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Hockey Discussions => Midget Hockey => Topic started by: Puck Yeah on June 20, 2017, 08:24:38 AM
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CAHA Tier II Flight System Administration Guidelines for 2017-18 Season
Jun 19, 2017 7:32 PM
On June 17, 2017, the CAHA Board of Directors adopted the following CAHA Tier II Flight System Administration Guidelines
1) All Tier II teams will be required to participate in Preseason Evaluation Jamboree; failure to attend will result in disqualification from all Tier II participation.
2) In order to ‘Flight’ a division there must be a minimum of 12 teams (6 teams per flight minimum).
3) Flight 1 will have a maximum of 10 teams.
4) CAHA may schedule multiple rounds of games within the CAHA weekends to assure each team gets 12 – 18 games.
5) If after preseason jamboree evaluation the Evaluation Committee determines a particular division cannot be equitably split into two divisions that division will play as a whole without being split into two flights.
6) Evaluation Jamboree format will be 1â€hour mini game slots, with a 3 minute warmup, (2) 25 minute runtime periods, and a 1 minute intermission between periods.
7) Teams will play minimum of four (4) games (any team may be asked to play a 5th game at the jamboree at the request of the evaluation committee).
8) The two weeks following the Preseason Evaluation Jamboree, teams are subject to being required to play further evaluation “prove me†game(s) within their respective leagues (SCAHA/NORCAL) if requested by the Evaluation Committee.
9) CAHA will ensure no less than three (3) evaluators are assessing each age division (if possible, evaluators will not review multiple age divisions).
10) Tier II Playdowns will still be an 8 team playdown.
11) Flight 1/Flight 2 Playdown Scenarios: a. Flight 1 has 6 teams; #1 and #2 seed from Flight 2 advance to playdowns.
b. Flight 1 has 7 teams; #1 seed from Flight 2 advances to playdowns.
c. Flight 1 has 8 teams; #1 seed from Flight 2 has playâ€in game against Flight 1 #8 seed, winner advances to playdowns.
d. Flight 1 has 9 teams; #1 seed from Flight 2 has playâ€in game against Flight 1 #8 seed, winner advances to playdowns.
e. Flight 1 has 10 teams; #1 seed from Flight 2 has playâ€in game against Flight 1 #8 seed, winner advances to playdowns.
12) When Flight 2 #1 seed has playâ€in game against Flight 1 #8 seed, the Flight 1 team shall be the home team, with the Flight 2 team traveling to play said game.
13) In the event a Flight 2 #1 seed declines the opportunity for the playâ€in game, the Flight 1 #8 seed will advance to playdowns.
2017 Jamboree Information:
- The 2017 CAHA Tier II Jamboree will be held at Sharks Ice San Jose September 1st – 4th.
- Games may start as early as 5pm on Friday and may end as late as 6pm on Monday.
- If needed, games may be scheduled at Sharks Ice – Fremont
- Teams are not required to stay at host hotels.
- The first two (2) games for each team shall be pre-determined; the following games will be scheduled based on the Evaluation Committee recommendations.
- The fee for the Jamboree is $900.00 per team , payable to CAHA, and is due by August 20th to:
Laura Cahn
349 Nancy Circle
Vacaville, CA 95687
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I am so glad my kid decided not to stay and play AA this year....WOOHOO what a joke this league has turned into.
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I think CAHA has realized the huge problem the original idea was going to cause and has since (with this) tried to remedy the shortcomings. It remains to be seen if this will have any success in the face what is certain to be at least half the teams offering objection and criticism.
I can see the problem that California has with teams that don't belong in a division insisting on playing in that division. Whether this will have any positive impact remains to be seen. Sometimes the cure can be worse than the disease.
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Looking at the club declarations, only 12AA has 16 teams for an 8-8 split. 14AA/16AA have 14 and 13 teams respectively, which would make for a straight simple season of playing all teams once. Even considering past level disparity, it doesn't seem that all 3 leagues would need to do the Jamboree Junket.
And then consider that the end result of what is now demanded will be that all the same disparate teams will for sure be playing each other anyway, just showcased for a selected committee at an expensive travel venue. That makes sense! (BTW can someone tell me how to apply to be a delegate? Gotta be some comp'd brew there somewhere.)
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Looking at the club declarations, only 12AA has 16 teams for an 8-8 split. 14AA/16AA have 14 and 13 teams respectively, which would make for a straight simple season of playing all teams once. Even considering past level disparity, it doesn't seem that all 3 leagues would need to do the Jamboree Junket.
And then consider that the end result of what is now demanded will be that all the same disparate teams will for sure be playing each other anyway, just showcased for a selected committee at an expensive travel venue. That makes sense! (BTW can someone tell me how to apply to be a delegate? Gotta be some comp'd brew there somewhere.)
You're not counting the norcal team declarations... I did not look at 12U or 16U but 14U has 14 in socal and 4 more in norcal.
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There are 5 16U AA declared in Norcal. That will make 18 for the state. I dont think they will necessarily go with a straight 9/9 split... if 10 teams belong in flight 1 then it will be 10/8. If only 7 belong then it will be 7/11... thats just my understanding of it... I may be completely wrong.
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Caha experimented on the AA division without any parent input. To most, the results of the new format were unfavorable. Last year, the covert 3 question survey on the topic was not publicly disseminated. This year, once again, a unilateral decision was made to create a new format without parent input. The parent's pay for youth hockey. The members of executive competitive "committee" are not publicly known and they make decisions without parent input. The meeting over the weekend was not publicly announced. It is a sad state of affairs when an organization who presumably has the best interests of its player members refuses to allow for public comment but instead makes decisions behind closed doors. Caha has a list of every player and certainly parent's email addresses. They could have done a survey or asked for parent input.
