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Hockey Discussions => Peewee Hockey => Topic started by: FrozenInSoCal on June 04, 2018, 09:09:27 PM
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How is this division looking for 2018/2019? Thoughts/predictions? Lots of talk about AA and AAA on here, but nothing about A.
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Bakersfeild, Burbank, Ca heat, and mariners will all have pw A teams. Plus all the bigger clubs like kings and ducks.maple leafs and flyers have AA not sure about A.
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Kings PeeWee A1 team haf about 45 kids at tryouts. Roster looks pretty strong.
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Gulls will have 3 Peewee A teams.
Two teams of mostly 06 with a few 07 (coached by Moy and Gartland, repectively)
A mostly 08 (SqBB team from last season) with the 07 from the SqA last season that missed AA cut (coached by Carlyle)
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OCHC will have two Peewee A teams.
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Ice Dogs have a PWA team
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Gulls will have 3 Peewee A teams.
Two teams of mostly 06 with a few 07 (coached by Moy and Gartland, repectively)
A mostly 08 (SqBB team from last season) with the 07 from the SqA last season that missed AA cut (coached by Carlyle)
3 PWA teams from one club seems like a lot...
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21 PWA teams,that's a shitload.
Safe to say a third of the teams will be out of contention by December. :(
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21 PWA teams,that's a shitload.
Safe to say a third of the teams will be out of contention by December. :(
by the end of October
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Gulls will have 3 Peewee A teams.
Two teams of mostly 06 with a few 07 (coached by Moy and Gartland, repectively)
A mostly 08 (SqBB team from last season) with the 07 from the SqA last season that missed AA cut (coached by Carlyle)
3 PWA teams from one club seems like a lot...
It is. But we also have a HUGE 06 group along with a good-sized 07 group. Plus one of those PWA teams is mostly made up of 08's that would have been squirt A.
Who knows, maybe by the end of pre-season, one of them may drop to BB. Hopefully a few others from the division drop as well. Or at least separate the 22 teams into two conferences by geography to save us from driving to friggin Bakersfield.
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Gulls will have 3 Peewee A teams.
Two teams of mostly 06 with a few 07 (coached by Moy and Gartland, repectively)
A mostly 08 (SqBB team from last season) with the 07 from the SqA last season that missed AA cut (coached by Carlyle)
3 PWA teams from one club seems like a lot...
It is. But we also have a HUGE 06 group along with a good-sized 07 group. Plus one of those PWA teams is mostly made up of 08's that would have been squirt A.
Who knows, maybe by the end of pre-season, one of them may drop to BB. Hopefully a few others from the division drop as well. Or at least separate the 22 teams into two conferences by geography to save us from driving to friggin Bakersfield.
I don't pretend to know the kids (or the club) by any stretch, but what's wrong with playing Squirt A. Why the rush to jump from Squirt BB to PWA? I guess playing up into PW is the new normal....
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The last few years the Gulls have been giving the club formerly known as the wildcats a run for their money in terms of icing teams extra teams that aren't up to the level of competition. Anyone who thinks that their kid is going to make more progress playing PWA instead of Squirt A hasn't been following socal hockey. The Squirt A division has been one of the most sensible and competitive going on 4-5 years now. PWA has way too many teams.
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Gulls will have 3 Peewee A teams.
Two teams of mostly 06 with a few 07 (coached by Moy and Gartland, repectively)
A mostly 08 (SqBB team from last season) with the 07 from the SqA last season that missed AA cut (coached by Carlyle)
3 PWA teams from one club seems like a lot...
It is. But we also have a HUGE 06 group along with a good-sized 07 group. Plus one of those PWA teams is mostly made up of 08's that would have been squirt A.
Who knows, maybe by the end of pre-season, one of them may drop to BB. Hopefully a few others from the division drop as well. Or at least separate the 22 teams into two conferences by geography to save us from driving to friggin Bakersfield.
I don't pretend to know the kids (or the club) by any stretch, but what's wrong with playing Squirt A. Why the rush to jump from Squirt BB to PWA? I guess playing up into PW is the new normal....
Shrug. Gulls SqA team last year wasn't "challenged enough" at Squirt A, and the HC felt that the team probably should have played PWA. While the top 4 teams were all really close, teams 5-9 were a pretty big drop down, and the bottom 3 or 4 probably would have been better off in BB... but then again the Gulls BB team that went 14-1 would get shelled anytime our SQA team scrimmaged with them, so who knows what could have happened.
Regardless, it's pretty much the same as any other division, it's just more pronounced in a 22 team conference as opposed to a 12 team conference. This 08 team is very similar, if smaller. The belief amongst the coaches is that at least in PWA, those 08's will at least be challenged every game by bigger, stronger kids. And that extra challenge will better prepare them as a PWAA team for next season. At least that's the reasoning I've been told...
But I get it. I personally support no playing up at all, for a whole host of reasons, but it is what it is, and the coaches are doing their best to put the kids on a team and in a division in which they belong.
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I realize that my comment could be misinterpreted. In my experience, the Gulls #1 team in divisions have been solid and competitive. It's really the 2-n teams that often begin the season punching way too high.
I also can understand that it's not always possible to really gauge where a team is at when the season starts, but by the same token most of the Gulls teams that I took issue with were playing up.
For just about every division, there are going to 2-3 teams that are better than most everyone else, 4-8 teams that will compete in the end of year playoffs, and maybe 10-11 that are in the hunt for an 8 playoff race. Everyone else is category #4 (playing out the string).
Having a PWA division where there are many more teams in category 3 and a lot of teams that are in category 4, just means that your chances of playing games against those teams is much higher, and the overall percentage of playing those games is higher.
If your team is truly capable of playing up and being a category 1 & 2 team in a PWA 20+ division, then PWA makes sense. I just haven't seen it. Case in point, Gulls 2 PWAA last season, dropped to PWA and didn't even make the playoffs.
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I realize that my comment could be misinterpreted. In my experience, the Gulls #1 team in divisions have been solid and competitive. It's really the 2-n teams that often begin the season punching way too high.
I also can understand that it's not always possible to really gauge where a team is at when the season starts, but by the same token most of the Gulls teams that I took issue with were playing up.
For just about every division, there are going to 2-3 teams that are better than most everyone else, 4-8 teams that will compete in the end of year playoffs, and maybe 10-11 that are in the hunt for an 8 playoff race. Everyone else is category #4 (playing out the string).
Having a PWA division where there are many more teams in category 3 and a lot of teams that are in category 4, just means that your chances of playing games against those teams is much higher, and the overall percentage of playing those games is higher.
If your team is truly capable of playing up and being a category 1 & 2 team in a PWA 20+ division, then PWA makes sense. I just haven't seen it. Case in point, Gulls 2 PWAA last season, dropped to PWA and didn't even make the playoffs.
ID, I already read your Gone With The Wind lllloooonnnnngggg opinions on the bantan side. Please dont have me waste all morning reading your long ass rants on the PWA side also, ( i have an 07 and an 04).
Write your novel.....eeerrrrr opinions down, take it to the edit
room snd cut that shit by 2/3rds. You hsve decent points, but fffuuuuck !!
Im going to the DMV later, ill read your above novel in line.
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Icadad, I'm pretty sure it was the Saints (2) that dropped to PWA and missed the playoffs last year.
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Icadad, I'm pretty sure it was the Saints (2) that dropped to PWA and missed the playoffs last year.
Yep. Gulls AA2 stuck in AA and mostly got their butts kicked. The makeup of that AA2 team is very similar to this year's AA2 team. The core of the previous year's SQA, plus a few under-age over-achievers and sprinkle in a few 2nd year PW players that didn't make the AA1 team. With the players lost to AA1 and the JD AAA minor, this year's PWAA2 team will likely struggle as well.
Probably pretty similar at most larger programs.
As for the multiple Gulls teams in divisions, ICA is partially correct. When we have 3 teams in one division, usually one of them is near the top, one in the middle, and one struggles. Also, pretty similar results at JK and JD when they field 3 teams in a division. Not sure why you think the Gulls are the only one.
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So... We're new to this and we were wondering... we keep on hearing that PW AA teams might be forced to drop to A, how does that affect kids already in A? Does it?
Also, which teams are playing which tournaments this Labor Day?
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So... We're new to this and we were wondering... we keep on hearing that PW AA teams might be forced to drop to A, how does that affect kids already in A? Does it?
It doesn't affect the teams declared for A. Independently they will be evaluated whether they should be A/BB/B.
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I'm sure there will be a few A teams that drop to BB too...
Pre-season will show a lot of teams where they belong, and they will make their decisions near the end of September. Most relegations are willing ones that the programs ask for themselves. Very few are "forced" by CAHA/SCAHA.
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Looks like most teams are either playing The Early Bird (Rinks) or Tinseltown. Should give everyone a good preview.
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Last year there were some scrimmages scheduled with top level A teams for the teams on the AA/A bubble. Seems like a pretty good way to know if the team is under pressure to drop.
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I'm sure there will be a few A teams that drop to BB too...
Pre-season will show a lot of teams where they belong, and they will make their decisions near the end of September. Most relegations are willing ones that the programs ask for themselves. Very few are "forced" by CAHA/SCAHA.
Maybe "forced" was too strong a word... Suggested or strongly recommended to drop.
Thanks for clarifying though. I've heard of parents being really upset about dropping or the opposite, unhappy that they insisted in staying in a division. I just wasn't sure how that really worked and how or who really made the decision.
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The one reason a lot of teams are reluctant to drop (even when they totally should) is because dropping down a division allows families to change teams without prejudice if they so desire. It basically voids the letter of intent they signed with the team, and allows them to switch. When a team drops, and mom and dad think their little Gretzky is too good for the lower division, they typically leave the team and join up somewhere else.
On the flipside, few teams want to move up either, because they'd rather sandbag in a lower division, than be a mid-table or lower table team in a division up.
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Any teams have scrimmages?
Jr Ducks 1 beat Jr Ducks 3 by score of 2-1 on Saturday. It was a close game with good competition between the teams.
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Any teams have scrimmages?
Jr Ducks 1 beat Jr Ducks 3 by score of 2-1 on Saturday. It was a close game with good competition between the teams.
which Ducks is the 08 team playing up? Duck 3?
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Any teams have scrimmages?
Jr Ducks 1 beat Jr Ducks 3 by score of 2-1 on Saturday. It was a close game with good competition between the teams.
which Ducks is the 08 team playing up? Duck 3?
Yes, Ducks 3.
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Any teams have scrimmages?
Jr Ducks 1 beat Jr Ducks 3 by score of 2-1 on Saturday. It was a close game with good competition between the teams.
which Ducks is the 08 team playing up? Duck 3?
Yes, Ducks 3.
So assuming Ducks 1 would be the better of the 3 teams, sounds like the little guys did pretty damn good. this weekend should be a good barometer for all the teams.
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Any teams have scrimmages?
