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Hockey Discussions => Bantam Hockey => Topic started by: Xfactor_56 on May 13, 2016, 07:59:48 AM
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Good luck to all the players and teams with tryouts this weekend!
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I have noticed a trend in Northern CA where most of the talented kids playing AAA, are heading off to brighter places like the Midwest and even SoCal at the bantam level. Case in point: no 15AAA, 14AAA and a piece meal 16AAA in T1 Elite in 2016. (yes there is GSE 15s but they are 1 line). As a new parent looking to tier and beyond, the Jr Sharks are pretty much the only option for T1 Elite exposure unless one wants to go the AA route with SCA or GSE and take chances with CAHA weekend exposure and maybe a decent tourney here or there. What is crazy is that I can think of 2 maybe 3 recent birth years where if the talent would have stayed local and rallied behind one team, there might have been a strong case for a semi-legitimate tier 1 team (a strong tier 2 team for sure) but again the best leave. There are numbers—we have seen it: 4+ house teams, A/B teams, AA and AAA teams from the SJ alone (not to mention TV, SCA, VV, and other “big†local clubs.) per age group and still we have a sub par product. What is it: the coaching/development, the quality of athletes entering the sport, the true numbers, the finances, lack of ice...???? Sad fact is I don’t foresee the scenario that if your kid has W, O, Q, USHL, NAHL, or even SSM or NE prep in their future that he can stay in a Norcal club! It’s Detroit, MN, or possibly LA for proper exposure and development at bantam major. Somebody… sell us on Norcal youth hockey and maybe California hockey for that matter, and a reason to stay if you have talent…
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If your kid is that good he will be noticed. And will be contacted.
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No one wants to play with a losing team!!!! No scouts are watching teams that are losing big 19-0 like the Jr. Sharks 03 vs Jr Kings 03. Those are Mites and Squirt type of scores. Coaching and culture has to be a big part of it.
GSE North PeeWee team had some quality kids. I think they won states also and the AA division was dominate by Norcal teams last year. Why are those kids not going to SJ to play AAA? From what heard that GSE coach and the one from Stockton are one of the most qualify coaches. It sounds like up north the quality kids & coaches are spread out.
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Certainly a smaller pool of players, and as a transplant from SoCal to NoCal it certainly feels much more spread out.
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Smaller pool of players is not the issue.
We heard this from mutiiple NorCal parents that Players that are AAA caliper rather play AA elsewhere in the Bay Area and SJ AAA players with any talent eventually leaves.
Losing will eventually get to you.
11AAA. Last place
12 AAA 2nd to last place
13 AAA 2nd to last place
14 AAA 2nd to last place
16 AAA (2) last place
16 AAA (1) 5th place of 10 teams.
"Winning is FUN"
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Something like 60% of the state's population is in SoCal. While it isn't the only factor to the issues you are describing, it is a factor. Less talent to pull from in a state where hockey isn't really a major sport.
The GSE North PW-AA team was solid last year. But, if you live in the outer areas (Roseville/Stockton/Tahoe for example) commuting to SJ for AAA may not be feasible, and as you pointed out, their teams haven't been enjoying a lot of recent success - so why go through all that.
So is your question/issue with the JR Sharks program?
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Many people are disenchanted with the Jr. Sharks program. That is the one program in NorCal that would have the ability to attract and retain the region's best talent. A number of the best players from NorCal now play in SoCal, or in the Midwest. As a result, there are no AAA teams in NorCal in a couple of age groups, or less competitive teams.
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Handboni,
It sounds like Flow is trying to justify playing in SJ and not moving elsewhere. You stated that the kids are leaving. Isn’t that alone a clue that something might be wrong? Why would someone send their kids away if everything was Ok? It sounds like they aren’t even trying to make it better.
There is always an excuse, Could of, Should of, Would of. Stop making excuses.
It’s sad but great for Socal hockey that we get their top players. If they provided a top notch and competitive program the kids wouldn’t leave.
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Exactly my point.
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The way it is currently, Jr Sharks are basically granted monopoly on AAA hockey in N. Cal. The same can be said about Gulls in San Diego. The system is expecting these clubs to do the right things and put together competitive teams for the benefit of player development. Time will tell if this is just wishful thinking.
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Smaller pool of players is not the issue.
We heard this from mutiiple NorCal parents that Players that are AAA caliper rather play AA elsewhere in the Bay Area and SJ AAA players with any talent eventually leaves.
Losing will eventually get to you.
11AAA. Last place
12 AAA 2nd to last place
13 AAA 2nd to last place
14 AAA 2nd to last place
16 AAA (2) last place
16 AAA (1) 5th place of 10 teams.
"Winning is FUN"
Actually, Jr. Sharks 16AAA (1) team was third at end of regular season, but they had a bye to Nationals so they didn't play States or District. Other teams ended up playing more games and getting more points, and now they're listed ahead of Jr. Sharks on CAHA site.
