two lowest scoring teams assigned to the lower group. This would establish the upper and lower both at 8 teams.
The Pedigrees (JKs) did not win Sq A that year. It was won by the SS (Super Sandys) (JDs) after a scare in the semis. It will be interesting next year to see the SS, even though i believe many of the original SSs are gone, in Bantams. Most kids that are dominant in Sqs end up being normal players. It's safe to say that at least 60% of the lil Gretzkys on the 06 and 07 (LOL) Tier teams will be cast aside in a few years. Many parents will be doing their best Al Bundy impersonation for their 10 year olds.......then it's OFF TO SHOE COLLEGE !!It is what it is regarding how the upper and lower grouping is going to be determined. What if they would have done something like this for Pee Wee AA?
There are 10 clubs declaring AA teams of which 6 clubs declared 2 teams. For those 6 clubs, they play a best 2 out of 3 between their two teams. The winner is in the top group and the loser goes to the lower group.
There are two scenarios for those clubs with only 1 team. Scenario 1 is to automatically put them into the top group. This would ensure each club was represented in the upper group of 10 teams while the lower has 6 teams. Scenario 2 is have them play a mini-tournament with the two lowest scoring teams assigned to the lower group. This would establish the upper and lower both at 8 teams.
The big clubs would never go along with this, because traditionally, they have at least one team that is playing up with the assumption it will go AAA the year following when they are minor.
Sometimes those teams are competitive, but often they are not. The club looks at it as seasoning, and can justify a losing season by playing in age group tournaments where they often fare well enough to keep everyone happy. They justify this practice with the argument that they would beat all the other Squirt teams, and so it doesn't really matter if they lose to the older kids. So long as SCAHA & CAHA allow them to do this, you can't really blame them for taking advantage of what the system allows.
There are a couple of those teams that will be playing in the Peewee AA division this year, I believe, just as there was at least one last year. That team had a pedigree having won Scaha Squirt A when they were a minor year team, but even they had some 04/05 mix-ins at Peewee AA from my recollection.
I'm not sure that there's an '07 team that can make the same claim, but again, until the games start getting played, I hesitate to make any predictions. We will all see soon enough. One does have to wonder how a season playing in the 2nd Tier might effect the conventional wisdom of this tradition of playing up in preparation for AAA.
That might seem like a tacit endorsement of this new system, but I want to be clear that I think it's terrible, and I'm disappointed that clubs didn't stand up to the board and vote against it.
So do ejections/match penalties carry over from exhibitions to the Jamboree?I believe they do.
Btw, it is unclear whether there will be any score reporting made over the CAHA website or on site for Jamboree games. Pretty much the only way we will find out these scores is if people take it upon themselves to post them over this board...
Scores appear to update here:
How did you do This? can you post the link for 14u and 16u as well?? thank you!
https://stats.caha.timetoscore.com/display-schedule.php?league=16&level=6&conf=0&season=20 (https://stats.caha.timetoscore.com/display-schedule.php?league=16&level=6&conf=0&season=20)
Hey Skates, looks like OC wasn't that bad after all ???
Ok Skates, now what's the excuse? OCHC-1 Shand beat Jr Ducks-1 Kohn (with the player you said he should've taken but didn't want the problem child). Now what? 🤣
Okay, most of us flew or drove 800 miles.
It was a great but expensive hockey re-union of sorts. Our family had fun reconnecting with many old friends at different age groups. I only spoke to one person in favor of this whole thing. I think a few teams only played other teams from So Cal. Before we take a long view of the CAHA board and accountability that should be taken for this hockey experience (and I'd hope people and board members of power reflect and act accordingly), let's look at the results. 14 teams proved they belong at AA, 4 did not. Now what? Do we break this up 7 & 7? Do all 14 get in one division?
Vacaville is in 5 weeks, what happens next?
Skates, your the stat man, get to work.
(https://i.imgur.com/4LvYsZG.jpg)yep you definitely can't divide the tiers by looking at these stats. Saints 1 should be in bottom tier based on who they played. For a quick review I think it should be in this order:
yep you definitely can't divide the tiers by looking at these stats. Saints 1 should be in bottom tier based on who they played. For a quick review I think it should be in this order:
1. GSE1
2. Bears
3. Ducks 1
4. Gulls 1
5. Blackhawks
6. GSE2
7. Kings 1
8. Ducks 2
9. OCHC 1
10. Saints 1
11. OCHC 2
12. Flyers
13. Gulls 2
14. Kings 2
15. Ice dogs
16. Sharks
17. Reign
18. Saints 2
Wish I had time to run numbers and was able to see shots on goal for a better picture.
1. GSE1
2. Bears
3. Ducks 1
4. Gulls 1
5. Blackhawks
6. GSE2
7. Kings 1
8. Ducks 2
9. OCHC 1
10. Saints 1
11. OCHC 2
12. Flyers
13. Gulls 2
14. Kings 2
15. Ice dogs
16. Sharks
17. Reign
18. Saints 2
They mentioned there might be additional scrimmages to prove teams belong or for more clarification. Will the bubble teams have scrimmages or is this just for the teams that could get dropped?
Do we all go to Vacaville and then certain teams play upper and lower tier games? How does it work?
If divisions are split 8 and 8 (and an argument can be made) do all teams play each other twice?
Up to 12-13 teams could claim they did enough this weekend given this early point in the season.
All So Cal teams upper and lower will play each other as part of the SCAHA scrimmage season between CAHA weekends. I assume AAA minor teams are invited to be a part of the SCAHA scrimmage season?
Ok Skates, now what's the excuse? OCHC-1 Shand beat Jr Ducks-1 Kohn (with the player you said he should've taken but didn't want the problem child). Now what? 🤣
Oh good for them. It will make the season more entertaining to see the teams compete. And how low of you to single out a kid as a problem child. From my understanding they didn't stand a chance of getting this kid on their team. But they sure did try. He chose not too. I think your just a hater and jealous that your kid doesn't have mad skills like that kid does. He will be waving at your kid while he is parading down the street while yours is on the sidewalk. And just because OC won that game means nothing in my stat books. At least the Ducks never got their ass kicked in any of the games they played this weekend.
Ok Skates, now what's the excuse? OCHC-1 Shand beat Jr Ducks-1 Kohn (with the player you said he should've taken but didn't want the problem child). Now what? 🤣
Oh good for them. It will make the season more entertaining to see the teams compete. And how low of you to single out a kid as a problem child. From my understanding they didn't stand a chance of getting this kid on their team. But they sure did try. He chose not too. I think your just a hater and jealous that your kid doesn't have mad skills like that kid does. He will be waving at your kid while he is parading down the street while yours is on the sidewalk. And just because OC won that game means nothing in my stat books. At least the Ducks never got their ass kicked in any of the games they played this weekend.
Skates: Agree with you to keep it classy - but if you had seen the game you'd know it was cringe-worthy, even to Ducks-1 parents. That said, OCHC-1 beat Ducks-1 pretty handily. Except for your bizarre bias against OC and Shand, I don't see how you rank Ducks-1 3rd and OCHC-1 9th. You're better than this.
Love the Bears / Saints 2 match up this weekend. Way to go, SCAHA.
I find it interesting that some match ups from San Jose are being repeated. What's the point of that?SCAHA and CAHA are two different organizations - supposedly... SCAHA isn't going to recognize the two tier system from CAHA so there will be games on the SCAHA schedule that will be blowouts as every Southern (SCAHA) team will likely have to play every other South team for meaningless SCAHA games. CAHA is what matters at AA.
Thanks, do we have any idea when schedules come out?I have to imagine it's going to be the last week of preseason, with the talk of a few teams dropping potentially. They will still have to be clear on 1. are they dropping teams? 2. if they drop 4 will they still flight it, and 3. if they do flight the division, what is the breakup going to be?
| Team | Shots against | Avg/game | Note | |
| GSE1 | 45 | 15.00 | * Seems to be missing a game | |
| Gulls1 | 48 | 16.00 | * Seems to be missing a game | |
| Bears | 64 | 16.00 | ||
| Blackhawks | 68 | 17.00 | ||
| JrFlyers | 68 | 17.00 | ||
| GSE2 | 69 | 17.25 | ||
| Ice Dogs | 71 | 17.75 | ||
| JD2 | 73 | 18.25 | ||
| Sharks | 73 | 18.25 | ||
| JK1 | 55 | 18.33 | * Seems to be missing a game | |
| JK2 | 78 | 19.50 | ||
| Saints2 | 59 | 19.67 | * Seems to be missing a game | |
| JD1 | 80 | 20.00 | ||
| Saints1 | 21 | 21.00 | Only 1 game | |
| Reign | 64 | 21.33 | * Seems to be missing a game | |
| Gulls2 | 90 | 22.50 | ||
| OCHC2 | 95 | 23.75 | ||
| OCHC1 | 97 | 24.25 |
Icadad - seems like you may have some insider data as the stats are not publicly available. Also, your recommendation only works if everyone has equal opportunity to play top tier teams - which they DID NOT. It was pretty obvious which coaches had a conversation with CAHA before the Jamboree and who did not. A few more games are needed to perform an adequate assessment. I saw a team or two that did quite a bit of cherry picking, which led to some shots on net and goals. Two things - one, the team that allowed this has some issues, and two, the team that plays this way is not gearing up for Top tier play. I agree with an earlier post that probably 14 teams demonstrated enough to play the same tier. As is, this just doesn't compute. Too many variable allowed in the planning.....I actually heard from a few people that all clubs had some type of discussions with CAHA around their Tier 2 teams and I suspected their was going to be some type of "Pre-season" ranking scale, which would dictate the 1st 2 games being preset.
The evidence from the Jamboree is that there are lot more teams in category B than CAHA expected. I know there are several teams where coaches and perhaps parents believe they are in category A, but the results didn't show that.
Nope. NHL player would get suspension for what happened in JD game. If that was my kid he'd be done with hockey for the year. I would never allow that kind of behavior. Unsportsmanlike to the nth degree.
Hearing that Bickleys OC team may have to go down to A due to a poor showing in SJ...bummer :-(
Hearing that Bickleys OC team may have to go down to A due to a poor showing in SJ...bummer :-(If that's the case, I have to believe Saints 2 and Jr Sharks will move down as well.
I would probably safely assume the parents of Bickley will not be happy about this! I have heard that kids from other teams went to play for him because he is AA.I wonder if they were just asked to play a few PWA Preseason games to see how they do? Skates... You have to have some information!
Hearing that Bickleys OC team may have to go down to A due to a poor showing in SJ...bummer :-(
WCHP, assuming this turns out to be the case, do you know if it was decided by CAHA or was it a decision made at the Club/Coach level?
Ahh, so it looks like CAHA did do that! I would guess if they loose any of those PW A preseason games, they would get moved to A. Wonder what other teams have to do this?Hearing that Bickleys OC team may have to go down to A due to a poor showing in SJ...bummer :-(
WCHP, assuming this turns out to be the case, do you know if it was decided by CAHA or was it a decision made at the Club/Coach level?
its at the CAHA level and they need to play two more games and that will decide what happens i beleive
Hearing that Bickleys OC team may have to go down to A due to a poor showing in SJ...bummer :-(
WCHP, assuming this turns out to be the case, do you know if it was decided by CAHA or was it a decision made at the Club/Coach level?
its at the CAHA level and they need to play two more games and that will decide what happens i beleive
They beat the Sharks 5-1 and Saints (2) 4-3, but lost to Blackhawks 2-9 and Flyers 2-7.Hearing that Bickleys OC team may have to go down to A due to a poor showing in SJ...bummer :-(
WCHP, assuming this turns out to be the case, do you know if it was decided by CAHA or was it a decision made at the Club/Coach level?
its at the CAHA level and they need to play two more games and that will decide what happens i beleive
I thought CAHA did away with relegation to A at the same time they dropped the inane decision that 1st in Flight 1 would skip past playdowns. Both things dropped off the CAHA site. Did they change the rules again? I would guess a few other teams doing it too if CAHA imposed it, unless it's a political thing. I don't think they had the worst showing, did they?