So instead of spending a nice Labor Day weekend at home in Orange County (perhaps playing in a meaningless IHE Tournament), my son and I are forced to travel to San Jose to essentially decide the fate of his team before the season has even begun. And I can tell you from having my son play PW AA, Bantam AA and last season Midget AA, the strength of a team's performance in the 2001 and 2002 birthyear cannot be determined in early September. For instance, last season's Midget AA Ducks 01 won the IHE Tournament over Labor Day. They failed however, to make Playdowns. By Midget AA, every coach knows every kid, almost every parent knows most other parents. There are few surprises but what is not known is how well a team performs over the course of the next six months. Last year's Ducks 2000 were the top team in Midget AA during the season, did they win it? Nope, Santa Clara came on like gangbusters. Would Santa Clara have been projected to be the best team in Midget AA back in September and gotten a hall pass? I doubt it.
To give six or seven teams a hall pass to Playdowns is not equitable. In fact in virtually all of my son's AA seasons involving the 00, 01 and 02 birthyears, there were maybe 2 teams that were really strong and 2 teams that were really weak and the rest was a dogfight. And guess what, it is virtually the same 16 teams playing again this year....nobody wants a 6 team division and quite frankly, no body cares if a team "sucks." It is after all, those parent's choice to put their team in AA and if they lose every game, so what? It is their money.
And speaking of cost: 40 youth teams traveling north, 18 kids a team, S1200 in hotel (food, dues, gas, airplane, possibly up to 4 nights in $160 hotels) = $864,000 parent dollars spent for one weekend.
I find it ironic that CAHA posts the "Road to Nowhere" articles yet talks about increasing competition. Grow up, this is California...hockey is not a strong athletic sport here as it is too expensive and the season lasts way too long. The best athletes choose other sports and multiple sports by High School age. There are about less than 300 kids in any age bracket statewide, that is nothing. This is not British Columbia where they have 2000 kids in an age group and a "play in" makes sense (so does Flights/Tiers up there of which there are many)
There are no Cali Midget aged 2001s/02s with exceptional Major Jr status, no 2001s making the World Jr Team, no 2001s who will be in the NHL or likely any level of serious college hockey, I could go on and on and this includes AAA kids, despite the dreams of the AAA parents. If you want to play hockey for a living, more to where they play hockey. Don't worry about competition at the AA level, CAHA left the 18U alone and they should do the same for 16U. 16U parent's have no illusions and certainly don't need to unnecessarily increase the cost of their kid's joy of ice hockey while they still have a few year's left.
And finally, my PBR 12 pack is on sale for $8.99 at Albertsons and maybe will be cheaper by Labor Day, the charcoal is maybe $11.00, the hotdogs, i can get two dozen for $5.00...all of which I was looking forward to like every other Labor Day....oh wait, I will be up in San Jose spending a shit ton of money so my kid can play "competitive" hockey...jackasses....
Oh, and then we spend another $1000 to go to San Jose in early October for a Caha weekend? I could go on...
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Welcome back Pucklawyer and thanks for your insight. Most of us no doubt agree. I hope your son is playing well and glad he's still enjoying the sport.
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Caha experimented on the AA division without any parent input. To most, the results of the new format were unfavorable. Last year, the covert 3 question survey on the topic was not publicly disseminated. This year, once again, a unilateral decision was made to create a new format without parent input. The parent's pay for youth hockey. The members of executive competitive "committee" are not publicly known and they make decisions without parent input. The meeting over the weekend was not publicly announced. It is a sad state of affairs when an organization who presumably has the best interests of its player members refuses to allow for public comment but instead makes decisions behind closed doors. Caha has a list of every player and certainly parent's email addresses. They could have done a survey or asked for parent input.
So instead of spending a nice Labor Day weekend at home in Orange County (perhaps playing in a meaningless IHE Tournament), my son and I are forced to travel to San Jose to essentially decide the fate of his team before the season has even begun. And I can tell you from having my son play PW AA, Bantam AA and last season Midget AA, the strength of a team's performance in the 2001 and 2002 birthyear cannot be determined in early September. For instance, last season's Midget AA Ducks 01 won the IHE Tournament over Labor Day. They failed however, to make Playdowns. By Midget AA, every coach knows every kid, almost every parent knows most other parents. There are few surprises but what is not known is how well a team performs over the course of the next six months. Last year's Ducks 2000 were the top team in Midget AA during the season, did they win it? Nope, Santa Clara came on like gangbusters. Would Santa Clara have been projected to be the best team in Midget AA back in September and gotten a hall pass? I doubt it.
To give six or seven teams a hall pass to Playdowns is not equitable. In fact in virtually all of my son's AA seasons involving the 00, 01 and 02 birthyears, there were maybe 2 teams that were really strong and 2 teams that were really weak and the rest was a dogfight. And guess what, it is virtually the same 16 teams playing again this year....nobody wants a 6 team division and quite frankly, no body cares if a team "sucks." It is after all, those parent's choice to put their team in AA and if they lose every game, so what? It is their money.
And speaking of cost: 40 youth teams traveling north, 18 kids a team, S1200 in hotel (food, dues, gas, airplane, possibly up to 4 nights in $160 hotels) = $864,000 parent dollars spent for one weekend.