Regardless, some talented kids just don't want to play there or the parents don't want to fight the traffic, so NorCal talent gets spread out, and top AAA guys still leave. Wish it was different, and I don't have a solution, but it's a fact - just can't see NorCal AAA teams consistently beating SoCal at Mid 16 and below. at least not any time soon.
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Since Jr Sharks, Ducks, and Kings are now guaranteed of being allowed to field AAA teams, what incentive do they have to improve?
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Longtime lurker. First post. Transplant to Norcal. 1 kid playing for Jr Sharks for a few years, not a bantam so too soon to say what the hockey future holds for the boy.
Reality Check nails it: if your kid is that good, he’ll get noticed. Wherever he is.
Lots of kids are good players, but the one who can make a career out of it will be the self-motivated one who practices, practices, practices all on their own without dad making spreadsheets or cramming extra lessons. You know the kid: always at sticktime/Gretzky running his own circuit. This kid gets along with coaches and teammates, doesn’t rest on his superior laurels, and understands that there is always a next level. He has to be lucky, uninjured, and hopefully dad doesn’t screw it up for him. So that describes the tiny percent of kids where the discussion of leaving Norcal even matters at all.
Population demographics and geography/infrastructure play a huge role in the AAA struggle for Norcal. The pool of players actually is pretty small, and they are spread out. Norcal is isolated, and the roads are jammed. Despite Silicon Valley, plenty of people aren’t swimming in extra $ to drop on sports. A lot of families do make the trek to SJ for the Sharks, but for several it is simply impossible with traffic patterns. There are probably a few AAA caliber players at each birth year up northwards in Santa Rosa/Vacaville/Roseville, and another few eastwards in Stockton/Tahoe/Fresno. Those families thank their lucky stars that they have proven sires like LC and DE to guide their kids. Driving 2hrs+ for practice in SJ is out of the question, but they have great coaching closer to home, even if they don’t have enough other talented kids around to form AAA teams. They do what they can, and those guys help their kids get where they eventually need to be. But for those families within an hour drive to SJ, other factors must come into play.
The Jr Sharks seem to take a lot of heat here. I’m not sure why. There may be the assumption that because they are NHL club affiliated, they should automatically be world class at the top of the charts. Give ‘em a break. They are working on it. Hockey is a growing sport in the bay area, but it isn’t huge yet. If the big boy Sharks manage to pull off a cup this year, we can expect an explosion of 07/08/09/10 kids to pick up sticks. Let’s also give the program some credit: there was a big shakeup in the Tier coaching for this coming year. The coaches and administrators are approachable. Biannual surveys, public hockey council meetings, and an open-door policy to speak your mind to the administration allows anyone with ideas to be heard. Is it perfect? Of course not. But what is? I’d imagine personalities and intrigues of parents and coaches are a big factor for those who decide they can’t abide the Jr Sharks for AAA. If there are parents on here who have spoken up and been denied assistance for their kid, that would be interesting. I plan to keep my kid in the program as long as he’s happy. Every year has improved a bit. However, the factors that will determine whether or not the boy Makes it Big in hockey are not ones that depend on the club or any one specific coach. They are either within him or they aren’t.
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You still didn’t answer the root question: “Flow†asked why are the kids leaving? Is it coaching or culture? Are you telling us that people rather move than to drive 1 ½ to practice? Even if they were to move to SoCal, you really think that the traffic is that much better here.
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Oh hello... I thought you might jump in here again with that axe of yours to grind. You seem to pretty interested in Norcal, but curiously negative. Perhaps it is your backyard?
I'm not sure Flow is expecting anyone to tell him exactly why any particular player has left. I couldn't say why anyway, my kid is a bit younger. If it was coaching/culture, well, the Jr Sharks have mixed it up a bit with some new Tier coaches and the prevailing culture for this coming season feels disciplined. The Jr Sharks is still developing as a program -- and shouldn't ever stop developing -- and it will take strong players and their parents choosing to be a part of it in order for it to reach potential. However, when we talk about culture, we should also talk about home culture. The player and his parents have personal cultures that need to mesh with a team and the coach. My point is that if your kid is truly special they can still reach their goals from Norcal.
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Over the last, say 3 years, how many AAA level players have left NoCal? How does that number compare to SoCal?
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Whether it is the right approach or not, I would say the general strategy that many top AAA Norcal players have been aiming for is:
Play in Norcal through Peewees and Bantams (AAA or AA)
Play in Socal AAA at some point during Bantams or Midgets (Socal teams are quite accommodating for Norcal kids in terms of practices and such)
Try to get selected to prep school for high school or a top AAA team for Midgets in mid west.