Are CAHA weekends part of our club dues or do we have to pay extra like tournaments?
Anyone hear about a head coach that struck his player on the bench this past weekend at the jamboree?What team was this on?
Hope this isn't true and just a rumor. Heard the kid needed medical attention.
If going by jamboree records, Sharks and Saints2 had worse showing... Bickley's OC PWAA going 2-2 doesn't sound that bad, unless it's the evaluators forcing them to move down. But if CAHA forces OC to move down, Sharks and Saints2 should be going down too.
I would probably safely assume the parents of Bickley will not be happy about this! I have heard that kids from other teams went to play for him because he is AA.I wonder if they were just asked to play a few PWA Preseason games to see how they do? Skates... You have to have some information!
What teams are they and how strong are they?
Looks like Bickely only lost 5 to 3 to PWAA Ducks 2. So what does that mean? I would argue that Runtso's A team is probably closer to AA caliber. He's only got them at A because of politics within the ducks. Don't think OC losing to them means much of anything.
Not sure who picked this schedule, but OC sure got a cake schedule! Maybe because they were last year's SCAHA champs?There are no last year PW A SCAHA champs on that team.
skate - Are they top tier? No. BTW - Ducks 2 were trailing OC until the end.But the question is? Did OC Win? Who cares if they were leading. What does the final score sheet say? No beef with OC, I only state the facts.
skate - Are they top tier? No. BTW - Ducks 2 were trailing OC until the end.But the question is? Did OC Win? Who cares if they were leading. What does the final score sheet say? No beef with OC, I only state the facts.
skate - Are they top tier? No. BTW - Ducks 2 were trailing OC until the end.But the question is? Did OC Win? Who cares if they were leading. What does the final score sheet say? No beef with OC, I only state the facts.
In the "Prove It" game of OCHC PWAA (2) v. Jr Ducks (2) Runtso, the final score was 1-3 (not 3-5 as erroneously reported above). Runtso Ducks scored 2 goals in first 10 minutes of the game. OCHC then scored their only goal of the game with less than a minute remaining in period 1. The Jr Ducks scored goal #3 in third period. Jr Ducks were short 2 players.
I tried computing the RPI from the Labor Day tournament, and got these for flight 1:"The RPI takes a team's winning percentage, their opponent's winning percentage, and their opponent's opponent's winning percentage and factors them together to come up with a team's RPI. The only difference between the two is the weighting of each category. College basketball still uses 25%-50%-25%, while college hockey weights their RPI 25%-21%-54%."
- California Golden Bears 12AA
- Golden State Elite 12AA-1
- Los Angeles Jr Kings 12AA-1
- Anaheim Jr Ducks 12AA-1
- Ontario Jr Reign 12AA
- San Diego Jr Gulls 12AA-1
- San Jose Jr Sharks 12AA
- Valencia Jr Flyers 12AA
- Golden State Elite 12AA-2
- San Diego Saints 12AA-2
It doesn't, of course, include politics.
Quote from M@sshole: Three complete lines & three sets of D. Not sure if that constitutes "rostered a ton." Quick shifts and strong play for Shand and the boys will see plenty of ice time.
Hmmm, heard there were some upset parents that their kids on 3rd and 4th lines didn't get much ice time during jamboree weekend? 1st and 2nd lines saw quite a bit of ice time. Why are they complaining? I am sure they were aware of this when they signed.
I tried computing the RPI from the Labor Day tournament, and got these for flight 1:"The RPI takes a team's winning percentage, their opponent's winning percentage, and their opponent's opponent's winning percentage and factors them together to come up with a team's RPI. The only difference between the two is the weighting of each category. College basketball still uses 25%-50%-25%, while college hockey weights their RPI 25%-21%-54%."
- California Golden Bears 12AA
- Golden State Elite 12AA-1
- Los Angeles Jr Kings 12AA-1
- Anaheim Jr Ducks 12AA-1
- Ontario Jr Reign 12AA
- San Diego Jr Gulls 12AA-1
- San Jose Jr Sharks 12AA
- Valencia Jr Flyers 12AA
- Golden State Elite 12AA-2
- San Diego Saints 12AA-2
It doesn't, of course, include politics.
Quote from M@sshole: Three complete lines & three sets of D. Not sure if that constitutes "rostered a ton." Quick shifts and strong play for Shand and the boys will see plenty of ice time.
Hmmm, heard there were some upset parents that their kids on 3rd and 4th lines didn't get much ice time during jamboree weekend? 1st and 2nd lines saw quite a bit of ice time. Why are they complaining? I am sure they were aware of this when they signed.
I'm a parent of one of those lower line forwards for OC1. Our son wasn't happy but he is adjusting and with a year of AA play and some potential, he knows that if he wants to be trusted by the coach during crunch time, he needs to work hard and earn that trust. He had a goal and an assist last Sunday but still has a long ways to go. Can't speak for other parents, but they too may recognize that this is a special team and coach and whatever the issues, they are less than most other teams have. The 3rd line on this team may, in time, equal other team's first lines. It depends on the latent potential of the boys and their commitment to hard work.
Don't think this equation works here. Ducks 1 is a no brainer for flight 1.
Not questioning your equation because I have no idea what the equation would look like but how would the Sharks AA and the Reign teams be above Santa Clara or GSE2? Both teams seemed like they were amongst the weakest teams at the jamboree after watching both teams play twice.
Norcal - I get the thought process but the variable not included in this formula is the schedule. Had groups of teams played the same teams, this might work, but using the "eye ball" test, Ducks 1 should be flight one.
Quote from M@sshole: Three complete lines & three sets of D. Not sure if that constitutes "rostered a ton." Quick shifts and strong play for Shand and the boys will see plenty of ice time.
Hmmm, heard there were some upset parents that their kids on 3rd and 4th lines didn't get much ice time during jamboree weekend? 1st and 2nd lines saw quite a bit of ice time. Why are they complaining? I am sure they were aware of this when they signed.
I'm a parent of one of those lower line forwards for OC1. Our son wasn't happy but he is adjusting and with a year of AA play and some potential, he knows that if he wants to be trusted by the coach during crunch time, he needs to work hard and earn that trust. He had a goal and an assist last Sunday but still has a long ways to go. Can't speak for other parents, but they too may recognize that this is a special team and coach and whatever the issues, they are less than most other teams have. The 3rd line on this team may, in time, equal other team's first lines. It depends on the latent potential of the boys and their commitment to hard work.
Skates - Haha. Show me a parent that is 100% happy with their club/travel hockey experience !?!
There were some late roster additions which were a surprise but it seems like the boys are all getting along well - which is where it counts. Still shuffling the line combos to find the right chemistry - but will say that some of the potential "3rd or 4th line" players were out on power-play and penalty-kill teams on Sunday against Valencia and did just fine. As parents I think there are times we all need a yoga class and a few cocktails to get us through the season!
Norcal - NCAA measures Div 1 vs Div 1 etc. You are making an assumption that all teams are equal, which they are not. This is why your formula puts Ducks 1 in the second tier and Sharks/Saints in first. It's kind of the chicken and egg, but regardless, doesn't work. Had all teams equally played tier 1/2 teams, maybe it works, but not here.
Norcal - NCAA measures Div 1 vs Div 1 etc. You are making an assumption that all teams are equal, which they are not. This is why your formula puts Ducks 1 in the second tier and Sharks/Saints in first. It's kind of the chicken and egg, but regardless, doesn't work. Had all teams equally played tier 1/2 teams, maybe it works, but not here.
Shouldn't the spirit of an evaluation be to treat all teams as equals at the start?
Did you see my updated ranking? Sharks drop to 2nd flight.
Ducks1 had one of the lowest "opponent's opponents" scores, which is heavily weighed in the formula; the fact that their opponents had the best records wasn't enough to save them (though beating more of those opponents would have). Saints1 had a good "opponent's opponents" score, and were able to make up more ground since they won 75% of their own games.
Again, it's just one formula. But it's objective, which I think is a virtue. It's also fun to remember that they're 11 and 12.
I think the bottom line is it is early so you need to take the formula with a grain of salt. Need a few more weeks of games for it to make sense.
7) Teams will play minimum of four (4) games (any team may be asked to play a 5th game at the jamboree at the request of the evaluation committee).
8) The two weeks following the Preseason Evaluation Jamboree, teams are subject to being required to play further evaluation “prove me†game(s) within their respective leagues (SCAHA/NORCAL) if requested by the Evaluation Committee.But clubs that were always competitive and the outcome could have gone either way, that is what needs to be taken in consideration.
this can't bode well -
https://stats.caha.timetoscore.com/oss-scoresheet?game_id=13920&mode=display (https://stats.caha.timetoscore.com/oss-scoresheet?game_id=13920&mode=display)
Come on B.O. !!I don't see any basis for placing Kings 2 and Dogs in an expanded Tier I.
Anyway, Tier I cannot have more than 10 teams. My bet is that they cut it at 8
If CAHA was going to draw the line for flight 1 at 10 teams, I think 1-10 have proven they belong. If CAHA was hard core, they'd make Flight 1 the 1-8 teams, but seeing as Ducks 2 beat the Gulls 1 in San Jose, I don't think you can leave them out. Plus, they're the Ducks which could make the next CAHA board meeting a little awkward should they get relegated to flight 2.
We're in agreement about Kings 2 and Dogs, but would you be surprised if CAHA simply goes with 1 flight of 13 teams and relegates the teams I have listed as Tier 2 to Peewee A? Perhaps Reign survive as 14 (doubt it) and 15-18 drop to A. Regardless, if you are a team listed in the 14-18 group, why even bother trying to play Flight 2 AA when the top half of Peewee A is going to be just as competitive for you?
Come on B.O. !!I don't see any basis for placing Kings 2 and Dogs in an expanded Tier I.
Anyway, Tier I cannot have more than 10 teams. My bet is that they cut it at 8
If CAHA was going to draw the line for flight 1 at 10 teams, I think 1-10 have proven they belong. If CAHA was hard core, they'd make Flight 1 the 1-8 teams, but seeing as Ducks 2 beat the Gulls 1 in San Jose, I don't think you can leave them out. Plus, they're the Ducks which could make the next CAHA board meeting a little awkward should they get relegated to flight 2.
We're in agreement about Kings 2 and Dogs, but would you be surprised if CAHA simply goes with 1 flight of 13 teams and relegates the teams I have listed as Tier 2 to Peewee A? Perhaps Reign survive as 14 (doubt it) and 15-18 drop to A. Regardless, if you are a team listed in the 14-18 group, why even bother trying to play Flight 2 AA when the top half of Peewee A is going to be just as competitive for you?
Excuses are like assholes.....everyone has one and they all stink.
No room for excuses at CAHA weekend's and playdowns.
B.O. YOU GOTTA HAVE A BETTER CRACK THAN THAT !!Come on B.O. !!I don't see any basis for placing Kings 2 and Dogs in an expanded Tier I.
