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Hockey Discussions => Bantam Hockey => Topic started by: alfirst on July 15, 2020, 02:21:03 PM

Title: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: alfirst on July 15, 2020, 02:21:03 PM
It is pretty quiet here, meanwhile tryouts are postponed again - now till October.
Rinks are open so far - but who knows how ling that lasts.


Would suck big time having no games this year ... 
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: justanotherhockeydad on July 15, 2020, 03:57:54 PM
Not exactly a surprise here. Hospitals are maxed out and people still argue over masks and social distancing... Blaming others and ignoring data and facts won't help. This will take a collective effort from EVERYONE. If we want to have a season at all, we better do our part and encourage others to do theirs.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: KickSave on July 15, 2020, 04:29:39 PM
Well said, hockey dad.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: JackBender on July 15, 2020, 10:29:30 PM
From what I've seen, the rinks have been very responsible with all the safety precautions in place.  It's a controlled environment, and they've been good. 


A concern CAHA should really have is kids leaving. We can be flippant, but AAA and AA kids looking to take hockey to the next level (juniors, college, etc.) will leave. Very soon. Most of the rest of the country and Canada have had tryouts or formed teams without tryouts.  No one is going to wait around.


Let's not do a political debate... but the state has lost a minimum of 5 sheets already.  That's a big, big problem.  We should all be concerned... and smart or the sport will be severely stunted in the state for years to come.   
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: M@sshole on July 16, 2020, 06:59:20 AM
Agree with Jack.  If Covid exposure is the concern, better to pick your teams now and get going on skills practices with the same 20 kids than having the players bouncing from clinic to clinic all over So Cal and being exposed to 60+ kids each week...

Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Stick Tap on July 16, 2020, 08:12:20 AM
CAHA has no clue what they are doing. Meanwhile, teams all over the country are formed or will be formed in the next couple of weeks. The constant pushing of tryout dates leaves so many families up in the air. Parents rightfully are starting to think that there won't be a season at all and are looking for options out of the state.

At the AAA level, the 03 and 04 birth year were already decimated from kids leaving. This spring with so much uncertainty the 05s left in droves. Several 06s bounced as well. With this new change in date and no guidance from CAHA on what the season looks like, watch lots more kids across all those birth years find a better option very soon. Why wouldn't they?

CAHA needs to state very clearly what their plan is so parents can decide what's best for their kid in the fall.

When can practices begin?

When will games begin?

Can teams travel out of state this season? If so, when? (Lots of teams have tournaments booked in September and October. Do they have to cancel them?)

Are there certain thresholds that need to be met by the state for any of this to happen, if so, what are they?

Are there any other restrictions they plan on implementing for the upcoming season?

Can LOI's be signed before tryouts to allow teams to plan their seasons?

These are just some of the questions CAHA should have posted with with announcement of pushing tryouts.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: JackBender on July 16, 2020, 09:26:19 AM
Agree with Jack.  If Covid exposure is the concern, better to pick your teams now and get going on skills practices with the same 20 kids than having the players bouncing from clinic to clinic all over So Cal and being exposed to 60+ kids each week...


This is a GREAT point. Want to localize things and "keep kids at home"... then allow teams to roster.  AAA and AA coaches already know the kids and the landscape, any kind of formal tryout is a charade anyway.  Allowing rostering now would be the first step in stabilizing the situation.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Landshark on July 16, 2020, 01:31:58 PM
We are looking at flushing the season and just finding a good school system in a safe area to get the kids learning again. Hockey is important to us, but I'm actually more worried that my youngest will have another semester of school that doesn't really measure up to standard.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: alfirst on July 16, 2020, 01:37:06 PM
"Hospitals are maxed out" - is it the fact? Have not heard or read anything like that in OC.
One party is saying school should reopen as kids are not subject to it (at least not to extent to worry) and masks are still an open debate;
the other party is saying masks and closed schools.
And it's an election year. Would make a bet that covid reaction and debate would be WAY different if it was you 'normal" year.


Anyway - tryouts might be "pre-decided" in certain or majority of the cases - but this year picture is blurry - as some AA coaches changed clubs, some high ranked kids [size=78%]are changing clubs, and some teams (AA) are almost looking to start form ground 0. [/size]
So - yes - limiting traveling around would be great and settling on "what is this season" would be even greater - but I guess CAHA/SCAHA have no idea what tomorrow brings and what data to believe - and the governor does belong to the party that favors "hush-hush" (no politics - just stating the facts).


Whatever they decide - they will be criticized. Have a season - will be parents who in "hospitals are full" mode; not have a season - will be parents who will say "they are killing hockey in CA"
Sure they are in a spot where you can't please everyone. And I do not know whether it's 50/50 split or what between the opinions.     


I would settle on a some kind of a season - and those who are still in fear might just elect not to play (this is simple) and those who are willing to play - will play.
And do all the possible measures, of course, - dressing not in locker room, masks for parents (just in case), limited travel etc.etc.
But I am not in CAHA...     
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Deuce on July 16, 2020, 01:47:11 PM
Saw this on twitter the other day, worth a read...



THREAD
I need to rethink things.

People have been shaming me & others for months now for speaking up against the #COVID19 shutdowns.
Hospitals! Hospitals are overwhelmed!
They may be right. I have to share some quotes about our hospitals.
Read to the end please

These are actual quotes from pieces I've just read. I don't know why I've been ignoring this. Let me say that I'm serious about my respect for frontline workers. I'm confident THEY are NOT the ones calling for us to lose our jobs so they can do theirs. Politicians did that.


"Tallia says his hospital is 'managing, but just barely,' at keeping up with the increased number of sick patients in the last three weeks. The hospital’s urgent-care centers have also been inundated, and its outpatient clinics have no appointments available.”

"Dr. Bernard Camins, associate professor of infectious diseases at the University of Alabama at Birmingham, says that UAB Hospital cancelled elective surgeries scheduled for Thursday and Friday of last week to make more beds available"

“We had to treat patients in places where we normally wouldn’t, like in recovery rooms,” says Camins. “The emergency room was very crowded, both with sick patients who needed to be admitted”

"In CA… several hospitals have set up large 'surge tents' outside their emergency departments to accommodate and treat … patients. Even then, the LA Times reported this week, emergency departments had standing-room only, and some patients had to be treated in hallways.”

"In Fenton, Missouri, SSM Health St. Clare Hospital has opened its emergency overflow wing, as well as all outpatient centers and surgical holding centers, to make more beds available to patients who need them. Nurses are being “pulled from all floors to care for them,”

“it’s making their pre-existing conditions worse,” she says. “More and more patients are needing mechanical ventilation due to respiratory failure”

“From Laguna Beach to Long Beach, emergency rooms were struggling to cope with the overwhelming cases… and had gone into 'diversion mode,' during which ambulances are sent to other hospitals.”

“Hospitals across the state are sending away ambulances, flying in nurses from out of state and not letting children visit their loved ones for fear they’ll spread… Others are canceling surgeries and erecting tents in their parking lots to triage the hordes of… patients.”

“There’s a little bit of a feeling of being in the trenches. We’re really battling these infections to try to get them under control,” McKinnell said. “We’re still not sure if this is going to continue…”

"At Parkland Memorial Hospital in Dallas, waiting rooms turned into exam areas as a medical tent was built in order to deal with the surge of patients. A Houston doctor said local hospital beds were at capacity”

“Dr. Anthony Marinelli says they've seen a major spike in… cases. It's so overwhelmed the community hospital that they've gone on bypass at times -- that means they tell ambulances to bypass this ER and find another.”

“Dr. Atallah, the chief of emergency medicine at Grady, says the hospital called on a mobile emergency department based nearly 250 miles away to help tackle the increasing patient demand. "At 500-plus patients a day you physically just need the space to put a patient in.”

Our workers are incredible and I know they've been trained to deal with this.  But maybe the lockdown folks are correct. Maybe we opened up too quickly. Maybe we should stay in shutdown mode.

I mean nothing like this has ever happened to our hospitals before?!

Except these are all quotes from the 2018 flu season which may have killed as many as 100K Americans. Healthcare workers are amazing. I know they can do their jobs without the rest of us having to forfeit our lives.

End the lockdowns.
Get the kids back to school.
We got this.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: JackBender on July 16, 2020, 02:40:34 PM
Let's not get lost in the weeds, folks... this thread is about tryouts being pushed... not hospitals, schools, or elections. 


Let's focus on how to get hockey going, in a smart way, so that more rinks aren't lost and kids don't continue to leave the state in droves. Skates have been going on for weeks, if not months. Coaches know the kids, and if they don't, they can talk to the clubs or other parents. It's not that big of a market. Coaches can have a few more skates and then fill their rosters with electronic LOIs.  That would move things forward. 


If people are scared... they don't have to play. That's their decision and totally understandable.   
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: 2 Cups in LA on July 16, 2020, 02:57:10 PM
Bender well said...  Direct & to the point!
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Knuckle Puck on July 16, 2020, 03:11:57 PM
go where? michigan and mass rinks are closed, and while chicago rinks are open, they dont know if there is going to be a season. many ne preps have the advantage of their own rinks, but its late to get your kid a spot. canada is the place to go if you're canadian or married to one, and yes, i've heard of several socal kids heading there for the school year.

there isn't going to be a season in cali as long as the pandemic continues to rage. so wash your hands, stay away from groups as much as possible and stop bitching about wearing a damn mask.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: justanotherhockeydad on July 16, 2020, 04:38:23 PM
"Hospitals are maxed out" - is it the fact? Have not heard or read anything like that in OC. - Come to my ER, pick a day, any day and I'll show you 'maxed out' and you can judge for yourself how true that is.

One party is saying school should reopen as kids are not subject to it (at least not to extent to worry) and masks are still an open debate; - If schools are to be re-opened, masks have to be worn and social distancing of some form must be in place, if not, you can expect schools to be closed, again.