Jr Ducks 1 beat Jr Ducks 3 by score of 2-1 on Saturday. It was a close game with good competition between the teams.
which Ducks is the 08 team playing up? Duck 3?
Yes, Ducks 3.
So assuming Ducks 1 would be the better of the 3 teams, sounds like the little guys did pretty damn good. this weekend should be a good barometer for all the teams.
Ducks 1 is mostly '07s with 2 or 3 '06s if I remember correctly. So it's not a stretch if the '08s did well against them. That '08 team has played in Canada before, if they're still the same players.
But yes, both teams looked good when we scrimmaged with them before we signed with our team.
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Looks like Kings 1, Gulls 2 and Wave 1 are all off to a good start. It will be interesting to see how things finish-up for the preseason standings come Oct 1st. Any info on any teams potentially dropping? There are 22 teams in this division with four teams at 0-2.
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Based off what I've seen in the local Labor Day Tournaments and pre-season. It looks like Wave 1 & Kings 1 will be the teams to beat in the up coming season. Some of the watered down PWAA teams should be moved down and they know who they are.
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Flights for PWAA are published already on CAHA and if I remember correctly it's only Flyers from SoCal that drops to PWA. OC stayed in Flight II
Do not think any teams will be dropped from PWA - but maybe...
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Kudos to the Kings 1 coaching staff yesterday. They were losing 3-0 to the Heat in the first period, when the coaching staff made one adjustment, which turned the game around completely, with the Kings dominating the Heat the rest of the way. I was impressed that the coaches picked up on what the Heat were doing and made the adjustment. Rarely do you see coaches at this level that can make adjustments during the game.
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I'm not surprised by the Kings 1 adjustments against the Heat. They will be a solid team all year. Does anyone know anything about that Wave 1 team? They just keep winning.
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OK, early season predictions:
Play-off teams Kings 1, Ducks 2, Wave 1, Gulls 1 and 2, Heat
Fighting for last 2 play-off spots (VERY dependable on schedule) - in no particular order - Empire, OC2, Goldrush 1 and 2, Condors, Bears, Mariners.
And Flyers if/when dropped from AA.
If schedule gets really tough for the first 6 teams - say, e.g. Heat - then there will be 3 (or more) open spots left...
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I'm not surprised by the Kings 1 adjustments against the Heat. They will be a solid team all year. Does anyone know anything about that Wave 1 team? They just keep winning.
Wave1 have 2 kids who could/should be playing AA. They're big, skilled and smart with the puck. They also have a number of other large 06 kids. They have 2 goalies, both of whom are large and play very well.
Gulls 3 (predominantly 08s) was outshot by a 2-1 ratio, but definitely had their chances. They only lost 3-1, though the gulls one goal was on a penalty shot.
I think their main weakness is speed. Get a good team with some burners and it will trouble wave 1.
As for those playoff predictions, I would put Gulls1 above Gulls 2, and I would put Gulls3 on the bubble.... but you're right, it really depends on strength of schedule.
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SD Dad, your response has some validation to it. I watched some of the Labor Day Tournament games at TSC. That Wave 1 team has some good players who are playing in the right division (PWA). Maybe some of the PWAA teams that are currently overwhelmed need to move down and some of these 08's need more seasoning in SQA? "Playing up is not an exact science"
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I'm not surprised by the Kings 1 adjustments against the Heat. They will be a solid team all year. Does anyone know anything about that Wave 1 team? They just keep winning.
Wave1 have 2 kids who could/should be playing AA. They're big, skilled and smart with the puck. They also have a number of other large 06 kids. They have 2 goalies, both of whom are large and play very well.
Gulls 3 (predominantly 08s) was outshot by a 2-1 ratio, but definitely had their chances. They only lost 3-1, though the gulls one goal was on a penalty shot.
I think their main weakness is speed. Get a good team with some burners and it will trouble wave 1.
As for those playoff predictions, I would put Gulls1 above Gulls 2, and I would put Gulls3 on the bubble.... but you're right, it really depends on strength of schedule.
All about strength of schedule. Sucks all the teams can’t play against each other. Wish there were a way to either limit number of teams in a division or add more games. Wave 2 tied condors and oc2, and have bears this weekend, all of which are bubble teams according to previous poster. Should they also be considered bubble? Again, strength of schedule. Let’s wait until schedule comes out before making more predictions.
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Oldman hockey what did the kings coaching adjust vs the heat. What was the heat doing?
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Laking2018...I wouldn't do that to the Heat. I wouldn't put that information out there. The coaches of the teams playing the Heat will have to figure it out. My post was just a statement on how I was impressed that the Kings coaching staff picked up on it. Rarely do I see any coaches at this level being capable of seeing something and making adjustments during the game.
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Laking2018...I wouldn't do that to the Heat. I wouldn't put that information out there. The coaches of the teams playing the Heat will have to figure it out. My post was just a statement on how I was impressed that the Kings coaching staff picked up on it. Rarely do I see any coaches at this level being capable of seeing something and making adjustments during the game.
I think there are plenty of coaches who can pick out what a team is doing and knows what adjustments can be made to counter. The problems lies in getting 12-20 nine to twelve year olds to understand what the coach is saying when he tries to adjust. Having coached this age before, I know first-hand that you can give your youth players a clear, concise and simple instruction, to which they will nod and shout "yes coach!" .... and then run out onto the field and do the exact opposite of what you just told them to do. You're simply herding cats until they get to high school and can understand and make adjustments on the fly at least part of the time.
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Laking2018...I wouldn't do that to the Heat. I wouldn't put that information out there. The coaches of the teams playing the Heat will have to figure it out. My post was just a statement on how I was impressed that the Kings coaching staff picked up on it. Rarely do I see any coaches at this level being capable of seeing something and making adjustments during the game.
I think there are plenty of coaches who can pick out what a team is doing and knows what adjustments can be made to counter. The problems lies in getting 12-20 nine to twelve year olds to understand what the coach is saying when he tries to adjust. Having coached this age before, I know first-hand that you can give your youth players a clear, concise and simple instruction, to which they will nod and shout "yes coach!" .... and then run out onto the field and do the exact opposite of what you just told them to do. You're simply herding cats until they get to high school and can understand and make adjustments on the fly at least part of the time.
You just need more kids, when they do not listen roll lines.
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At PWA coach should already be rolling lines :-\
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So Flyers (formerly AA) are shown in PWA now for regular season, and Oilers 2 (formerly BB). looks like no one dropped out of PWA, 24 teams now. The post season for some teams is really going to depend on the schedule now!
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OCHC1, Reign & Saints should be moved to PWBB as well?
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OK, I did some rough after-schedule projections and came up with the following:
I separated teams into play-off teams (now they are - Kings 1, Wave 1, Heat, Ducks 2, Gulls 2), "tough" teams (OC2, Wave 2, Gulls 1, Goldrush2, Flyers - have no idea on them, just based on their drop-off from AA), wanna-be play-off teams (Mariners, Bears, Ice Dogs, Goldrush1, Gulls 3, Condors, Empire), and finally participants - all the rest (7 teams)
Also - not sure what to make of Lady Ducks as now teams that play them have 16 games scheduled and teams that do not play them have 15. Does it mean those games do not count?...
Anyway, Heat has the best schedule out of top 5 teams - just 4 games with tier 1-2 and 12 with other teams. Ducks 2 - toughest schedule - 8/8.
Flyers have the best tier-2 schedule 4-12 (6 games with tier-3 though), GR2 - 5-10 with only 4 games out of 10 with "wanna-bees", having 6 easy games. Wave 2 here have toughest schedule - 7-9 (7 games with top-2 tiers)
In tier-3 Empire, Ice Dogs and Gulls 3 are luckiest - 6-9 (or 10 if to include Lady Ducks) and Dogs with Empire have only 3 games vs their own tier (Gulls 3 have 4). Goldrush1 drew bad luck here - 10-5 (10 games with top 10 teams - not missing anyone).
What all this mean? Top 5 teams should easily qualify (well, Ducks 2 could not lose points to tier-3 and lower teams and need to win half of tough teams - quite probable). Next 3 play-off teams should come out of Flyers (again, have no idea how the team looks like - I know they lost their best players from Squirt A level), Gulls 1, Goldrush 2, OC2 and if chips falls right - Empire and Ice Dogs. Wave 2 and Gulls 3 somewhere in close pursuit. 22-24 points should be play-off barrier. If tier-2 teams won't be having too many upsets from tier-3 teams - then play-off level shifts towards 24+
That's my prediction - it is not set in stone and teams are yet to play. Would be nice to see if any "wanna-bees" make a run and challenge tier-2 teams. Tier-2 - with such a different schedule - fluctuating from 4-12 (12 being easier games) to 7-9 - could find themselves in different spots in standings.
Games start this weekend!
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Correct games against the LD's are exhibition games and will not count towards a teams win-loss record. However it is my understanding that the stats do count for the individual players.
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Alfirst, nice season predictions. At the end of the year the cream will rise to the top. Kings 1, Wave 1 and Flyers will battle for the top spot in the division.
Ducks 2 will follow close behind (The upset team). The rest of the division is irrelevant.
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Correct games against the LD's are exhibition games and will not count towards a teams win-loss record. However it is my understanding that the stats do count for the individual players.
I believe at the PW level the LD do count. They did last year which was the first year that has happened. That team went to the playoffs. At Bantam it is only exhibition.
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Exactly. The reason they don't count at Bantam is because the rule set of those games is incompatible: Bantam boys is full check and girls is no check, so the games have to be played no check.
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I believe at the PW level the LD do count. They did last year which was the first year that has happened. That team went to the playoffs. At Bantam it is only exhibition.
Well, if they do count - then some teams have 16 games and some 15 - so point wise it's not equal - they will have to deal with it somehow
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Last season the LD's did compete at PWA, this year they are playing as an exhibition team only in order to have the flexibility to travel for girls tournaments with out having to forfeit games like they had to do last season.
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Well, if they do count - then some teams have 16 games and some 15 - so point wise it's not equal - they will have to deal with it somehow
There is a process to eliminate random extra games. It can yield some strange results. See: Last year's squirt BB playoffs.
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OK,
So 1st regular week is behind us and not knowing just Kings 1 result we can state that everything goes as "planned" - teams in 1st tier won vs teams below, teams in 2nd won as well (there was a tie in the only match up within that tier). And teams in a 3rd tier mostly lost while in the only in-tier match-up Mariners got a win.
One correction to my play-off point prediction - now as it looks like Lady Ducks do not count - 15 games per each team - then it should be 20-22 points play-off barrier, not 22-24.
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OK, 2nd week went by a script as well - tier 1 winning vs 2, 2 vs 3, 3 vs 4 with one exception - GR1 beat OC(2), and the latter probably does not belong to tier 2 - more like to tier 3 (there were some roster changes, I guess, figuring out who's playing AA and A in between Jamboree and regular season which might have depleted OC (2) A team).