Anyway, Tier I cannot have more than 10 teams. My bet is that they cut it at 8
If CAHA was going to draw the line for flight 1 at 10 teams, I think 1-10 have proven they belong. If CAHA was hard core, they'd make Flight 1 the 1-8 teams, but seeing as Ducks 2 beat the Gulls 1 in San Jose, I don't think you can leave them out. Plus, they're the Ducks which could make the next CAHA board meeting a little awkward should they get relegated to flight 2.
We're in agreement about Kings 2 and Dogs, but would you be surprised if CAHA simply goes with 1 flight of 13 teams and relegates the teams I have listed as Tier 2 to Peewee A? Perhaps Reign survive as 14 (doubt it) and 15-18 drop to A. Regardless, if you are a team listed in the 14-18 group, why even bother trying to play Flight 2 AA when the top half of Peewee A is going to be just as competitive for you?
Excuses are like assholes.....everyone has one and they all stink.
No room for excuses at CAHA weekend's and playdowns.
then excuses are very similar to Trans4761's then too, I guess 8)
At this point it's pretty clear who are the top and bottom teams. I would rank them the following way.
Tier 1:
1. GSE 1
2. Kings 1 (Beat Kings (2) 7-2 on Saturday & Beat Bears 4-2 on Sunday)
3. Bears 1 (Lost to Kings (1) 2-4 on Sunday)
4. Gulls 1 (Score vs. OCHC1?)
5. OCHC1 (Score vs. Gulls 1?)
6. GSE 2
7. Ducks 1 (Don't know the score, but I assume they destroyed Saints 2)
8. Saints 1 (Beat Ducks 2 6-2)
9. Blackhawks
10. Ducks 2 (Lost to Saints 1 2-6)
11. Flyers (I assume they beat OCHC 2)
12. Kings 2 (Lost to Kings (1) 2-7 & tied Ice Dogs (5-5)
13. Ice Dogs (Tied Kings (2) 5-5.
Tier 2:
14. Reign (Played Gulls 2 - Score?)
15. Gulls 2 (Played Reign - Score?)
16. OCHC 2 (Played Flyers - assume they lost, but score?)
17. Saints 2 (Assume Ducks 1 had their way with them)
18. Sharks
* It seems like 1-8 are all pretty tight. Any of those teams can beat each other on any given day.
** 9-13 seem like they'll be competitive with each other all year, but will struggle against 1-9.
*** 14-18 should just drop or be dropped. It's clear they're not competitive on the AA level.
Let the arguing begin.
BO is correct. How many of your kids have played games 45 minutes apart? That after two games the day before? Even with all that, the Ice Dogs could barely hang on in the end. I predict a KINGS 2 blowout of the Ice Dogs next time they meet. Not a strong team.
Norcal - wow, take a shot at the staff! It's actually the result of poor planning by Scaha and the fact that they fine you if you missing a game.
Our 10am game was scheduled long before SCAHA scheduled our noon game. A team came from out of state to play us Saturday and Sunday. It was planeed a month inadvance. Not sure how you think our staff could have controlled the SCAHA schedule.One was a SCAHA game the other was probably a scrimmage.
I think most teams have better coaches and managers than that.
Yeah, you're probably right. The Kings 2 coaching staff only has 3 yrs OHL experience, 4 years NCAA D1 experience, over 1000 NHL games, 16 state championships, 8 pacific division titles, 6 trips to Nationals, a WHL championship and a Stanley cup. But I digress....
The coaches didn't schedule the 2nd game scaha did
Norcal - wow, take a shot at the staff! It's actually the result of poor planning by Scaha and the fact that they fine you if you missing a game.
CAHA rule 9.17: There shall be a minimum of four (4) hours scheduled between games played on the same day, and twelve (12) hours scheduled on games played on consecutive days. Time is counted from the end of one game to the start (puck drop) of the next.
SCAHA rule 34.09(i) repeats that language.
NORCAL rule 5.9.E: If two games are scheduled for the same day, there must be at least four hours separation and there must not
be more than one hour normal driving time between the rinks at which the games are scheduled.
Here are rules that actually makes sense, so, yes, it would be nice for "the staff" to get the scheduling right.
Norcal - wow, take a shot at the staff! It's actually the result of poor planning by Scaha and the fact that they fine you if you missing a game.
CAHA rule 9.17: There shall be a minimum of four (4) hours scheduled between games played on the same day, and twelve (12) hours scheduled on games played on consecutive days. Time is counted from the end of one game to the start (puck drop) of the next.
SCAHA rule 34.09(i) repeats that language.
NORCAL rule 5.9.E: If two games are scheduled for the same day, there must be at least four hours separation and there must not
be more than one hour normal driving time between the rinks at which the games are scheduled.
Here are rules that actually makes sense, so, yes, it would be nice for "the staff" to get the scheduling right.
Those SCAHA and CAHA rules are for SCAHA and CAHA playoffs
Those SCAHA and CAHA rules are for SCAHA and CAHA playoffs
Norcal - wow, take a shot at the staff! It's actually the result of poor planning by Scaha and the fact that they fine you if you missing a game.
CAHA rule 9.17: There shall be a minimum of four (4) hours scheduled between games played on the same day, and twelve (12) hours scheduled on games played on consecutive days. Time is counted from the end of one game to the start (puck drop) of the next.
SCAHA rule 34.09(i) repeats that language.
NORCAL rule 5.9.E: If two games are scheduled for the same day, there must be at least four hours separation and there must not
be more than one hour normal driving time between the rinks at which the games are scheduled.
Here are rules that actually makes sense, so, yes, it would be nice for "the staff" to get the scheduling right.
Those SCAHA and CAHA rules are for SCAHA and CAHA playoffs
USA Hockey has similar rules for ANY scheduled Game. If I had time (or cared enough), I would find the reference...
I have no dog in this fight but it appears much ado about nothing. These kids have practices in the morning, dryland and scrimmages all in one day with minimal time in between. Many of these kids attend roller hockey tournaments where the format could call for them to play 4 or 5 games in one day. Those schedules can be crazy. I wasn't there to see the kids in action but I hardly think any of them were affected in a negative way by playing these games. If that is not the case I would certainly be objective and like to hear the specifics.
The coaches didn't schedule the 2nd game scaha did
The teams have a mechanism to reschedule SCAHA games (whether they allow it is another issue). PlusSo if SCAHA approved the x-game and then scheduled a league game, they're in violation of their own rules.
- 32.04 Any SCAHA team wishing to play in tournaments or exhibition games must notify the SCAHA Statistician in advance of proposed games. The SCAHA Statistician must give permission for these games to be played.
But if one of your coaches won the Stanley Cup, that changes everything!
Those SCAHA and CAHA rules are for SCAHA and CAHA playoffs
Indeed true for SCAHA (thanks). CAHA section 9 contains rules for AA, not just playoffs.
The coaches didn't schedule the 2nd game scaha did
Its official. Flight 2: Gulls 2, Ice Dogs, Reign, Kings 2, OCHC 2 and Flyers.
They will protect the big clubs.
If my math is correct, 7 teams? Playing Blackhawks, GSE1 & GSE2, correct?Its official. Flight 2: Gulls 2, Ice Dogs, Reign, Kings 2, OCHC 2 and Flyers.Making 6 socal teams go to Vacaville to play each other is ridiculous. There is absolutely no reason for it now. Flight2 Vacaville should be cancelled immediately while people still have time to cancel hotels.
If my math is correct, 7 teams? Playing Blackhawks, GSE1 & GSE2, correct?Its official. Flight 2: Gulls 2, Ice Dogs, Reign, Kings 2, OCHC 2 and Flyers.Making 6 socal teams go to Vacaville to play each other is ridiculous. There is absolutely no reason for it now. Flight2 Vacaville should be cancelled immediately while people still have time to cancel hotels.
Its official. Flight 2: Gulls 2, Ice Dogs, Reign, Kings 2, OCHC 2 and Flyers.
Making 6 socal teams go to Vacaville to play each other is ridiculous. There is absolutely no reason for it now. Flight2 Vacaville should be cancelled immediately while people still have time to cancel hotels.
Flight 1
Bears
Blackhawks
Ducks(1)
Ducks(2)
GSE(1)
GSE(2)
Gulls(1)
Kings(1)
OCHC(1)
Saints(1)
Flight 2
Flyers
Gulls(2)
Ice Dogs
Kings(2)
OCHC(2)
Reign
Dropped to "A"
Saints(2)
Sharks
Flight 1
Bears
Blackhawks
Ducks(1)
Ducks(2)
GSE(1)
GSE(2)
Gulls(1)
Kings(1)
OCHC(1)
Saints(1)
Flight 2
Flyers
Gulls(2)
Ice Dogs
Kings(2)
OCHC(2)
Reign
Dropped to "A"
Saints(2)
Sharks
The formula is useless in a small sample without enough games to establish strength of schedule. Anyone around could have told you that Ducks1 is a far better team than either Kings2 or for that matter Ducks2. Some teams played a weak schedule as established clearly by the fact that teams have dropped down to A. The very fact that you got it completely wrong on several teams is an indictment of the formula within the context of the Jamboree.
Dogs/Reign is not a flight-buster, so what was the other result? Guessing Flyers won?
The flight system is a complete joke. CAHA had their plans and did everything in their power to get their chosen teams placed where they wanted. It didn't work out, and some teams got screwed in the process. My question is, if they cancelled Lakewood for Flight 2, is CAHA refunding money to Flight 2 teams? There's no price break for Flight 2, so they should be getting the same games as Flight 1. (It's a rhetorical question. I already know they won't refund anything).Flight 2 pays less than Flight 1. If you paid this in your Club Dues, then you should be asking your Club for a refund. If you pay it in your Team Dues (to your team Manager), then they will be making the adjustment to your budget.
In my opinion, if a team is wanting to get a playoff spot, it's almost better to have been a top team in the bottom flight to have a sure spot to play in the playoffs??? Granted, you are stuck playing the same teams over and over again (is it a challenge to the kids???) and have gotten screwed with travel, but hey if you belong in the top and now are placed in the bottom flight, at least you know you are sure thing when Feb/March comes along and you have already clinched a spot to play for the championship!
Of course sarcasm is involved here...
Were the Ducks competitive?
Ha! There was so much chatter about Ducks 1 not belonging in top flight since their Jamboree performance against all the top teams they played, was curious if they were competititve against one of the top teams. Guess it goes to show they are and the jamboree was too early to predict the outcome of an entire season!!! My original point validated that kids that have played together will do well that weekend and others will come together shortly there after, getting experience playing with each other and learning each other's styles on the ice.Were the Ducks competitive?
:o
Not at all... The Ducks are a very tough team and if you watched them against GSE1, you would know that. That game was fun to watch and both Goalies were amazing! The last 2 goals were scored with less that 2min left in the game and about 15 seconds apart.Ha! There was so much chatter about Ducks 1 not belonging in top flight since their Jamboree performance against all the top teams they played, was curious if they were competititve against one of the top teams. Guess it goes to show they are and the jamboree was too early to predict the outcome of an entire season!!! My original point validated that kids that have played together will do well that weekend and others will come together shortly there after, getting experience playing with each other and learning each other's styles on the ice.Were the Ducks competitive?
:o
Bet the Bears thought that would be a guaranteed win???
Anyone know the OC1/Gulls score?
3 to 1? Case in point. Tier 1 vs Tier 2, and only a 2 point differential? Yeah, that makes sense.
3 to 1? Case in point. Tier 1 vs Tier 2, and only a 2 point differential? Yeah, that makes sense.