And it's an election year. Would make a bet that covid reaction and debate would be WAY different if it was you 'normal" year. - The ENTIRE GLOBE is adopting these safety measures and I highly doubt anyone outside the US give a crap about our election and the president. Covid doesn't care about politics.

So - yes - limiting traveling around would be great and settling on "what is this season" would be even greater - but I guess CAHA/SCAHA have no idea what tomorrow brings and what data to believe - and the governor does belong to the party that favors "hush-hush" (no politics - just stating the facts).- Yes I would also like to see limited travel or to places reachable by car.

Whatever they decide - they will be criticized.  - This.   

I would settle on a some kind of a season - and those who are still in fear might just elect not to play (this is simple) and those who are willing to play - will play. And do all the possible measures, of course, - dressing not in locker room, masks for parents (just in case), limited travel etc.etc. - Well said.

Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: JackBender on July 16, 2020, 04:56:39 PM
go where? michigan and mass rinks are closed, and while chicago rinks are open, they dont know if there is going to be a season. many ne preps have the advantage of their own rinks, but its late to get your kid a spot. canada is the place to go if you're canadian or married to one, and yes, i've heard of several socal kids heading there for the school year.

there isn't going to be a season in cali as long as the pandemic continues to rage. so wash your hands, stay away from groups as much as possible and stop bitching about wearing a damn mask.



Of the 50 states and Canada... you named two state where you think they're closed. So, to answer your question, people will go to Canada or the 48 other states. However, of the two remaining states, the rinks are open in the same capacity as the SoCal rinks. And in Mass, most prep schools own their own rinks, which make them private.


The point is let's not be alarmists and act irrational with blanket statements conflating several things at once. AAA/AA are in a different situation than A and below. These kids and families have ambition and goals and they aren't going to just wait around. The adults can make smart decisions for themselves. Put restrictions in place. Everyone act responsibly. And let's carry on.


There are clinics right now with an on-ice max of around 24 or more. Teams are no more than 20 (mostly less).  So merely by forming teams the ice rinks would be safer, no? 
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: alfirst on July 16, 2020, 05:04:14 PM
Justanotherhockeydad - thank you for remarks, really appreciate that.


The only thing I would say - covid IS global but in Europe sports are being played and schools are to be opened, and for the most part all other business/operations are continued  - with some precautions. Some are even allowing limited spectators for pro-sports.
So one can't deny that allowing kids to go to school or play sports is not a part of political agenda here in the US.
And how many (or% wise) kids you see in those ER?


Let's just agree on a presented opportunity for the kids to play hockey without relocating (and changing life of their parents) - as it looks like it's not life/death decision at this point. For the sake of those who do not want to risk it  - why others can't?
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: justanotherhockeydad on July 16, 2020, 06:07:49 PM

The only thing I would say - covid IS global but in Europe sports are being played and schools are to be opened, and for the most part all other business/operations are continued  - with some precautions. Some are even allowing limited spectators for pro-sports. So one can't deny that allowing kids to go to school or play sports is not a part of political agenda here in the US.
- Well, the countries showing success in controlling the spread seem to seriously follow all safety measures... They do the social distancing and they wear masks without bitching abut their freedom being violated. People and their government leaders of other countries for the most part seem to be on the same page, unlike the US. I'm sure we could have limited sport, school, biz u name it if we do a better job at keeping ourselves and other safe.

And how many (or% wise) kids you see in those ER?
- Very few that I've seen. I've seen more covid positive infant/toddlers than teens. We have 86 covid patients in the hospital today as compared to 43 covid patients same time last month. Folks in their 60's being hit the hardest, followed by 70's, 50's, 30's, 40's, 80's, 20's, 90's and teens being the least infected (data from internal email sent to hospital staff).

Let's just agree on a presented opportunity for the kids to play hockey without relocating (and changing life of their parents) - as it looks like it's not life/death decision at this point.
- From a pure death rate perspective, maybe it isn't life or death. But the virus does much more than just kill you. It jacks up your lungs, along with the misery of the flu. But this is not 'just the flu.' 2 entire floors right now are full of covid patients. That does not happen with the flu. Not even close. We have more covid patients than we have ICU beds so ER end up holding and system is then severely backed up. That does not happen with the flu. But if none of them die then I guess it doesn't matter because the absolute death rate is still 'low'... All I'm saying is that hospitalization rate is staggering.

Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Strawman on July 16, 2020, 06:21:57 PM
Justanotherhockeydad - thank you for remarks, really appreciate that.


The only thing I would say - covid IS global but in Europe sports are being played and schools are to be opened, and for the most part all other business/operations are continued  - with some precautions. Some are even allowing limited spectators for pro-sports.
So one can't deny that allowing kids to go to school or play sports is not a part of political agenda here in the US.
And how many (or% wise) kids you see in those ER?


Let's just agree on a presented opportunity for the kids to play hockey without relocating (and changing life of their parents) - as it looks like it's not life/death decision at this point. For the sake of those who do not want to risk it  - why others can't?


Two words: American Exceptionalism
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Strawman on July 16, 2020, 06:29:18 PM

The only thing I would say - covid IS global but in Europe sports are being played and schools are to be opened, and for the most part all other business/operations are continued  - with some precautions. Some are even allowing limited spectators for pro-sports. So one can't deny that allowing kids to go to school or play sports is not a part of political agenda here in the US.
- Well, the countries showing success in controlling the spread seem to seriously follow all safety measures... They do the social distancing and they wear masks without bitching abut their freedom being violated. People and their government leaders of other countries for the most part seem to be on the same page, unlike the US. I'm sure we could have limited sport, school, biz u name it if we do a better job at keeping ourselves and other safe.

And how many (or% wise) kids you see in those ER?
- Very few that I've seen. I've seen more covid positive infant/toddlers than teens. We have 86 covid patients in the hospital today as compared to 43 covid patients same time last month. Folks in their 60's being hit the hardest, followed by 70's, 50's, 30's, 40's, 80's, 20's, 90's and teens being the least infected (data from internal email sent to hospital staff).

Let's just agree on a presented opportunity for the kids to play hockey without relocating (and changing life of their parents) - as it looks like it's not life/death decision at this point.
- From a pure death rate perspective, maybe it isn't life or death. But the virus does much more than just kill you. It jacks up your lungs, along with the misery of the flu. But this is not 'just the flu.' 2 entire floors right now are full of covid patients. That does not happen with the flu. Not even close. We have more covid patients than we have ICU beds so ER end up holding and system is then severely backed up. That does not happen with the flu. But if none of them die then I guess it doesn't matter because the absolute death rate is still 'low'... All I'm saying is that hospitalization rate is staggering.



Not to descend into rabbit holes, but California's hospital bed occupancy for Covid has been running about 10% or less, we have more open beds than a month ago in LA, and more than at this time last summer.  There are very few places in Europe and none in Scandanavia where mask-wearing etc. is common let alone required.  Not a single person under age 20 has died of Covid in California, and kids that age are at far higher mortality risk from seasonal flu. Which isn't to belittle either illness.  Will be interesting to see how we dig ourselves out of this, but in the meantime a lot more athletes just decided to leave the state if they can.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: JackBender on July 16, 2020, 10:44:48 PM
One other thing... um... is CAHA really serious about having AAA and AA tryouts on the same date? That can't be their real plan, right?


I mean... that's asking for a major clusterfuck.


Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: lcadad on July 16, 2020, 11:11:34 PM
The problem with this change in course, is that SCAHA voters took it upon themselves to step outside of their area of expertise and meddle in matters that are entirely outside of their charter.  The fact that some rinks are closed and there is uncertainty around their reopening is not SCAHA's problem, but they've used this as an excuse to further delay the organization of teams for the upcoming season, when that is not their job. 

I don't think that it is likely that municipally owned rinks will open anytime soon, or open at all this year, considering the priorities of local city governments.  Did this even cross their minds when they decided to scuttle the already late-to-the-game team tryout schedule in the name of "fairness"?  What certainty will exist in October, that doesn't exist now?  And while we are at it, when was SCAHA ever concerned with leveling the playing field beyond the protectionism of PDR?  Sounds like bullshit rationalization to me.

As is the case every season, most veteran coaches have already identified at least 90% of their roster.  Sure there's a little bit of suspense as to whether a few kids might upgrade or downgrade a letter, or switch clubs, but these clubs would all benefit from signing rosters, which then allows free agents to find a landing spot they didn't expect, or move on to other clubs, and so on down the line.   

The August dates were never great, given the proximity to what for many kids will now be the start of "virtual school" but to take away any chance for team boot camps and practices in August, and the traditional pre-season practices, scrimmages and tournaments, is about as tone deaf a response to what most people are looking for as I can recall, and that's saying something. 

With so much uncertainty around travel outside the state, the least they could have done is provided a platform for teams to figure out what the new normal will look like this season, when realistically, there's not much else for people to do other than hunker down in their homes.  It as if the SCAHA board are more interested in finding ways to scuttle SoCal hockey this season than they are in supporting the clubs and rinks as they figure out how to make things work.     
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: 09 Dad on July 17, 2020, 12:04:08 AM
One other thing... um... is CAHA really serious about having AAA and AA tryouts on the same date? That can't be their real plan, right?


I mean... that's asking for a major clusterfuck.


CAHA has still not weighed-in, right?  So, AA and AAA could still technically retain tryouts in August, or early-ish Sept. 


But, we also need to ask ourselves "what's the point" of getting through tryouts as fast as possible?  If games aren't going to be allowed by the Governor, CAHA, SCAHA, or maybe even USA Hockey, than why are we, as consumers, rushing to sign a LOI and thereby obligate ourselves to pay $5-9k to clubs that can't guarantee a single game will be played this season.


So we can practice?  (Allen Iverson voice: Practice??) 
If you want to practice, just go to clinics or sticktimes, and pay by the hour AFTER you get your hour of training.
No upfront $5-9k season fee.
No charge if rinks close.
No charge if your teammate/coach/contact comes down with Covid and you're quarantined for 2 weeks
No charge if you get a common cold and everyone forbids you from entering the rink because you need to occasionally cough.


