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Hockey Discussions => Midget Hockey => Topic started by: Denis Lemieux #1 on May 09, 2020, 06:11:59 AM
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In one of the worst worded letters I have read in a long time, CAHA announced the postponement of tryouts until they meet again on June 16. On a side note, if the man that wrote that letter is in fact the head of CAHA, God help us and please save our children.
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I just hope they don’t cancel the season
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This is from an article sent to me by a Canadian friend:
"Indoor sports: While this may be uniquely Canadian, a super spreading event occurred during a curling event in Canada. A curling event with 72 attendees became another hotspot for transmission. Curling brings contestants and teammates in close contact in a cool indoor environment, with heavy breathing for an extended period. This tournament resulted in 24 of the 72 people becoming infected. (ref (https://nationalpost.com/news/how-an-edmonton-curling-tournament-became-a-hotspot-for-the-covid-19-outbreak-in-canada))"
Ice hockey involves more hard breathing, small locker rooms, and relatively small benches during games and many occasions for practice, stick times, and games. If one curling tournament could create a 1 in 3 contagion rate, what might it be for hockey players with spread to families and school mates?
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That case is mentioned here. Worth the read.
https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them?fbclid=IwAR0mWwwUH9MUhdN-mfR11oXnHvX6EIoW83_u7aNDJilkeA6N-trWYlcYe9w (https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them?fbclid=IwAR0mWwwUH9MUhdN-mfR11oXnHvX6EIoW83_u7aNDJilkeA6N-trWYlcYe9w)
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Moderator: Thank you for finding the article and posting all of it. It is vital information that needs to be processed as we make decisions for our children and families and hopefully it will be read by those who will make decisions for CAHA and SCAHA.
From a personal perspective, it may be the most important decision I will ever make as a parent.
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The only thing I can say for sure is that I really like social distancing. I never was much of a people person and I think society as a whole should keep this up well past the term of the virus.
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So, how long can these rinks hang on with no income? The Ducks/Kings owned rinks are probably fine, but what about the single privately owned rinks? Should we expect more closing if no hockey continues through the summer?
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That’s what I’m worried about. I know of 2 officially and more likely to come the longer this lasts
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That’s what I’m worried about. I know of 2 officially and more likely to come the longer this lasts
Aside from Valencia, who else has officially gone belly up?
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Desert Ice Castle. Who’s next?
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I am not even sure that every rink is closed like they should have been...
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I am not even sure that every rink is closed like they should have been...
We all know that there are some "special" kids/coaches sneaking on to the ice at rinks that are not doing maintenance.
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Yeah, I think some taking it to a bigger scale.
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LA county is considering extending the stay at home order until August. That might derail the season. I’m not judging, just reporting.
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/la-county-likely-extend-stay-192653066.html
It does clarify that there might be restrictions lifted, but it feels like a gut punch to those who were optimistic.
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Rumor has it they have been pushed back again
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Aug 14th is the earliest AAA tryout date "tentative" at this point. So... yep.
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I wonder of CAHA is waiting for USA Hockey congress in June - why even bother with those August "tentative" dates.
On the other hand I heard kids are skating all around. "Pressure to re-open" is mounting, I guess.
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How many kids will leave the state this year if the leadership doesn’t figure out something that sounds more concrete? Waiting until August works for the neighborhood teams, but all of the top teams are going to lose players to situations and states that seem to be in a more certain environment.
Underground ice works for a while, but breaking the rules leads inevitably to a search for a more secure situation.
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While not disagreeing with your sentiment or prediction, I wonder what precisely is a "more certain" environment? Whose predictions on the path of the virus does one listen to?
"Certainty" may be fools gold. Yea, maybe some other state opens up sooner and more completely than CA or LA County but what happens to that AAA or AA season when that same state is hit badly by this virus and has to reverse public policy direction? Is your kid's health worth the risk? For what? The odds are long that they will play in the NHL or D1? Counter that with the fact that hockey is a breeding ground for viruses and disease. My daughter wrote me recently about a Mumps outbreak among the MN Wild.
What seems certain to me is that youth hockey, like most youth sports nowadays, is about money. USAH, CAHA, SCAHA, clubs, rinks, and coaches all want and need to re-establish their cash flows or income. Will they put player and parent safety before their economic self-interest? I am rather pleasantly surprised that the Ducks announced that their tier tryouts have been postponed until mid-August. That is about as late as possible without putting the whole season at risk.