Also, the only game between tier 1 teams ended up with Ducks 2 win vs Gulls 2. So the team with the toughest schedule among upper tier wins second game in a row now.
Games with Lady Ducks are accounted for in SCAHA standings - so if they do not count for play-off purposes, we need to do math exercise each time we look at it - for now Wave 1 and Ducks 1 got 2 extra points.
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Alfirst, once again the only teams to watch are Kings 1, Wave 1, Flyers and JD 2 (the upset team). The rest of the PWA division will battle to stay above 500 and at least of the half of the division will finish with losing records at the completion of the season. Thank you CAHA for allowing PWA caliber kids try to play up and tread water.
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You might be right - but that does not mean other teams do not have their agenda or "project" to fulfill. And there are 8 play-off places - so there's some room there.
Plus, it is somewhat interesting to see how pre-season predictions play out and which teams would be able to progress the most towards the end of the season
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Alfirst, "You are correct" The deluded PWA division, a team with 5 wins at the end of the season can make the playoffs and then immediately exit the playoffs in the 1st round. I've seen it happen last year. What next SCAHA will hand out participation medals for showing up? Thank you again CAHA for watering down the division.
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Thank you again CAHA for watering down the division.
Did I miss something? How did CAHA water down PWA?
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Rats13 "Apparently you did" Have you watched some of those embellished PWAA teams?
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In my modest estimation to qualify for play-offs a team would need 20-22 points. So 5 wins won't be enough.
In addition to the teams you mentioned I consider Gulls 2 and Heat top tier + there are some other teams that definitely would make a run. As for the play-offs - it's 6 months away so we will see - though Wave 1 is a team to beat for sure.
2 Flight in AA would make A division stronger but we have 24 teams without it - so then bottom 5-10 need to be sent down B etc.etc.
Guess it is what it is...
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Alfirst, Your RIGHT about the Heat. They could be #5 in the PWA division? Your giving the Gulls 2 "Too much Credit" They didn't do well in the Early Bird Tournament, played a WEAK pre-season schedule and LOST to JD 2 last Sunday 3 to 2.
PWAA Flights 1 & 2 have 17 teams combined. Based off the talent they should have only one flight of maybe 8 teams? Not allow 08 teams to be in the division and only play up in PWA. This would create a trickle down effect and make all the PW divisions stronger and better quality hockey at that level. Its screwing up the true development of 10,11 & 12 yrs old's.
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I tend to agree on the latter - division building and play-up.
As for the Heat - they have the weakest schedule on paper for the top teams so could end higher than 5.
Gulls 2 - losing 2-3 to similar team is not that bad, isn't it? And I am not sure what team participated in that Early Bird, Gulls have a tendency to mix up teams during those
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Alfirst, "I love the optimism" I suggest checking the Early Bird tournament Roster with the SCAHA roster. Its the same team! Its okay for the Heat to ride the weak schedule into the playoffs. Then they will eventually face the REAL teams in the division (Kings 1, Wave 1 & Flyers) = early exit in the SCAHA playoffs.
The reality of the Gulls (a very good youth hockey organization). They should only have 2 PWA teams, 06 & 07's and a 08's that can play at the A level? I watched the Gulls 1 team at TSC and they had some good players but a short bench. If they had a few more players on the roster, they would be stronger in the 3rd period?
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2 Cups in LA, I suspect you're a Flyers parent because your statement that the Flyers are one of the REAL teams is a little illogical since they ties OC(2), a team that Alfirst rated as one of the tier 3 teams.
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Flyers a real team? Why are they a real team?
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"Old Man Hockey" Not a Flyer parent, just observer. I could be wrong about the Flyers? They tried to play in the PWAA division and decided to play were they belong. Then again Flight II shouldn't exist. Have you watched any of those games? "Its PWA hockey with an ego"
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Then again Flight II shouldn't exist. Have you watched any of those games? "Its PWA hockey with an ego"
I like to call it A+
The bottom half of flight II teams in every division should drop to A
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Admittedly I haven't watch any PW games this year but I think PWA/AA has always had that level of variance. Look in past year's A & AA standings there is typically a clump of teams at the top and a clump at the bottom.
IMO teams being in the wrong division is on the Clubs, coaches and parents. You should have a pretty good idea of what level of roster you have. CAHA just started trying to police this with the flight system and have had mixed results at best. It's easy to say but "move teams down" but in reality I think it's hard because it only takes a few families who have kids who can or think the can play at the higher level to make it all go south fast.
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Alfirst, "I love the optimism" I suggest checking the Early Bird tournament Roster with the SCAHA roster. Its the same team! Its okay for the Heat to ride the weak schedule into the playoffs. Then they will eventually face the REAL teams in the division (Kings 1, Wave 1 & Flyers) = early exit in the SCAHA playoffs.
The reality of the Gulls (a very good youth hockey organization). They should only have 2 PWA teams, 06 & 07's and a 08's that can play at the A level? I watched the Gulls 1 team at TSC and they had some good players but a short bench. If they had a few more players on the roster, they would be stronger in the 3rd period?
Gulls 1 had a short bench because they had a few injuries, and those injuries included some strong players. Gulls 1 is definitely the class of the 3. And Gulls 3 (the mostly 08 team, playing up) will play Gulls 2 this weekend, so we'll know more about where they each stand by Sunday (we haven't even had an informal scrimmage with them so far, which is not the norm).
And for the record, I agree that kids shouldn't be playing up an age group, and would be perfectly happy if those 08's went back to SQ-A and they took the five 07 kids from Gulls 3 and sprinkled them into the other two Gulls teams. But that's not what the reality is this year. We've got 3 teams (that I'm aware of) that are predominantly 08s in a 24 team PWA division... meanwhile SQA has 7 teams. And you think it's PWA that's watered down?
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Admittedly I haven't watch any PW games this year but I think PWA/AA has always had that level of variance. Look in past year's A & AA standings there is typically a clump of teams at the top and a clump at the bottom.
IMO teams being in the wrong division is on the Clubs, coaches and parents. You should have a pretty good idea of what level of roster you have. CAHA just started trying to police this with the flight system and have had mixed results at best. It's easy to say but "move teams down" but in reality I think it's hard because it only takes a few families who have kids who can or think the can play at the higher level to make it all go south fast.
The problem is as a parent and a player you join a team from a reputable club with the expectation that they will field a competitive team. With the way that the tryout and LOI system is set up in California, you have little ability to make that determination yourself and then you are stuck with the LOI. You have to buy yourself out of the contract to move clubs. If a club fields a AA team that is an A team and it drops and true AA players from that team go elsewhere, then that is on the club. It really is not fair to the kids who are higher level players to be stuck on a team that is not at their level. If teams imploded more because the clubs field uncompetitive teams, then clubs would be more careful to field competitive teams at the appropriate level.
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Then again Flight II shouldn't exist. Have you watched any of those games? "Its PWA hockey with an ego"
I like to call it A+
The bottom half of flight II teams in every division should drop to A
I don't disagree, the Flight II and some of the Flight I PWAA teams would have their hands full playing the top PWA teams.
The problem is that in a 24 team PWA division, there would be (and currently are) at least 10-12 teams that routinely get smoked. If you are not going to have a true preseason/evaluation period to assign the teams to the correct divisions, then you end up with 1/3 of your games against teams that can't compete.
I'll take the PWAA Flight II schedule knowing the extra $$ is at least providing a full slate of competitive games (and more importantly additional practice time). Then hopefully we add in a few scrimmage games against the top PWA teams so we can get properly schooled.
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2 Cups in LA, I've watched Pee Wee games for many years, all across the country. Unfortunately in California, and many other places as well, the push for AA & AAA teams is entirely led by the parents. In the Southern California area there are maybe two true AA teams, the rest should be playing A, BB & B. The clubs are more than happy to placate the parents by putting together teams with the double and triple letters, as it means more money for the clubs and coaches that can make a living coaching amateur hockey. Do you realize that in Canada there is no such thing as paying coaches to coach? Coaching, even at the AA and AAA level is purely on a volunteer basis. There is a big raucous in Canada right now because a Midget coach told the parents they had to each pay him $300 to coach their kids for the season. He told them it was because the coaching was taking away from his job. The parents complained to the amateur association of Hockey Canada and he had to withdraw his request or quit. The statement that Hockey Canada made is that they did not want to start a precedence of parents paying for coaching. Hence the reason why the season fees to pay travel hockey in Canada are about $700.
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Give it a rip, the flight II PWAA teams are afraid to play a PWA team in a scrimmage in fear they will lose and face the reality they're really a PWA team.
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Give it a rip, the flight II PWAA teams are afraid to play a PWA team in a scrimmage in fear they will lose and face the reality they're really a PWA team.
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Give it a rip, the flight II PWAA teams are afraid to play a PWA team in a scrimmage in fear they will lose and face the reality they're really a PWA team.
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Is it true that the Maple Leafs PWAA scrimmaged the Bears PWA this past weekend? Anyone know the score?
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"The problem is as a parent and a player you join a team from a reputable club with the expectation that they will field a competitive team. With the way that the tryout and LOI system is set up in California, you have little ability to make that determination yourself and then you are stuck with the LOI. You have to buy yourself out of the contract to move clubs. If a club fields a AA team that is an A team and it drops and true AA players from that team go elsewhere, then that is on the club. It really is not fair to the kids who are higher level players to be stuck on a team that is not at their level. If teams imploded more because the clubs field uncompetitive teams, then clubs would be more careful to field competitive teams at the appropriate level."
Bingo; we've got a winner
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Pucks, 5 goals for and 65 against at about the time of the CAHA decision isn't just about winning but appropriate level of team placement. I doubt that there are many parents or kids who, when asked, would say they love to have their a$$ handed to them every time they went on the ice. It is also about development playing with teammates who challenge you at each practice, who have skills appropriate for the level of play, and relatively even competition in games. There were clearly parents on that 5-65 team who wanted to extra A without fully understanding what that level of competition.
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So I guess the pee wee A thread is the place to be. A lot of stuff being thrown around here. I wanted to comment on releases. Unless something has changed this year, a player does not have a right to release just because they prefer to be on a better team. I know a parent or two who wanted a release for that very reason this season and were denied releases.
I would also disagree with the comment that parents have little ability to determine a teams competitiveness before signing an LOI. It’s all right in front of you during spring skates, tournament rosters and tournament results. Particularly by the time your kid has reached AA, you should have a pretty good handle on the skill level of the players who are trying out for the team are. I would also suggest that is very difficult to put together a competitive AA team in one spring.
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Yes you can get a release by December 1st. You just have to cite the rule to them. It is called a player drop from the team.
There is no such rule, so I don't know what you are referring to. First of all, "dropping" is not technically the same as leaving one club to join another. Dropping in general refers to the case where a kid quits hockey at least for the season and doesn't want to play anymore. Then there is the case of "changing teams" which requires and is referred to as a "release". Of course there is also a whole rule section on temporary releases, for players to join other teams purely for tournament play.