Now, when CA can guarantee that a season is likely to occur, or that I'll get something like my "money's worth" for this dicey season, then wake me up for tryouts & club payments.  Until then, I'll just plod along at $50-60 per hour.
 


Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Hockey sophist on July 17, 2020, 08:28:48 AM
This is a scary story from a Florida Fox news outlet.   It has implications for schools and ice hockey everywhere in the US.   A scary detail in this article and others is that even with mild symptoms, this disease may have lifelong impacts.   We are planning and hoping for our son to play hockey and attend a brick & mortar school this academic year but the risks and challenges go way beyond when SCAHA and CAHA hold their tryouts.  Agree with much of what has been written here in the last 2 days but these a truly extraordinary times and this pandemic is changing our lives and way of life.

 At least 31 percent of children tested in Florida are positive for COVID-19: report  Posted 11:32 am, July 15, 2020, by FOX News Channel (https://fox6now.com/author/fox-news-wire-service/)         
            Young students with backpacks walking down hallway of elementary school
    ORLANDO, Fla. — Nearly one-third of every person under 18 years old t (https://www.foxnews.com/health/over-31-percent-florida-children-tested-florida-positive-covid-19-report)ested for the coronavirus in Florida are positive for the virus, according to a report on Friday.
Palm Beach County’s health department director, Dr. Alina Alonso, warned county commissioners Tuesday about the potential long-term health consequences for children who catch COVID-19. She said the virus could cause lifelong damage even for children with mild illnesses.
“They are seeing there is damage to the lungs in these asymptomatic children. … We don’t know how that is going to manifest a year from now or two years from now,” Alonso said, according to the Sun-Sentinel. “Is that child going to have chronic pulmonary problems or not?”
Florida had tested 54,022 Florida residents under the age of 18, according to the state’s COVID-19 pediatric report on July 10. Of those tests, 16,797, or just over 31 percent, have come back positive. Meanwhile, the positivity rate for Florida’s entire population stands at roughly 11 percent.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: alfirst on July 17, 2020, 10:11:59 AM
Meanwhile - and I am not sure where USA hockey stands here - games are being played now. Chicago CCM tournament has just started - that adds to inequality across the states - youth sport wise...
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: JackBender on July 17, 2020, 10:13:41 AM
I suppose I'm talking more about AAA/AA than A/B.  A/B teams are more localized, so they can pull things together quicker once the greenlight is given.   


However, AAA/AA cannot.  AAA especially are national programs, so they have to plan accordingly, including getting uniforms, booking tournaments, figuring out travel, etc.  Practice is also very important for these teams.  When families invest the time and money in a sport at this level, they expect the team to be in a good spot when they travel.  Sticktimes don't do that.  Practice does.     


Despite California's problems, USA Hockey is not stopping.  Chi-Town Shuffle is right now, with over 400 teams.  Tournaments are happening.  The season will start with or without California's participation.  Travel hockey isn't public school.  It's not a right.  If people don't want to do it, they don't have to.   


And if CAHA doesn't want kids moving around and going from sticktime to sticktime from Panorama City to Carlsbad... they'd roster teams and remove the first layer of risk. 
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Knuckle Puck on July 17, 2020, 11:36:34 AM
jack, my point is that there are few practical and good out of state options left at this time for those who have not already made a decision. several of the top hockey states (mass, mich, ill) are just as iffy on whether there will be a season as cali. its likely too late to get admitted to a ne prep. canada not an option for non-citizens. ive heard some looking at arizona and texas, others investigating minnesota public hs (but minn transfer rule is tough-“entire family” has to relocate). as an earlier poster mentioned, many kids have already left; good luck to those who didn’t make the move.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: alfirst on July 17, 2020, 11:41:32 AM
JackBender - that's exactly my point - let's play some hockey  - for those who are willing to do it.
Those stick times/lessons/wanna-be-practices/camps are pretty full - people/kids are longing to have some sort of a season - and I think most of them understand
that some restrictions will be imposed and that would not be your normal season; some are reluctant to do much travel (especially by air)
but still to stall everything for the sake of those who would play only if... what - vaccinated? - does not seem right at all.
I can't relocate just because of hockey or just out of the blue - it's just crazy - there should be some sort of resolution locally...


And on the other point - about coaches knowing 90% of the team - when core stays - yes, when coach stays  - yes. But there's some movement in both coaching and
players camps - so some teams might not be formed even 50%+ - again, if there is no season all that does not matter - but if there is it's better be some resolution around the corner.


Worst thing is uncertainty - let's create return to play plan - CAHA/SCAHA - common!!!
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Ice-o-Matic on July 17, 2020, 01:56:55 PM
Hockey Sophist,


Here's another story from Fox out of Orlando:  [size=78%]https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/fox-35-investigates-florida-department-of-health-says-some-labs-have-not-reported-negative-covid-19-results (https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/fox-35-investigates-florida-department-of-health-says-some-labs-have-not-reported-negative-covid-19-results)[/size]


Multiple labs in Florida were caught reporting positive results but not negative results.  This skews the percentages and makes it seem that a higher percentage of people are testing positive.


The bottom line in the U.S. is that because *everything* has become so politicized, people are playing with numbers.  We don't actually *know* what's going on.  I mean, I read quite a bit, and I don't know -- none of us laypersons really do.  I understand that everybody *thinks* they know, but do they really??


Personally, I think those who want to play hockey should play hockey.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Hockey sophist on July 17, 2020, 02:48:50 PM
Ice-o-Matic, agree on both accounts.   Testing in the US has marginal utility because the tests are flawed and especially with false positives.  Testing in other countries may be better.  Still, the numbers were striking.

Someone else commented that professional soccer is back in Europe so why can't we have education and hockey.   Earlier in the week, I saw a number for daily new cases in Germany of about 350 something for a population of 80 million people.   Florida with only about 20 million people was running a high of 15,000 to just under 10,000 new cases a day.   Comparing the US or, specifically Florida, to Germany makes no sense without considering relatively effectiveness of public health policies.  But agree, we cannot know with precision what is really happening but the data we do have gives us a ballpark basis to decide what to do.
My quote of the Fox News data was interesting because some here have argued that kids are unlikely to get Covid-19 or it will amount to nothing.   That assumption could be wrong on both counts making the decision about ice hockey more difficult.  Listen to one's head or one's heart and play?   Our son will probably play knowing full well the risk to him, his family, and school mates.  Hockey is a powerful addiction.   


Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: alfirst on July 17, 2020, 03:15:53 PM
What I meant was - those countries were having it as bad or worse - Italy, Spain, Germany (to a lesser extent) - they all back to almost normal now - and why there's some spike in cases here and there in Europe - so far they are operating, including sports.
Guess, they do not have election year coming up.


There are plenty of controversial data all around, and numbers can be played either way - but if in CA there are no severe cases/death among kids - why shut them down? Adults handling them - take precaution - and let the kids continue their lives - they will have enough crisis once they grow up - we can save them the child years.
 
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: ohnonotagain on July 17, 2020, 06:36:26 PM
Easiest thing to do is to declare all practices and games as protests and get instant approval and support from the governor and health boards.  Might get suspicious with no looting or assaults though.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Strawman on July 17, 2020, 09:07:28 PM
Easiest thing to do is to declare all practices and games as protests and get instant approval and support from the governor and health boards.  Might get suspicious with no looting or assaults though.


Replace pucks with bricks and we'll be good.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: fistocuffs on July 18, 2020, 02:47:09 PM
Easiest thing to do is to declare all practices and games as protests and get instant approval and support from the governor and health boards.  Might get suspicious with no looting or assaults though.


One of the best comments in a while
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: fistocuffs on July 19, 2020, 09:05:39 AM
JackBender - that's exactly my point - let's play some hockey  - for those who are willing to do it.
Those stick times/lessons/wanna-be-practices/camps are pretty full - people/kids are longing to have some sort of a season - and I think most of them understand
that some restrictions will be imposed and that would not be your normal season; some are reluctant to do much travel (especially by air)
but still to stall everything for the sake of those who would play only if... what - vaccinated? - does not seem right at all.
I can't relocate just because of hockey or just out of the blue - it's just crazy - there should be some sort of resolution locally...


And on the other point - about coaches knowing 90% of the team - when core stays - yes, when coach stays  - yes. But there's some movement in both coaching and
players camps - so some teams might not be formed even 50%+ - again, if there is no season all that does not matter - but if there is it's better be some resolution around the corner.



I would simply say,

Worst thing is uncertainty - let's create return to play plan - CAHA/SCAHA - common!!!

[/size]
Not a bad idea?.   The real issue is litigation.   In a State where contact based indoor youth sports has not been approved, people are pushing to still have games - its prohibition time - but its not for the sake of booze - its for the sake of sports - and your kids will become bullets in the game of Russian roulette.   Not all sports are created equal as well.   I would imagine something like golf, or tennis, will be allowed before soccer, which will most likely be allowed before football, basketball, or indoor hockey.  Mass. rates indoor hockey as the highest risk youth sport in terms of COVID along with others - the LAST sport to bring back - not the first.


There is little doubt kids will be fine with COVID - they bounce unlike adults.  Unsuspecting parents may not be so well off.  Parents that have been told not to worry and that things are really over blown - its just a flu - lets play hockey!!   As an interesting side node, there are cases where parents and teachers have died due to infection.  They were walking around just fine 30 days ago and now they are dead and never coming back - ever.  If you talk to the relatives and friends of these families who had gone through that - you may find a vastly different perspective on priorities.  They may view our group as part of the problem - and in no way contributing to beating this thing.


On paper, its a game of red light / green light.   All our state had to do was play 'red light' for about 30 to 45 days - the virus cannot survive outside of people.  And the only way to keep it going is through people.  As you can see - we played the game horribly.  A simple game - and we could not even get that right.  Here we are over 100 days later, still contemplating a complete lockdown. 