I find it ironic that CAHA posts the "Road to Nowhere" articles yet talks about increasing competition. Grow up, this is California...hockey is not a strong athletic sport here as it is too expensive and the season lasts way too long. The best athletes choose other sports and multiple sports by High School age. There are about less than 300 kids in any age bracket statewide, that is nothing. This is not British Columbia where they have 2000 kids in an age group and a "play in" makes sense (so does Flights/Tiers up there of which there are many)
There are no Cali Midget aged 2001s/02s with exceptional Major Jr status, no 2001s making the World Jr Team, no 2001s who will be in the NHL or likely any level of serious college hockey, I could go on and on and this includes AAA kids, despite the dreams of the AAA parents. If you want to play hockey for a living, more to where they play hockey. Don't worry about competition at the AA level, CAHA left the 18U alone and they should do the same for 16U. 16U parent's have no illusions and certainly don't need to unnecessarily increase the cost of their kid's joy of ice hockey while they still have a few year's left.
And finally, my PBR 12 pack is on sale for $8.99 at Albertsons and maybe will be cheaper by Labor Day, the charcoal is maybe $11.00, the hotdogs, i can get two dozen for $5.00...all of which I was looking forward to like every other Labor Day....oh wait, I will be up in San Jose spending a shit ton of money so my kid can play "competitive" hockey...jackasses....
Oh, and then we spend another $1000 to go to San Jose in early October for a Caha weekend? I could go on...
What's up PL !!! Spot on.....
Glad to see you've awaken from your hibernation.
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What if............ no one paid and no one showed up???????? Problem solved, money saved.
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I am so glad my kid decided not to stay and play AA this year....WOOHOO what a joke this league has turned into.
Same book different cover. CAHA still doesn't get it.......
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I can see the problem that California has with teams that don't belong in a division insisting on playing in that division. Whether this will have any positive impact remains to be seen. Sometimes the cure can be worse than the disease.
I lover the cure VS disease comparison.
How about CAHA offer teams the option to opt out of the stinking jamboree to play in the lower division and spend the money for more practices? [size=78%]CAHA could then drop the team if they want anyway based on scrimmages and the [/size][/size][size=78%] teams that attend could maybe play a real hockey game that isn't run time. [/size]
It is a lose - lose everywhere. Clubs that have Labor Day tourneys also lose out. Does anyone really like it?
I can't see how this expensive weekend with a total cost of nearly 1 million dollars is going to get any better.
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Calm down and have some dandelion wine.Caha experimented on the AA division without any parent input. To most, the results of the new format were unfavorable. Last year, the covert 3 question survey on the topic was not publicly disseminated. This year, once again, a unilateral decision was made to create a new format without parent input. The parent's pay for youth hockey. The members of executive competitive "committee" are not publicly known and they make decisions without parent input. The meeting over the weekend was not publicly announced. It is a sad state of affairs when an organization who presumably has the best interests of its player members refuses to allow for public comment but instead makes decisions behind closed doors. Caha has a list of every player and certainly parent's email addresses. They could have done a survey or asked for parent input.
So instead of spending a nice Labor Day weekend at home in Orange County (perhaps playing in a meaningless IHE Tournament), my son and I are forced to travel to San Jose to essentially decide the fate of his team before the season has even begun. And I can tell you from having my son play PW AA, Bantam AA and last season Midget AA, the strength of a team's performance in the 2001 and 2002 birthyear cannot be determined in early September. For instance, last season's Midget AA Ducks 01 won the IHE Tournament over Labor Day. They failed however, to make Playdowns. By Midget AA, every coach knows every kid, almost every parent knows most other parents. There are few surprises but what is not known is how well a team performs over the course of the next six months. Last year's Ducks 2000 were the top team in Midget AA during the season, did they win it? Nope, Santa Clara came on like gangbusters. Would Santa Clara have been projected to be the best team in Midget AA back in September and gotten a hall pass? I doubt it.
To give six or seven teams a hall pass to Playdowns is not equitable. In fact in virtually all of my son's AA seasons involving the 00, 01 and 02 birthyears, there were maybe 2 teams that were really strong and 2 teams that were really weak and the rest was a dogfight. And guess what, it is virtually the same 16 teams playing again this year....nobody wants a 6 team division and quite frankly, no body cares if a team "sucks." It is after all, those parent's choice to put their team in AA and if they lose every game, so what? It is their money.
And speaking of cost: 40 youth teams traveling north, 18 kids a team, S1200 in hotel (food, dues, gas, airplane, possibly up to 4 nights in $160 hotels) = $864,000 parent dollars spent for one weekend.
I find it ironic that CAHA posts the "Road to Nowhere" articles yet talks about increasing competition. Grow up, this is California...hockey is not a strong athletic sport here as it is too expensive and the season lasts way too long. The best athletes choose other sports and multiple sports by High School age. There are about less than 300 kids in any age bracket statewide, that is nothing. This is not British Columbia where they have 2000 kids in an age group and a "play in" makes sense (so does Flights/Tiers up there of which there are many)
There are no Cali Midget aged 2001s/02s with exceptional Major Jr status, no 2001s making the World Jr Team, no 2001s who will be in the NHL or likely any level of serious college hockey, I could go on and on and this includes AAA kids, despite the dreams of the AAA parents. If you want to play hockey for a living, more to where they play hockey. Don't worry about competition at the AA level, CAHA left the 18U alone and they should do the same for 16U. 16U parent's have no illusions and certainly don't need to unnecessarily increase the cost of their kid's joy of ice hockey while they still have a few year's left.