What is essentially rubber stamped in the rules is a player leaving a team to go either up or down a division. If you are asking for a release, so that your AA player can join a AAA team, then the club has no claim to stop you. If you want your kid to drop from their AA team to join an A team, then that is also allowed.
At least in the CAHA rules there is a section about seeking a "personal preference" release. To go to another club within a division, you have to have some hardship claim and even then you have to be "released" by your club. The club can take as long as 14 days to even answer a request for a release, and even within that context the club can say no. CAHA and SCAHA are member organizations where the members are the clubs, not the parents. There is no way they want to promote the wild west of parent whimsy, which is why there are LOI's and contracts. They certainly don't want people club hopping within a division. In fact, one of the things you see specifically in the rules is discussion of money owed. Even if a club agrees to release a player, the player can't play anywhere else if the club maintains that the original family owes them money. This is what was being referred to as "buyout".
The December dates are intended to lock down rosters and determine whether or not kids will be playoff eligible.
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So I guess the pee wee A thread is the place to be. A lot of stuff being thrown around here. I wanted to comment on releases. Unless something has changed this year, a player does not have a right to release just because they prefer to be on a better team. I know a parent or two who wanted a release for that very reason this season and were denied releases.
I would also disagree with the comment that parents have little ability to determine a teams competitiveness before signing an LOI. It’s all right in front of you during spring skates, tournament rosters and tournament results. Particularly by the time your kid has reached AA, you should have a pretty good handle on the skill level of the players who are trying out for the team are. I would also suggest that is very difficult to put together a competitive AA team in one spring.
It depends on who shows up for the tryouts. You can have plenty of people at Spring skates and they do not show for tryouts even though they told the coach they would. Off season tournaments are are not a measuring stick most serious kids do not play local off season tournaments.
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Skating Dad: your experience and opinion are completely different than mine regarding Spring. Its just not accurate to say most serious kids don't play local Spring tournaments. For example, go look at the rosters for Carmen Starr at the 06 level and you will have a hard time finding many serious AA players who did not play. I would respectfully suggest that at the pee wee level, if your player and group are not doing spring tournaments, those are pretty significant indications to call into question whether the team will be competitive. If they are doing tournaments, which ones, at what level, and what are the results? If your team/coach/club does not have its act together for Memorial Day, chances are it won't for tryouts the next week or two later. As far as players not showing up en masse, when I have seen that happen, there were warning signs that the coach or remaining families somehow did not see or chose to ignore. It may not always be obvious that player or two may choose to go to a different tryout, but its no secret if your team is or is not attracting skilled players trying to make the team. If its not doing the latter, that is also a pretty good indication that the team's prospects are relatively limited.
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Skating Dad: your experience and opinion are completely different than mine regarding Spring. Its just not accurate to say most serious kids don't play local Spring tournaments. For example, go look at the rosters for Carmen Starr at the 06 level and you will have a hard time finding many serious AA players who did not play. I would respectfully suggest that at the pee wee level, if your player and group are not doing spring tournaments, those are pretty significant indications to call into question whether the team will be competitive. If they are doing tournaments, which ones, at what level, and what are the results? If your team/coach/club does not have its act together for Memorial Day, chances are it won't for tryouts the next week or two later. As far as players not showing up en masse, when I have seen that happen, there were warning signs that the coach or remaining families somehow did not see or chose to ignore. It may not always be obvious that player or two may choose to go to a different tryout, but its no secret if your team is or is not attracting skilled players trying to make the team. If its not doing the latter, that is also a pretty good indication that the team's prospects are relatively limited.
Sorry I am beyond girls hockey forgot where I was posting :) PW is when it starts to change but, it really changes once you start playing real hockey. Players leave CA and go east...
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I would have to AGREE with "the 4th A". Any upsets over the weekend in PWA & PWAA? I don't leave the South Bay area.
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"Off the script" went Mariners-Ducks 2 game - so Mariners now have 3 wins, their schedule is tough but if they continue getting points vs top-tier teams...
Also - now we probably can "officially" downgrade Gulls 2 to 2nd tier and OC 2 to 3rd.
Gulls 3 having beaten Gulls 2 (also, technically "off the script") and Goldrush2 tying Heat - both teams with light schedule going forward - looking to wide open play-off door.
Finally, games vs lady Ducks are called exhibition right now and do not count in the standings so we have correct picture there.
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Give it a rip, the flight II PWAA teams are afraid to play a PWA team in a scrimmage in fear they will lose and face the reality they're really a PWA team.
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Is it true that the Maple Leafs PWAA scrimmaged the Bears PWA this past weekend? Anyone know the score?
Scrimmage was back on 9/29 ended in tie. 3-3
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PWA hockey is hot Garbage.
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Brazzers, Go watch some PWAA games. That is HOT GARAGE at a higher level. Nothing like watching 3 or 4 kids on each team who are true PWAA level players and rest of the bench trying to keep up? Equals "S_ _ _ Show".
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Well, one might argue that European hockey stinks or even some NHL teams suck and you can't watch them as it's a bad product. So that discussion leads us nowhere. I guess, a guy was just throwing it out to start trolling.... or is it a parent from PWAA/AAA team that proudly wears that AA/AAA badge.
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Don’t be jealous.
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And you be "noble" and just enjoy it without trashing others.
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Another week results finally posted in full - and we have 2 "surprise" outcomes - Ducks 1 victory over Gulls 2 - and now I am "officially" downgrading Gulls 2 to third tier leaving only 4 teams at 1st.
Secondly, Ducks 2 (remember, toughest schedule among top-tier teams) after first 2 wins got 2nd loss in a row - now vs Condors (third tier team, winless prior to that game).
Ducks 2 stay at tier 1 but on a "watch list" right now.
Flyers games mysteriously do not count in standings so they are hidden with 0 points close to the bottom.
And games vs Lady Ducks are finally counted as exhibition ones and do not effect the standings.
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Another week results finally posted in full - and we have 2 "surprise" outcomes - Ducks 1 victory over Gulls 2 - and now I am "officially" downgrading Gulls 2 to third tier leaving only 4 teams at 1st.
Secondly, Ducks 2 (remember, toughest schedule among top-tier teams) after first 2 wins got 2nd loss in a row - now vs Condors (third tier team, winless prior to that game).
Ducks 2 stay at tier 1 but on a "watch list" right now.
Flyers games mysteriously do not count in standings so they are hidden with 0 points close to the bottom.
I told you earlier that Gulls 1 was definitely better than Gulls 2. Gulls 3 is better than Gulls 2 for that matter too. The Gulls 1 result against Oilers surprised me (only won 4-3 in a game I expected to be a blowout). Honestly, I think there is a little more parity that exists in the top half of the table than many here believe. That's a good thing. The Flyers look tough with their blowout wins, but their tie game with OCHC2 is a head-scratcher.
Regarding the Flyers website issues, an email to the SCAHA statistician can usually straighten out stuff like this (games/records not showing up, forfeits not being tallied correctly, etc). They happen every year, and SCAHA is blissfully unaware of any of them until they are pointed out by users.
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Alfirst, After week 4, no surprises in the standings. Kings 1, Wave 1 and Flyers (2-0-1) will be battling it out for 1st in the division ALL year. Gulls 1, Mariner's, Heat and Ducks 2 will do their best to stay up with the BIG BOYS. The rest of PWA is irrelevant.
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Alfirst, After week 4, no surprises in the standings. Kings 1, Wave 1 and Flyers (2-0-1) will be battling it out for 1st in the division ALL year. Gulls 1, Mariner's, Heat and Ducks 2 will do their best to stay up with the BIG BOYS. The rest of PWA is irrelevant.
You guys are sure giving the Flyers alot of credit considering they tied one of the worst teams in the league OCHC 2. And that tie came after playing jamboree and 3 preseason games at AA level. After seeing the OCHC team and how slow they are I dont see how any team that is a contender would tie them.
I dont disagree Wave 1 and Kings 1 are going to be in the top of the division at end of season However I would put the top 8 as follows
1, Wave 1
2. Kings 1
3. Gulls 1
4. Mariners
5. Bears (we will see this weekend they have the test of Wave 1)
6. Flyers (havent played any highly ranked team yet)
7. Heat
8. Goldrush 1
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I already countered on "irrelevance" of the rest of division beyond Wave 1 and Kings 1. Heard btw that Wave 1 has some 06 players that just chose not play AA and "stay low" - so be it. Still, other teams and players have their own tasks at hand and a year to better their game and develop.
Kings 1 will be meeting two Goldrush team in a row - so we will see how that goes. GR2 tied Heat, so they are pretty solid team.
Agree on Gulls 1 vs Gulls 2.
Flyers - as last guy pointed out - are yet to play anybody in tier 1-2.
Mariners and Bears will have some tough games - so I would not put them in play-off picture just yet.
Wave 1, Kings 1 (most likely) and Heat (very easy schedule) can cruise through the regular season - but rest 5 places are wide open right now - for 2-3 tier teams.
Should be interesting (but for the one who calls it "irrelevant")
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Alfirst & Hockeydad30 you both make some valid points "BUT" Lets not give Gulls 1 too much credit just yet (short bench)? Yes, the Flyers dropped out of that PWA+ flight II division and have played some irrelevant PWA teams so far. So has Kings 1, Wave 1 and Mariners.
Living in the South Bay and only watch games at TSC. I watched some of those PWA teams play this year. Yea, some of those kids could play on a PWAA team? Maybe their parents see through PWAA nonsense and realize its still only PWA quality hockey for flight I & II with a few team exceptions who are true PWAA teams?
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Alfirst, After week 4, no surprises in the standings. Kings 1, Wave 1 and Flyers (2-0-1) will be battling it out for 1st in the division ALL year. Gulls 1, Mariner's, Heat and Ducks 2 will do their best to stay up with the BIG BOYS. The rest of PWA is irrelevant.
Cracks me up with the PWA analysis... who plays what level means shit til next year. Cant count on both hands the kids i've seen quit thru bantam and midget. All it means in the end is what level beer league they end up in...gold or silver.
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Maverick "You Nailed it" You see the reality of SCAHA/CAHA and the future of ALL the little Gretzky's!
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Alfirst & Hockeydad30 you both make some valid points "BUT" Lets not give Gulls 1 too much credit just yet (short bench)? Yes, the Flyers dropped out of that PWA+ flight II division and have played some irrelevant PWA teams so far. So has Kings 1, Wave 1 and Mariners.
Living in the South Bay and only watch games at TSC. I watched some of those PWA teams play this year. Yea, some of those kids could play on a PWAA team? Maybe their parents see through PWAA nonsense and realize its still only PWA quality hockey for flight I & II with a few team exceptions who are true PWAA teams?
You hit the puck in the net and why would any parent want to pay $20k-$25k for PWAA hockey is beyond me.