I digress though.   Back to the civil and litigious aspect of this.  In the end, you may be right - little harm - no foul.   But in the off chance that a group of people test positive for COVID, and it results in a couple of deaths as a direct result of your "team activity" - that is not currently condoned by the state - you, the team, the coach, the rink, and all other parents involved - will be in the direct line of fire legally, I hope you have very very deep pockets at that point.  Even if you feel that you did everything by the book


Some people think that their insurance will cover them (umbrellas for all).  But you will find out that insurance companies will NOT cover any scenario like this.  They will not touch this with a 20 foot pole


This should tell you something about the real risk that people are ignoring.


Also,  if the fatality rate (seems to be 1% to 3%) does not bother you. You are the type of person that will happily fly an airline where 1 out of every 100 flights crashes and burns.   Or where an intersection of traffic kills 1 out of 100 people that cross it - you will be right there - crossing it multiple times a day.


I feel my kid will be just fine,  hockey is off the table until heath officials give us the green light - in the mean time - we do family things.  Read books.  Barb-q in the back yard.  Play cards.  Playing hockey games is looooooow on the list of things needed to get done at the moment.





Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: fistocuffs on July 19, 2020, 09:30:04 AM
The problem with this change in course, is that SCAHA voters took it upon themselves to step outside of their area of expertise and meddle in matters that are entirely outside of their charter.  The fact that some rinks are closed and there is uncertainty around their reopening is not SCAHA's problem, but they've used this as an excuse to further delay the organization of teams for the upcoming season, when that is not their job. 

I don't think that it is likely that municipally owned rinks will open anytime soon, or open at all this year, considering the priorities of local city governments.  Did this even cross their minds when they decided to scuttle the already late-to-the-game team tryout schedule in the name of "fairness"?  What certainty will exist in October, that doesn't exist now?  And while we are at it, when was SCAHA ever concerned with leveling the playing field beyond the protectionism of PDR?  Sounds like bullshit rationalization to me.

As is the case every season, most veteran coaches have already identified at least 90% of their roster.  Sure there's a little bit of suspense as to whether a few kids might upgrade or downgrade a letter, or switch clubs, but these clubs would all benefit from signing rosters, which then allows free agents to find a landing spot they didn't expect, or move on to other clubs, and so on down the line.   

The August dates were never great, given the proximity to what for many kids will now be the start of "virtual school" but to take away any chance for team boot camps and practices in August, and the traditional pre-season practices, scrimmages and tournaments, is about as tone deaf a response to what most people are looking for as I can recall, and that's saying something. 

With so much uncertainty around travel outside the state, the least they could have done is provided a platform for teams to figure out what the new normal will look like this season, when realistically, there's not much else for people to do other than hunker down in their homes.  It as if the SCAHA board are more interested in finding ways to scuttle SoCal hockey this season than they are in supporting the clubs and rinks as they figure out how to make things work.     


I like that idea, lets activity figure out how to subvert CA heath policy.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Strawman on July 19, 2020, 11:29:44 AM
The problem with this change in course, is that SCAHA voters took it upon themselves to step outside of their area of expertise and meddle in matters that are entirely outside of their charter.  The fact that some rinks are closed and there is uncertainty around their reopening is not SCAHA's problem, but they've used this as an excuse to further delay the organization of teams for the upcoming season, when that is not their job. 

I don't think that it is likely that municipally owned rinks will open anytime soon, or open at all this year, considering the priorities of local city governments.  Did this even cross their minds when they decided to scuttle the already late-to-the-game team tryout schedule in the name of "fairness"?  What certainty will exist in October, that doesn't exist now?  And while we are at it, when was SCAHA ever concerned with leveling the playing field beyond the protectionism of PDR?  Sounds like bullshit rationalization to me.

As is the case every season, most veteran coaches have already identified at least 90% of their roster.  Sure there's a little bit of suspense as to whether a few kids might upgrade or downgrade a letter, or switch clubs, but these clubs would all benefit from signing rosters, which then allows free agents to find a landing spot they didn't expect, or move on to other clubs, and so on down the line.   

The August dates were never great, given the proximity to what for many kids will now be the start of "virtual school" but to take away any chance for team boot camps and practices in August, and the traditional pre-season practices, scrimmages and tournaments, is about as tone deaf a response to what most people are looking for as I can recall, and that's saying something. 

With so much uncertainty around travel outside the state, the least they could have done is provided a platform for teams to figure out what the new normal will look like this season, when realistically, there's not much else for people to do other than hunker down in their homes.  It as if the SCAHA board are more interested in finding ways to scuttle SoCal hockey this season than they are in supporting the clubs and rinks as they figure out how to make things work.     


I like that idea, lets activity figure out how to subvert CA heath policy.


Except the fatality rate in this instance is about an order of magnitude lower than your number, and for people under 20 it's statistically 0, which is something we should be celebrating rather than mourning.  If we are really concerned about the kids, then all sports and social activity (including education) should be banned permanently given that their risks from seasonal influenza (and even lightning strikes) is so much greater.  If what we are really reacting to is fear for ourselves then let's be honest about that, and let those who feel their families are at too great a risk decide accordingly.  To use your example, we don't ban airplanes because some people are afraid to fly. 
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: alfirst on July 19, 2020, 11:45:18 AM
Strawman - you took my words... Exactly - % of death - divide by population total, not by infected number (which is still unkown) and statistic is a beast which can be played multiple ways.
Then look at other countries which were already through that - and see that they are kinda back to new normal.



And if teachers are afraid - why then grocery stores (with minimum or close to that wage) have employees there - all can be ordered online as education, huh? Why tons of other places you can go to - casinos in Vegas, e.g.?


Insurance wise - I am not an expert - but even franchise rinks are open now; Chicago CCM tournament has been held; pro-sport are about to return. Not heard that people were sued because of that - and that NY governor should then be crucified for what he did with nursing  facilities and closing the city/state a tad too late - resulting in 30K+ death only officially.


It is not legalities to me so much as politics - so after that damn November - things will definitely be changed...


Anyway - looks like you are on a sidelines which is fine. But I know for the fact there are a number of people who would play and who would want a season - just look at the rinks...     
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Landshark on July 19, 2020, 01:16:20 PM
Our society has shifted.  Everyone competes for who can be the least shameful rather than the most brave.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: JackBender on July 19, 2020, 01:19:14 PM
Exactly.  And if people are scared, they can stay home... which is totally understandable. 


From what I've seen, though, the rinks are doing a very good job of mitigating risks.  Wear masks.  Come dressed.  Keep the parents limited.  Life doesn't have to stop... we just have to be smart.  This is all temporary.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: 2 Cups in LA on July 19, 2020, 06:06:38 PM
“Oh no not again“ comment is reckless & political.   Kids who play sports & their family member health is most important.  I prefer to listen to doctors & scientist, not parents who think they got it figured out?  My kid plays multiple sports, not just tier hockey.  “It’s killing him that his regular year round routine has come to a halt”.  But he understands what’s going and there is more to life other than sports...
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: KickSave on July 19, 2020, 06:24:16 PM
The “scared people can stay home” line is getting really old. The more that people find their loopholes and act like it’s nothing, the longer we all have to pay the price.

Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: JackBender on July 19, 2020, 10:05:22 PM
On this board, I don't think it's meant to be disparaging... and no one is minimizing the risks.  A lot of people, though, I think feel that there can be a middle ground between one extreme and the other... as long as everyone is smart and considerate.  You know, like the Canadians.


Regardless, looks like CAHA is trying. 
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: notTHATdad on July 19, 2020, 11:02:42 PM
Situations differ. Yes, by all means cancel house league, squirt, even peewee...


Delay B, BB, A.. as long as you like...


But telling a 16AAA who is trying to make hockey a part of his life going forward to sit at home, screw up his dreams, and do nothing also is extreme. I know kids attending USHL tryouts this summer. In states, where they are still debating whether to close bars.


The rinks around here are doing a good job of keeping kids in small, consistent groups, both to minimize spread risk, and allow contact tracing if required. Tournaments are happening in other states. Tier 1 Elite will happen.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: KickSave on July 19, 2020, 11:38:42 PM
Gross
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Hockeymomx on July 20, 2020, 05:14:36 AM

CAHA 2020-2021 Season COVID Updates (Tryouts / Tier 1 Team Rostering / Tier 2 Season Format)
Jul 19, 2020  6:33 PM
This letter shall serve to provide all members an update regarding changes impacting the upcoming 2020-2021 season that were enacted by the CAHA Board during the July 18 Special Meeting;

2020-2021 Tryout Dates

As a result of recent updates with respect to governmental restrictions on youth sports activities, CAHA is pushing the CAHA permitted tryout calendar for on-ice tryouts as follows;
- Tier 1 not earlier than 10/1
- Tier 2 not earlier than 10/5
- A / BB / B / HS not earlier than 10/8

2020-2021 Tier 1 Team Formation / Rostering

For Tier 1 only (due to the fact that Tier 1 teams play a majority of the season’s games outside of CAHA League play), starting Friday, July 24, 2020, CAHA approved Tier 1 teams may roster players without a physical on-ice tryout subject to the following stipulations;
- Player/Coach rostering is subject to ALL normal USA Hockey rules/requirements/restrictions.
- Clubs/Teams may NOT issue player contracts or otherwise bind player financially to a rostering team until after such time that physical on-ice tryouts are permitted to be held.
- Clubs/Teams may not CUT a player once rostered.
- Players may choose to DROP for any reason without penalty up until actual on-ice tryouts are permitted to be held, at which time any rostered Tier 1 player must choose to enter into their Club/Team’s player contract or elect to drop.
- Players may NOT participate with any other Club/Team once they have been rostered, however should they wish to DROP from one Tier 1 team to join a different Tier 1 team they may do so up until such time that actual on-ice tryouts and player contracts can be issued, by simply providing notice to their team manager of their request to DROP.