If a parent is confident about their kid's play at certain level, waiting seems prudent. If our son's lack of ability or the virus costs him a season, so be it. Hopefully, there is life after hockey.
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If you think that a proactive plan communicated clearly to the community who devote so much time and effort to the experience (not the future nhl aspect) is fools gold, then don’t ask for anything more than you’re currently getting. I can predict that it will be appreciated by the people in charge.
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If I were designing a proactive plan, it would have to include thresholds defining what level of new cases and deaths in the general population of California and with the ice hockey community for a variety of actions including (1) the tryouts would be postponed again (2) when the season might be called upon to postpone or halt play and (3) when to reestablish play if a halt threshold was reached.
A proactive plan would also include testing on a widespread basis, perhaps several times a week for every player depending on cost and accuracy of the tests, and for contact tracing for hockey players or family members who came down with the disease by organizing and training volunteers at the club level as a condition of play for a team or the club. A real plan would be complex and implementing it even more so.
A real plan would definitely consist of more than "lets get on the ice as if nothing really happened".
As for asking for more than we are currently getting, that assumes that "full steam ahead" is getting something positive. I appreciate that the Ducks Organization and presumably the governing bodies are moving with caution. Their economic interest would be full steam ahead so they are showing restraint and good judgment. How often do we witness organizations acting counter to their financial interest and for a perceived public good?
It is fundamentally wrong to assume that Action A is wrong because you want Action B.
What you, I or any parent or family has invested in ice hockey is a sunk cost. It is nonsensical to make this type of decision based only on sunk cost. Presumably we make the financial commitment based on an expected return at each discrete season. To continue to do something stupid because of past investments or sunk cost is why a lot of companies, for example, fail.
I hope you and your hockey player/s enjoy your out-of-state experience. It may be memorable.
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Thats a great justification. If it’s a sunk season, I hope you enjoy it for I am sure it will be memorable.
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Thanks Landshark. It was an enjoyable exploration.
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Thoughts?
CAHA Permitted Tryout Dates Notice
May 16, 2020 7:55 PM
May 16, 2020
To: All CAHA Member Associations
Re: CAHA Permitted Tryout Dates Update
All,
This letter shall serve as notice that pursuant to the CAHA Board of Directors Special Meeting held on May 16, 2020, the Directors voted in the following 2020-2021 CAHA tryout calendar updates;
TIER 1
Provided that Shelter in Place restrictions applicable to ice rinks/youth hockey are lifted statewide, Tier 1 Tryouts shall be permitted Not Earlier Than 8/14/20.
TIER 2
Provided that Shelter in Place restrictions applicable to ice rinks/youth hockey are lifted statewide, Tier 2 Tryouts shall be permitted Not Earlier Than 8/21/20.
A/BB/B/HS
Provided that Shelter in Place restrictions applicable to ice rinks/youth hockey are lifted statewide, A/BB/B/HS Tryouts shall be permitted Not Earlier Than 8/28/20.
*On June 20th after USA Hockey’s National Congress CAHA will make a decision to permit team formation of Tier 1 National Bound teams prior to a physical tryout, and such decision will be issued immediately.
NOTE
CAHA would like to remind all players/parents that USA Hockey insurance coverages do not extend to injuries/claims arising from participation in non-USA Hockey sanctioned events (private lessons, clinics, etc).
Sincerely,
Thomas Hancock
President
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Arizona is increasing from 2 to 3 AAA teams starting this season. I'm guessing with their tryouts scheduled for July, many kids are going to get anxious for a team and head out to Phoenix for a look.
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Arizona is increasing from 2 to 3 AAA teams starting this season. I'm guessing with their tryouts scheduled for July, many kids are going to get anxious for a team and head out to Phoenix for a look.
Sounds like a good plan:
The number of new COVID-19 cases in Arizona continues to rise, with daily increases setting four records in the past week, according to the Arizona Department of Health Services data. More than one-quarter of the total number of COVID-19 cases in Arizona were recorded in the past week.