And finally, my PBR 12 pack is on sale for $8.99 at Albertsons and maybe will be cheaper by Labor Day, the charcoal is maybe $11.00, the hotdogs, i can get two dozen for $5.00...all of which I was looking forward to like every other Labor Day....oh wait, I will be up in San Jose spending a shit ton of money so my kid can play "competitive" hockey...jackasses....
Oh, and then we spend another $1000 to go to San Jose in early October for a Caha weekend? I could go on...
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Outstanding 1st post Dman! The problem does result from it still needing a third racking so it frustrating as my target date was Labor Day but maybe I can swing by some Norcal Vineyards over that weekend to learn some trade secrets as I will have lots of time after my son plays a few 50 minute runtime games over 3 days!
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For some of us who have been part of this forum since the start, isn't this what some people have asked for? Maybe not the whole flight system grouping thing. But people have been asking for years to have a weekend or two of preseason "seeding games" to see if teams belong. If it isn't one group of parents complaining about why their kid has to play against lower skilled teams that don't belong and wasting a weekend to some far off rink, than it is another group complaining that they have to drive off to a far off rink to play seeding games to make sure they play against teams of similar caliber. I personally like the idea of the seeding games. However I do not like the flight system.
Simple reality;
-People will complain about something regardless
-CAHA does nothing, people will complain
-CAHA does something, people will complain
-younger birth teams are often classified as one of two things; elite because they can play against the "bigger kids" and still win, or this year is a building year and they expect to loose but still need to play teir
-Clubs will always have teams in divisions that "don't belong"
-parents will always pay to be on teams that "don't belong"
-common sense and logic will often loose out when parents, clubs and coaches are faced with the question of dropping down a division after going 0-4 in preseason
I agree with Puck Yeah on his comment "I can see the problem that California has with teams that don't belong in a division insisting on playing in that division. Whether this will have any positive impact remains to be seen. Sometimes the cure can be worse than the disease."
Something needed to be changed. I give credit for CAHA trying a preseason seeding system. If they continue with the 50 minute run time concept, than each team should play around 8 games each. This way the clubs, parents and coaches get a better view of how they stack up against the majority of teams in the division. However, I still think it has to be up to the respective teams to drop.
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That's a little like saying "we all agreed that the coffee table and couch clashed and needed to be moved."
"So we set the living room on fire."
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That's a little like saying "we all agreed that the coffee table and couch clashed and needed to be moved."
"So we set the living room on fire."
Hahaha! I think more like.. painting the coffee table to make it work with the couch, then to hear complaining.... "But i liked the color of the coffee table!"
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At the end of the day, I could care less about the reasons why! As long as my son plays in as many games as possible for the amount of money spent, I'm all for it. Talk about economics. Here my son is playing in 55-60 games a year and the AAA is playing in 10 games more for $10K more! I like my economics!!! :D
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So what's Tier II costing these days??? My sons last year in Caha 2 years ago I spent with dues and all the travel roughly 13,000.00 plus gas, sticks, gear, food, and misc stuff four the year. So guess add another 3-5000.00.... Plus late night practices and all for 3-5 hours a week of ice....HHHHMMMM
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how much are you paying for THA?
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But we aren't going up there to spend four nights in a hotel to play 8 run time games. We are going up there to spend $$$ to have our player play 4 - 50 minute run time games. I agree, it is easy to bitch and I've been on the other side in life, however I fear the group is out of touch and I question if they are looking out for our best interest.
Did anyone consider the impact on hockey families setting this up? Do we really have to do this? And god forbid some player misses the tournament (I mean jamboree). The games could have been played as they always are, as scrimmages. The stats often state the level of play. They then could have had an open weekend in which the 2-4 teams are scheduled to play and get together to scrimmage based on proximity and sent their committee members to those games. It would have saved 3/4's of the cost and hundreds of hours of time.
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You guys think it's bad now...wait till the teams get placed. Then the bitchin about which teams should be up or down will start. The beat will go on and on. It's like the NCAA mens B-ball tourny selections. You will always have your studs and then it's mostly bubble teams. As parents we have been in this mess for a long time. By now we all know how our teams will be for the up coming season. Those on stud teams congrats..those on lesser teams stand by and prepare for some lumps with a sprinkle of smiles. Remember we pay for this, no one is forced to play in a certain division.
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Talked to an old timer, because this was making my head spin. Said this has been tried before and it didn't work. He didn't seem too concerned.
As for seeding after one weekend, it's fine for teams who have had minimal turnover, but WAVE 3 exploded because, well, that's a fine tale there for another day.
Kids have gone to Empire, 2 Ducks teams, 1 to AAA Kings, 1 to San José... Bears and probably an OC team will be strong off the top. Wave AA1 will be mid-pack at best out the gate because the kids haven't worked together. But we stole one of the best goalies, so that always gives you a shot.
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Talked to an old timer, because this was making my head spin. Said this has been tried before and it didn't work. He didn't seem too concerned.
As for seeding after one weekend, it's fine for teams who have had minimal turnover, but WAVE 3 exploded because, well, that's a fine tale there for another day.
Kids have gone to Empire, 2 Ducks teams, 1 to AAA Kings, 1 to San José... Bears and probably an OC team will be strong off the top. Wave AA1 will be mid-pack at best out the gate because the kids haven't worked together. But we stole one of the best goalies, so that always gives you a shot.