2020-2021 Tier 2 Season Format

Due to the number of Tier 2 teams and the continued postponement by the State with respect to youth sports competition, coupled with the already noticed Tier 2 tryout dates, CAHA will not be scheduling the usual CAHA Tier 2 Weekends, but rather Tier 2 games this season will be scheduled by their respective Leagues (NORCAL/SCAHA) at such time the State permits youth sports competition. CAHA Tier 2 State Championships will differ this year only, from the normal (4) teamision format, to a six (6) teamision format (2-NORCAL/4-SCAHA) with the teams selected by their respective League to advance.

Sincerely,

Thomas Hancock
CAHA President
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Knuckle Puck on July 20, 2020, 09:36:56 AM
all cif fall sports postponed until december or january.

https://www.latimes.com/sports/highschool/story/2020-07-20/cif-delays-california-high-school-sports-season-until-december-or-january (https://www.latimes.com/sports/highschool/story/2020-07-20/cif-delays-california-high-school-sports-season-until-december-or-january)
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: HockeyGuy-99 on July 20, 2020, 09:39:45 AM
Out of curiosity, why would anyone sign with a team on Friday?  Pressure? Maybe the idea your kid won't make it if you don't sign that day? Are too many kids skating at different rinks right now and certain clubs want all the money in house so they came up with this?  Or is it fear from CAHA that too many people have been talking about making independent teams?  I'm curious to the last minute change on this.   


I don't think we can be naive enough to say that everyone wants to protect the players and families by keeping them under one roof and with the same groups.  That I can't buy for a second, otherwise all age groups and levels would be doing the same. 


   
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: notTHATdad on July 20, 2020, 01:07:59 PM

Some thoughts...


- Forces a kid to pick a team to practice with. Stops team-shopping. Provides stability.
- Allows teams to have 'kids camps' with a set attendee list maybe?
- Allows AAA teams that are planning Tier 1 Elite participation to form rosters (T1EHL tournaments start October)


There is no money function here because according to the rules you CANNOT charge until after tryouts occur.

Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Strawman on July 20, 2020, 03:08:33 PM

Some thoughts...


- Forces a kid to pick a team to practice with. Stops team-shopping. Provides stability.
- Allows teams to have 'kids camps' with a set attendee list maybe?
- Allows AAA teams that are planning Tier 1 Elite participation to form rosters (T1EHL tournaments start October)


There is no money function here because according to the rules you CANNOT charge until after tryouts occur.


Ironic that CAHA would be encouraging AAA kids to travel out of state to play while apparently curtailing in-state travel for games.  Rising to dizzying heights of illogic.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: ohnonotagain on July 20, 2020, 03:53:56 PM

Ironic that CAHA would be encouraging AAA kids to travel out of state to play while apparently curtailing in-state travel for games.  Rising to dizzying heights of illogic.


Really interested to see how this truly plays out.  Forget USA Hockey, right now many (most?) states have a 14-day quarantine period for travelers from certain states, which includes people returning to their home state.  Given CA's recent spike, travel to many other states isn't a pragmatic option for hockey.  Not to mention many states still have restrictions on size of gatherings.  And who knows what the future holds given the political will to destabilize the US economy.


https://www.kayak.com/travel-restrictions/united-states
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: alfirst on July 20, 2020, 04:23:58 PM
2 cups in LA,


I would agree if scientists and doctors were on the same page - but seems like their opinions are also set and determined based on what side politically they take.


At least it is not that simple to see clear through all the noise.
And again, Europe is open and moving forward...


And line on " if scared sit tight " might be old - but still true.
Isn't it the land of the free?

Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: KickSave on July 20, 2020, 05:02:48 PM
Oh yay the “freedom” excuse. My bingo card for the day is now full.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: alfirst on July 20, 2020, 07:16:57 PM
Never thought of freedom as an excuse - but go figure...


If some are free to flood the  streets in protests I think
I am free to play hockey.


I guess, thank you CAHA for at least some move forward...
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: notTHATdad on July 20, 2020, 07:50:04 PM

Some thoughts...


- Forces a kid to pick a team to practice with. Stops team-shopping. Provides stability.
- Allows teams to have 'kids camps' with a set attendee list maybe?
- Allows AAA teams that are planning Tier 1 Elite participation to form rosters (T1EHL tournaments start October)


There is no money function here because according to the rules you CANNOT charge until after tryouts occur.


Ironic that CAHA would be encouraging AAA kids to travel out of state to play while apparently curtailing in-state travel for games.  Rising to dizzying heights of illogic.


That's an odd way of looking at it. CAHA has no impact on T1EHL. All they can do is control what they control, and react to state conditions. The fact that some teams happen to play in another national league that plays out of state is not their problem, is it?


I get that they might be conservative, but I don't see how they are 'encouraging' kids to travel out of state.



Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Landshark on July 20, 2020, 08:32:24 PM
You're missing glib condescension - oh wait no. You've got plenty of that.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Strawman on July 20, 2020, 09:57:00 PM

Some thoughts...


- Forces a kid to pick a team to practice with. Stops team-shopping. Provides stability.
- Allows teams to have 'kids camps' with a set attendee list maybe?
- Allows AAA teams that are planning Tier 1 Elite participation to form rosters (T1EHL tournaments start October)


There is no money function here because according to the rules you CANNOT charge until after tryouts occur.


Ironic that CAHA would be encouraging AAA kids to travel out of state to play while apparently curtailing in-state travel for games.  Rising to dizzying heights of illogic.


That's an odd way of looking at it. CAHA has no impact on T1EHL. All they can do is control what they control, and react to state conditions. The fact that some teams happen to play in another national league that plays out of state is not their problem, is it?


I get that they might be conservative, but I don't see how they are 'encouraging' kids to travel out of state.


I think I figured it out: AAA players must be less susceptible to infection than AA and A players.  Science strikes again!
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: 2 Cups in LA on July 21, 2020, 08:36:13 AM
Most of these comments are too political and support the POS in the White House.  Get back to the reality what’s more important than hockey is everyone health and not spreading COVID to people that have weak immune systems.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: fistocuffs on July 21, 2020, 10:20:36 AM
I agree.  Being a leader is all about setting examples and protecting the week.  almost 4M cases in the us, about 143k deaths.  or about 3.5% mort.  Since very few kids are dying from this, and very few 20 something's, that means a 5%+ for us older people take the hit to counter the almost 0% mort for the youngsters.  As I have said all along, you have to look beyond yourselves - kids will be fine, thats not the concern.  Its the people that unknowingly carry to virus  for about 7-10 days before anyone knows they have COVID - kids show few symptoms - taking temps misses the mark by about 7 days.   
For something as simple as shutting down for 60 days, you would think we would have this virus cornered after 100+ days like the EU and Asia.   One would think..  and one would think that something as simple as wearing a mask in public is really not much of a burden to bear for people here in the US - given how effective it is in stopping the spread - as all other developed nations mandated.  Here we are sitting 100+ days into this.. while other nations are doing laps around us and getting back to normal lives, while we fret about our day, figuring out ways to "beat the system".   These days, there seems to be no greater cause than that of "cause of self", and "number of followers", and "why can't I".    As Jurassic park states (a paraphrase) - the best movie ever -


People in the US are so preoccupied with [/size]whether[/color][/size] or not [/color][/size]they[/color][/size] could do something, [/color][/size]they[/color][/size] never [/color][/size]stop to think if they actually should... [/color]





 
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: alfirst on July 21, 2020, 10:31:10 AM
It's not about support one or the other - and your comment is political too, by the way. I do not want to divide though...


But let's get back to hockey situation - if they shut down everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, leaving only true essentials  - for whatever period needed (and I'll leave "simple matter" of who's paying for that as it's for another forum) - then we can all concentrate on family, health etc.


But as shut down works very sporadically  - and hockey is being played across the US - one might feel on the wrong side of competition. On top of that - rinks have been open for a while (some earlier than others) and I have never heard of anything "virus-wise" since then related to youth hockey. We have been skating since May and same kids are coming to practices. It is not like people fall dead or sick left and right. And most rinks do a great job (wearing a mask dressing up to skates seems overboard but whatever) -  following county guidance to mitigate potential risks.
So personally (and of course I might me wrong - but so far it works) - I do not feel too much risk in youth hockey.
Not more than me having to go to the office once in a while (closed environment) or to some stores.


Again, I also totally understand people who do not want to do youth sports now while I am with those who with some precautions want to continue playing - and, yes, including games.
We did not feel comfortable (and did not feel necessary) to go to the tournament as it included flying - would hate to sit in a mask on a plane for several hours - but play locally has been working
for us so far.


Could we all agree on both positions?   
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: fistocuffs on July 21, 2020, 10:57:20 AM
I see a few sides.  If you talk to most families, they are doing everything they can and are following all the things to keep safety in the front.  When groups are small and its the exception rather the norm, it feels manageable and maybe it is - given its time-boxed and senses are heightened.     


My concern is the random nature when you turn the faucet on for all.  The unpredictability of people is what undermines it for everyone.   


I know that if nobody goes to a rink, plays a game, etc.. there is a ZERO chance of spread
I feel that if a few groups willing to take the risk, and represents the exception of the base, they will manage it for a period of time.  There is a minimized chance. (But maybe a false sense of security forms - like when you finally think you have figured out your golf swing.)


I feel that if everyone is now in the mix - even with rules in place - and during COVID's unchecked spread, there is a good to fair chance it will spread (this is my concern case), it only takes a few groups and a couple lapses to undo do everything.


Because of this, i like and know the ZERO chance outcome.



Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: 2 Cups in LA on July 21, 2020, 11:16:49 AM
Well said Fisticuffs!!!
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: HockeyGuy-99 on July 21, 2020, 12:31:26 PM
AAA teams can sign but CAHA will not be approving any USA Hockey rosters for anyone to travel out of state once the "nationwide" season starts.  Come September you'll all be asking yourselves why you signed on the 24th of July. 