The Arizona Department of Health Services (https://www.azdhs.gov/index.php) (ADHS) and Maricopa County Department of Public Health (MCDPH) confirmed Thursday, June 11, there have been 31,264 confirmed cases of COVID-19 (https://azbigmedia.com/business/health-care/coronavirus-in-arizona-now-widespread-could-peak-in-late-april/) in Arizona. That total represents an increase of 1,412 new cases since yesterday. Maricopa County — with 16,018 cases — has the greatest number of confirmed cases of COVID-19 in Arizona.
Arizona is among 14 states seeing a surge in COVID-19 cases. Arizona has hit its highest seven-day average of new COVID-19 cases since the beginning of the pandemic. Nation-wide protests, relaxed stay-at-home limitations and reopenings could play a role in increasing numbers, according to The Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/06/08/14-states-puerto-rico-hit-their-highest-seven-day-average-new-covid-19-infections-since-june/).
As of Thursday, June 11, there have been 1,127 COVID-19 (https://azbigmedia.com/business/covid-19-crisis-everything-you-need-to-know/) deaths in Arizona, an increase of 32 from the previous day.
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Hockey Soph, stay home if you’re fearful. This used to be America and that used to be your free choice. You have a better chance of dying in a car accident on the way to the rink. Meanwhile the rest of the kids are back on the ice playing hockey already. So let’s get back to hockey, and not politics, on this forum.
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Hockey Soph, stay home if you’re fearful. This used to be America and that used to be your free choice. You have a better chance of dying in a car accident on the way to the rink. Meanwhile the rest of the kids are back on the ice playing hockey already. So let’s get back to hockey, and not politics, on this forum.
A 5 second web search revealed this data for 2016. Maybe not accurate but probably not off by a factor of 3. What is political about considering basic data? How is awareness of data showing fear? How is free choice threatened by considering the pros and cons of a particular course of action. Your post shows more "politics" than that post.
Car accident deaths:
For 2016 specifically, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) data shows 37,461 people were killed in 34,436 motor vehicle crashes, an average of 102 per day.
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Arizona is increasing from 2 to 3 AAA teams starting this season. I'm guessing with their tryouts scheduled for July, many kids are going to get anxious for a team and head out to Phoenix for a look.
In CAHA's announcement about tryouts, they did allow the possibility for Tier 1 teams to choose their teams ahead of tryouts. Maybe this factored into their decision.
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Ten second web search. Data is data.
Percentage of Covid-19 fatalities in the U.S. by age andweekly, March 14-May 23, 2020Source: CDC
As treatments have improved over the course of the pandemic, fewer young people are dying. In late March, Americans over age 75 made up about half of all weekly deaths (see chart nearby) while those under 45 made up between four and five percent. Now those over 75 make up about two-thirds of deaths while those younger than 45 make up less than 2%.
If your kid is under 45, you're good.
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Thanks Landshark. That is promising data. Unless you are a parent over 75 which is probably rare.
Still not sure of the wisdom of playing AAA hockey in AZ even in the best of times unless one wants their teenager to live with a local family and/or have a lot of money to burn. In another era, let my daughters live out of state for competitive swimming. It contributed to their swimming success but, in retrospect, maybe not the correct choice in terms of overall life development. Too much emphasis on sport and not enough on academic and life development. But hockey is a better, more interesting, and more social sport. Having one's face in the water 5 hours a day is a waste.
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Arizona is increasing from 2 to 3 AAA teams starting this season. I'm guessing with their tryouts scheduled for July, many kids are going to get anxious for a team and head out to Phoenix for a look.
In CAHA's announcement about tryouts, they did allow the possibility for Tier 1 teams to choose their teams ahead of tryouts. Maybe this factored into their decision.
For sure. I know a couple of New England area T1 coaches who told me they have heard from Cal kids looking for spots. If they're reaching out to that end of the country, you can bet they're contacting the three AZ orgs which are less than an hour away via air.
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I am not advocating AZ. It's a swill of sweat and hot ugliness. I just think we should stay up to date with our concerns. Nothing more.