Get enough exposure to get drafted to juniors and eventually D1.
It is a ridiculously long circuitous journey, and you are probably going to be in your mid 20's when you graduate with your bachelor's degree, so you have to question whether it is really worth it. But, I know a fair number of families are trying it this way. It's kind of a contagious thing. Perhaps if very few kids end up in D1, then this pattern will go away.
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http://www.usahockeyntdp.com/news_article/show/654891?referral=rss&referrer_id=666974 (http://www.usahockeyntdp.com/news_article/show/654891?referral=rss&referrer_id=666974)
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Yes, from Oakland, CA (so to speak) to Oakland, MI to get serious about hockey.
Here's a story in 2014 about another great Norcal player, Robby Jackson. The opening paragraph pretty much describes the script currently in vogue:
"NorCal Kid Robby Jackson Makes Impressive USHL Debut
As Robby Jackson rapidly developed his hockey skills in northern California, it became clear that one day he was going to need to leave home to fully reach his potential.
Jackson has hurried that process along, taking steps each of the last three seasons to arrive, at 16, as one of the top young players in the United States Hockey League.
Two seasons ago, parents Bob and Chris Jackson began commuting to southern California on weekends to take then-14-year-old Robby to play for the Los Angeles Selects Bantam AAA team.
Last season, Robby moved in with a teammate’s family during the season to play with the Los Angeles Junior Kings. His performance there led to the Chicago Steel selecting him in the USHL Draft. Jackson moved to the Midwest this season to play with the Steel in the top junior hockey league in the nation.
“We kind of knew playing hockey in California that if I wanted to pursue it seriously, eventually I would have to move away from home,†Jackson said. “I think 15 years old, my parents didn’t expect it to happen that young and, to be honest, neither did I.â€
..."
http://www.usahockey.com/news_article/show/378133?referrer_id=752796 (http://www.usahockey.com/news_article/show/378133?referrer_id=752796)
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"It is a ridiculously long circuitous journey, and you are probably going to be in your mid 20's when you graduate with your bachelor's degree, so you have to question whether it is really worth it. But, I know a fair number of families are trying it this way. It's kind of a contagious thing. Perhaps if very few kids end up in D1, then this pattern will go away."
That's right - except none of the people who have played or still playing at that level are there through that "circuitous journey" just to get their bachelor degree in mid 20s. They may deny it, but they are all there chasing "the dream". And you are right if that dream is not realized (and in many cases even if is) it's absolutely not worth it :). However not going to socal and midwest at certain points of the career does not make it less circuitous and worth it. It's just the reality of CA hockey. Unless you make it - it's not worth it :).
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"Reality Check nails it: if your kid is that good, he’ll get noticed. Wherever he is. "
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-He may get noticed. Then he will get noticed by socal coaches, explained why he needs to go down there if he didn't get that by then by himself and then after a season or two there he may move on further.
------------------------------Lots of kids are good players, but the one who can make a career out of it will be the self-motivated one who practices, practices, practices all on their own without dad making spreadsheets or cramming extra lessons. You know the kid: always at sticktime/Gretzky running his own circuit. This kid gets along with coaches and teammates, doesn’t rest on his superior laurels, and understands that there is always a next level. He has to be lucky, uninjured, and hopefully dad doesn’t screw it up for him. So that describes the tiny percent of kids where the discussion of leaving Norcal even matters at all.
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-Oh yeah - I know that kid ;) - in my years around the rinks and I have been and still am around a lot of them I have yet to see one kid like that. I don't know - may be Gretzky - seriously doubt it. Kids who go to the rinks by themselves a lot of times have no idea what they are doing there. In the best case scenario (because in that case that's what makes them better the most) they try to play 3x3 hockey until some prick from reception jumps out and makes them stop because it's against the rules. No kid will come to the rink by himself every day these days. Too many distractions. Other cases: parents bring them to the rink, pay for a trainer etc. The kids who left norcal did so either because they were brought to the rink by parents, motivated by parents, paid for lessons by parents and also perhaps participated in other sports to which they were brought by parents and motivated by......