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Hockey is an expensive proposition regardless of the program. Different people are looking for different things out of the sport. Even on the same team you can have a family who is all in on the sport and another one that looks at it as just one of many activities. There are also a lot of differences between the programs in terms of the amount of ice time and off ice training the program involves, as well as the amount of travel and associated costs. 20-25k is more like AAA costs.
There is a lot of fluidity between the divisions, but in general, AA is a faster brand of hockey than A, which is faster than BB, which is faster than B. There are all sorts of circumstances involved in whether or not an individual kid could easily play in a higher division. There are kids who would do well in AAA playing in AA and A most likely.
But there is no doubt in my mind that the average skill level of kids in AA is far higher than the average in A. All you have to do is watch some games back to back to see the difference. As to whether in the long term that difference means much is hard to say, but in general the kids that play in AA stay in that division or move up to AAA, or go to Prep school, while the kids in A often move to High school as soon as they can. LAKSHL JV from what I've seen borders on in house level.
Kid who played AA are better prepared for the speed of the game as they continue on to higher age groups, but certainly it is true that kids who never played AA before Bantam are able to acclimate to AA as time goes on.
I watched a period or so of a Bantam A game last weekend just prior to an AA game. In both games, one team trounced the other. In the A game you could see that some of the players on the better team were talented -- in fact it was quite obvious because they had lots of time to deek around kids and make moves around the net that showed off their skill. In the AA game there was also some skilled plays, but very often the defensive players reacted and the goaltending was substantially better.
Even the losing team would probably have beaten either of the A teams soundly, which is the problem that a lot of teams face when they are a bit too good for A, but not really good enough to be competitive in AA.
In A you can stay competitive with one really good line just by pouring in goals. In AA team depth is far greater, and opportunities to handle the puck along with goals are much harder to come by.
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Great last post!
And for guys bored with "PWA analysis" - it is a simple cure - just do not read it/pay attention. I would think there is an audience on this forum who are interested in what's happening regardless of "miserable" future.
You know, I can lose or quit my job, even relocate to a different country in a couple of years - does it mean my current qualification and pay does not matter? Heck, no. My family is living off that.
So we do have PWA division here where our kids are playing. We have a league (for better or worse), standings, scores etc. And we deal with what we have. Some parents are hands off, some "really into it", majority are somewhere in between.
I think it is OK to concentrate on a current situation without thinking - "oh, 3/4 of the team is done by the age of 14" - as it leads nowhere.
In this particular case - I would deal with tomorrow when it comes.
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"Icedad & Alfirst" Both posts well done and pretty much on point! But lets NOT give AA & AAA too much credit? Yes, the speed is there but not everyone has the true skating, stick handling & shooting ability they should have at that level, especially PW level. Just parents having the ability to throw $25 to $35k a year at it & the free time to get their little wannabe Gretzky's across the US & Canada to play in tournaments.
Once you age out of Bantam, you know if you got the ability for the next level or its back to A division/high school league? Then taking your skills to the adult BEER league! "Nothing like dragging a 12 pack to your 11 pm game".
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To you ivory tower a-holes coming in this thread to take a piss on PW-A hockey, when your kid plays AA or whatever.... F you. Maybe let us have our fun without you crapping all over our enjoyment of the sport. No one here is claiming their kid is the second coming of Wayne. We're just having fun watching our kids play a sport we love too.
Alfirst, I love that you give an effort into breaking down some Power Rankings for PWA, even if you sell my kid's team short every week, I still appreciate the effort.
This thread isn't about which kid is going to disappear once full checking is allowed next year (or two, or three years for some!). It's about THIS season of PWA.
So if you're not interested, go take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut. This thread ain't for you.
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SD - I knew I have an audience!
And that's exactly to the point - PWA thread is about THIS year PWA. And let the trolls be trolls.
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SD hockey dad “Nice Rantâ€. No need to swear on a family site. Some of us just stating the reality of Of PW divisions. I wish you an enjoyable 18-19 season for you & your little Gretsky!
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10:52PM post time for SD Dad. I know the feeling :o
There were a few.... shocking results today.
Any incite?
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10:52PM post time for SD Dad. I know the feeling :o
There were a few.... shocking results today.
Any incite?
What shocking results? The OC win? That was a surprise.
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"SCAHA Trolls" All of the 1st week of Novembers games have been posted. OC 1 finally won a game of which we all know and are probably surprised? The cream of the division continues to remain at the top. The Gulls teams are NOT what some think they are and the Heat is starting to cool off? Treading water, teams 4 thru 11 in the standings. The rest of the division is irrelevant.
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Agreed, though with Heat again - they have very "permissible" schedule - a loss here and there would not hurt too much. And Gulls are all over the place...
I will "update my rankings" and play-off picture predictions after this week as some important match-up are coming up....
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Is it only me or does someone else picture a face to face conversation between Alfirst and 2 Cups in LA as the semi-final round in the Be All, End All Battle of Air Quotes? Not sure which one wins, but whoever does advances to face Joey Tribbiani in "the final".
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Anyone have the Goldrush (1) vs. JK (1) score?
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SCAHA has posted Wave 1 & Flyers tied 1 to 1. Maybe Flyers are better than some thought "Alfirst & Hockey Dad"?
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So after this week of play I have the following picture - which is somewhat different from early season prognosis:
1. Tier-1 teams - Wave 1, Kings 1, Flyers 1 (moving up from 2-tier), Heat
2. Tier-2 - "tough" teams - Ducks 2 (downgraded from T1), Goldrush 2, Gulls 1
3. Tier-3 - has all others but the weakest teams and disparity in standings could be significant here:
Wave 2 (downgraded from T2), Gulls 2 (downgraded from T1 - my fault), Kings 2 (moving up), Goldrush 1, Ice Dogs, Ducks 1 (moving up), Bears, Mariners and Gulls 3
4. Tier-4 - everybody else - notably OC 2 (downgraded from T2 - my initial overestimation again), Empire and Condors downgraded from Tier-3
Standings do not reflect that picture to a full extent - mainly based on the schedule and bye weeks. Say, Kings 2 schedule will be getting tougher.
Play-off picture - first 4 - easy (and Heat + Flyers have the best schedule there)
2nd three - GR2 have the easiest schedule and if they hold their own should qualify.
Ducks 2 - they have the toughest schedule and they are losing points here and there - so will depend on some Tier-3 teams luck schedule and cant' afford to lose anymore points vs Tier-3 teams.
Gulls 1 - big question as schedule is moderately tough and their results do not give a clear message.
So that leaves 1-3 spots for Tier 3 teams to qualify for play-offs. And here there is a room for uncertainties... Wave 2 and GR 1 have the toughest schedules. No one really has the easiest. Kings 2 are doing great right now but their schedule suggests challenges. Gulls 2 surprisingly fell off - and at the risk of being criticized by other user here I might see them in Tier-4 after couple more rounds. Mariners could be a "dark horse" with "lighter" schedule.
And now I think that 18-20 points (more than 20-22) could a play-off threshold.
Anyhow, By Christmas the bottom play-off picture should start to clear out.
P.S. I never underestimated the Flyers - I just did not have the data to evaluate them properly and did not see them play. Tie with Wave 1 is a pretty good sample...
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Alfirst I enjoy your responses. "Homework well done" Apparently the Flyers caught you off guard? Once again the PWA division will come down to Kings 1, Wave 1 and Flyers for the division title and #1 seed in the playoffs. The Gulls 1, Mariners, Heat, GR1 & GR2 will be the bottom feeders of playoff brackets with early exits. The rest of the division should be playing down in PWBB?
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Thank you, and yes, I think that Tier-4 teams should clearly play PWBB - and that would make schedule in PWA "cleaner" - meaning that everyone would play everyone. Right now for 5-8 play-off teams schedule decides too much. But then - as you say if it's just for early exit?... On the other hand - what they should do?
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[font=]Any unusual predictions for the weekend? Seems as though our division tends to be the wild wild west....[/font]
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Not sure about predictions but I can point out some interesting (from standings points of view) match-ups:
Bears - Gulls 2
Wave 2 - Kings 2
Mariners - Goldrush 2
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Alfirst. The valley & southbay teams will win your 3 pickem games. I will probably find time to watch Kings 1 at TSC tomorrow?
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So out of those "marquee" match-ups we have a tie for Bears - Gulls 2, while Kings 2 continue to beat the pres-season "odds" winning now over Wave 2. Still match-ups ahead are tougher.
Goldrush 2 took a step down losing to Mariners - and with that Mariners with relatively light schedule almost guaranteed themselves a play-off spot.
Now - the tournaments...
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Alfirst, Kings 2 once they play some real teams in the division will DROP LIKE ROCK! "We all know who the real teams are in division" Apparently the Bears didn't show up to play a bunch of 08 Gulls 2 team?
Good luck to all who are playing in Thanksgiving Tournaments!
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Gulls 3 is mostly 08 with a few 07. Ended up with yet another tie against a team they should have beat.
Gulls 2 is all 07 plus one 06.
Gulls 1 is all 06, and the strongest of the 3 teams, imo.
And don't bother looking at the Thanksgiving tournament that all three teams are in this week... because, for some brilliant reason, one of the coordinators decided to completely shuffle the numbers for all 3 teams. So 1=3, 3=2, and 2=1. Got it? No... me neither.
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SD Hockey Dad thank you for setting the record straight. I was misinformed about Gulls 2.
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So what happened this past weekend??????????????????????????????????????? Anyone??????
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The PWA division went to play in several different tournaments over the holiday weekend. I chose to stay locally in the south bay and just watch Live Barn. "It was very hard to watch" Our Kings teams didn't perform well except the PWAA1 team that played at TSC. All I know is GR2 beat the Heat in the PWA Championship game!
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So what happened this past weekend? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?? Anyone? ??? ??
In the Early Bird tourney in SD:
Gulls1 won the cup, beating the Ice Dogs in the final.
Gulls2 lost in the semis, as did OilersBB.
Gulls3 got stomped. Though they played well in game 1, they played ok to terri-bad in games 2, 3, and 4. Saints and Oilers (PWA version) rounded out bottom 3.
Oilers (BB version) is much better than the PWA Oilers would probably be one of the better teams in A, but prefer to sandbag in BB where they have scored 75 goals in 7 games. :o ::) One kid who could/should be one of the better players on a AA team, not on BB. And another 3-4 kids who were very solid A players. No one on that team looked out of their depth in an A tourney. They are definitely better than the Oilers team that moved up to PWA.
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I heard that the Wave won the Silver Sticks Regional Qualifier in San Jose.
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I heard that the Wave won the Silver Sticks Regional Qualifier in San Jose.
they did -
https://stats.caha.timetoscore.com/display-schedule.php?stat_class=5&league=18&level=4&conf=3&season=22
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SD Hockey Dad "Congrats on the Gulls 1 Victory" It looks like the Flyers, Bears real A team & Mariners stayed home for the holiday weekend, can anyone confirm that? Apparently the real PWA teams in the division went north to play in a tournament!