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I predict the Bears will not be a strong Midget team :o ......
CAHA has given themselves an out if they decide the chaos that this is going to create is not worth it.
5) If after preseason jamboree evaluation the Evaluation Committee determines a particular division cannot be equitably split into two divisions that division will play as a whole without being split into two flights.
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This is going to be a emotion filled process and not without some sound reasons. The "Bubble" teams will have huge stake at risk and in reality bubble teams usually leap frog during the season. I believe there will be 18 16U teams creating a large "middle of the pack" thereby create a large potential for movement.
I believe the one other out CAHA will have is if the two flights do not play each other there will be no way to measure the first flight against the second flight other than tournaments play. I can imagine a scenario where a second flight team knocks off a first flight team in tournament play and the ensuing debate that will create.
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how much are you paying for THA?
Unfortunately I cannot say, lets just say it was alittle rough the first year for the program but my son got some exposure and 2 colleges interested in him. I believe with the schedule they have set up for both the Prep team and Varsity team and the dorms completes locker room done and main facility complete its only going to be a better second year. He will be a junior this year he has been on an offseason workout program to be ready for the upcoming season. I believe this program will surpass all expectations for youth hockey on the west coast...
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My son's team dues were $3800 last year. The cheapest AAA dues I now of are $16,000. Now say the travel is the same which we all know it is not. There is a difference of $12,200 just on dues. Only 10 more games. Yes the AAA travel is to NY, Minn., Canada. etc. which only adds more to travel. In any case, I still like my economics! :P
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My son's team dues were $3800 last year. The cheapest AAA dues I now of are $16,000. Now say the travel is the same which we all know it is not. There is a difference of $12,200 just on dues. Only 10 more games. Yes the AAA travel is to NY, Minn., Canada. etc. which only adds more to travel. In any case, I still like my economics! :P
Nothing stops an AA team from more travel and games in the same places if that is agreeable to coaches and parents.
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WAVE 3 U14 Bantam A played a total of 50 games last season when you count the AA/AAA games and I think that includes playoff games. Plus maybe a dozen informal scrimmages, sometimes using practice time or throwing in $20.
I can't imagine playing more than that. We started practicing in August and played the State Championship April 2nd. Of course you can be done end of February if your team sucks.
And then the pressure to play Spring hockey and Carmen Starr or some such tournament, then tryouts beginning of June.
Then what? 6-7 weeks off till we crank in mid-August again? My kid is only skating 2x a week and swimming 4x a week. He gets Fridays off.
I'm scaring myself writing this down.
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My son's team dues were $3800 last year. The cheapest AAA dues I now of are $16,000. Now say the travel is the same which we all know it is not. There is a difference of $12,200 just on dues. Only 10 more games. Yes the AAA travel is to NY, Minn., Canada. etc. which only adds more to travel. In any case, I still like my economics! :P
Are you kidding?? 16k for So Cal AAA midget?? Holy crap. More than I thought. So glad my kid is done in So Cal.
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My son's team dues were $3800 last year. The cheapest AAA dues I now of are $16,000. Now say the travel is the same which we all know it is not. There is a difference of $12,200 just on dues. Only 10 more games. Yes the AAA travel is to NY, Minn., Canada. etc. which only adds more to travel. In any case, I still like my economics! :P
Are you kidding?? 16k for So Cal AAA midget?? Holy crap. More than I thought. So glad my kid is done in So Cal.
As a former CAHA parent - I'm enjoying this thread...
Back in 2012-13 useless U15 Minor Jr. Kings AAA was formally a $5800 experiment. It ended up being just shy of 25k. Just saying.
Don't take this too seriously, in a few years you will suddenly gain lots of free time.
Although memories and self-doubt will continue to haunt you for a while.
As far as being realistic for 90% of you - start looking into ACHA (http://achahockey.org/view/achahockeyisions/men-s-d2-1)now.
Hockey may be crap from your today's POV; trust me, it will extend your vicarious careers by 4-5 years.
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My son's team dues were $3800 last year. The cheapest AAA dues I now of are $16,000. Now say the travel is the same which we all know it is not. There is a difference of $12,200 just on dues. Only 10 more games. Yes the AAA travel is to NY, Minn., Canada. etc. which only adds more to travel. In any case, I still like my economics! :P
AAA dues are not $16,000 - they are $5,800 - $6,800 depending on club - All in we spent just under $14,000 for 15UAAA for a player last year including all travel , food, hotel, rental car, equipment, lessons etc. Factoring in another $4,000 for family travel and it was around $18k all in.
Our son played Bantam AA major before that and his team played all the way to Nationals and we spent $14k for him for a similar number of games, 1 fewer ice slot per week for practice for our player, no professional dry land and no free clinic. With Family travel we came to just over $18k for the 14U AA season. So cost was close similar for a top tier AA team versus a typical 15U AAA team.
For next season for 16U AAA based on club dues ($6,500) and budgeted assessments estimates we have received to date I would expect the cost to be more as we are doing more travel (10-12 trips versus 7). So expecting all in cost of $16-18k for the player. Family travel on top of that.
It is not cheap but the delta is not as exaggerated as people suggest. You often hear numbers like $40k thrown around but that has not been our reality to date and I have kept track of every penny for past 4 seasons. Included in my numbers above are all club dues, club assessments, uniforms, skates, sticks, private lessons, protective gear, tape, travel cost to all events (air, parking, rental car, hotel, food etc.) and misc. costs you get over the year. Only thing not included is the travel cost to and from practice.