If you intend to argue with this let me tell you - you are pretty far from "in the know" :) . Absolutely no offense intended
Population demographics and geography/infrastructure play a huge role in the AAA struggle for Norcal. The pool of players actually is pretty small, and they are spread out. Norcal is isolated, and the roads are jammed. Despite Silicon Valley, plenty of people aren’t swimming in extra $ to drop on sports. A lot of families do make the trek to SJ for the Sharks, but for several it is simply impossible with traffic patterns. There are probably a few AAA caliber players at each birth year up northwards in Santa Rosa/Vacaville/Roseville, and another few eastwards in Stockton/Tahoe/Fresno. Those families thank their lucky stars that they have proven sires like LC and DE to guide their kids. Driving 2hrs+ for practice in SJ is out of the question, but they have great coaching closer to home, even if they don’t have enough other talented kids around to form AAA teams. They do what they can, and those guys help their kids get where they eventually need to be. But for those families within an hour drive to SJ, other factors must come into play.---------------------------------------------------------[ctc]The only people in norcal who "can afford it" tend to converge to sharks sooner rather than later. The reality is socal hockey parent crowd seems to be more affluent and willing to pay for additional development - read extra ice time and lessons. Driving to SJ is not a problem if there was value in it. Unfortunately SJ provides a very mediocre product at AAA level for a lot more money than norcal AA as a whole. The difference is hard to justify. SJ does no recruiting whatsoever enjoying the fact that they are the only AAA game in Bay Area. To the point that GSE is not even trying to compete with them. They would rather take up this AA niche and rightfully so. The result is the marginal AAA players who otherwise would have to go to sharks realize the low value and go to GSE. AAA is left with one line at best. AA becomes stronger comparatively to socal AA (where the competition even though limited lately creates a race between the AAA programs), hence the GSE success at AA level. "The Jr Sharks seem to take a lot of heat here. I’m not sure why. There may be the assumption that because they are NHL club affiliated, they should automatically be world class at the top of the charts. Give ‘em a break. They are working on it. Hockey is a growing sport in the bay area, but it isn’t huge yet. If the big boy Sharks manage to pull off a cup this year, we can expect an explosion of 07/08/09/10 kids to pick up sticks. Let’s also give the program some credit: there was a big shakeup in the Tier coaching for this coming year. The coaches and administrators are approachable. Biannual surveys, public hockey council meetings, and an open-door policy to speak your mind to the administration allows anyone with ideas to be heard. Is it perfect? Of course not. But what is? I’d imagine personalities and intrigues of parents and coaches are a big factor for those who decide they can’t abide the Jr Sharks for AAA. If there are parents on here who have spoken up and been denied assistance for their kid, that would be interesting. I plan to keep my kid in the program as long as he’s happy. Every year has improved a bit. However, the factors that will determine whether or not the boy Makes it Big in hockey are not ones that depend on the club or any one specific coach. They are either within him or they aren’t."-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Well that's exactly the sharks' position - rely on numbers. They do not believe in and do not motivate their coaches. There is zero competition among them/coaches for the talent. As long as the program generates the profit they are fine. As to the factors that affect whether your boy makes it or not - they all do matter. All to a different degree. Some are more important some are less. Coaches are supposed to be one of the main motivators and contributors to development. With norcal sharks culture they are not. But your position above is understandable - take it easy - no sweat. The only thing that makes me a bit unsure of that is the fact that you read and write here :) .
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"My point is that if your kid is truly special they can still reach their goals from Norcal."
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[ctc] Anybody that comes to mind who made it anywhere purely from norcal?
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Sorry for trolling in Bantam AAA but my son is still in 8th grade...graduates in 2 weeks and knows a hell of alot of 02s.
Don't know much about the Jr. Sharks or Eagles actually, but I do know that this article appeared this week on the NHL Website about a San Jose Sharks player, a former Jr. Sharks player!:
https://www.nhl.com/news/matt-tennyson-is-first-of-jr-sharks-to-play-for-san-jose/c-280907136
And in reading the Article, it is apparent to me that it really doesn't matter what youth program an athlete comes from...that professional road is so far off that it is absurd to compare Eagles, Jr. Sharks, Jr. Kings, Jr. Ducks at any youth level...etc. And it also appears to me that by the time some kid makes an NHL debut (or almost a NHL Stanley Cup debut), barely anybody left in youth hockey even remembers him...
So enjoy the ride...to me, my son is still having a blast...moving into Midget hockey now though he will always be a Mite in my mind!!!
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I don't have much to add to the NorCal, SoCal discussion but I did take note of the idea the a kid must be in love with the game and practice endlessly on his own desire. I wonder if their are any other careers that would be identified that way. Never inspire or push or kid in math, science or history: Let their love direct their study habits and test results. Probably not.
I don't think a parent should be investing their own dreams and desires into their sons but once a player has expressed a desire to play high level hockey they will need some pushing and prodding at times. I always wanted my own business and have had one for many years but there are days when I do not feel like springing out of bed and rushing into the office at 5:30 am.