Makes you kind of wonder if OC1 should be in the bottom flight 2. :o
Not at all... The Ducks are a very tough team and if you watched them against GSE1, you would know that. That game was fun to watch and both Goalies were amazing! The last 2 goals were scored with less that 2min left in the game and about 15 seconds apart.Ha! There was so much chatter about Ducks 1 not belonging in top flight since their Jamboree performance against all the top teams they played, was curious if they were competititve against one of the top teams. Guess it goes to show they are and the jamboree was too early to predict the outcome of an entire season!!! My original point validated that kids that have played together will do well that weekend and others will come together shortly there after, getting experience playing with each other and learning each other's styles on the ice.Were the Ducks competitive?
:o
Bet the Bears thought that would be a guaranteed win???
I did not realize that either. Then two teams from tier 1 miss the playoffs.
Just Curious...Have Ducks 2 played Kings 2 at any point?
Doesn't really matter. Kings didn't have a chance to play GSE 2 nor Gulls 1. On the other side, Ducks 2 never played Kings 1. It was pretty obvious that this was architected behind the scenes. My prediction is the Ducks 2 have a very long and painful season. Can't wait till the Kings 2 and Ducks 2 face-off in scaha. It's pretty obvious that CAHA didn't want a birth year team in Flight 1......Again - how about fixing the AAA problem. Both the 05 and 06 birth year teams faired pretty darn well in PW AA.....Oh, and the 05 team, that made the playoffs, did get an occasional but kicking from the all 03 teams.....Doesn't mean they were not competitive......
Pretty sure that CAHA feels that the AAA "problem" was fixed when it limited AAA to five teams per age group. The AAA "problem" being solved, they moved on to the AA "problem" and came up with the flight system.
As far as Kings 2 go, how did the fare against Kings 1? And if they want to play Ducks 2 so badly, aren't the Ducks just a phone call away for a scrimmage?
I like Kings 2 a lot - looks a talented group of kids. And I don't discount politics. But it sure looks to me from the initial match ups that the Kings organization evaluated them as a Flight 2 team going into the Jamboree. Kings 2 also had a good chance to show that they did not belong in Flight 2 with the match ups against Gulls 2 and the Reign at the Jamboree, and the Ice Dogs last week. All of those games were within a goal. That is half of Flight 2 right there. I would venture that the most interesting game in Vacaville for Flight II is Kings 2 v. Flyers.
Like I said. Can't wait to see this board when the Ducks 2 loses to Kings 2 in Scaha, as well s some other Tier 1 teams. Whoever said the AAA problem is solved, does not have a kid in AAA. I do. They have one AAA up North and can't get any of the good kids to join it. Thus, they land on the AA GSE teams. If their were a AAA flight system, the Norcal teams would be in Flight 3. In a state with this many kids, and so many AA teams, why do the AA teams play the same 2 teams all year? ??? ??? ?
Like I said. Can't wait to see this board when the Ducks 2 loses to Kings 2 in Scaha, as well s some other Tier 1 teams. Whoever said the AAA problem is solved, does not have a kid in AAA. I do. They have one AAA up North and can't get any of the good kids to join it. Thus, they land on the AA GSE teams. If their were a AAA flight system, the Norcal teams would be in Flight 3. In a state with this many kids, and so many AA teams, why do the AA teams play the same 2 teams all year? ??? ??? ?
Like I said....can't wait to see when the tier 1 teams start losing to Tier 2. So kings 2 lost to kings 1 7 to 2? And? Ok, have Ducks 2 played them? Ducks 2 lost to GSE 1 6 to 1....Kings 2 lost 6 to 0. And yet, one is deemed competitive and the other not so much? Trust me, it's all smoke and mirrors. If the big clubs wanted their teams in flight 1, that's where they would be. BTW - Was there a new rule that a few star players couldn't help put a team over the edge (aka the goalie?) If so, I missed it......BTW that Ducks 2 team has an 05 goalie if we want to start getting ticky tacky.
OC Shand AA lost to 06 Kings AAA last weekend. 4 to 1.
Like I said....can't wait to see when the tier 1 teams start losing to Tier 2. So kings 2 lost to kings 1 7 to 2? And? Ok, have Ducks 2 played them? Ducks 2 lost to GSE 1 6 to 1....Kings 2 lost 6 to 0. And yet, one is deemed competitive and the other not so much? Trust me, it's all smoke and mirrors. If the big clubs wanted their teams in flight 1, that's where they would be. BTW - Was there a new rule that a few star players couldn't help put a team over the edge (aka the goalie?) If so, I missed it......BTW that Ducks 2 team has an 05 goalie if we want to start getting ticky tacky.
I foot stomp the last couple posts. Sharks program is a part of the AAA problem, but it's even bigger than that. It's very unfortunate that several of the 06 kids playing flight 1 this year will be playing PW AA next year while several of the 07 flight 2 kids move on to AAA. Does that really sound right?
Like I said....can't wait to see when the tier 1 teams start losing to Tier 2. So kings 2 lost to kings 1 7 to 2? And? Ok, have Ducks 2 played them? Ducks 2 lost to GSE 1 6 to 1....Kings 2 lost 6 to 0. And yet, one is deemed competitive and the other not so much? Trust me, it's all smoke and mirrors. If the big clubs wanted their teams in flight 1, that's where they would be. BTW - Was there a new rule that a few star players couldn't help put a team over the edge (aka the goalie?) If so, I missed it......BTW that Ducks 2 team has an 05 goalie if we want to start getting ticky tacky.
I foot stomp the last couple posts. Sharks program is a part of the AAA problem, but it's even bigger than that. It's very unfortunate that several of the 06 kids playing flight 1 this year will be playing PW AA next year while several of the 07 flight 2 kids move on to AAA. Does that really sound right?
Interesting. So you are saying the Kings as a "big club" did not want Kings2 in flight 1? ??? ?
If I'm not mistaken Ducks 2 beat Gulls 1 in SJ and Gulls 2 6-0 (not 2-1). If you HAVE to draw the line at 10 (admitted arbitrary) I then I think the edge goes to Ducks 2 IMO Sorry.
Gulls 1 played kings aaa
Jr Kings1 beat Jr Reign 5-0.
Hockey05, it was the ‘06 Jr Kings AAA
Go Kings_26, nice job to your birth year Jr Kings2, that is a good Bears team AND I heard the Bears “only†outshot you 45-17.
AND the Bears "only" got outscored 2-0 in the 3rd period.
#4B0, so another way to look at it would be that the birth year, future '17-'18 Flt #2 AA Champs were down 5-0 going into the 3rd?
And how many Brick games did they win? Might not want to use that as the argument.
I noticed you said JRK2 are stronger than "many flight one teams"...keep drinking the kool-aid. Which teams might those be? Have they beat any flight one teams to date?
JK2 has played a ton of games -- three times more than some teams. Clearly, JK2 knows how to schedule scrimmages and has chosen who and where it wishes to play. Perhaps a few scrimmages against those middle Flight 1 teams may have been in order. So now the task is pretty simple: play their way in, and in the process have a better record in SCAHA games than Ducks 2. Very curious to see how they match up against the FLyers at Vacaville...
#4BO, FUNNY, VERY FUNNY actually. Common core math still has JK2 losing 5-4 in 4 periods.AND the Bears "only" got outscored 2-0 in the 3rd period.If games were 4 periods we win that game
#4B0, so another way to look at it would be that the birth year, future '17-'18 Flt #2 AA Champs were down 5-0 going into the 3rd?
#4BO, FUNNY, VERY FUNNY actually. Common core math still has JK2 losing 5-4 in 4 periods.AND the Bears "only" got outscored 2-0 in the 3rd period.If games were 4 periods we win that game
#4B0, so another way to look at it would be that the birth year, future '17-'18 Flt #2 AA Champs were down 5-0 going into the 3rd?
Only trying to get a rise or response out of Go Kings_26 who seems willing to "stir things up" on this CalHockey board AND not support her/possibly his thoughts with facts, like you have and do.
Agreed, Flyers vs JK2 @ 1:15pm on Sunday in Vacaville will be alot of fun to watch as well as read about here on CalHockey
Losing to a bears team 5-2 when a week before the JK 1 team lost to the same bears team 4-2 says something?
Rats13, please don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.Losing to a bears team 5-2 when a week before the JK 1 team lost to the same bears team 4-2 says something?I think Jrk1 won that game against the Bears 4-2
Just so I'm following GoKing_26's logic...
Bears beat Kings (1) 5-2 in San Jose. Kings (1) then beat Bears 4-2 two weeks ago.Kings (2) ONLY lost to Bears 2-5. Which is the same score when Kings (1) lost. Therefore, Kings (2) and Kings (1) are basically on par? CAHA screwed up. They should be counting MORAL victories too.
It's a conspiracy that they're holding the 07s down.
If only Kings (1) and Kings (2) played we would really get a sense of where those teams stack up against each other on the actual ice and not through deduction. Oh wait, they did. Twice.
But deduction is fun, so let's keep playing.
Kings (1) & Bears both lost to Ducks (1) and both Kings (1) and Bears beat Kings (2) so therefore, Ducks (1) should have zero trouble with Kings (2). Kings (1) lost to the Gulls (1) and Kings (1) beat Kings (2) so therefore, Gulls shouldn't have any trouble with Kings (2) either. Ducks (2) beat Gulls (1) who beat Kings (1) who beat Kings (2) so therefore Ducks (2) are better than Kings (1) which means they should also be better than Kings (2).
Trying to logic all this out with real wins in 3 periods vs moral victories is completely ridiculous.
The truth is, Kings (2) have now played 3 teams in flight 1 and haven't beat any of them. I get that you want your team in flight 1, but what have they done to actually prove they belong there? Whose spot do they deserve? And if they were in flight 1, how do you suppose they'd do?
Bobby Orr-What is your guess as to why CAHA decided to put Kings 2 in Flight 2?
2 flight system makes sense if you have a good way of separating flight 1 teams from flight 2 teams. We played a number of non-competitive games last year, and they are not fun or good for anyone.
In this case, I just don't see how CAHA could conclude that JK2 doesn't belong in flight 1. Seems like a purely arbitrary decision.
Will JK2 get to play Flight 1 teams this season outside of CAHA?
Bobby Orr-What is your guess as to why CAHA decided to put Kings 2 in Flight 2?
Because CAHA thinks they don't belong in flight 1? That's my best guess. My complaint has never been that Kings2 should be in flight 1, my complaint is that they never got to play any of the teams that they could have potentially beaten out for a spot. I don't think they got a fair shake to prove themselves. Simple as that. The whole 2 flight thing is stupid. What a waste of time and resources for CAHA.
Maybe everyone should get their facts straight and perhaps instead of talking trash on a team or coach or parents on here without knowing the facts don't comment at all! Here are the facts, you don't know what your kid says on the ice unless you have them recorded. I assure you that there is at least 1 kid on every team that uses profanity. Not all kids do but I have heard it from kids warming up to kids on the ice and coming off the ice from various teams, so again facts! I also assure you that your kid telling you what was said on the ice isn't the full story. I'm sure they failed to tell what they said on the ice. Fact... There are always 2 sides to a story so perhaps you should know both before berating kids and parenting/coaching on this site. I'm not going to go into specifics with what I know or what I heard out of respect for the kids and parents involved but I say with confidence there is more to the one sided post about the issue and again I do not condone either action but, to say the organization needs to do something about it, there are facts you do not know about the situation. Not all people feel the need to come on here and call out kids or teams which is why you hear the one sidedness either for or against your team. Or in many cases not involving "your kids team at all"!