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Look at MHR. Bears did play.
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OC Hockey dad I over looked that. Apparently they played in LV PWA tournament against 2 medicore teams the Vacaville Jets & Jr Knights. “Congrats to the Bears†on the Tournament Win!
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I heard that the Wave won the Silver Sticks Regional Qualifier in San Jose.
they did -
https://stats.caha.timetoscore.com/display-schedule.php?stat_class=5&league=18&level=4&conf=3&season=22 (https://stats.caha.timetoscore.com/display-schedule.php?stat_class=5&league=18&level=4&conf=3&season=22)
Happy to see, that team has a good coach.
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SD Hockey Dad "Congrats on the Gulls 1 Victory" It looks like the Flyers, Bears real A team & Mariners stayed home for the holiday weekend, can anyone confirm that? Apparently the real PWA teams in the division went north to play in a tournament!
Flyers did stay home I believe they are planning to play in silver stick AA. Dec 7-9 in Vegas.
Is anyone playing in TSC just after Christmas the 26th -29th?
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I heard teams are pulling out. Also heard that the Canadian team is looking for players to help fill their roster.
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Wow the "real team" (flyers) tied a 17th place team. :'(
Who has the explaination for that game?
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Wow the "real team" (flyers) tied a 17th place team. :'(
Who has the explaination for that game?
That same 17th place team (Empire HC, for those too lazy to look it up on SCAHA), lost to Kings1 by only a goal. The same Kings1 team that most here have anointed as the favorites to win the whole PWA division. Empire, like many PWA teams, has a few players on it that are really good, and then the rest of the roster is filled with decent, but unremarkable players. Some days, they all show up to play, and some days they don't. Maybe the JK team had gas-station sushi before the game? ...or maybe there is a bit more parity in this division than originally thought.
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SDHockeyDad07 "Nice Rant" to nowhere! Keep your eye the fizzling Gulls PWA teams. Your boys had a rough weekend. Don't give Empire too much credit? Every dog has its day, even the Mutts!
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If the Kings 1 is so good, then how the hell did they only beat the last place lowly Saints 4-2? Another bad lunch? Wave is a better team than the Kings. Oh no I forgot to "quote" something...
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Well we are about 1/2 way through the season... biggest surprise so far? Predictions for second half?
It may not hold throughout the rest of the season, but at this stage I'm surprised to see PW A Wave #1 ranked higher than all of the PW AA Flight 2 teams. Kings PW A (#1) are also ranked higher than some of the PW AA Flight 2 teams. Is this normal?
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Maybe they should be playing in PWA division where they belong?
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Well we are about 1/2 way through the season... biggest surprise so far? Predictions for second half?
It may not hold throughout the rest of the season, but at this stage I'm surprised to see PW A Wave #1 ranked higher than all of the PW AA Flight 2 teams. Kings PW A (#1) are also ranked higher than some of the PW AA Flight 2 teams. Is this normal?
Hate to break it to you guys, but the rankings dont mean shit.
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On what basis do you say that? Are you also saying the Wave 1 team doesn't deserve to be ranked as the top team in PW A?
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The coach of that team would tell you the same...
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On what basis do you say that? Are you also saying the Wave 1 team doesn't deserve to be ranked as the top team in PW A?
Experiance.. Not saying they are the best or not.
Thay are a very good team. Could they beat some PW AA teams? Probably. Can they get their asses handed to them by most PW AA teams ?, probably. Rankings are computer algorithms. Few years ago, another Wave team won States. There were a California team that they had beat several times and was still ranked ahead of them. Also a few teams that they had beaten in tournaments that were also ranked higher.
If it makes you feel good, thump your chest for now.
RANKINGS DONT MEAN SHIT
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Maybe you just don't understand the nature of rankings... they aren't guarantees of outcomes... rather they are meant to identify the probabilities of outcomes. With Wave 1 having a record of 23-0-1, and winning their regional Silver Stick tournament, I think it is fair to say they deserve to lead in the SCAHA PW A rankings. It certainly doesn't guarantee they will win any game they play (and there will always be upsets-- that is why the game is played in the first place), but if their ranking is higher than their opponent, then they are more likely to win.
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Maybe you just don't understand the nature of rankings... they aren't guarantees of outcomes... rather they are meant to identify the probabilities of outcomes. With Wave 1 having a record of 23-0-1, and winning their regional Silver Stick tournament, I think it is fair to say they deserve to lead in the SCAHA PW A rankings. It certainly doesn't guarantee they will win any game they play (and there will always be upsets-- that is why the game is played in the first place), but if their ranking is higher than their opponent, then they are more likely to win.
And maybe you don't understand statistics very well. Their reliability depends on a lot of variables, including sample sizes, which are too small in PWA for rankings to have much predictive value if any, except at the extremes. But rankings make parents feel good, which is always the most important thing.
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But I do understand statistics, and also understand that the rankings scores represent expected outcomes that are subject to variability and distribution patterns about them... and understand the data used to inform the models are often limited. The rankings aren't perfect, nor are they fully predictive, but at least they're objective. I'll take them most any day over your WAGs!
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But I do understand statistics, and also understand that the rankings scores represent expected outcomes that are subject to variability and distribution patterns about them... and understand the data used to inform the models are often limited. The rankings aren't perfect, nor are they fully predictive, but at least they're objective. I'll take them most any day over your WAGs!
QUE ES WAGS ???
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On what basis do you say that? Are you also saying the Wave 1 team doesn't deserve to be ranked as the top team in PW A?
Experiance.. Not saying they are the best or not.
Thay are a very good team. Could they beat some PW AA teams? Probably. Can they get their asses handed to them by most PW AA teams ?, probably. Rankings are computer algorithms. Few years ago, another Wave team won States. There were a California team that they had beat several times and was still ranked ahead of them. Also a few teams that they had beaten in tournaments that were also ranked higher.
If it makes you feel good, thump your chest for now.
RANKINGS DONT MEAN SHIT
When someone says rankings don't mean shit, it usually means their team sucks...
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So all this talk about how good Wave 1 team is (which I will say as well they are good and I would say arguably the best in the division) but has anyone actually looked at the roster of the team. Last year PWA team Wave 1 went to states and lost in the finals. With that being said this years team has 7 return players from last season and also picked up 5 return players from other PWA teams. That begs the question with 12 return PWA players and only 6 that didn't play PWA last season why is that team playing down in PWA again this season?
I would expect as a parent to at least attempt to play AA this season.
Just something to think about.
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But I do understand statistics, and also understand that the rankings scores represent expected outcomes that are subject to variability and distribution patterns about them... and understand the data used to inform the models are often limited. The rankings aren't perfect, nor are they fully predictive, but at least they're objective. I'll take them most any day over your WAGs!
I apologize for being too slow to catch your reference to “WAGS,†but your response is incoherent. Your original post said that rankings identify probabilities, but then you cover your rear end by saying they aren’t predictive. To the extent they reliably identify probabilities they are predictive, and vice versa. To the extent they don’t, they aren’t, but are just lists that make people feel good or bad. They might be “objective†lists of data, but that doesn’t make them predictive or probabilistic.
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On what basis do you say that? Are you also saying the Wave 1 team doesn't deserve to be ranked as the top team in PW A?
Experiance.. Not saying they are the best or not.
Thay are a very good team. Could they beat some PW AA teams? Probably. Can they get their asses handed to them by most PW AA teams ?, probably. Rankings are computer algorithms. Few years ago, another Wave team won States. There were a California team that they had beat several times and was still ranked ahead of them. Also a few teams that they had beaten in tournaments that were also ranked higher.
If it makes you feel good, thump your chest for now.
RANKINGS DONT MEAN SHIT
When someone says rankings don't mean shit, it usually means their team sucks...
Actually, my son plays on the top “ranked†team in the state in another division, which is also one of the top “ranked†teams in the country. It doesn’t mean shit. And as Trans [size=78%]pointed out, a relatively low-ranked PW team a couple of years ago won states, over a higher “ranked†team that just happened never to be able to beat them when it mattered. At this level, given how miniscule the data sets are, the rankings don’t mean shit. Ask any statistician, if you know one. But please feel good about your ranking while it lasts, because that’s the most important thing about the entire youth hockey experience. [/size]
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[font=]
Just something to think about?
Why would a team with (10) 06’s and (6) 07’s regardless of whether they are returning PeeWee A players or not, want to make the same mistake as other teams/clubs. This is the problem Clubs/coaches and parents chasing all those additional A’s and spending $$$$$$$$$$$$.
You people keep drinking the Kool-Aid and thinking that little Gretzky is the next one and we’ll just keep having fun and my sons will just keep making lifelong friends.
And as for rankings, your correct they don’t’ mean shit UNTIL you go to Nationals. Good Luck!!!!!
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Lets clarify rankings...
Do they mean shit when playing a team lower or higher than you? Of course...because thats life. Anything can happen. #1 ranked team in any sport can lose to the #20 ranked team any given sunday.
With that being said...rankings, and we are talking about MHR, are based on an algorithm that gets better as the season goes on. It calculates rankings based on who you played and the score. So, it actually is a great tool to see where your team measures up against CA and national teams.
Also, more and more tournaments are using MYR as a deciding factor of admission or not. That is more on the Tier level but its still becoming a thing.
So in summary...rankings dont matter when it comes to the actual game. Welcome to life.
Rankings do matter when it comes to everything else in life.
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Lets clarify rankings...
Do they mean shit when playing a team lower or higher than you? Of course...because thats life. Anything can happen. #1 ranked team in any sport can lose to the #20 ranked team any given sunday.
With that being said...rankings, and we are talking about MHR, are based on an algorithm that gets better as the season goes on. It calculates rankings based on who you played and the score. So, it actually is a great tool to see where your team measures up against CA and national teams.
Also, more and more tournaments are using MYR as a deciding factor of admission or not. That is more on the Tier level but its still becoming a thing.
So in summary...rankings dont matter when it comes to the actual game. Welcome to life.
Rankings do matter when it comes to everything else in life.
Obviously rankings are important for playoff seeding in any league. But you asserted that they are also predictive of results. Not with the kinds of data sets you are talking about. Especially not when it comes to national rankings at for example the PWA and PWAA levels.
Let me give you a real-world example without naming all the "top dogs" in SCAHA and CAHA that get embarrassed every year when it matters. If rankings had predictive value, then the President's Trophy winner would be the odds-on favorite to win the Stanley Cup every year. In fact, over the last 30+ years the winner of the President's Trophy has gone on to win the Stanley Cup exactly 8 times. If anything, being the top-ranked team in the NHL is highly predictive of *not* winning when it matters, even in the far more data-rich environment of the NHL.
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[font=]And they really don’t mean shit when all the data isn’t entered. Most of the teams don’t even have all the games entered.[/font]
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Lets clarify rankings...