So despite what people say we have not found the cost from a top level AA team to be much different than a AAA team, especially given the extra ice time you receive. Either way great way to enjoy time with your player and your family!
It will be over all too soon, so be sure you have a lot of fun along the way!
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Thanks for posting. Truly useful.
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Good Info
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You forgot to mention how much school was missed. Take the 18k. send your kid to a college prep school with ice hockey....he will get exposed to the hockey world but will also get a AAA education and priceless life lessons. IMHO
Thanks for posting. Truly useful.
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You forgot to mention how much school was missed. Take the 18k. send your kid to a college prep school with ice hockey....he will get exposed to the hockey world but will also get a AAA education and priceless life lessons. IMHO
Thanks for posting. Truly useful.
I agree this will be the second year my son will be attending THA and his GPA went from a average 2.6 to a 3.6. Gets to be on the ice 5 days a week 2 hours a day. 55 plus games. THA had a lot of ups and downs but with the main facility and dorms completed this year and affiliation with a Jr program this year will be a huge step forward and my son is very excited about going back. This is the first summer that he has worked so hard on his off ice training program. As a 6'3 265lb defenseman and still growing I think he is going to surprise his coaches when they go back in August....
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I have extra-ordinarily difficult feelings on this topic, so I'm going to shut up. :-)
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Hipcheck34-Sounds like a good situation-Who does THA play against? Other prep schools?
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I have extra-ordinarily difficult feelings on this topic, so I'm going to shut up. :-)
.......find that very hard to believe.
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You forgot to mention how much school was missed. Take the 18k. send your kid to a college prep school with ice hockey....he will get exposed to the hockey world but will also get a AAA education and priceless life lessons. IMHO
Thanks for posting. Truly useful.
I agree this will be the second year my son will be attending THA and his GPA went from a average 2.6 to a 3.6. Gets to be on the ice 5 days a week 2 hours a day. 55 plus games. THA had a lot of ups and downs but with the main facility and dorms completed this year and affiliation with a Jr program this year will be a huge step forward and my son is very excited about going back. This is the first summer that he has worked so hard on his off ice training program. As a 6'3 265lb defenseman and still growing I think he is going to surprise his coaches when they go back in August....
Having any kid on the ice that amount of time is going to make ANY kid better. ML is a hell of a coach but he's not for everyone (no coddling there)
But come on.....gpa going up in an online school is nothing to get a hard on about.
I can home school my kid and his gpa can go from 3.5 to 4.2 also. Doubt MIT would be breaking down my door.
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Not trying to hijack the descussion. Sorry if I am.
How do colleges view grades from online high schools & homeschooling? So is a kid in a tradtional HS taking IB classes and getting a 4.1 in the same position to colleges as a homeschooled HS kid getting a 4.1?
Hipchec34 - If your kid is 6 foot 3 & 265, you might want to turn him into a football lineman. Better chance at getting a football college scholarship than hockey college scholarship.
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There is no D1 hockey west of Colorado except Arizona.
I talked to Stanford and they have D2 but you have to pay to play.
Why Kings and Ducks have not got together with this with UCLA I have no idea (anyone?) but it is ridiculous.
We were looking at Water Polo as a side sport which gives scholarships and is a fine complement to hockey until he dislocated his shoulder twice (U14).
Gonna be interesting, and this is a good topic for the doldrums.
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How do colleges view grades from online high schools & homeschooling? So is a kid in a traditional HS taking IB classes and getting a 4.1 in the same position to colleges as a home schooled HS kid getting a 4.1?
This is a question I have heard many times at USA Hockey and College Hockey seminars the last couple years. They have all said that they do not look favorably upon the home schooled and online education. That said, they would not turn Patrick Kane away because he was home schooled (I have no idea if he actually was or not). But, if there are two kids with similar skill and one managed traditional schooling while balancing their hockey commitments, they would pick the traditional schooled kid. Personally, I think this is one of those things like "Character" where they have a desire to have the best character kids and family. Just like they want the traditional education, but will still give many chances to the poor character kid if they are skilled enough. Sad but true....
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How do colleges view grades from online high schools & homeschooling? So is a kid in a traditional HS taking IB classes and getting a 4.1 in the same position to colleges as a home schooled HS kid getting a 4.1?
This is a question I have heard many times at USA Hockey and College Hockey seminars the last couple years. They have all said that they do not look favorably upon the home schooled and online education. That said, they would not turn Patrick Kane away because he was home schooled (I have no idea if he actually was or not). But, if there are two kids with similar skill and one managed traditional schooling while balancing their hockey commitments, they would pick the traditional schooled kid. Personally, I think this is one of those things like "Character" where they have a desire to have the best character kids and family. Just like they want the traditional education, but will still give many chances to the poor character kid if they are skilled enough. Sad but true....
Depends on the kid and the school. I know there is a player on harvard who received a full educational ride based on academics and he was home schooled his entire life from elementary to graduating high school. Each situation is different.
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How do colleges view grades from online high schools & homeschooling? So is a kid in a traditional HS taking IB classes and getting a 4.1 in the same position to colleges as a home schooled HS kid getting a 4.1?