We all complain about officiating at the rinks especially when things don't go "our way" or there are calls that are missed. Imagine being those kids who constantly get penalties or constantly get the play on and no call when they were the one that a call should have gone their way. Are they bad kids? No they want things to be fair and sadly this sport is great at teaching kids, life isn't fair. So again before commenting about suspensions which in your eyes means bad coaching and parenting know the facts as to what led up to the suspensions. Do I condone the behavior, absolutely not but I do know that those kids don't deserve to be berated because quite frankly the suspensions were not "fair" to either of them due to poor officiating. Otherwise, you would see both kids involved in opposing teams listed as well. I will not go into details with my comments because it isn't the forum to do so as this a youth league and if there are true issues then then clearly this isn't the avenue to take to make a change in behavior, this only creates animosity and rumors! If you feel the need to learn the facts perhaps talk to the parents involved of the kids you want to start rumors about. I'm sure they would love to tell you their side of this post in person. You will all have the chance to see them at the rinks considering the suspensions are listed in a public setting by following the link in a post above. What they don't say is the whole story and events that occurred to warrant a suspension. So the lack of respect and sportsmanship begins on this forum by parents who would be appalled if their kid acted the way parents do here! Get the facts before you feel the need to berate kids and families on here! If you are at a game and you have seen the "whole story"and heard every word from a player or coach or ref with your own ears, then perhaps you are worthy of commenting about a situation you know the facts about.
Maybe everyone should get their facts straight and perhaps instead of talking trash on a team or coach or parents on here without knowing the facts don't comment at all! Here are the facts, you don't know what your kid says on the ice unless you have them recorded. I assure you that there is at least 1 kid on every team that uses profanity. Not all kids do but I have heard it from kids warming up to kids on the ice and coming off the ice from various teams, so again facts! I also assure you that your kid telling you what was said on the ice isn't the full story. I'm sure they failed to tell what they said on the ice. Fact... There are always 2 sides to a story so perhaps you should know both before berating kids and parenting/coaching on this site. I'm not going to go into specifics with what I know or what I heard out of respect for the kids and parents involved but I say with confidence there is more to the one sided post about the issue and again I do not condone either action but, to say the organization needs to do something about it, there are facts you do not know about the situation. Not all people feel the need to come on here and call out kids or teams which is why you hear the one sidedness either for or against your team. Or in many cases not involving "your kids team at all"!
We all complain about officiating at the rinks especially when things don't go "our way" or there are calls that are missed. Imagine being those kids who constantly get penalties or constantly get the play on and no call when they were the one that a call should have gone their way. Are they bad kids? No they want things to be fair and sadly this sport is great at teaching kids, life isn't fair. So again before commenting about suspensions which in your eyes means bad coaching and parenting know the facts as to what led up to the suspensions. Do I condone the behavior, absolutely not but I do know that those kids don't deserve to be berated because quite frankly the suspensions were not "fair" to either of them due to poor officiating. Otherwise, you would see both kids involved in opposing teams listed as well. I will not go into details with my comments because it isn't the forum to do so as this a youth league and if there are true issues then then clearly this isn't the avenue to take to make a change in behavior, this only creates animosity and rumors! If you feel the need to learn the facts perhaps talk to the parents involved of the kids you want to start rumors about. I'm sure they would love to tell you their side of this post in person. You will all have the chance to see them at the rinks considering the suspensions are listed in a public setting by following the link in a post above. What they don't say is the whole story and events that occurred to warrant a suspension. So the lack of respect and sportsmanship begins on this forum by parents who would be appalled if their kid acted the way parents do here! Get the facts before you feel the need to berate kids and families on here! If you are at a game and you have seen the "whole story"and heard every word from a player or coach or ref with your own ears, then perhaps you are worthy of commenting about a situation you know the facts about.
Maybe everyone should get their facts straight and perhaps instead of talking trash on a team or coach or parents on here without knowing the facts don't comment at all! Here are the facts, you don't know what your kid says on the ice unless you have them recorded. I assure you that there is at least 1 kid on every team that uses profanity. Not all kids do but I have heard it from kids warming up to kids on the ice and coming off the ice from various teams, so again facts! I also assure you that your kid telling you what was said on the ice isn't the full story. I'm sure they failed to tell what they said on the ice. Fact... There are always 2 sides to a story so perhaps you should know both before berating kids and parenting/coaching on this site. I'm not going to go into specifics with what I know or what I heard out of respect for the kids and parents involved but I say with confidence there is more to the one sided post about the issue and again I do not condone either action but, to say the organization needs to do something about it, there are facts you do not know about the situation. Not all people feel the need to come on here and call out kids or teams which is why you hear the one sidedness either for or against your team. Or in many cases not involving "your kids team at all"!
We all complain about officiating at the rinks especially when things don't go "our way" or there are calls that are missed. Imagine being those kids who constantly get penalties or constantly get the play on and no call when they were the one that a call should have gone their way. Are they bad kids? No they want things to be fair and sadly this sport is great at teaching kids, life isn't fair. So again before commenting about suspensions which in your eyes means bad coaching and parenting know the facts as to what led up to the suspensions. Do I condone the behavior, absolutely not but I do know that those kids don't deserve to be berated because quite frankly the suspensions were not "fair" to either of them due to poor officiating. Otherwise, you would see both kids involved in opposing teams listed as well. I will not go into details with my comments because it isn't the forum to do so as this a youth league and if there are true issues then then clearly this isn't the avenue to take to make a change in behavior, this only creates animosity and rumors! If you feel the need to learn the facts perhaps talk to the parents involved of the kids you want to start rumors about. I'm sure they would love to tell you their side of this post in person. You will all have the chance to see them at the rinks considering the suspensions are listed in a public setting by following the link in a post above. What they don't say is the whole story and events that occurred to warrant a suspension. So the lack of respect and sportsmanship begins on this forum by parents who would be appalled if their kid acted the way parents do here! Get the facts before you feel the need to berate kids and families on here! If you are at a game and you have seen the "whole story"and heard every word from a player or coach or ref with your own ears, then perhaps you are worthy of commenting about a situation you know the facts about.
Fact: The Ducks 1 team has more suspensions than any other Flight 1 U12 AA club this season.
Fact: There is no place for kicking or punching an opponent at this level of play...ever (don't try to justify it). Never tried to justify anything, simply saying the facts are not published for everyone to read. If you saw the games you know what happened and know the facts.
Fact: We all recognize that there are people associated with these posts and no names or player numbers were used. No just calling out a team with 15-20 kids for people to assume about which kid does.
Fact: Kids learn behaviors from those they are around often whether it be teammates, friends, parents or coaching--if your little Marchand is one of those kids who is "constantly getting penalties called on them" that result in suspensions maybe you should consider more closely where this learned behavior comes from and address it. For the record my kid has taken 3 penalties the past 2 seasons and never suspended so again assuming and not knowing facts.
I know dealing in facts is tough when the facts don't support your narrative. My point taken exactly as how it was intended. There are several people on this thread who point out events that aren't even involved or weren't even at a game. There are constant complaints about officiating and one sided games and yes there was a reference to bad parenting and bad coaching earlier in this board.
Observations from the first CAHA weekend in no particular order (No disrespect intended to any of the teams or players):
- Kings 2 are in the flight they belong and should probably be joined by Ducks 2
- GSE1 is a very beatable team
- The Bears and OCHC1 are enigmas (it's pick 'em in any game they play)
- Saints 1 are a far better team than they get credit for (don't sleep on those kids)
- Kings 1 are a talented but undisciplined team
- Santa Clara could play a spoiler in any given game (looked good against Kings 1 and OCHC but looked overmatched vs Ducks 1)
- GSE2 and Gulls 1 are schizophrenic teams (looked good in two games and looked terrible in two games)
- Ducks 1 are a talented group but continue to lead the league in suspensions (anyone got insight into this, seems like a coaching issue from afar but without direct knowledge it's difficult to say)...http://www.caha.com/suspensions.pl (http://www.caha.com/suspensions.pl)
Let the after weekend 1 discussions begin.
Bears came out "ready to play", I wouldn't use the term "over confident"... second, who wouldn't be reliant on one of their top players??? NHL does it?? Am I not correct? All in all, certain teams match up against certain teams... it's a long season and most teams will make playoffs... almost every team should not be too worried as long as they are winning game they should be winning
So does anyone know how OC1 has all of their SCAHA games so far scheduled as home games at Yorba Linda? Hmmmm...... and not OC2? 8 games in a row at Yorba Linda. They play OC2 and OC1 is the away team but they are still at Yorba Linda. Does that seem like an advantage?The real fun part would be to see where a certain OC 16AA team plays in conjunction with OC1... ;D ;D ;D
The suggestion that you should change your user name was not because we don't love it. We do. Rather, your post was so embarrassing that it was meant to protect you from the abuse you have received.
[size=78%] [/size]
HHH,
Was at the game you vaguely refer to. I saw the ejection and the Duck player slammed his stick at the exit door glass. Whether fair suspension or not, that was gross sportsmanship. He was lucky not to have broken the glass and then perhaps a longer suspension. My skater confirms that a Duck player did say "f... you" to every OC1 player in the line. THAT is your idea of good sportsmanship? Others here have confirmed a racial slur by a Duck player. There is no place for that in sport or life. It should be a season long suspension. Of course, you would say, "there is another side" to the racial slur. What would that be?
As for you advice to talk to a parent on the other team, we were at CAHA PWAA Vacaville 2 years ago and when a parent tried talking to a then Duck team parent, who charged out of the stands with the intent to injure. Fortunately, he must have had a reputation with other Duck parents because two men and a woman tackled him and led him out of the arena. It was ugly and could have been worse.
The suggestion that you should change your user name was not because we don't love it. We do. Rather, your post was so embarrassing that it was meant to protect you from the abuse you have received.
As for talking hockey, the Ducks I - OC1 game was probably the match of the weekend. OC1 going back to Carmen Starr has won 3 and lost 0. But the Ducks have improved and may be the slightly better side right now. It will be fun to watch as this evolves so long as parents keep their perspective and enjoy kids play. Better sportsmanship by one or two Duck players will serve the rivalry well.
Never thought I'd see the day when someone gave Icadad a run for his money on the length of a post, but Triple H may have come close.
So it appears from the SCAHA meeting minutes from September20th, Flight II is going to get a playoff schedule afterall. Can SCAHA get it together and stop accommodating the whiners and losers. Participation trophy syndrome at its best!
So it appears from the SCAHA meeting minutes from September20th, Flight II is going to get a playoff schedule afterall. Can SCAHA get it together and stop accommodating the whiners and losers. Participation trophy syndrome at its best!
So it appears from the SCAHA meeting minutes from September20th, Flight II is going to get a playoff schedule afterall. Can SCAHA get it together and stop accommodating the whiners and losers. Participation trophy syndrome at its best!
So it appears from the SCAHA meeting minutes from September20th, Flight II is going to get a playoff schedule afterall. Can SCAHA get it together and stop accommodating the whiners and losers. Participation trophy syndrome at its best!
Why do you care of the flight 2 teams get to play a playoff? Nothing wrong with a few more games.
You buried the lead, skates; they also discussed flighting out SQUIRT B! Someone contact Rob Dyrdek, because SCAHA is infringing upon the copyright of Ridiculousness.
Ducks2 are obviously a young team, but filled with plenty of skill and tenacity. They showed a lot of heart (and zero quit) in the close game with GSE2.