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Sophist, so sick of your political agenda. Guess what? Thousands and thousands of people stood right next to each other in protests, some with masks some without. The first protests in Minnesota were May 26, over 19 days ago. We were required to be locked down for months and when people protested the lockdows, they were condemned by the media saying how dare they risk others lives. Now, 19 days after thousands (many thousands more than any lockdown protests) stood breaking every social distance recommendation, screaming and coughing, NO SPIKE IN CASES. Stop your FEARMONGERING.
https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases/coronavirus/situation.html
https://www.startribune.com/testing-of-protesters-could-reshape-covid-19-thinking-in-minnesota/571173082/
Same in New York City, etc… https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data.page
The virus is spreading from New York westward and southward so our numbers are climbing and they will continue to climb a bit more (IMO) lockdown or not. If you are old or vulnerable, stay inside and take every precaution. The so called experts have admitted wrongdoing:
https://dnyuz.com/2020/06/02/prof-lockdown-neil-ferguson-admits-sweden-used-same-science-as-uk-but-has-suppressed-coronavirus-without-tough-restrictions/
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/22/dr-anthony-fauci-says-staying-closed-for-too-long-could-cause-irreparable-damage.html
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/fauci-says-us-given-inaccurate-information-about-virus-right-beginning
Sorry, back to hockey!
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Landshark I prefer to listen to Dr. Fauci.
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Please do. Take in all you can. It's not a competition to see how informed you can be.
The CDC and the NIH deserve to be heard and respected.
I haven't heard Fauci's comments on how age affects the progression of the illness. Illuminate us.
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Article in Nature magazine:
But other studies, including some from South Korea, Italy and Iceland, where testing was more widespread, have observed lower infection rates among children. Some studies from China also support the suggestion that children are less susceptible to infection. One, published in Science on 29 April2, analysed data from Hunan, where the contacts of people with known infections had been traced and tested for the virus. The authors found that for every infected child under the age of 15, there were close to 3 people infected between the ages of 20 and 64.
A study3 of a cluster of cases in the French Alps describes one nine-year-old who attended three schools and a skiing class while showing symptoms of COVID-19, but did not infect a single person. “It would be almost unheard of for an adult to be exposed to that many people and not infect anyone else,†says Munro.
Kirsty Short, a virologist at the University of Queensland in Brisbane, Australia, led an as-yet unpublished meta-analysis of several household studies, including some from countries that had not closed schools at the time, such as Singapore. She found that children are rarely the first person to bring the infection into a home; they had the first identified case in only roughly 8% of households. By comparison, children had the first identified case during outbreaks of H5N1 avian influenza in some 50% of households, the study reports.
Few studies exist of transmission from schools to the broader community, but an Australian report from an ongoing investigation suggests that it’s limited, and much lower than with other respiratory viruses, such as influenza. Among more than 850 people who had been in contact with 9 students and 9 staff members confirmed to have COVID-19 in primary and high schools in the state of New South Wales, only two cases of COVID-19 were recorded among those contacts, both in children.
Not a slam dunk, but lots of evidence that kids rarely suffer much from the virus and don't seem to spread it in the same way adults do. There is a limit to this effect when the kid gets into the mid to high teens (15+) they start to look more like adults, although the danger to them specifically is extremely low. Also keep in mind that cases of Covid-19 are clearly incredibly underreported. It was in the country before it became a household name or was clearly understood as a risk by the medical community, and tests continue to be unreliable or hard to get. It's still very hard to get a test for antibodies.
But one could look at a study in Chelsea, MA where 200 random people walking the streets of Chelsea were tested, and it was found that 30% had antibodies. That study was in April! https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/04/17/business/nearly-third-200-blood-samples-taken-chelsea-show-exposure-coronavirus/
A statistical analysis from the Imperial College of London concluded that the likely level of infection in MA is 10x the reported number, again because many infected people were never tested, and this will undoubtably continue for some time.
I'm not saying this isn't a lethal virus for the sick and elderly. It's an undeniable fact at this point, given the 117k+ deaths attributed to the disease. But we can not continue to force the world to live in a bubble and prevent young people who are not facing any substantial risk from Covid-19 from resuming their lives to some degree, because people who 70+ years of age have a 4-15% chance of dying from it. If you have Heart disease you have a 10% chance of dying from Covid-19. If you have Diabetes it's 7.3%. You also are substantial risk of dying from the flu with these same diseases.