Do they mean shit when playing a team lower or higher than you? Of course...because thats life. Anything can happen. #1 ranked team in any sport can lose to the #20 ranked team any given sunday.
With that being said...rankings, and we are talking about MHR, are based on an algorithm that gets better as the season goes on. It calculates rankings based on who you played and the score. So, it actually is a great tool to see where your team measures up against CA and national teams.
Also, more and more tournaments are using MYR as a deciding factor of admission or not. That is more on the Tier level but its still becoming a thing.
So in summary...rankings dont matter when it comes to the actual game. Welcome to life.
Rankings do matter when it comes to everything else in life.
Obviously rankings are important for playoff seeding in any league. But you asserted that they are also predictive of results. Not with the kinds of data sets you are talking about. Especially not when it comes to national rankings at for example the PWA and PWAA levels.
Let me give you a real-world example without naming all the "top dogs" in SCAHA and CAHA that get embarrassed every year when it matters. If rankings had predictive value, then the President's Trophy winner would be the odds-on favorite to win the Stanley Cup every year. In fact, over the last 30+ years the winner of the President's Trophy has gone on to win the Stanley Cup exactly 8 times. If anything, being the top-ranked team in the NHL is highly predictive of *not* winning when it matters, even in the far more data-rich environment of the NHL.
Actually it was justanotherhockeyparent that said that.
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MHR: California Top 10
LA Jr Kings (#1) AA: all games entered.
Anaheim Ice Dogs (#1) AA: all games entered.
San Diego Jr Gulls (#1) AA: 6 games not entered.
Ontario Empire AA: 5 games not entered.
Golden State Elite Eagles (#2) AA: 1 game not entered.
Anaheim Ice Dogs (#2) AA: 5 games not entered.
Anaheim Jr Ducks (#1) AA: 4 games not entered.
California Wave AA: 5 games not entered.
Santa Clara Blackhawks AA: 4 games not entered.
California Wave (#1) A: all games entered.
So yes these rankings don’t’ mean shit.
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[font=]And they really don’t mean shit when all the data isn’t entered. Most of the teams don’t even have all the games entered.[/font]
for PW A, this thread, it seems all games are entered?
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MHR: California Top 10
LA Jr Kings (#1) AA: all games entered.
Anaheim Ice Dogs (#1) AA: all games entered.
San Diego Jr Gulls (#1) AA: 6 games not entered.
Ontario Empire AA: 5 games not entered.
Golden State Elite Eagles (#2) AA: 1 game not entered.
Anaheim Ice Dogs (#2) AA: 5 games not entered.
Anaheim Jr Ducks (#1) AA: 4 games not entered.
California Wave AA: 5 games not entered.
Santa Clara Blackhawks AA: 4 games not entered.
California Wave (#1) A: all games entered.
So yes these rankings don’t’ mean shit.
So are you saying that if you look at the CA rankings above and compare them to MYR rankings there should be a big difference based on games not entered? Are there teams above that should be higher or lower based on counting all games? Because when I look at the above and compare to CAHA / SCAHA it seems pretty spot on....
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Wow, hot stuff on rankings... Should we throw in school ratings too?.. I personally see both parts of argument - it is something to look at for the lack of anything else - as it's still based on some math - but at the same time the sample is relatively small + it's just kids sport. On NHL level - President Trophy is a regular season winner which is worth something (say, in European football/soccer it's only regular season, no play-offs) and play-off is a different beast. Still, one can't say that some shitty team wins regular season - 82 games, not happening. Bets of 7 series - different ball game.
Meanwhile, during last week Kings 2 (predicted to start losing) posted another upset - now they beat Heat (who became cold all of a sudden) - which allowed them to remain in a play-off spot. They have 3 games vs 3 very good teams now in a row - so we'll see how that goes.
Goldrush 1 came out of the woods with consecutive decisive victories over GR 2 and Ducks 2 - and now they (with arguably toughest schedule of all) have a claim for a play-off spot.
I think - 2 spots are open. As Wave 1, Kings 1, Mariners, Flyers, Heat (unless they continue to fall of the cliff) will qualify. GR 2 should qualify as well as all games they have left are against much weaker opponents (Kings 2 - question mark)
So 2 spots are left - and contenders for those now are in no particular order - Gulls 1, Kings 2 (maybe), GR 1, and maybe Ducks 2. I do not count Bears as they now enter "real" schedule. And teams that already have 5 losses probably should start preparing for the next season as well.
On a Wave 1 team - they definitely belong to AA level - I heard it was parents/coaches decision not to play there (as someone said here - "not to repeat mistake").
Now - if they just wanted a banner for winning the division and/or feel they are developing playing Saints and Reigns of the world (as they also have light schedule - playing not too many games vs other top teams) - that's on them. Be it...[size=78%] [/size]
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MHR: California Top 10
LA Jr Kings (#1) AA: all games entered.
Anaheim Ice Dogs (#1) AA: all games entered.
San Diego Jr Gulls (#1) AA: 6 games not entered.
Ontario Empire AA: 5 games not entered.
Golden State Elite Eagles (#2) AA: 1 game not entered.
Anaheim Ice Dogs (#2) AA: 5 games not entered.
Anaheim Jr Ducks (#1) AA: 4 games not entered.
California Wave AA: 5 games not entered.
Santa Clara Blackhawks AA: 4 games not entered.
California Wave (#1) A: all games entered.
So yes these rankings don’t’ mean shit.
So are you saying that if you look at the CA rankings above and compare them to MYR rankings there should be a big difference based on games not entered? Are there teams above that should be higher or lower based on counting all games? Because when I look at the above and compare to CAHA / SCAHA it seems pretty spot on....
I can't answer that particular question, but the CAHA and MHR ranking systems are apples and oranges. Completely different methodologies, in addition to the fact that MHR relies on self-reporting by teams (so lots of garbage in, garbage out at the AA level). IMO the MHR rankings are virtually meaningless for California AA teams unless there are local teams that are playing really significant numbers of out-of-state games and everyone is fully reporting their results, and even then they are mainly useful for drunken amusement and parking lot shit-talk.
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So what part of the Cal rankings for AA does not pass your eye test, because the Flight 1 rankings look spot on.
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Rankings are narcissism in numerical form. If they make you happy and you feel the need to defend them, look in the mirror
If they are a harmless hobby that stirs your evening adult beverage bottoms up.
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On what basis do you say that? Are you also saying the Wave 1 team doesn't deserve to be ranked as the top team in PW A?
Experiance.. Not saying they are the best or not.
Thay are a very good team. Could they beat some PW AA teams? Probably. Can they get their asses handed to them by most PW AA teams ?, probably. Rankings are computer algorithms. Few years ago, another Wave team won States. There were a California team that they had beat several times and was still ranked ahead of them. Also a few teams that they had beaten in tournaments that were also ranked higher.
If it makes you feel good, thump your chest for now.
RANKINGS DONT MEAN SHIT
When someone says rankings don't mean shit, it usually means their team sucks...
If the rankings of your 12 year old make you feel like a well endowed porn star, who am I to judge, pewee.
But if I was ranking, I would bet that you would win the #1 ranked douche on your team.
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Rankings mean something at AAA. Undeniably. These are pure birth year teams, and they generally stay together from year to year, and it is a very accurate measurement of the quality of team. Additionally, the rankings are used for admission to exclusive tournaments and showcases. If you don't believe that, you don't know youth hockey is America.
As for A or AA, rankings below Bantam Major are silly for the most part since there are no Nationals and mixed year teams change drastically from year to year. That being said, this far into a season, the rankings are a pretty good indicator of the quality of teams. Compare league standings with rankings... they're pretty darn close. People often complain, though... because their egos are hurt when they see their team is ranked 127th! :o :o :o
P.S. I miss BRAZZERS so much.
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So all this talk about how good Wave 1 team is (which I will say as well they are good and I would say arguably the best in the division) but has anyone actually looked at the roster of the team. Last year PWA team Wave 1 went to states and lost in the finals. With that being said this years team has 7 return players from last season and also picked up 5 return players from other PWA teams. That begs the question with 12 return PWA players and only 6 that didn't play PWA last season why is that team playing down in PWA again this season?
I would expect as a parent to at least attempt to play AA this season.
Just something to think about.
A lot of people believe it is a waste of money to play AA or AAA for what is basically girls hockey. There are no nationals at the PW level so it is really an ego thing. The checking game is completely different...
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So all this talk about how good Wave 1 team is (which I will say as well they are good and I would say arguably the best in the division) but has anyone actually looked at the roster of the team. Last year PWA team Wave 1 went to states and lost in the finals. With that being said this years team has 7 return players from last season and also picked up 5 return players from other PWA teams. That begs the question with 12 return PWA players and only 6 that didn't play PWA last season why is that team playing down in PWA again this season?
I would expect as a parent to at least attempt to play AA this season.
Just something to think about.
A lot of people believe it is a waste of money to play AA or AAA for what is basically girls hockey. There are no nationals at the PW level so it is really an ego thing. The checking game is completely different...
So... then just play A hockey until Bantam Majors? Uh... speed, physicality and team play elevates drastically as you go up, and trying to just "jump in" at Bantam Majors would be a huge eye opener to say the least. No checking definitely doesn't mean no contact. Gritty, physical play is often the difference between a AA player and a AAA player. High level A teams can be good... but even the worst AAA team would crush them. Complete different level. Hockey is very expensive, but then so is any other travel sport.
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So all this talk about how good Wave 1 team is (which I will say as well they are good and I would say arguably the best in the division) but has anyone actually looked at the roster of the team. Last year PWA team Wave 1 went to states and lost in the finals. With that being said this years team has 7 return players from last season and also picked up 5 return players from other PWA teams. That begs the question with 12 return PWA players and only 6 that didn't play PWA last season why is that team playing down in PWA again this season?
I would expect as a parent to at least attempt to play AA this season.
Just something to think about.
A lot of people believe it is a waste of money to play AA or AAA for what is basically girls hockey. There are no nationals at the PW level so it is really an ego thing. The checking game is completely different...
So... then just play A hockey until Bantam Majors? Uh... speed, physicality and team play elevates drastically as you go up, and trying to just "jump in" at Bantam Majors would be a huge eye opener to say the least. No checking definitely doesn't mean no contact. Gritty, physical play is often the difference between a AA player and a AAA player. High level A teams can be good... but even the worst AAA team would crush them. Complete different level. Hockey is very expensive, but then so is any other travel sport.
I never said 14U Major, I said PW. However, if your player is ready for AA or AAA it does not matter what they played before. Coaches fill you full of crap to in order to fill teams because they make more money at AA. None and I mean none of this matters until 16U Major.
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Playing the most competitive, most demanding, most intense hockey prepares you for 16U hockey. So, playing AA or AAA does matter. It's forcing you to play faster, harder, stronger. There's a huge difference between A level hockey and AA or AAA. Good A teams are coasting through 80% of their games in SCAHA. That doesn't prepare you for 16U at all.