I 100% agree with you on the Ducks 2 team. I watched two of their games and thought their hustle, team play and overall skill would pay dividends for them long term.
The season looks like it is really shaping up to be highly competitive and a great development opportunity for all of the kids!
Caha weekend coming up.
Any predictions?????
Or the scorekeepers were a family member of the home team!!So what's the story? Heard the Coach was ejected from the game.. Doesn't seem to be a scorekeeper issue. Wasn't the alternative to have 2 officials as one was going to scorekeep? Seems like a parent stepped up for the benefit of both teams. After all.. wouldn't we all like watching our kids play vs being stuck scorekeeping?
Or the scorekeepers were a family member of the home team!!So what's the story? Heard the Coach was ejected from the game.. Doesn't seem to be a scorekeeper issue. Wasn't the alternative to have 2 officials as one was going to scorekeep? Seems like a parent stepped up for the benefit of both teams. After all.. wouldn't we all like watching our kids play vs being stuck scorekeeping?
Obviously the Saints are playing good hockey and showed their capability dealing GSE their first loss.Some background on the on the “Saints 1 – GSE 0†game.
Obviously the Saints are playing good hockey and showed their capability dealing GSE their first loss.Some background on the on the “Saints 1 – GSE 0†game.
The score at the end of the game was 3-3.This is an incorrect interpretation of the CAHA rules, here’s why –
- Post-game, CAHA changed the game 1-0.
- CAHA’s logic is that
- The GSE coach had been ejected from the previous game vs. OC
- And was therefore not eligible to be on the bench for GSE’s next game vs the Saints
- Therefore, GSE takes the loss.
Action is to CAHA to explain the logic of their decision or to revert the score to 3-3
- When a ref ejects a coach from a game,
- Only if the ref also assesses an associated penalty, is the coach ineligible to be on the bench in the next game.
- In the OC game, the ref did not assess an associated penalty with the ejection
I watched the GSE 1/OC 1 game. GSE was assessed a penalty at the time the coach was ejected, to make it a 5 on 3 power play. I don't know what the penalty was or to whom it was assessed.Here is the Link for Silver Stick
Some of the GSE 1 players were very impressive in that game.
Anyone have any updates from Silver Stick in Vegas?
I watched the GSE 1/OC 1 game. GSE was assessed a penalty at the time the coach was ejected, to make it a 5 on 3 power play. I don't know what the penalty was or to whom it was assessed.You are correct, the two penalties were for -
Any updates from SCAHA games this weekend?Congratulations to SilverStick West Region Champions, LA Jr Kings1 who beat the SD Saints 4-1 in the Finals @ Las Vegas, NV SilverStick Qualifier on Dec 10, 2017.
Wait, Mike Bickley is/was the OCHC2 Coach? Great Coach and even nicer man!
Leaving or asked to leave SoCal Hockey after 10+ years?
Leaving or moving from Southen California?
Bickley is a great coach. "no shit approach." Not for the insecure or weak at heart. Great attention to detail
You must mean those soft, insecure and weak at heart 7-8 year old kids or their parent who think it inappropriate the scream in the face of young children because he (well, whatever it is that drives him to do that). Wonder how that technique works in K-8 education or the home? Bickley runs a good stick time and 3v3 but that is it.
I am glad someone said that and not just me. I heard that the Ducks out shot OC x 2 both games.
Also looks like the ducks1 and OC1 battled it out this weekend in Del Mar. Heard ducks won the championship game. Any thoughts as to why the ducks won?
Because they're a better team.
Gotta agree with Stick Tap. On this day the ducks were better than oc. Considering the score was 2-1 in both games can't really say the ducks were dominate in either game, but definitely earned the wins, coming back from 0-1 deficit in both games. Goalies from both teams played extremely well.I am glad someone said that and not just me. I heard that the Ducks out shot OC x 2 both games.
Also looks like the ducks1 and OC1 battled it out this weekend in Del Mar. Heard ducks won the championship game. Any thoughts as to why the ducks won?
Because they're a better team.
And Ducks 2 beat Ducks 1 crazy and unpredictable weekend
True, Bickley offers good value at his stick times and runs a good 3v3. I just question whether he is temperamentally fit to coach young players. As parents, most of us would never tolerate in the classroom the kind of behavior that some coaches exhibit. It is a lame excuse to imply that it is the kid's fault because they make a mistake playing a kid's game now often dominated by misfit adults. BTW, many of those mistakes are part or a learning process. What next on the list of gross rationalizations?
True, Bickley offers good value at his stick times and runs a good 3v3. I just question whether he is temperamentally fit to coach young players. As parents, most of us would never tolerate in the classroom the kind of behavior that some coaches exhibit. It is a lame excuse to imply that it is the kid's fault because they make a mistake playing a kid's game now often dominated by misfit adults. BTW, many of those mistakes are part or a learning process. What next on the list of gross rationalizations?
Most of us don't even know how he has lasted this long.
This board had been VERY quiet!!!! Heading into the last weekend, anyone making predictions? ???
A lot more would want to stay together and play at Squirt, and if you are so incredibly good, then get started on your AAA travels early and scrimmage teams that want to scrimmage you. When my son was a 2nd year Squirt the play up thing was in full swing, and of those parents I knew whose kids did it, not one said it was a good decision by the end of the season. There are more than a few parents around who can tell you they thought it actually hurt their kids development, because they were forced to battle uphill all year and change the way they played to try and minimize the downside of facing older kids.
I believe the flight system worked very well at the Midget level. It separated the A level teams from the AA level. There weren't dozens of 10-0 games.
Both flights where able to develop by playing teams of their own caliber. Most Midget parents I have spoken with thought it worked out rather well and far better than expected.
[size=78%] [/size]
I don't harbor any ill will personally to the Ducks2 parents, or the Kings2 for that matter. There are some nice folks there, and I understand that they are often just doing what the club tells them is the thing to do on their path to their AAA destiny. There's just nothing in it for my son, to play kids who are 2 years younger and 1/2 his size and watch him sit in the box because he knocked one of em down going for a puck. No offense, your kids play very well for their age, and I truly enjoyed watching that little Kings2 goalie stand on his head, but you should not be playing our mostly '05 team in my opinion.
It will be interesting next year to see how the old SS handle contact next year. They are a talented group of kids. But I remember playing them a few years ago that they were not too comfortable getting hit. Complain ing at every slight bump and diving is not going to fly next year. One advantage is that they will be playing AAA. Tends not to be as much contact. My opinion is that they wouldl struggle more with a skilled AA team than with a AAA team.
A lot more would want to stay together and play at Squirt, and if you are so incredibly good, then get started on your AAA travels early and scrimmage teams that want to scrimmage you. When my son was a 2nd year Squirt the play up thing was in full swing, and of those parents I knew whose kids did it, not one said it was a good decision by the end of the season. There are more than a few parents around who can tell you they thought it actually hurt their kids development, because they were forced to battle uphill all year and change the way they played to try and minimize the downside of facing older kids.
The '05 Ducks coached by Sandy did very well playing up as squirts in AA and made it to play downs. The Vachon, Jr Kings competed but missed the playoffs. I don't have a problem with either of those teams playing up. They would have schooled the squirt A division. But that is an argument we had on this board years ago.
Your team played the Kings 07 team 4 times. Came from one goal behind in the last 5 minutes to win 5-4. Won the 2nd one 6-4. TIED the 3rd one 4-4. Won the 4th in a blowout. 3 out of 4 games the 07's played your team very close. Good luck against GSE1 you are going to need it. I hope there is something in it for them.
If getting out shot 2-1 in just about every game is close, and spending shifts at a time having our kids cycle the puck in your zone is indicative of competitiveness, then you are right, those were very close games. I don't blame your team for this, but my observation of the officiating in these mismatch games is that it's inept and focused on protecting your kids. Half the penalties called on us weren't penalties. Our kids expect it and play the games accordingly, and get penalized anyways. In the 4-4 tie, I seem to recall that all your goals were on PP's or most of em.
When our core '05team plays your team, there is no real winning for us. If we win, well we are bigger/older/stronger and expected to win. If we lose or if it's "a close game" in your parlance, then we lose. It's lose/lose for us. If you were honest, you would acknowledge that the 6-4 game was in no way close. We controlled that game from start to finish and there was never a minute of it where the outcome was in question. The last game was a blow out to use your parlance. We soundly outplayed you in the first game, and barely escaped with a 5-4 win. Kuddos to your kids for making the most of their chances.
Just look at Ducks 2 in AA. Did not make playoffs but that should not have been the goal. If they played A or Flight 2 they would have been bored and unchallenged. That team was the definition of progress and development. That team was playing good hockey toward the end which will benefit them next year
Here is a good perspective about playing against older "kids"
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/juniors/usntdp-usa-hockey-set-to-dominate/ (http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/juniors/usntdp-usa-hockey-set-to-dominate/)
Here is a good perspective about playing against older "kids"
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/juniors/usntdp-usa-hockey-set-to-dominate/ (http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/juniors/usntdp-usa-hockey-set-to-dominate/)
Not the least bit comparable to Squirts and PWs playing up.
Here is a good perspective about playing against older "kids"
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/juniors/usntdp-usa-hockey-set-to-dominate/ (http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/juniors/usntdp-usa-hockey-set-to-dominate/)
If you have been flollowing along with this thread this week you might be interested to know that the the 07 Kings beat Valencia 5-4 this morning. Murphy's Law or something, I guess.
You know this feed's dead when no one's talking about playdowns. Any surprising results, comments, excuses?
So does anyone want to have fun predicting the top 4 teams for the season? Who will make it pass Labor Day?
My predictions for the top 4 So Cal teams based off of team declarations is (no particular order):
1. Bears
2. Ducks Kohn
3. Kings
4. Gulls
Love the Riley team, but they simply are not at the same level as the Shand team, which has many top PWA players, size, speed, age, and grit, and several players with AA experience. Riley Dogs did not take a step forward at Squirt A, and having watched the Eagles many times last season, the Dogs just aren't at the same level (unless they added in 4 or 5 PWA/AA studs). Would have loved to seen Riley Dogs at Carmen Starr, and frankly, would love to be proven wrong on this one. If anything, Riley Dogs remind me of PWA Wave 1 last year. The only potential wrinkle I see for Shand is the rumor that he rostered a ton of kids, and finding the right roles and playing time might be a challenge. I think Skates' comment about team chemistry may turn out to be prophetic about The Shand team. Don't know anything about the other Ice Dogs team. What does the roster look like? How did they play over Memorial Day?
"Somewhere in the middle" of AA will be a very tough place to be, as it probably means top of Flight B (with little chance of the playoffs) or bottom of Flight A, getting your hat handed to you every fourth weekend. Neither spot is a particularly good place for development.
What? Rostered a ton of kids? I can hear the parents now of the kids sitting the bench. That's sad, so while your kid sits the bench on your AA team, there is another kid playing A and getting lots of ice time that will surpass your kid at Bantam. Typical story.
Hmmm I guess Shand didn't want to share with Bickley. Bickley sure could use some kids. They do coach for the same club right? Geez. What a waste of money for the fouthliners on PW AA teams. I wonder if parents even know there is tons of kids on their team. That would make a difference for me when picking a team.
I think both ice dogs teams will be in the middle boarderline of the top bracket.
Three complete lines & three sets of D. Not sure if that constitutes "rostered a ton." Quick shifts and strong play for Shand and the boys will see plenty of ice time.
Didn't see how Bickley ended up. My observation would be that they drew players from different pools.