We have techniques to slow the spread of the disease and protect ourselves, but the vast majority of us already have a healthy immune system that can fight it off. If 13% of the population of massachussets already has had Covid-19 and survived, and 16% of New York residents have had it, then mortality rates are vastly overstated.
I won't pretend to have the perfect prescription for how fast things should open up or what measures should be instituted, beyond those that are currently underway, but I can tell you that much of the country and the world at large is moving in that direction.
Lots of people have been watching Sweden closely as they chose not to quarantine at any point, and still have faced roughly the same mortality rates.
While other countries were slamming on the brakes, Sweden kept its borders open, allowed restaurants and bars to keep serving, left preschools and grade schools in session and placed no limits on public transport or outings in local parks. Hairdressers, yoga studios, gyms and even some cinemas have remained open.
Gatherings of more than 50 people are banned. Museums have closed and sporting events have been canceled. At the end of March, the authorities banned visits to nursing homes.
That’s roughly it. There are almost no fines, and police officers can only ask people to oblige. Pedestrians wearing masks are generally stared at as if they have just landed from Mars.
As of May 1, the estimated % of the population recovered was 26%. If there is a lesson from Sweden, it's that what is really needed is hyperfocus on the people most at risk, which is the elderly and those battling life threatening disease. These are the people who need to be protected, and around whom additional precautions are required. The eldercare system and healthcare system is the battleground for Covid-19, not the hockey rinks and ball fields of the world.
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Landshark I prefer to listen to Dr. Fauci.
that's funny!!!
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This is the best thread ever! Hilarious!
Next season will be a bust. Send ur kid to another state only to play 2 months before another shutdown. Get over it. Next season is a wash and will get shortened then canceled again.
Also... Mayan calendar predicts end of the world is in June 21, 2020! GOOD LUCK!
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CAHA was supposed to have a meeting and come to a decision about tryouts, Tier 1 team formation,etc. Perhaps if we are very good they will let us know their plans before August.
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Do you mean this?
Pursuant to prior advisement, CAHA during its Annual Board Meeting held on 6/20/20, reviewed the COVID-19 landscape and its continued impact upon youth sports and voted to keep the CAHA tryout calendar as previously posted. The Board also voted to NOT allow team rostering/formation at any level until after tryouts. CAHA will continue to monitor the COVID-19 situation and not later than two weeks prior to tryouts, the CAHA Board will convene a Special Meeting to assess if tryouts remain a viable option at that time.
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Geez. No news is...no news, I suppose.
Anyone want to carpool to Phoenix for tryouts in a couple weeks? :)
I found a great shitbox in Tempe we can use as a flophouse for the season. BYOAM (bring your own air mattress)
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Do you mean this?
Pursuant to prior advisement, CAHA during its Annual Board Meeting held on 6/20/20, reviewed the COVID-19 landscape and its continued impact upon youth sports and voted to keep the CAHA tryout calendar as previously posted. The Board also voted to NOT allow team rostering/formation at any level until after tryouts. CAHA will continue to monitor the COVID-19 situation and not later than two weeks prior to tryouts, the CAHA Board will convene a Special Meeting to assess if tryouts remain a viable option at that time.
Wow, I am very cautious about Covid-19 and skeptical about the rationality of a season this year but this seems overly cautious to apply to everyone especially Tier 1 families. Despite anxieties, we are looking forward to the pre-tryout clinics and tryouts. If they had early August tryouts and team formation or late July and things go badly in terms of the pandemic, they could still postpone or cancel things. Starting so late also creates issues for potential high school players who may need to commit to a team earlier.
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Does anyone know how the LA Jr Kings U18AAA team is shaping up? Are they gonna be competitive? or what's the deal with them?
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Do you mean this?
Pursuant to prior advisement, CAHA during its Annual Board Meeting held on 6/20/20, reviewed the COVID-19 landscape and its continued impact upon youth sports and voted to keep the CAHA tryout calendar as previously posted. The Board also voted to NOT allow team rostering/formation at any level until after tryouts. CAHA will continue to monitor the COVID-19 situation and not later than two weeks prior to tryouts, the CAHA Board will convene a Special Meeting to assess if tryouts remain a viable option at that time.
Yes this is what I was waiting for, such as it is. I'm not sure it's a good idea to come across so uncertain. Tbird tryouts are this weekend and Arizona is in 2 weeks.