My son says he wants to play college hockey and I take him at that. There I times when he is not at his best that I give him my opinion. Sometimes outside dryland is not appealing when it is 95 degrees out. Usually it is enough to tell him that if he wants what he says he wants this is what is required. There are lots of other players that will want the same position he is looking for. Should he have a change of heart and want to become a CPA so be it. Until he does I will remind him of the exceptionally hard work it takes to be a high level player. I think love of the game is important, but not enough.
It might also be noted that the myth that Gretzky was all self motivation and played endlessly of his own volition is not true. His father was a Jr player and pushed Wayne very hard. Often to the complaint of other parents.
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"[size=0px]My son says he wants to play college hockey and I take him at that. There I times when he is not at his best that I give him my opinion. Sometimes outside dryland is not appealing when it is 95 degrees out. Usually it is enough to tell him that if he wants what he says he wants this is what is required. There are lots of other players that will want the same position he is looking for. Should he have a change of heart and want to become a CPA so be it. Until he does I will remind him of the exceptionally hard work it takes to be a high level player. I think love of the game is important, but not enough.[/size][/size][size=0px]It might also be noted that the myth that Gretzky was all self motivation and played endlessly of his own volition is not true. His father was a Jr player and pushed Wayne very hard. Often to the complaint of other parents."
[/size]You are right. That's exactly my point. When i think of it i can probably come up with more examples of "there is a great "motivator/dad/family" behind every kid who made it" than so called "self-motivated one who practices, practices, practices all on their own without dad making spreadsheets or cramming extra lessons". In fact - I can't come up with a single one of the later.
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"And in reading the Article, it is apparent to me that it really doesn't matter what youth program an athlete comes from...that professional road is so far off that it is absurd to compare Eagles, Jr. Sharks, Jr. Kings, Jr. Ducks at any youth level...etc. And it also appears to me that by the time some kid makes an NHL debut (or almost a NHL Stanley Cup debut), barely anybody left in youth hockey even remembers him..."
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Yeah, you are right - so does a man - lives, lives and then dies :)
It's just while you are in youth hockey - you have power to choose (that may or may not affect your final destination, but will certainly affect you along the way), while if you make it to professionals you almost don't anymore.
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Such great dialogue.
I would agree that positive, encouraging support from parents/mentors is critical for all young people in sports or academics or just about anything. Of course. Reminding a kid that he needs to work hard to meet his goals is reasonable and normal. When the support tilts to the overbearing though, well it makes a lot more sense to pressure a kid with flagging personal drive on schoolwork than it does for sports. But if sports is your poison, make sure the father-son relationship survives with love and respect intact. I would also stay with thought that because of the scarcity of jobs in pro hockey, if a kid isn't exceptionally self-motivated, maybe it is just something he enjoys an awful lot but it is not a realistic adult career choice.
There is a lot of passion here. If it could be harnessed in a positive way, just imagine the possibilities. I'm not sure how it is in Scaha, but there are youth hockey boards up here in Norcal that hold elections for vacant seats every year. They'd be sure to welcome help from a heavily invested, constructive, thoughtful individual with good ideas. The process of working with others might be challenging, but ultimately worthwhile.
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Oh hello... I thought you might jump in here again with that axe of yours to grind. You seem to pretty interested in Norcal, but curiously negative. Perhaps it is your backyard?
I'm not sure Flow is expecting anyone to tell him exactly why any particular player has left. I couldn't say why anyway, my kid is a bit younger. If it was coaching/culture, well, the Jr Sharks have mixed it up a bit with some new Tier coaches and the prevailing culture for this coming season feels disciplined. The Jr Sharks is still developing as a program -- and shouldn't ever stop developing -- and it will take strong players and their parents choosing to be a part of it in order for it to reach potential. However, when we talk about culture, we should also talk about home culture. The player and his parents have personal cultures that need to mesh with a team and the coach. My point is that if your kid is truly special they can still reach their goals from Norcal.
We are new to CA hockey. Haven't really understood why kids have left Nor Cal to play in So Cal. We see a couple have made an exceptional effort to become part of Jr Kings, and particularly Jr Ducks. Seems like that is a lot of extra $$ to do that. They still have to deal with a bunch of politics surrounding the Jr Kings for sure, and Jr Ducks.
I have seen my son struggle to get his first coaches to believe in him. He lost ice time to a core group of kids, not because they were better, just because coach had his favorites. This disheartened him, but gained faith as he was noticed by others at various Prospect camps. Got invites to other big tournaments and events.
I guess this goes to the thought of, if the kid is good, he will get noticed. The hard part for parents, is to help the kid navigate the landscape here. I feel the clubs need to work on really working with the kids and develop strong clubs to further the positive views toward CA hockey.