Play some soccer in the back or front yard to work on foot speed, play wiffle ball to keep you hand eye coordination sharp and throw the baseball around so your AAA hockey player doesn't look like a fish out of water when he joins a men's softball team when he's 22 and looking to try something new in life that he never got to try. Maybe have your kid run some routes and throw a football to him. 


If I not mistaken the two California boys that got drafted 1st round last year were the only ones in their age group that never played in the spring and summer.  They were off becoming athletes!  There's an opportunity that has been forced on each and everyone of us!  I hope you are all taking advantage of it as I'm sure we'll all be back to business of year round hockey by this time next year, being sold that you'll be left behind if you don't spend gobs of money inside my rink this off-season.  Be the daddy coach at home that's always banging on the glass at the rink.  These kids are high-end 13-14 year old boys.  They'll be back to form in 2 weeks once they get back to skating 5 days a week. 







 
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: 2 Cups in LA on July 21, 2020, 02:20:32 PM
Hockey Guy 99 Your right!  Kids should be playing more than one sport. 
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: HM on July 21, 2020, 02:41:10 PM
RE HockeyGuys first sentence: should that happen,  I can see players  DROP and regroup under the banner of independent teams. Not all, but certainly some. I hope CAHA doesn't try the strong arm approach.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: fistocuffs on July 21, 2020, 04:25:12 PM
Here is a CAHA snippet


Member League Clubs are not permitted to form independent teams that solely participate outside of CAHA sanctioned league play. 


This has been on the books for a while if memory serves.   


AAA hockey is a very very small percentage of overall youth hockey in CA.   Here is an interesting page
https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/us-state/active-nhl-players-born-in-california-career-stats.html (https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/us-state/active-nhl-players-born-in-california-career-stats.html)


8 active players.  List seems to be missing a few names, but for the names i do see - they left CA after Bantam.  Its a smattering across birth years for sure.    overall ods seem to be 1/4000.


What I have seen is that the kids that do make it are simply natural born athletes to say the least - they are "that" kid in your neighborhood that is great playing baseball, can run pretty quick, great reflexes, and most of all loves the sport - any sport.     Some kids take lessons 5 days a week - they are technically very good, but they seem to not have "it".  Those kids that have "it" will take summers off, maybe ski, maybe play golf, who knows, then they throw on the skates and in a matter of 2-3 weeks they are zipping around skating circles around everyone else. 
These kids have a shot.   They are gifted.     


So, I am of the camp that your whole future is not ruined because you cannot get on a team while COVID is ripping around the country.  If people are that worried about losing their competitive edge - i feel you lost it long ago.


Kids more often than not make it not because of the parents,  but in spite of the parents.     Most of the kids that have the chance, can play a few sports.  They pick the one they love the most - dont make them hate hockey before they turn 14.











Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: HM on July 21, 2020, 04:52:01 PM
I wasn't referring to member clubs. I would not expect Kings,Ducks et al to form an independent team.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: JackBender on July 21, 2020, 06:52:58 PM
Sorry Fist... you lost me at Jurassic Park being the best movie ever.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: alfirst on July 21, 2020, 07:04:18 PM
Nice story, Fist. You are obviously entitled to your own opinion - and the funny part you are talking about making NHL - which I e.g. did not even mention, How about - college at the most
 or just be better than average players (who take summers off due to various reasons) and having fun in games.
I can't see the future - and especially now would not care too much about 5-6 year ahead. But I do care now.
And I know for the fact that people at this age in eastern European countries spend crazy time on ice and the best of them fill the leagues afterwards - the very best NHL. They do not take summers off during the development years - 12-14.
Yes, the stars/gifted will shine no matter what - but that's a small % that you see on the front page of magazines. There are tons of hard working guys who just out skated the competition.


In any case - deal for now just to strive to be better. I am telling you - tons of kids are skating. So if you are around average - you might miss the boat... But  - it's everyone decision for sure.       
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: 5lap5hot on July 22, 2020, 08:01:25 AM
College is a stretch unless you want them to play ACHA DII.  The NCAA DI schools are pulling the best of the kids from Juniors very few are selected from high school to play.  That's why you get so many 20 year old freshman at the DI schools.  They had to play JRs for a couple years.  You still have to be a player with "it" to make DI.  If you want to play NCAA DIII its a bit easier, but again no scholarships unless you're 3.7 or higher since they can only offer academic scholarships.  ACHA DI and DII are good choices for a great college experience, but your still going to be paying to play hockey and you're going to have to pick your school and then try out.  NCAA DI are full up through 2005 birth year (not many spots available)so unless you're standing out now probably time to enjoy the time off.


Problem with playing different sports now is that there aren't any. 
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: notTHATdad on July 22, 2020, 10:17:44 AM
Here is a CAHA snippet


Member League Clubs are not permitted to form independent teams that solely participate outside of CAHA sanctioned league play. 





I don't think anyone was suggesting forming independent teams. The only point was that T1EHL will go on, so there will be at least 3 existing teams in the state playing games. CAHA certainly wont get in the way of that.


Absolutely, the best hockey players tend to be the best natural athletes. I think that's very different than 'playing multiple organized sports', which is where a lot of people get it wrong. For a player taking hockey seriously at the 15+ (maybe 13+) AAA level, it's actually very difficult to commit to a second organized sport. Hockey is a 10 month a year sport (unfortunately) at this age and level. It starts with practices in August. The season (hopefully) goes to March if you make districts. There is typically about 4 weeks off at that point, then you are in to prep for tryouts and tryouts themselves.


After (or before) that, if you are good, there is probably one to three summer events worth going to - the WHL combine, the USHL combine, and then later at the 16+ point, main jr team tryout camps. Plus a lot of the better kids will do a weeks skating camp during the summer. So there is some summer time off, but if you want to look good at those camps you are still practicing.


And yes, people will bring up the occasional example of kids that did well while skipping all camps, because most of them ARE money-grabs, but the reality is that most top end kids attend at least one or two carefully selected events every summer.


This all makes it very difficult to commit to another team. And a lot of these events are still going on this summer - certainly all the main jr camps are happening, and there have been California players flying out to attend them. What I've encouraged is for my kids to pick a main sport, and then an individual sport that can be 'fit in' to the gaps.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: ohnonotagain on July 22, 2020, 11:55:46 AM
"WHL combine, the USHL combine"

Would HIGHLY recommend the WHL combine.  USHL Combine, not so far.  Save your $.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: alfirst on July 22, 2020, 01:43:25 PM
WHL looks like happening in Canada only this year - and there are travel restrictions for US  - so not sure this is the year...
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: lcadad on July 22, 2020, 02:04:21 PM
WHL looks like happening in Canada only this year - and there are travel restrictions for US  - so not sure this is the year...


Currently Canada requires a 14 day self quarantine, so yeah, doesn't make travel from the US particularly viable right now.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: notTHATdad on July 22, 2020, 05:10:55 PM
"WHL combine, the USHL combine"

Would HIGHLY recommend the WHL combine.  USHL Combine, not so far.  Save your $.




I can only talk for one of my kids experiences at the USHL combine - it was a highlight of the year for him. Extremely good competition.
 On ice combine, off ice combine, both with reports indicating percentiles on each event, 5 games, really good lunch/presentations. Nice touches like professional photos, and nice sweaters/socks.  I think it was less than $500 (plus travel of course). Yeah, it costs, and you have to get invited (even if you register), but if it was a money grab, then they did it badly :-) There were also lots of scouts, including most of the coaches.


If you can't compete though, it would be tough. It is for real though.







Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Beer Leaguer on July 23, 2020, 07:42:23 AM
Going back east for prep school to play may not be an option this year. From what I’ve been told the ISL and eight school association have canceled fall sports. 
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Handboni on July 23, 2020, 10:03:32 AM
So does the CAHA statement on pushing tryouts mean that AAA teams can form prior to the official tryouts for the purpose of going to out of state tournaments?
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: notTHATdad on July 23, 2020, 11:11:44 AM
So does the CAHA statement on pushing tryouts mean that AAA teams can form prior to the official tryouts for the purpose of going to out of state tournaments?



They can start to form teams as of tomorrow. For T1EHL, the first tournament is in October, and is optional, so it is after tryouts. My guess is most of the teams skip the October tournament. The next is November. Not sure if they could do 'other' tournaments. I doubt it, but it's a good question. They would have to be out of state too.



Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: HockeyGuy-99 on July 23, 2020, 11:44:00 AM
So does the CAHA statement on pushing tryouts mean that AAA teams can form prior to the official tryouts for the purpose of going to out of state tournaments?


Nope! CAHA will not be approving out of state tournaments!  This will be so you no longer have the flexibility to skate here or there.  Now you can be locked into paying off-season dues and getting that structure we're all missing.  Nothing more.  We'll all be training until at least January. 


These signings are nothing more than a carrot on the end of a stick and we're all the donkeys aimlessly walking and trying to bite onto something we'll never get to eat this year. 


On the brightside, the 21'-22' season will be here before you know it.  Sorry for the pessimistic, depressing, sad, yet very truthful reality of this upcoming season.  Save your money, train with the coach of your choosing and find a group of old hockey friends and scrimmage somewhere that'll allow you until there is some real clarity.   
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Handboni on July 23, 2020, 11:50:13 AM
The AAA teams play more than just T1EHL tournaments, T1EHL is only part of their schedule.  Most of the western AAA teams (including California teams) had planned on going to the following tournaments in September:


Omaha USHL
USHL Fall Classic -- Pittsburgh


Allowing AAA teams to roster players tomorrow (unlike AA), and specifically referencing that AAA teams play most of their games out of state, only makes sense if it's for the purpose of practicing in August and playing out of state tournaments prior to October 1 tryouts.


Does anyone have a different take on this?  The CAHA announcement is not a model of clarity (I know, shocker).  What are the AAA teams telling you the CAHA announcement means and are any starting practicing and going to out of state tournaments in September?
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Hamacher Checking Camp on July 23, 2020, 01:16:00 PM
Any U15/U16 (2005 & 2004) looking for a place to play, with clarity and solid plans to weather any national, state or league governing body shutdowns or pushouts, please contact me.