This is a question I have heard many times at USA Hockey and College Hockey seminars the last couple years. They have all said that they do not look favorably upon the home schooled and online education. That said, they would not turn Patrick Kane away because he was home schooled (I have no idea if he actually was or not). But, if there are two kids with similar skill and one managed traditional schooling while balancing their hockey commitments, they would pick the traditional schooled kid. Personally, I think this is one of those things like "Character" where they have a desire to have the best character kids and family. Just like they want the traditional education, but will still give many chances to the poor character kid if they are skilled enough. Sad but true....
Depends on the kid and the school. I know there is a player on harvard who received a full educational ride based on academics and he was home schooled his entire life from elementary to graduating high school. Each situation is different.
Good for him. That is impressive! There are always exceptions... Of course every situation is different, but there are generalities. I'm pretty sure they were talking in general terms and don't feel they (USA Hockey and more than 15 D1 colleges) had any reason to lie about what they look for. Exceptional kids with Superior Hockey skill (like the Patrick Kane example they used), or Super Gifted Smart (like your example) are not the norm. [/size][size=78%] [/size]
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Depends on the kid and the school. I know there is a player on harvard who received a full educational ride based on academics and he was home schooled his entire life from elementary to graduating high school. Each situation is different.
Good for him. That is impressive! There are always exceptions... Of course every situation is different, but there are generalities. I'm pretty sure they were talking in general terms and don't feel they (USA Hockey and more than 15 D1 colleges) had any reason to lie about what they look for. Exceptional kids with Superior Hockey skill (like the Patrick Kane example they used), or Super Gifted Smart (like your example) are not the norm.
Also, just to more information. Harvard is an Ivy league school. Just like Dartmouth, Princeton, Yale, Columbia, Cornell, Brown, UPenn, etc. Ivy League schools provide financial aid to students, including athletes, only on the basis of financial need as determined by each institution's Financial Aid Office. There are no [/color]academic[/color] or athletic [/color]scholarships[/color] in the [/color]Ivy League[/color]. [/font][/color]This does not mean the example you gave did not get a "ride" due to financial need and possibly a scholarship from a 3rd party group, but they did not get from the College. I spoke directly to the Dartmouth Head Coach who also indicated that most kids will need a couple years in Junior Hockey before advancing to NCAA. This was noted by someone else as well. Further he indicated for Dartmouth (he did not confirm all Ivy League, but he believed it to be true for those schools as well), any college courses taken during those say 2 years of Junior Hockey at a local college will NOT be transferable. This is specific to IVY/Dartmouth but I found interesting.[/size]
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[/color][/size][/font]
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Depends on the kid and the school. I know there is a player on harvard who received a full educational ride based on academics and he was home schooled his entire life from elementary to graduating high school. Each situation is different.
Good for him. That is impressive! There are always exceptions... Of course every situation is different, but there are generalities. I'm pretty sure they were talking in general terms and don't feel they (USA Hockey and more than 15 D1 colleges) had any reason to lie about what they look for. Exceptional kids with Superior Hockey skill (like the Patrick Kane example they used), or Super Gifted Smart (like your example) are not the norm.
Also, just to more information. Harvard is an Ivy league school. Just like Dartmouth, Princeton, Yale, Columbia, Cornell, Brown, UPenn, etc. Ivy Leagueschools provide financial aid to students, including athletes, only on the basis of financial need as determined by each institution's Financial Aid Office. There are no academic or athletic scholarships in theIvy League. This does not mean the example you gave did not get a "ride" due to financial need and possibly a scholarship from a 3rd party group, but they did not get from the College. I spoke directly to the Dartmouth Head Coach who also indicated that most kids will need a couple years in Junior Hockey before advancing to NCAA. This was noted by someone else as well. Further he indicated for Dartmouth (he did not confirm all Ivy League, but he believed it to be true for those schools as well), any college courses taken during those say 2 years of Junior Hockey at a local college will NOT be transferable. This is specific to IVY/Dartmouth but I found interesting.
....so what your saying is my kids 2 5 gpa with "marginal" hockey skills, in addition that he is a wop-sican (probably won't reach 5"10) won't be enough to get him a D1 ride ?.......that's fucked up. :(
Btw.......you guys are idiots.....
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You should ask yourself where do you see your son after Highschool , do. you think those improved
Gpa will make him a success at MIT or other Ivy League colleges ? I doubt, will he be the next Patrick Kane I doubt as well so enjoy the ride while it lasts. As for ML, he was a great coach who attracted top players at his tryouts at the wave 6 or more years ago. Times have changed and him jumping ship to become THA coach mid season and leaving other kids stranded was not a classy move. But I guess Leo wrote a big enough check for ML throw is integrity out the door.
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You should ask yourself where do you see your son after Highschool , do. you think those improved
Gpa will make him a success at MIT or other Ivy League colleges ? I doubt, will he be the next Patrick Kane I doubt as well so enjoy the ride while it lasts. As for ML, he was a great coach who attracted top players at his tryouts at the wave 6 or more years ago. Times have changed and him jumping ship to become THA coach mid season and leaving other kids stranded was not a classy move. But I guess Leo wrote a big enough check for ML throw is integrity out the door.
I think that ML left the Wave before last season. Very disappointed on how things went. On many levels.
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Hipcheck34-Sounds like a good situation-Who does THA play against? Other prep schools?
Yes the do play other prep schools. You can go to there website and look at the schedules for both teams..
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You forgot to mention how much school was missed. Take the 18k. send your kid to a college prep school with ice hockey....he will get exposed to the hockey world but will also get a AAA education and priceless life lessons. IMHO
Thanks for posting. Truly useful.