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1hockeydad- Where did your son end up this season? It can be challenging figuring out the options as everyone has a different perception of what they want for their future Gretzky! In the Kings world you have the 03 "Superteam" which is playing in the Major division this year... lots of travel costs as is the case with all the Major teams. The Minor teams normally don't bust the bank in travel costs.
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Heard that 02 Gulls AAA got rid of coach for missing first game. That was a strong team. Seems a bit of over reaction?
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Heard that 02 Gulls AAA got rid of coach for missing first game. That was a strong team. Seems a bit of over reaction?
Guarantee missing the game was just the straw that broke the camel's back. I'm sure this was building up. His demeanor during games was not well regarded.
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..That was a strong team...
Still is...
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..That was a strong team...
Still is...
Very True!
Guess coach was also coaching college team in the area and club not interested in sharing his time.
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..That was a strong team...
Still is...
Didn't they get beat in state finals last year something like 9 to 1?
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That should have been a one goal game either way. (look at the earlier game in the playoffs or any other from the season vs. the ducks for reference). However, the ref at Lakewood tosses the Gulls starting goalie (suspends him for a month, which got appealed down to time served as the committee probably saw the video) for a blocker sandwich after a scrum in his crease. It should have been a roughing at most. Quality reffing. State final no less.
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What is the current selection process for qualifying for Districts at Bantam Major? Is it just the CAHA state champ or does the runner up get an invite as well?
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runner up?? or first loser?!
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What is the current selection process for qualifying for Districts at Bantam Major? Is it just the CAHA state champ or does the runner up get an invite as well?
Yes, runner-up goes as well. Or as previously mentioned "First Loser".
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Considering Kings have 2 of 3 teams in Major, I'm going to go out on limb and predict Kings will have one of those spots!
On the Minor side- Ducks take the finals.
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That should have been a one goal game either way. (look at the earlier game in the playoffs or any other from the season vs. the ducks for reference). However, the ref at Lakewood tosses the Gulls starting goalie (suspends him for a month, which got appealed down to time served as the committee probably saw the video) for a blocker sandwich after a scrum in his crease. It should have been a roughing at most. Quality reffing. State final no less.
Should have, would have, could have. Just found out score was 5-1 when starting goalie got tossed.
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In major I take ducks 02 over kings 03 and gulls in 3rd
In minor it should be ducks 03 over sharks 03, gulls have no chance
Considering Kings have 2 of 3 teams in Major, I'm going to go out on limb and predict Kings will have one of those spots!
On the Minor side- Ducks take the finals.
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What is the current selection process for qualifying for Districts at Bantam Major? Is it just the CAHA state champ or does the runner up get an invite as well?
Yes, runner-up goes as well. Or as previously mentioned "First Loser".
Last year in Bantam Major, Kings, Ducks, Sharks and Gulls all made it to Pacific District. Of course, they were the only teams in the entire tournament! The only CAHA team left out of Pacific District was GSE, who finished in 4th place at states. Kings did not play in states and got the automatic bid since they hosted districts at TSC (for Bantam, 16's and 18's).
I initially suspected all those CAHA teams were invited because nobody else came, and it was local. However, in 16's, there were 4 CAHA teams, in addition to 4 teams from other states. In 18's, there were only 4 CAHA teams.
This year, Districts for Bantam and 18's are in Alaska. 15's and 16's are in Las Vegas. Will be interesting to see how many CAHA teams get the nod to Districts this year, although it's a 5 and half hour flight to Alaska from Los Angeles. I wonder if the number of CAHA teams last year was a function of Districts being in CAHA, or CAHA's greater number of hockey players? The reality is that CAHA typically has more AAA teams than all the other states in the Pacific District combined. For Bantam Major this year, there is an Alaska team and they are the hosts, so they will no doubt be there. Washington has a couple of teams, and that's pretty much it outside of CAHA.
My guess for Districts would be 2 CAHA teams, Alaska and a team from Washington. If Washington doesn't go, then perhaps a third team from CAHA.
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So in theory...if the puck bounces the right way you could have an 03 team represent in the 02 Districts and possibly beyond?
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So in theory...if the puck bounces the right way you could have an 03 team represent in the 02 Districts and possibly beyond?
Valid question! CAHA approved the exception but does that continue at the District and National level? Although a good 03 team, not sure how well they'll withstand the physical side of players that could be two years older and more experience in getting the body off the puck. There are some talented big boys out there, that will have no problems moving those 03 around. Time will tell whether this was a good choice or not. Out for the season with an injury can change the outlook considerably.
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So in theory...if the puck bounces the right way you could have an 03 team represent in the 02 Districts and possibly beyond?