Love the Riley team, but they simply are not at the same level as the Shand team, which has many top PWA players, size, speed, age, and grit, and several players with AA experience. Riley Dogs did not take a step forward at Squirt A, and having watched the Eagles many times last season, the Dogs just aren't at the same level (unless they added in 4 or 5 PWA/AA studs). Would have loved to seen Riley Dogs at Carmen Starr, and frankly, would love to be proven wrong on this one. If anything, Riley Dogs remind me of PWA Wave 1 last year. The only potential wrinkle I see for Shand is the rumor that he rostered a ton of kids, and finding the right roles and playing time might be a challenge. I think Skates' comment about team chemistry may turn out to be prophetic about The Shand team. Don't know anything about the other Ice Dogs team. What does the roster look like? How did they play over Memorial Day?
"Somewhere in the middle" of AA will be a very tough place to be, as it probably means top of Flight B (with little chance of the playoffs) or bottom of Flight A, getting your hat handed to you every fourth weekend. Neither spot is a particularly good place for development.
What? Rostered a ton of kids? I can hear the parents now of the kids sitting the bench. That's sad, so while your kid sits the bench on your AA team, there is another kid playing A and getting lots of ice time that will surpass your kid at Bantam. Typical story.
Hmmm I guess Shand didn't want to share with Bickley. Bickley sure could use some kids. They do coach for the same club right? Geez. What a waste of money for the fouthliners on PW AA teams. I wonder if parents even know there is tons of kids on their team. That would make a difference for me when picking a team.
I think both ice dogs teams will be in the middle boarderline of the top bracket.
Three complete lines & three sets of D. Not sure if that constitutes "rostered a ton." Quick shifts and strong play for Shand and the boys will see plenty of ice time.
Didn't see how Bickley ended up. My observation would be that they drew players from different pools.
Final roster was 20 kids. Thats 4 complete lines with many parents upset come playdown time with their kids only getting 1 to 2 shifts a period, if that. Isn’t 20 kids rostered the limit?
Long time listener, first time caller here. There have certainly been a few posts regarding Coach Shand on this site, so I would like to add my 2 cents. My son is a Bantam this year, so I can't comment on what may or may not have happened on the PW AA team this year. My son has done individual lessons with Coach Shand for several years, and Coach Shand is fantastic in this capacity. He genuinely cares about the player's development and goes out of his way to suggest everything that can be done on the ice and off the ice to assist in that development. My son also played for Shand's Ontario Eagles in Pee Wee A last year, and it was the best experience he has had in 6+ years playing travel hockey. Coach Shand is a demanding coach, but he is fair and holds players accountable. If a player isn't putting in the effort or is playing selfishly, they won't get the same amount of ice time as those that are working hard and playing a team game. We had a team that was projected to finish somewhere around 10th-12th (perhaps optimistically as high as 8th) that wound up finishing 4th and losing the SCAHA final in OT. At season's end, we had a group of kids who had bonded into a fantastic team. They worked hard together on the ice and never gave up. It was a fantastic journey, and Coach Shand deserves a ton of credit as do the players who bought into his system and worked so hard week in and week out. My son developed more during that year than in any other year. Obviously, no coach is perfect, and your mileage may vary as you traverse the travel hockey landscape. What is a great fit for my son may not be for your son, and vice versa.
Love the Riley team, but they simply are not at the same level as the Shand team, which has many top PWA players, size, speed, age, and grit, and several players with AA experience. Riley Dogs did not take a step forward at Squirt A, and having watched the Eagles many times last season, the Dogs just aren't at the same level (unless they added in 4 or 5 PWA/AA studs). Would have loved to seen Riley Dogs at Carmen Starr, and frankly, would love to be proven wrong on this one. If anything, Riley Dogs remind me of PWA Wave 1 last year. The only potential wrinkle I see for Shand is the rumor that he rostered a ton of kids, and finding the right roles and playing time might be a challenge. I think Skates' comment about team chemistry may turn out to be prophetic about The Shand team. Don't know anything about the other Ice Dogs team. What does the roster look like? How did they play over Memorial Day?
"Somewhere in the middle" of AA will be a very tough place to be, as it probably means top of Flight B (with little chance of the playoffs) or bottom of Flight A, getting your hat handed to you every fourth weekend. Neither spot is a particularly good place for development.
What? Rostered a ton of kids? I can hear the parents now of the kids sitting the bench. That's sad, so while your kid sits the bench on your AA team, there is another kid playing A and getting lots of ice time that will surpass your kid at Bantam. Typical story.
Hmmm I guess Shand didn't want to share with Bickley. Bickley sure could use some kids. They do coach for the same club right? Geez. What a waste of money for the fouthliners on PW AA teams. I wonder if parents even know there is tons of kids on their team. That would make a difference for me when picking a team.
I think both ice dogs teams will be in the middle boarderline of the top bracket.
Three complete lines & three sets of D. Not sure if that constitutes "rostered a ton." Quick shifts and strong play for Shand and the boys will see plenty of ice time.
Didn't see how Bickley ended up. My observation would be that they drew players from different pools.
Final roster was 20 kids. Thats 4 complete lines with many parents upset come playdown time with their kids only getting 1 to 2 shifts a period, if that. Isn’t 20 kids rostered the limi
Shand's team might have been the 2nd or 3rd best in CAHA at the start of season and at Carmen Starr but it finished 7th at the end of the regular season and a tie for 7th and 8th at playdowns. At the heart of it, it was a strategy of winning over development with promising 12 year old boys and, in the end, the boys got neither.
There were other dysfunctions on the Shand team but recruitment and playing time strategy was the most basic.
Let me give you some insight, Shand’s team did okay at the Carmen Star tournament because he had few kids on there that made a difference but decided not to play for him during the season. They left and moved on to another team that is doing very well. Someone had previously said that because of the loss of players that some kids were picked up just for PDR numbers. I think he never had intentions of playing everyone equally except for his previous Eagle kids. But that’s just my opinion but seems to what have happened.
When learning is about making mistakes and learning from them, he has learned only that making mistakes is bad and cause to be blamed for team losses.
Long time listener, first time caller here. There have certainly been a few posts regarding Coach Shand on this site, so I would like to add my 2 cents. My son is a Bantam this year, so I can't comment on what may or may not have happened on the PW AA team this year. My son has done individual lessons with Coach Shand for several years, and Coach Shand is fantastic in this capacity. He genuinely cares about the player's development and goes out of his way to suggest everything that can be done on the ice and off the ice to assist in that development. My son also played for Shand's Ontario Eagles in Pee Wee A last year, and it was the best experience he has had in 6+ years playing travel hockey. Coach Shand is a demanding coach, but he is fair and holds players accountable. If a player isn't putting in the effort or is playing selfishly, they won't get the same amount of ice time as those that are working hard and playing a team game. We had a team that was projected to finish somewhere around 10th-12th (perhaps optimistically as high as 8th) that wound up finishing 4th and losing the SCAHA final in OT. At season's end, we had a group of kids who had bonded into a fantastic team. They worked hard together on the ice and never gave up. It was a fantastic journey, and Coach Shand deserves a ton of credit as do the players who bought into his system and worked so hard week in and week out. My son developed more during that year than in any other year. Obviously, no coach is perfect, and your mileage may vary as you traverse the travel hockey landscape. What is a great fit for my son may not be for your son, and vice versa.
Good perspective but incomplete. First, Coach Shand has developed over time some very good players on his PWAA team. Second, most coaches do a good to great job at sticktimes, which involve a narrow set of skills compared to coaching a team or teaching a team. For example, we have found Coach Bickley to be the best of many sticktime coaches out there but not an appropriate team coach for our son. Coach Shand may be similar but charged twice the rate as other options. Third, preseason projections are largely meaningless outside a few dominant clubs. Shand's PWAA team was not simply projected to be good; it demonstrated it in the pre and early season and declined steadily over the season. There are probably many reasons for that including the better development on other teams. Fourth, your point on "putting in effort" and "playing selfish" is just plain wrong. Some of the lower effort and more selfish players were favorites. "Fairness" is in the eyes of the beholder.
Happy that you and your son had a great experience with Coach Shand. We began the season very keen on him as a coach and still see some virtue on his coaching. Our son learned discipline and attentiveness to peripheral details and commitment to total effort in order to get ice time. He also learned how to deal with bounded rationale authority figures without buying into their emotion. That is an important life skill. As for his development as a hockey player, time will tell. At this point, the negative stuff outweighs the positive because it affected his confidence on the ice. When learning is about making mistakes and learning from them, he has learned only that making mistakes is bad and cause to be blamed for team losses.
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Actually Sophist, with all due respect, my perspective is accurate and complete from my perspective. That's the great thing about perspectives...we each have our own unique perspective. I offered it as another perspective on a different team coached by the same person who you criticized in an earlier post. You will note that I did not label any of your assertions as "wrong" or "incorrect" because my son didn't play on your son's team this season. Similarly, as your son did not play on my son's team last season, I don't see how you can weigh in on "projections" or whether or not kids "put in effort" by comparing your son's experience to my son's experience. It's apples and oranges. Obviously, you are dissatisfied with your son's experience this past season, and I'm sorry your son didn't have a great experience. I hope your son has a better experience next season.
This list is undoubtedly flawed and a simple first attempt to measure coaching performance. However, most if not all of the factors are observable and most could be measured. The goal was to move beyond parental perception. [size=78%]
[/size]Survey research on perceptions should play a role in an evaluation system. Teachers are evaluated, movies, restaurants and various services have a star rating system, corporations use 360 rating systems of their managers, and even a call to your bank will trigger an online survey about the customer's satisfaction with the bank's service. We evaluate just about everything but not hockey coaching although it is likely to be one of the most expensive and emotionally embedded services we purchase for our children. Accountability ought to play a role in the sport and applied to more than just the children themselves. [size=78%]
[/size]A combination of objective and subjective evaluations available to prospective parents before the “letter of intent†signing period in May or June would allow for more informed choices and less discontent at the end of the season. It might be preferable to the current BS system.[size=78%]
[/size]I'm not sure I understand or accept that a 80% or 90% satisfaction rate by customers is acceptable in customer driven or any businesses. But that is the rub, ice hockey is not a customer driven business in its governance, club management, and coaching.
This issue at hand is how we might evaluate ice hockey coaching. Some seem to thing it is just a matter of perception or perspective. If you kid is good and plays a lot, you love the coach; if you kid sucks, then it is the coach's fault. I think that data could be collected or created to evaluate youth coaches not that this will ever happen. Let's explore this question. This is not about Coach Shand who is a “love him†or “not†type coach. The larger issue how we might objectively measure the quality of hockey coaching.Since we're talking about 10-12 year olds, shouldn't the main factor be whether the kids enjoy playing for the coach? All the skill development. strategy and winning in the world won't make a bit of difference if your kid doesn't want to play because the coach is a jerk.
The factors of evaluation are divided into four categories: Team strategy and performance, player development, team culture, and role modeling for youth players.
Team or Season strategy
- How many players are rostered and why? Does a coach, like parents on signing day, take his chances with 3 lines and several keepers or approach recruitment of players like a box of chocolates? Take 20 and maybe find 15 or less he likes for big games at the end of the season.
The latter clearly seems more pragmatic in terms of wins and losses but probably weakens player development in terms of attention at practice or ice time during games.- How does the team performs over the course of a season. Does it win games early and then decline relative to its competition or does it steadily improve its relative rank through a season.