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And good luck getting a serious look at AAA if you are coming from A
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And good luck getting a serious look at AAA if you are coming from A
If your player belongs, they will look, if they don't belong, then it does not matter.
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And good luck getting a serious look at AAA if you are coming from A
If your player belongs, they will look, if they don't belong, then it does not matter.
Totally agree. But playing the highest level of hockey better prepares you for 16U. There are anomalies, but you'd be very, very hard pressed to find a 16U AAA roster in the entire country with a kid that never played anything above A previously. Unless the kid is a total freak, the gap is just too wide. The real discussion, though, is between playing AA versus AAA... especially in the Western United States (not just CA).
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Rankings mean something at AAA. Undeniably. These are pure birth year teams, and they generally stay together from year to year, and it is a very accurate measurement of the quality of team. Additionally, the rankings are used for admission to exclusive tournaments and showcases. If you don't believe that, you don't know youth hockey is America.
As for A or AA, rankings below Bantam Major are silly for the most part since there are no Nationals and mixed year teams change drastically from year to year. That being said, this far into a season, the rankings are a pretty good indicator of the quality of teams. Compare league standings with rankings... they're pretty darn close. People often complain, though... because their egos are hurt when they see their team is ranked 127th! :o :o :o
P.S. I miss BRAZZERS so much.
I agree that in AAA rankings are more informative, probably because the data sets are more robust (smaller group of teams playing each other more frequently and reporting data regularly instead of 1000+ teams playing each other rarely and reporting results inconsistently). The rankings are also m[size=78%]ore consequential. But more importantly, I miss Brazzer too. And Westside. [/size]
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guess some of you don’t have kids grown through bantam/midget. Here’s the reality: half the kids playing 12AAA in SoCal will be gone by 15AAA. Half the kids playing 16AAA in SoCal were aa/a/b pre-Bantam.
Examples: 2 of the 2001 Ducks Ncaa D1 commits played pwa. Another didn’t play at all during his bantam years, then played a year of adhshl. Big/strong/fast/skilled eventually rises to the top. Genetics plays at lease 70% into what ultimately makes a player, and has a lot more to do with getting to 16aaa than where a kid played squirt and pw.
No teams “stay together†from pw to midget, anywhere. puberty and checking changes everything. AAA rankings at the lower age ranges are a fun parlor game, nothing more. Most important is that your kid is having fun; if that’s on a minor pw birth year aaaa elite select “superteam†that’s great, but if it’s on a middle of the pack pwa team, that’s great too. where they play pre-bantam matters little by the end. cheers.
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So what's your point? The truly elite 12AAA kids leave by 15AAA, we all know that, which is why less talented kids are needed for 16AAA. Talent goes with the jet stream... west to east. That being said, both Kings/Ducks 16AAA teams are still loaded with kids who played AAA/AA by PW Major. You'd be hard pressed to find more than a few exceptions to that. By 18AAA, it's a ghost town, and you have your local kids who played at every level, with every club filling out rosters. Regardless, if a kid doesn't have that inner drive and desire to battle and push themselves hard every day without mommy and daddy riding their ass... then they'll never get past a certain level. And, as you suggest, by Bantam, it becomes very clear who has that desire and who doesn't. Sure, have fun while doing it... but, like everything in life, you better darn well be prepared if you want to succeed. It matters. It all matters. Life is a marathon... so you better have good shoes.
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This is SoCal, baby! And the only way some PW Superstar is being replaced by a PWB Duster at 16AAA is because the PW Superstar left two years prior to go crush it at a HoneyBaked! You're talking about height/weight. Kids good at PW are good at PW because they're ALREADY good athletes (agility, speed, balance, hand-eye coordination, endurance, grit, etc.)... and with no checking and most kids pre-puberty, they get rewarded with height/weight not mattering as much. Yes, that changes at puberty... but small Superstars at PW can still hang and be small Superstars at 16AAA. Example? Go watch a Kings/Ducks 16AAA game. The best kid on the ice is also the smallest kid on the ice... he's a stud at 16AAA, and he was a stud at the Brick when he was 10 (hint: he's on the Ducks).
We're essentially saying the same thing... with growth and checking, things change. Sure. I just think that the kids that put in the work when young and constantly push themselves and challenge themselves against the best competition will have more likelihood to achieve success in the long run. That applies not just to hockey, but to everything in life. Yeah, there are exceptions... and this forum loves to talk about exceptions... but by PW Major you have a pretty good indication of who can play and who can't. Up to them then to continue or take up water polo.
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First year Bantams get rudely awakened by second year Bantams. You can see it in the eyes of the kids that will not continue playing...
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First year Bantams get rudely awakened by second year Bantams. You can see it in the eyes of the kids that will not continue playing...
I agree that following PW superstars is a parlor game. There’s a big shakeout after the Bantam minor year, which has to do with size and strength, but more to do with fear, motivation, ability to think the game, and ultimately girls and gasoline.
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The thing is... you can't deny playing at a high level while growing up better prepares you for that... both mentally and physically. If you're used to adversity and hard work, you won't be as shocked when it becomes VERY hard. We're ultimately saying the same thing, it has to be in the kid's heart (and genes) to succeed... but you don't see LEGIT PW Superstars quitting after Bantam Minor year... you see them moving east for more consistently competitive hockey and better training/schooling environments.
Interestingly, in our heavily political environment of only two AAA teams in PW/Bantam for the ENTIRE SoCal population of 24M people (and growing)... these early Superstar kids moving is what allows the late bloomers to get an honest look and shot at playing elite hockey.
Hence our odd youth hockey ecosystem. So maybe CAHA are the geniuses... and we're the idiots?!? :o
RIP: Westside/Brazzers... you'll always be in our hearts.
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The thing is... you can't deny playing at a high level while growing up better prepares you for that... both mentally and physically. If you're used to adversity and hard work, you won't be as shocked when it becomes VERY hard. We're ultimately saying the same thing, it has to be in the kid's heart (and genes) to succeed... but you don't see LEGIT PW Superstars quitting after Bantam Minor year... you see them moving east for more consistently competitive hockey and better training/schooling environments.
Interestingly, in our heavily political environment of only two AAA teams in PW/Bantam for the ENTIRE SoCal population of 24M people (and growing)... these early Superstar kids moving is what allows the late bloomers to get an honest look and shot at playing elite hockey.
Hence our odd youth hockey ecosystem. So maybe CAHA are the geniuses... and we're the idiots?!? :o
RIP: Westside/Brazzers... you'll always be in our hearts.
There is no preparation for getting hit so hard by a kid who has 50lbs - 100lbs on you that it feels like your all your teeth just fell out. You can either take getting hit or you can not...
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Sure there is. Play AAA and never face a kid older than you or with more hitting experience than you. :D
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Do we have a new dark horse in the PWA division? Kings2 took out the Flyers yesterday 7 to 4.
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Yep, and somebody said earlier that Kings 2 will drop like a rock once they see "real" teams - they in fact beat Heat and Flyers back-to-back and riding high...
Wave 1 who they face next started "trembling", I guess...
Ducks 2 got one player back (not sure where he has been) according to score sheet report who was Squirt A top scorer last season - so they really should not lose anymore games - maybe Flyers one?
Gonna be really close between 6-8 play-off spots.
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Yep, and somebody said earlier that Kings 2 will drop like a rock once they see "real" teams - they in fact beat Heat and Flyers back-to-back and riding high...
Wave 1 who they face next started "trembling", I guess...
Ducks 2 got one player back (not sure where he has been) according to score sheet report who was Squirt A top scorer last season - so they really should not lose anymore games - maybe Flyers one?
Gonna be really close between 6-8 play-off spots.
Ducks 2 player I heard that he was in Canada. Last season in squirt A he pretty much carried the team. He is a good player and has decent size played on the 08 Brick team. however i see two losses in their future one will be to Flyers (if they show up as it seems they are hit and miss) and the other to Kings 1. Their schedule is pretty light. they will finish the season with record of 8-6-1 unless they steal one from flyers or kings 17 points ( just missing the playoffs).
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Alfirst, I will give you a little credit regarding Kings2. Yea, they've gotten better! Until they can upset Kings1 or Wave1? They're just another team that will make the playoffs.
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Alfirst, I will give you a little credit regarding Kings2. Yea, they've gotten better! Until they can upset Kings1 or Wave1? They're just another team that will make the playoffs.
After seeing both Wave 1 and Kings 1 play. I would say Wave 1 is the team to beat and Kings 1 is very beatable (didnt see anything special from them as far as puck movement which i did see from Wave 1).
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So what happen this weekend with the Kings2 vs Wave1?
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SCAHA scoreboard states Wave1 beat Kings2, 10 to 2. So what, Kings1 made up for it and smoked that OC PWBB team 18 to 1.
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What happen to the new dark horse? :-X and if it's not the Kings2 now, then who is it? ???
And what's going on this weekend? 8) besides drinking.
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Insiders tell me: Ice Dogs-1 AA beat Wave-1 A= 4 to 0.
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Interesting! Maybe the rankings do mean shit after all... It seems Wave PW A is living up to the expectations set by the rankings.
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Interesting! Maybe the rankings do mean shit after all... It seems Wave PW A is living up to the expectations set by the rankings.
I don't know what Wave 1 "A" is ranked. But i don't think you have to be very bright to expect a top AA team to beat a top A team.
I would have thought it would be by more.
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Well, Kings1 holds on to beat Kings2... "What a game" Here comes GR1 trying to stay up with the BIG BOYS, Kings1 & Wave1.
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So after this week top 8 looks to be settled - in different order by the end of the season but current top 8 in standings should remain play-off teams.
The only team that could challenge that is Ducks 2 but even if they win 3 remaining games they will have 20 points and they lose tie-breakers to most (if not all) teams with 20 points (even if those lose all remaining).
Mariners, Flyers should easily pass 20 point mark.
GR 2 - if they won vs Ducks 1 (and they should) will have 20 points and they also should prevail in case of a tie. Plus they have last game vs Kings 2...
All settled, I guess - and looking forward towards the play-off brackets...
My original estimation - Kings 2 and GR1 undervalued, Gulls 1 and 2 - overvalued. Ducks 2 are falling victim of a tough schedule while GR 1 overcame that hurdle.
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Who won the GR2 vs Ducks1 game???
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So can you guys tell me where the real teams are at( wave, flyers , ducks, etc)
We are at the Caha finals and i don't see any of those teams here!
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Well.... All the top teams That should showed up for SCAHA & CAHA final ,"S" the bed. It looked like our Kings1 team was going to take both finals? The Heat decided to show up! "Go Heat Go" Beat the Blue Devils tomorrow!
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Well.... All the top teams That should showed up for SCAHA & CAHA final ,"S" the bed. It looked like our Kings1 team was going to take both finals? The Heat decided to show up! "Go Heat Go" Beat the Blue Devils tomorrow!
Bummer that did not happen. Congrats Tri Valley!!!