This is for players that were planning to play AAA in CA or east coast Prep
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: notTHATdad on July 23, 2020, 02:21:45 PM
The AAA teams play more than just T1EHL tournaments, T1EHL is only part of their schedule.  Most of the western AAA teams (including California teams) had planned on going to the following tournaments in September:


Omaha USHL
USHL Fall Classic -- Pittsburgh


Allowing AAA teams to roster players tomorrow (unlike AA), and specifically referencing that AAA teams play most of their games out of state, only makes sense if it's for the purpose of practicing in August and playing out of state tournaments prior to October 1 tryouts.


Does anyone have a different take on this?  The CAHA announcement is not a model of clarity (I know, shocker).  What are the AAA teams telling you the CAHA announcement means and are any starting practicing and going to out of state tournaments in September?



I'm guessing you are correct.  The thing that is in doubt are probably the in-California 'extra' tournaments. The Sharks usually have a few teams in town in September (won't happen), and over Christmas.


The Jr Sharks are having a web meeting with players on Sunday to discuss. I'm sure we'll know more by then.



Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Knuckle Puck on July 23, 2020, 02:43:25 PM
ne prep hockey season normally doesn't start until late november. skill sessions can continue, and that won't be any issue at schools with on campus rinks. bigger question is what happens with the split season clubs that many kids play on in the fall. from what i hear, most of the ne prep schools still plan to open with in-person classes, so the kids got that going for them, which is nice.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: alfirst on July 23, 2020, 03:10:57 PM
But, say, AA teams can still play out of town tournaments,
Just not using official club names - as they normally do before tryouts.
Anything prevent them to do that?
If like somebody days there is no season in 2020 that
might be the only option to have competitive games





Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: notTHATdad on July 23, 2020, 03:29:22 PM
But, say, AA teams can still play out of town tournaments,
Just not using official club names - as they normally do before tryouts.
Anything prevent them to do that?
If like somebody days there is no season in 2020 that
might be the only option to have competitive games


You definitely need a USAHockey roster for any USAHockey sanctioned tournament. Our affiliate is CAHA, so I believe that to register a roster it means it has to go through CAHA. Since CAHA is not allowing formation of AA teams before tryouts I'm guessing that means AA teams have to wait until mid October.  But I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Beer Leaguer on July 23, 2020, 03:31:50 PM
https://www.andover.edu/2020plan (https://www.andover.edu/2020plan)




They aren’t planning on fully opening to start year.  The ISL and the 8 school association which Philips is in has cancelled Fall sports.
There is no guarantee it’s any better there. Rinks open as much as they are.
We rolled back and so could they.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: alfirst on July 23, 2020, 07:08:19 PM
But how then teams have been participating in off-season tournaments?
I heard ID just returned from Chicago CCM (they did play under some weird name) and prior to COVID in every off-season (pre-tryouts) teams were going to tournaments.
So I guess - there's a way to do it. 
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: JackBender on July 23, 2020, 10:03:13 PM
So does the CAHA statement on pushing tryouts mean that AAA teams can form prior to the official tryouts for the purpose of going to out of state tournaments?


Nope! CAHA will not be approving out of state tournaments!  This will be so you no longer have the flexibility to skate here or there.  Now you can be locked into paying off-season dues and getting that structure we're all missing.  Nothing more.  We'll all be training until at least January. 


These signings are nothing more than a carrot on the end of a stick and we're all the donkeys aimlessly walking and trying to bite onto something we'll never get to eat this year. 


On the brightside, the 21'-22' season will be here before you know it.  Sorry for the pessimistic, depressing, sad, yet very truthful reality of this upcoming season.  Save your money, train with the coach of your choosing and find a group of old hockey friends and scrimmage somewhere that'll allow you until there is some real clarity.


You are 100% WRONG. Starting Friday, AAA teams can roster per CAHA and USA Hockey rules.  Read the actual statement.  That is the point, to allow AAA teams to travel and play out-of-state tournaments.  And I quote...


"For Tier 1 only (due to the fact that Tier 1 teams play a majority of the season's games outside of CAHA League play), starting Friday, July 24, 2020, CAHA approved Tier 1 teams may roster players without a physical on-ice tryout."


Crystal clear.  A few AA coaches have been trying to subvert this CAHA declaration to protect their AA kids who might bolt for AAA... but they are lying.  CAHA is allowing AAA teams to form so they can play out-of-state USA Hockey-sanctioned tournaments. Chicago CCM was last weekend.  The Prep Cup is this weekend. They are happening.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Strawman on July 23, 2020, 11:32:33 PM
The AAA teams play more than just T1EHL tournaments, T1EHL is only part of their schedule.  Most of the western AAA teams (including California teams) had planned on going to the following tournaments in September:


Omaha USHL
USHL Fall Classic -- Pittsburgh


Allowing AAA teams to roster players tomorrow (unlike AA), and specifically referencing that AAA teams play most of their games out of state, only makes sense if it's for the purpose of practicing in August and playing out of state tournaments prior to October 1 tryouts.


Does anyone have a different take on this?  The CAHA announcement is not a model of clarity (I know, shocker).  What are the AAA teams telling you the CAHA announcement means and are any starting practicing and going to out of state tournaments in September?

This is not happening.  According to several AAA coaches with whom I've spoken, California AAA "teams" will not be allowed to compete in USA Hockey sanctioned events out of state until California enters "Phase 4" re-opening ... which might possibly happen sometime in 2027 if we are very lucky.  Of course everything could change at a moment's notice.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Strawman on July 23, 2020, 11:37:43 PM
But, say, AA teams can still play out of town tournaments,
Just not using official club names - as they normally do before tryouts.
Anything prevent them to do that?
If like somebody days there is no season in 2020 that
might be the only option to have competitive games


Not happening, unless perhaps you're an "independent" team going to a non-USA-Hockey-sanctioned tournament.  This year it's PeeWee skills drills at home.  A bit of clandestine soccer if you're lucky.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Strawman on July 23, 2020, 11:39:35 PM
https://www.andover.edu/2020plan (https://www.andover.edu/2020plan)




They aren’t planning on fully opening to start year.  The ISL and the 8 school association which Philips is in has cancelled Fall sports.
There is no guarantee it’s any better there. Rinks open as much as they are.
We rolled back and so could they.


It varies state by state in the NE.  Some are completely open, with in-person schooling and sports, and hockey tournaments underway right now.  Some are closed.  It depends, but if you're in the right spot there will certainly be a lot more options in the NE than here (also in the South, Midwest, and Mountain states).
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: JackBender on July 24, 2020, 07:44:43 AM
Thank you anonymous Internet person on random message board but...


You're trying to predict the future, and the current facts suggest otherwise: AAA teams are forming this weekend or the next around the entire country (if they haven't formed already) to start practicing as teams, the Prep Cup in New Hampshire is happening this weekend, as is the USHL Combine in Green Bay, Wisconsin... and CAHA's official release specifically allows teams to form for the purpose to attend out-of-state tournaments


So, yes, this could be a giant conspiracy by USA Hockey and CAHA and every other sanctioned state hockey body to lock up their players now... so they can shut everything down in September, but the truth likely lies somewhere in-between. This season will certainly be odd and frustrating and different... but things will happen. Teams will find a way.  And the rinks, coaches, clubs and USA Hockey will get their money.


To quote Fist's favorite movie ever, Jurassic Park: "Life will find a way." Or in this case... hockey. 
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Rats13 on July 24, 2020, 11:53:54 AM
Thank you anonymous Internet person on random message board but...


You're trying to predict the future, and the current facts suggest otherwise: AAA teams are forming this weekend or the next around the entire country (if they haven't formed already) to start practicing as teams, the Prep Cup in New Hampshire is happening this weekend, as is the USHL Combine in Green Bay, Wisconsin... and CAHA's official release specifically allows teams to form for the purpose to attend out-of-state tournaments


So, yes, this could be a giant conspiracy by USA Hockey and CAHA and every other sanctioned state hockey body to lock up their players now... so they can shut everything down in September, but the truth likely lies somewhere in-between. This season will certainly be odd and frustrating and different... but things will happen. Teams will find a way.  And the rinks, coaches, clubs and USA Hockey will get their money.


To quote Fist's favorite movie ever, Jurassic Park: "Life will find a way." Or in this case... hockey.


Are the kids really locked up?  Sounds like they can drop at any time and actually can't sign a commitment or pay money. Also defining "skating with another club" is hazy at best.  Most skates are with "coaches" so probably don't fall under that.


 
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Strawman on July 24, 2020, 12:32:52 PM
Thank you anonymous Internet person on random message board but...


You're trying to predict the future, and the current facts suggest otherwise: AAA teams are forming this weekend or the next around the entire country (if they haven't formed already) to start practicing as teams, the Prep Cup in New Hampshire is happening this weekend, as is the USHL Combine in Green Bay, Wisconsin... and CAHA's official release specifically allows teams to form for the purpose to attend out-of-state tournaments


So, yes, this could be a giant conspiracy by USA Hockey and CAHA and every other sanctioned state hockey body to lock up their players now... so they can shut everything down in September, but the truth likely lies somewhere in-between. This season will certainly be odd and frustrating and different... but things will happen. Teams will find a way.  And the rinks, coaches, clubs and USA Hockey will get their money.


To quote Fist's favorite movie ever, Jurassic Park: "Life will find a way." Or in this case... hockey.


Are the kids really locked up?  Sounds like they can drop at any time and actually can't sign a commitment or pay money. Also defining "skating with another club" is hazy at best.  Most skates are with "coaches" so probably don't fall under that.


You are correct. CAHA’s announcement specifically says players cannot be committed and clubs can’t charge them fees. Jack can fantasize whatever he wants, but folks should talk to coaches to find out what it all actually means.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Rats13 on July 24, 2020, 12:57:34 PM
Thank you anonymous Internet person on random message board but...