Valid question! CAHA approved the exception but does that continue at the District and National level? Although a good 03 team, not sure how well they'll withstand the physical side of players that could be two years older and more experience in getting the body off the puck. There are some talented big boys out there, that will have no problems moving those 03 around. Time will tell whether this was a good choice or not. Out for the season with an injury can change the outlook considerably.
If the 03 Kings finish in the top two in Bantam Major, pretty sure they will be moving on to Districts with a shot at Nationals. Eligibility is determined at the state level, and the players are registered through USA Hockey. States typically have to advise Districts by October 1st of the Tier I teams eligible for Districts, and USA Hockey is advised of who is eligible for Nationals by October 15. CAHA's eligibility list for Bantam is almost certainly going to be the teams playing in Bantam Major, which includes the 03 Kings.
Bantam is defined as 13 and 14 year olds, unlike the new 15U's, which is a pure 15 year old division. 14 year olds who play up in Midget have to play 16U, and are not allowed to play 15U. I'm not aware of any rule that requires a Bantam Major team to be all 14 year olds (although that is typically the case), or to even have a minimum number of 14 year olds to qualify for Major. Otherwise, it seems unlikely CAHA could grant the exception as a USA Hockey sanctioned entity. For example, I know that last year a 13 year old playing on a Bantam Major team played in Districts and Nationals. Since CAHA approved the 03 Kings to play Major, I think they'll get their shot as a sanctioned CAHA representative if they place high enough in States.
03 Kings played up in PW Major two years ago. They were about a .500 team and finished fourth out of five teams during the regular season, but they did make a little noise in States. That gave them far more competitive local games than they would have had playing in PW Minor. With checking and puberty, Bantam is a different game, especially playing up a year. Many first year Bantam players experience significant injuries. The last few years, several Bantam teams have had numerous players out with injuries. The 03 Kings are head and shoulders better than the other local 03 teams, so no doubt their choice to play up was motivated by the desire for competitive local games. However, they may have greater than their share of usual first year Bantam injuries since they will be playing against older, more mature teams. Let's hope not.
They've already beaten the 02 Kings a couple of times, and lost to the Gulls a couple of times. They haven't played the JD's yet. The Wave and Sharks folding their Bantam Major teams no doubt opened the door for the 03 Kings to play up. I suspect they will be just fine in Bantam Major, particularly in individual games during the season. If they don't already, they will soon have their checking legs under them. They will move the puck better than some, and not be as physical as others. Although, in a tournament setting like States where they have to play multiple games against the older teams in a short period of time, the cumulative physicality of the play may take a toll. All of this should be fun to watch.
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03 Kings beat the Gulls 2-1 after losing to them twice at Labor Day tournament.
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I know managers enter exhibition/tournament information on CAHA and info for player stats show up under the drop down menu. But can't find details about the games (scores, who played, etc) Anyone know where/if that info is available on the CAHA site? Realize info is available on myhockeyrankings IF the team(s) choose to report them.
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Elite Showcases coming up for both Major and Minor divisions. Minors head to Denver this weekend and Majors head to Troy next weekend. Bank accounts drained, let's play hockey!
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I hear Ducks struggled in Denver. Let games get away from them. Sharks had pretty good weekend. Gulls were off. According to website, Thunderbirds went undefeated except for tie with Ducks. Littleton AA came in second. Omaha, Sioux Falls, Iowa, also in tourney. Playing out of California always a rude awakening for the West teams.
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Always?
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I hear Ducks struggled in Denver. Let games get away from them. Sharks had pretty good weekend. Gulls were off. According to website, Thunderbirds went undefeated except for tie with Ducks. Littleton AA came in second. Omaha, Sioux Falls, Iowa, also in tourney. Playing out of California always a rude awakening for the West teams.
Ducks lost to weakest Colorado AAA team (CO Rampage) but than tied the top U13 AAA team, CO Thunderbirds. Anything can happen on any day.
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I see only one Kings Bantam Major team going to Troy showcase. Am assuming that the 02 team? Bit 03 team also playing in Majors this season. Anyone know where they are playing this weekend?
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Even though playing Bantam Major in CAHA, Kings 03 would not play at an 02 showcase.
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So at Troy's Bantam AAA Major Showcase, Ducks went 0-3 plus a loss in Overtime. Kings went 3-1. So would assume the Kings did better? BUT... if you look at the opponents, Ducks played Penguins (#4), Grizzlies (#6), Chicago Fury (#26) and NJ Avalanche (#23). Ducks currently ranked #27 on HockeyRankings.
Kings played Victory Honda (#51), NH Monarchs (#44), Colorado Rampage (#37) and Thunder Hockey (#9). Kings currently ranked #64.
Would say the Kings will be moving up in the rankings and Ducks will be shifting downward...