I agree this will be the second year my son will be attending THA and his GPA went from a average 2.6 to a 3.6. Gets to be on the ice 5 days a week 2 hours a day. 55 plus games. THA had a lot of ups and downs but with the main facility and dorms completed this year and affiliation with a Jr program this year will be a huge step forward and my son is very excited about going back. This is the first summer that he has worked so hard on his off ice training program. As a 6'3 265lb defenseman and still growing I think he is going to surprise his coaches when they go back in August....
Having any kid on the ice that amount of time is going to make ANY kid better. ML is a hell of a coach but he's not for everyone (no coddling there)
But come on.....gpa going up in an online school is nothing to get a hard on about.
I can home school my kid and his gpa can go from 3.5 to 4.2 also. Doubt MIT would be breaking down my door.
Good thing my kid doesn't want to go to MIT.....just stating that the online has worked well for my kid. ML is not for every kid but your right excellent coach and my kid respects him and his coaching....
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You should ask yourself where do you see your son after Highschool , do. you think those improved
Gpa will make him a success at MIT or other Ivy League colleges ? I doubt, will he be the next Patrick Kane I doubt as well so enjoy the ride while it lasts. As for ML, he was a great coach who attracted top players at his tryouts at the wave 6 or more years ago. Times have changed and him jumping ship to become THA coach mid season and leaving other kids stranded was not a classy move. But I guess Leo wrote a big enough check for ML throw is integrity out the door.
I think that ML left the Wave before last season. Very disappointed on how things went. On many levels.
We were on one of ML teams at the Wave before he left, he handled it very poorly. No its was not before season had started he was at our first few games then we show up to practice to find out he is out of town for a bit, and an email from him saying its temporary while they look for a new coach for THA. Could have been handled better by him, didn't even talk to the boys.
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I don't know what is personal and financial situation was and you always have to take care of "numero uno" first, but I think his credibility has taken a hit for sure.
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Why all the hostility on this thread? Obviously high academics AND a sport give a kid a competitive advantage. That's not opinion, it's just reality.
My question how do we get Quackers n' Kings to team up with UCLA to get a D1 team in LA?
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Get rich alumni to demand it. Arizona State had a donor give $35 million and now they have a D1 team.
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Why all the hostility on this thread? Obviously high academics AND a sport give a kid a competitive advantage. That's not opinion, it's just reality.
My question how do we get Quackers n' Kings to team up with UCLA to get a D1 team in LA?
Looks like Fresno St is planning on D1 in 3/4 years...they already have facilities built..I think if they pull it off you will see SJSU, UCLA, USC follow
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I can't see a CSU school pulling it off due to their funding. It has to be a private school or maybe a UC, if they get a big enough donor. Most likey it will be USC, because of the kind of money it takes to start a program. I think Penn st got over 100 million donated to them from Terry Pegula for their program.
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Why all the hostility on this thread? Obviously high academics AND a sport give a kid a competitive advantage. That's not opinion, it's just reality.
My question how do we get Quackers n' Kings to team up with UCLA to get a D1 team in LA?
Looks like Fresno St is planning on D1 in 3/4 years...they already have facilities built..I think if they pull it off you will see SJSU, UCLA, USC follow
Thats what they when AZ started D1. Fact is the schools have no incentives ($$) to start a D1 program.
JMO, but I think it would be better served to organize a quality D 2/3 program and build from there.
Just because it's called D1, doesn't make it D1......right BF.....
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I can't see a CSU school pulling it off due to their funding. It has to be a private school or maybe a UC, if they get a big enough donor. Most likey it will be USC, because of the kind of money it takes to start a program. I think Penn st got over 100 million donated to them from Terry Pegula for their program.
No practice rink....Fresno and SJSU have those plus arenas....also the other sports (football, basketball) are D-1....just saying
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i hope you are right, because we are long over due for NCAA hockey in so cal.
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Depends on the kid and the school. I know there is a player on harvard who received a full educational ride based on academics and he was home schooled his entire life from elementary to graduating high school. Each situation is different.
I'm pretty sure we're talking about the same kid, never played higher than AA in CAHA.
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Depends on the kid and the school. I know there is a player on harvard who received a full educational ride based on academics and he was home schooled his entire life from elementary to graduating high school. Each situation is different.
I'm pretty sure we're talking about the same kid, never played higher than AA in CAHA.
If we are talking about the same kid he played AAA Heat.
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There is no D1 hockey west of Colorado except Arizona.
I talked to Stanford and they have D2 but you have to pay to play.
Why Kings and Ducks have not got together with this with UCLA I have no idea (anyone?) but it is ridiculous.
We were looking at Water Polo as a side sport which gives scholarships and is a fine complement to hockey until he dislocated his shoulder twice (U14).
Gonna be interesting, and this is a good topic for the doldrums.
The reason there aren't more D1 or D3 schools playing hockey is the sheer cost of building the rink and running the program. There are strict guidelines for the quality of the building / ice and program overall that requires a school to really need tens of millions of dollars in up front costs to build an NCAA quality rink. The return on investment for the west coast just isn't there, it's not there for most east coast schools at this point so D1 and D3 aren't growing but the number of kids who are skilled enough to play is. That's why they can be more selective and demand higher grades and more experience in juniors.
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Yeah, but at least we have Title 9 and lesbian...err I mean woman's softball is fully funded.
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Stick tap 😆 And please no one go on a PC rant. It was a funny joke!
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Crash- while Puck Yeah was really funny, yours is just flat out STUPID!! :o