Expectations before the season are largely meaningless except perhaps for a few big clubs but early season performance compared to end of season performance is important.- Are lines rolled? When not rolled, does the team do better or worse?
- Is there a rational basis for playing some players more and other players less.
Player development
- How much focus in practice on skill and tactical development?
- How much time at practice is spend with the coach talking or sending players on penalty skates for messing up a drill (not planned skates for fitness).
Is the methodology teaching-by-talking or chalk boarding or teaching-by- doing with corrections made “on the fly,â€
7. How many players move on to the next level and, in particular outside the club​?
The Reign for example seems to argue that they are the true advocates of player development even though their teams generally suck. Few of their U-12 players move and especially outside the club. Placing kids at higher competitive levels is perhaps more important than W-L records although this is not a simple linear continuum.
Team Culture
- Is the team culture one of blame and scapegoating or one in which the coach assumed responsibility for mistakes and losses?
- Do long-time members of the team mimic or reflect the blame culture of the coach or accept responsibility for their own mistakes?
- What is the level of authoritarianism by a coach?
If the larger goal of parenting is the prepare our children to live responsibly in a free a free society, do we want them to learn to live with authoritarian behavior? It would be interesting to know how each coach scores on the Adorno F-scale for authoritarian personality.
11. To what extent does the coach encourage creativity (not selfishness) in their players? How does this manifest itself?
12 To what extent does playing time depend on paying a coach for private lessons? At or above the market rate?
Role Modeling
13 Does the coach reflect the values we would want our children to emulate or does coach direct profanity at referees, volunteer personnel at games?
14 Does the coach exhibit good sportsmanship in wins and losses?
15 How is the coach regarded by peers at the same competitive level?
In The Crease = Mrs. Shand :D
Kings 2 over Ducks 1 5-4 in an upsetYes, but Ducks 1 had much better skill development in the game.
In the crease:
You suggest that hockey is a meritocracy when that is often far from the truth. The level of hockey really has nothing to do with it at these ages when kids are supposed to be developing their skills and hockey acumen. There are plenty of ways for a kid to learn about the harsh realities of adult life, and plenty of time to do so. We are talking about adolescents here, not mini NHL journeymen.
Does a 3rd line parent pay a reduced fee? Does the coach come up at signing and tell you: "Hey your kid is going to be on the 3rd line all year and if we have a close game, they will play 2 shifts in the 3rd for approximately 1 minute." And for the record, we played OC1 several times this season, and when it was close I saw how much the 4 lines were rolled, which is to say, I saw the same kids out on back to back shifts.
I understand that when a game is on the line, a coach is often going to try and win the game. When it's a tournament championship or the playoffs, the stronger kids are going to play more. Kids that are completely outclassed may be sheltered, and for good reason.
My point is that a good coach spreads the coaching AND the game opportunity around. My kid has been in both situations on both types of teams. For all the shit talking that people on this board do about the prospects for their kids (and of course you have a much better idea when your kid is 16), the reality is that not all kids develop at the same time. Some mature earlier and others later. Nobody knows for certain what type of player they might be in 5 or 7 years, or the potential they might have to succeed at a higher level of hockey at the age of 12. Take for example, the story of Misty Copeland, who started Ballet at the age of 13, when most girls are well into their peak growth velocity period. Copeland would eventually become the principal dancer at the American Ballet Theater. Sweden discourages early specialization in sports, and has an incredible track record in the modern era, of developing some of the top NHL defenseman and Goalies, not to mention a long list of quality forwards, when the entire country has a population of 9 million.
One thing's for sure, and that is this: if a kid has lost the desire to play the sport, it doesn't matter what their potential might be.
Kids aren't stupid, and they know when coaches don't like them, or value them, or see their potential. It's human nature that coaches have favorites, but a really good coach will hide their biases better than a bad one, and if you spend any significant time watching practices and games, you should know whether your coaches are investing their time and attention on your child in a way that justifies your expenditure of time and money.
Race to no where - Much better skill development? Were they working on their cherry picking skills? Unfortunately those didn't work so well for them. Kings even played down a guy and the lines were all mixed up. How bad could it have been? I'd be worried if I were the Ducks. Expected a lot more from an all 05 team.It's well known that pwaa flight 1 teams work on skill development when they play flight 2 teams and don't care about the score. I think even BobbyOrr#4 will confirm this. I don't even think that flight 1 versus flight 2 games count in MyHockey rankings. And if it doesn't affect your ranking, why would you possibly care about the score?
ouch! :'( Stupidville? You must be French. Is that near Kraft HockeyVille?Kings 2 over Ducks 1 5-4 in an upsetYes, but Ducks 1 had much better skill development in the game.
I thought this was a pretty good joke until I saw this...Race to no where - Much better skill development? Were they working on their cherry picking skills? Unfortunately those didn't work so well for them. Kings even played down a guy and the lines were all mixed up. How bad could it have been? I'd be worried if I were the Ducks. Expected a lot more from an all 05 team.It's well known that pwaa flight 1 teams work on skill development when they play flight 2 teams and don't care about the score. I think even BobbyOrr#4 will confirm this. I don't even think that flight 1 versus flight 2 games count in MyHockey rankings. And if it doesn't affect your ranking, why would you possibly care about the score?
Now I think you're winning the Race to Stupidville.
Obviously In the Crease is happy with their decision last season. I don’t think anyone is doubting that...
On the contrary, parents were “promised†development at the beginning part of the season which included ice time. Not only by coaches by but the club because of the percentages needed to meet PDR. This was part of the recruitment process or shall I say marketing pitch, in order for the AA team OC wanted to run in addition to a another AA team that had at most a few AA caliber players. There were kids who played on OC 2 that were returning to OC but decided not to play for the coach which made the PDR requirement that much more of an issue for OC1. That resulted in recruiting players that would never had been selected to play had the PDR been met, but parents who did ask realistic questions about play time (as In the Crease suggested), were given empty answers. Most parents on OC were told, your kid will improve so much when pushed by the coach as well as playing more skilled and faster teams...Every parent on the team knows that but there are loyalists who’s kids are the “favorites†so turn a blind eye. After all, their kid gets to play and couldn’t be happier. What they forget is, without those kids, OC 1 would not have been able to play AA. The argument becomes, no wonder why kid-A gets 1 min of ice time a game because he doesn’t have the talent or skill to play more, but how would he develop if never given the chance during real play? Not to mention the coach pulling his favorites during the intermission and leaving the other 60% to hear “chalk talk†from an assistant coach.
We all know hockey in CA requires a pocketbook that can include extra lessons and stick times and those who work hard grow in the sport. However, those same 1 min kids are also putting in the extra effort but not given the chance to use or even develop their skills without play. Did the favorites get punished or benched when a goal was scored when they were on the ice or took a lazy/stupid penalty? Shame on those parents who tried to have discussions with the coach and manager about issues brought forth and questions about how to encourage their child to show improvement that could result in more play time because that is what in-house levels are for and not 12Y/o hockey tier hockey. 🙄Clearly the loyalists suggest deal with what you signed up for and move on next year...
Lastly, how did that work out for OC by the way? Did the favorites come through when it mattered? The score sheets show that answer...
I doubt the Ducks 1 have anything to fret about. I was told 5 top kids didn't show, Kings coach moved game from NHL rink to 1/2 sheet Pond at least minute, advantage little guys. Gave NHL rink to Beer league. Heard the Ducks just shot pucks, no body play at all, let the little guys run under their legs. Lets see how CAHA sorts out
I doubt the Ducks 1 have anything to fret about. I was told 5 top kids didn't show, Kings coach moved game from NHL rink to 1/2 sheet Pond at least minute, advantage little guys. Gave NHL rink to Beer league. Heard the Ducks just shot pucks, no body play at all, let the little guys run under their legs. Lets see how CAHA sorts out
Wrong. Game was always scheduled on the pond that is the jk2's regular thursday practice slot. The ice was the same size for both teams, not sure why that gives a smaller team an advantage. And 7 of their top 8 point getters were there according to their roster and caha stats. Unless you meant something else when you used the phrase "didn't show."
[/quote. Did you check the corsi ratings at the pond of the ducks players that didn’t show?
Congrats to the Bears for winning CAHA Championship...they beat the #1, 2 and 3 regular season teams to get there. So, no one can say they didn't earn that banner. Solid team with a lot of fire power, they find a new #1 goalie (current is a 07) they will be a force next year.
If the Bears field 2 Bantam AA teams, that would be a change from their approach in years past for the '04 & '05 age groups. They typically have had a Bantam AA that is mostly 2nd year, and a Bantam A hybrid team. It would be a real change of direction for those birth years, although they obviously now have the credibility of a banner.Welcome to the flight system!
So the Bears are planning on 2 Bantam AA teams next season?Will this be similar to how they planned on 2 PeeWee AA teams this season? :-X
All depends on who shows as they say! But at least their is a core that's committed to the program, so we'll see! ;)So the Bears are planning on 2 Bantam AA teams next season?Will this be similar to how they planned on 2 PeeWee AA teams this season? :-X
BTW, they also had an 05 goalie on the PWA team who played half the games.
All depends on who shows as they say! But at least their is a core that's committed to the program, so we'll see! ;)So the Bears are planning on 2 Bantam AA teams next season?Will this be similar to how they planned on 2 PeeWee AA teams this season? :-X
BTW, they also had an 05 goalie on the PWA team who played half the games.
Really, didn't look like it!All depends on who shows as they say! But at least their is a core that's committed to the program, so we'll see! ;)So the Bears are planning on 2 Bantam AA teams next season?Will this be similar to how they planned on 2 PeeWee AA teams this season? :-X
BTW, they also had an 05 goalie on the PWA team who played half the games.
Unfortunately, players commit to the program, but the program doesn’t always reciprocate. Will the new PWAA coach be working with 06’s and 07’s this spring or will he be in China with kids that have aged out, limiting his teaching of said program to those who might be playing for him in the fall?
Why isnt the fact the Bears might not have a home rink in a year or two part of this conversation? Has it been worked out or still up in the air? The Bears best successes have been when kids & coaches commit to each other for the long term...if the rink is questionable I would think that would weigh heavily on any 12U and under kid looking to come back or even stay.
So does anybody know if CAHA is going to continue next season with the ridiculous 2 flight system? Since they don’t want to seem to post their meeting minutes, does anybody know? By the way CAHA board is breaking the law by not posting their minutes timely, but go figure what’s new!
I think a question across all levels for parents is how to judge the depth of talent within a club. Most clubs are planning on a flight 1 and a flight 2 team regardless of ability. Will a club take 15 players for a flight 1 team or are they going with 18? It impacts the minor team and can impact your player's playing time on a major or minor team. With 21 - 25 teams at tier II at most levels, numerous teams will get dropped if CAHA stays the course with the 16 team limit. This will once again make the jamboree important with many teams skating all summer. But staying the course is not necessarily something that CAHA typically does. I expect this to get tweaked in some way.....please say this is in jest......
I think a question across all levels for parents is how to judge the depth of talent within a club. Most clubs are planning on a flight 1 and a flight 2 team regardless of ability. Will a club take 15 players for a flight 1 team or are they going with 18? It impacts the minor team and can impact your player's playing time on a major or minor team. With 21 - 25 teams at tier II at most levels, numerous teams will get dropped if CAHA stays the course with the 16 team limit. This will once again make the jamboree important with many teams skating all summer. But staying the course is not necessarily something that CAHA typically does. I expect this to get tweaked in some way.....please say this is in jest......
...."once again make jamboree important..."
LOL !!