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calhockey doing well vs Ontario's AAA 03s
https://stx-shootout-2003.gameonmobile.com/organization/1285/league/2622/schedule
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Who won between 02 and 03 JK ??
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tomorrows game?
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Who won between 02 and 03 JK ??
02s 5-4 in a shootout
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I like the new ot and shootout rules in regular season. CAHA got something right.
I have no idea who will will states in this divison but it looks to be an exciting year for Bantam major. Anyone can win it.
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I like the new ot and shootout rules in regular season. CAHA got something right.
Except they still have W-L-T for their standings and this game is entered as a 4-4 tie on the CAHA website. Can someone explain that?
Edit: CAHA updated the final score to 5-4, but their W-L-T standings still don't make sense. There are no more ties.
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CAHA will count the points correctly even though the website may not reflect it.
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CAHA will always get things correct; the referee calls will always be accurate; parents will always agree with coaches decision and mind their own business and hockey will always be the most affordable youth sport and have no club politics involved. I must be in hockey heaven!
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CAHA will always get things correct; the referee calls will always be accurate; parents will always agree with coaches decision and mind their own business and hockey will always be the most affordable youth sport and have no club politics involved. I must be in hockey heaven!
;D
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I am glad you have such confidence. :) I am only commenting based on experience from a prior year where we had a some OT wins that didn't show up correctly in the standing on the website but the seedings in playoffs were correct.
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Saw that as well. Gonna be a hell of a State Championship.
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Standings for the Major BANTAM with 3 games left for all ( But Kings 2 03)
This is what we all want I would hope. no one above or below 3 goals.
Could not be more balanced. Everyone has beaten everyone at one time or another.
The playoffs will be entertaining whoever wins. Not sure if the 03 Kings can even go, I am sure someone knows.
One question is that, "Could they play up again next year in the U15" ?
( no point in playing with the 03 AAA in California)
Not fun for anyone I would assume,
If they have to stay in the Bantam AAA again for next year, would they go their separate ways( and forget Bantam AAA and the cost)and move to U15 or U16 teams, which I would think other U15 or 16 would take them all in a second,
But I maybe wrong,( or would they go indy as a team) I have a son in 07 ,but saw them this weekend in the NHL Cup Saw them play against the Ducks and Gulls( not fun for either of those teams). But the Kings were a fun team to watch.
Place Team GP W L T PTS GF GA Diff
Jr. Kings(2) (http://www.caha.com/schedule.pl?d=9&t=732) 8 5 3 0 16 21 21
02Jr. Gulls (http://www.caha.com/schedule.pl?d=9&t=730) 6 3 3 0 10 20 17 +3
Jr. Kings(1) (http://www.caha.com/schedule.pl?d=9&t=731) 6 3 3 0 7 22 22
Jr. Ducks (http://www.caha.com/schedule.pl?d=9&t=729) 6 2 4 0 6 14 17 -3
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It is interesting to see what time and maturity does to teams. Ducks 02s were supposed to be the dream team.
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I believe 03 Kings would do the games necessary to do Bantam AAA next year to qualify moving into Nationals. Don't think they can advance to Nationals this year even if they win state in Major Division? Also will be interesting to see if they lose anyone to prep schools next season!
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It is interesting to see what time and maturity does to teams. Ducks 02s were supposed to be the dream team.
Says who? I don't even think the Ducks would say they were supposed to be the dream team. They did win state last year and picked up a few good players from the folded Wave team (which was supposed to be last year's dream team), so their performance this year has been a bit puzzling. They really came on late last year, so we'll see if history repeats. As the earlier post noted, the close competition is great for everyone.
Bantam majors are not allowed to play in 15U. They would have to play in 16U.
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It is interesting to see what time and maturity does to teams. Ducks 02s were supposed to be the dream team.
Says who? I don't even think the Ducks would say they were supposed to be the dream team. They did win state last year and picked up a few good players from the folded Wave team (which was supposed to be last year's dream team), so their performance this year has been a bit puzzling. They really came on late last year, so we'll see if history repeats. As the earlier post noted, the close competition is great for everyone.
Bantam majors are not allowed to play in 15U. They would have to play in 16U.
Actually, Wave kids abandoned ship before tryouts. 2 to Ducks, 1 to Gulls. Then Bantam AAA coach ran a very strange tryout, and didn't get the numbers.
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#1, 2, 3, 19 @the TSC
BelleTire 3, LIGulls 1
Chicago Mission 3, Jr. Kings 2 (OT)
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Congratulations to the Jr Gulls 14AAA on winning the State Championship yesterday!
Great group of kids and the parents aren't so bad.... ;)
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so, is everyone EXCEPT the kings 02 going to pacifics?