You're trying to predict the future, and the current facts suggest otherwise: AAA teams are forming this weekend or the next around the entire country (if they haven't formed already) to start practicing as teams, the Prep Cup in New Hampshire is happening this weekend, as is the USHL Combine in Green Bay, Wisconsin... and CAHA's official release specifically allows teams to form for the purpose to attend out-of-state tournaments


So, yes, this could be a giant conspiracy by USA Hockey and CAHA and every other sanctioned state hockey body to lock up their players now... so they can shut everything down in September, but the truth likely lies somewhere in-between. This season will certainly be odd and frustrating and different... but things will happen. Teams will find a way.  And the rinks, coaches, clubs and USA Hockey will get their money.


To quote Fist's favorite movie ever, Jurassic Park: "Life will find a way." Or in this case... hockey.


Are the kids really locked up?  Sounds like they can drop at any time and actually can't sign a commitment or pay money. Also defining "skating with another club" is hazy at best.  Most skates are with "coaches" so probably don't fall under that.


You are correct. CAHA’s announcement specifically says players cannot be committed and clubs can’t charge them fees. Jack can fantasize whatever he wants, but folks should talk to coaches to find out what it all actually means.


My first reaction to this was wow kids potentially have more leverage in this situation as well as high potential from drama.  :o
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: alfirst on July 24, 2020, 01:06:23 PM
I still do not get it - how we used to participate in off-season out-of-state tournaments all prior years and can't do it now.
We have not used official club name - something similar - but still played.   
And Memorial Day  - Carmen Star - was also prior tryouts - and there teams were wearing club uniforms.
Something has changed? 
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: notTHATdad on July 24, 2020, 03:43:04 PM
I still do not get it - how we used to participate in off-season out-of-state tournaments all prior years and can't do it now.
We have not used official club name - something similar - but still played.   
And Memorial Day  - Carmen Star - was also prior tryouts - and there teams were wearing club uniforms.
Something has changed?


Could be they were using a 'tournament roster', which is a special purpose roster for a tournament. Still has to go through CAHA/USAHockey. Kids still have to be registered with USAHockey. I don't remember what all the rules were for that from my team manager days.









Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: fistocuffs on July 24, 2020, 05:37:20 PM
You are correct in tourney rosters   I think main difference is Covid and state currently saying no bueno to youth team indoor contact sports


Caha most likely wants to make it extremely obvious that as a California non profit that represents the state for most all ammetaur youth  indoor contact team sport. That it stands on the correct side of the state heath guidelines at all times


I do not know much about law. But I am pretty sure that any and all waivers do not apply to indirect parties.   Say. You form a team and take it to Reno.  You all sign waivers. You all feel protected.  But your opponents team managers husband did not and was not at event.   14 days later he lands on a ventilator


Now the fun begins.   The last thing any group like caha wants to hear is that they approved rosters and supported team play. Even though state manadate says no team sports allowed for youth in ca


It’s all fun and games until someone dies. Then then people like to place blame.


The rule is simple.  Ca say no indoor contact team sports allowed in ca.   You can ask anyone in government health org. Doctors.  Practictioners.  They will all say it’s clear


What makes it hard is when you try to find ways around it and think it’s all going to be good for everyone.    It may in fact be ok in the end.  But it’s that one time when it’s not that really gives all parties to the fact. A sever dose of reality


Most rational people would say. Waiting 90 days is not going to kill anyone


Not waiting just may kill a few




Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Stick Tap on July 24, 2020, 07:37:53 PM


Most rational people would say. Waiting 90 days is not going to kill anyone


Not waiting just may kill a few


Oh stop it. 9 million kids 18 years or younger in the state of California and NOT 1 has died of Covid! Influenza is much deadlier for kids and no one thinks twice about stepping into the rink in the heart of flu season. Kids are fine. Let them play. Let them go to school. 2 weeks to slow the curve has been 5 months. But sure, let's tack on 3 more months. It's just their CHILDHOOD! All good, they'll be young forever.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: alfirst on July 24, 2020, 10:47:10 PM
Fist just wasn't at the rinks of late - there are tons of kids skating (of all ages and levels) and some of them putting serious hours there.
It's all called "day camps"  - but does not differ from practices and clinics too much.
So "indirect parties" have been affected for some time. Indirect parties can also get hurt in a variety of ways - die in a car crash while driving to/from the rink, get assaulted by peaceful protesters while hanging out in big cities for tournaments etc etc.
And I think there was some legal ruling disallowing COVID related lawsuits.

However I guess that discussion is endless and unproductive- as nobody will prove anything to anybody.

I wonder, why even bother on forums for those who decided to sit it out...

Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Strawman on July 25, 2020, 12:03:34 AM


Most rational people would say. Waiting 90 days is not going to kill anyone


Not waiting just may kill a few


Oh stop it. 9 million kids 18 years or younger in the state of California and NOT 1 has died of Covid! Influenza is much deadlier for kids and no one thinks twice about stepping into the rink in the heart of flu season. Kids are fine. Let them play. Let them go to school. 2 weeks to slow the curve has been 5 months. But sure, let's tack on 3 more months. It's just their CHILDHOOD! All good, they'll be young forever.


Lightning strikes are statistically a more serious risk for people under 20 than Covid.  California must cancel weather next.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: fistocuffs on July 27, 2020, 08:27:25 AM
okay.. this is getting like religion.   I am trying to be as clear as possible.  Its NOT THE KIDS that will be impacted.    KIDS become carriers and spread it to people unknowingly.  I am worried about who gets indirectly infected.   Its called transmission by a carrier.  The Kid is the carrier, the the one who most likely will die.    This is exactly what CDC and state is worried about.



Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: fistocuffs on July 27, 2020, 08:49:54 AM


Most rational people would say. Waiting 90 days is not going to kill anyone


Not waiting just may kill a few


Oh stop it. 9 million kids 18 years or younger in the state of California and NOT 1 has died of Covid! Influenza is much deadlier for kids and no one thinks twice about stepping into the rink in the heart of flu season. Kids are fine. Let them play. Let them go to school. 2 weeks to slow the curve has been 5 months. But sure, let's tack on 3 more months. It's just their CHILDHOOD! All good, they'll be young forever.


Since flu kills 60k 100k over a 12 month period, with no quarantining in place - and allowed to run rampant and unchecked - and no hospital contained at 100% no shortage of ventilators, etc
COVID - on track to kill 200k people in 9 months - massive lockdowns in place - economy shuttered, hospitals in hotspots overrun - ICU's full capacity.. 
I can only imagine what COVID would do if we simply treated it like the flu.


ok.  Lets try to explain it this way. 


Person:


"I drove my car through a mall and hit no one - therefore its safe to drive car through mall"


Police:


"Ah, you drove your car through the mall when no-one was there at 3:00 am. So there was no one to hurt, still you should really not be doing this in general"


Person:
"I don't get it, if I drive my car through the mall and hit no one - its safe to drive through mall - no one will get hurt, right?.  I was fine for sure - as you can see I am alive - so no one will get killed."


Police:
"Ah... well, if people are in the mall at the time - Odds are that you will hit someone - since there will be people there at the time, and you no doubt will injure a few and most likely kill a few.  You being in a car and all.  Will most likely be ok."


Person:
"That makes no sense and is dumb - I Already drove through mall - and no one got hurt - its as safe as driving down the road. (aka flu) - you guys just don't want me to drive through the mall - you are infringing on my right to drive.  "


Police:  "Yikers... ok.  You cannot compare like that.  When no one is in the mall - there is no one there to hit - so it appears safe, but if you do this when its open and 10k people are milling about - you will kill a-lot of people... do you understand this?"


Person:  "I don't.  I am fine, I drove the the mall and did not die. No problem at all - in fact it was safe.  I know this because I was fine and no one got killed.  So if I don't die, no one else will.  All drivers that drive through malls will be just fine,  no driver has died.  Why are you so worried.."


Police:   arrgggh.   I really do not know what to say at this point.  You will be fine, you are in a car, you can cause quite a bit of damage most likely, but you as the driver will be fine.    Are you saying that since you are fine and all other drivers that attempt such a trick will be fine - because you already did this at 3:00 am - when mall was empty???"


Person: Exactly - you have proven my point.  No one will get hurt - everyone will be fine. 


Police:  Who is everyone?  in your mind?


person:  Well.  Me and the other drivers of course


Police:  What about all the people walking around in the mall???


Person: What about them?


Insert (time to go fishing and relax)




Police:   What about all the other people that may be in the mall when you attempt to drive through it.. say on a nice weekend afternoon???


Person:  Huh?  I am not worried about them at all.  I jus want to drive through a mall/


Police:

Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Stick Tap on July 27, 2020, 09:29:57 AM
okay.. this is getting like religion.   I am trying to be as clear as possible.  Its NOT THE KIDS that will be impacted.    KIDS become carriers and spread it to people unknowingly.  I am worried about who gets indirectly infected.   Its called transmission by a carrier.  The Kid is the carrier, the the one who most likely will die.    This is exactly what CDC and state is worried about.


Quit spreading bullshit. There have been countless studies done thus far that show kids do not possess a large enough viral load to be spreaders. I could link to many articles, but here's one for now that took 2 seconds to find.


https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2020-07-13/german-study-shows-low-coronavirus-infection-rate-in-schools




""Children may even act as a brake on infection," Berner told a news conference, saying infections in schools had not led to an outbreak, while the spread of the virus within households was also less dynamic than previously thought.


Oh wait, here's another...


https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/07/20/892354171/kids-get-coronavirus-but-do-they-spread-it-well-find-out-when-schools-reopen


"[/size]"Kids don't [/size]seem[/size] to be super spreaders," says [/size]Dr. Aaron Carroll (https://medicine.iu.edu/faculty/3005/carroll-aaron)[/size], a pediatrician at Indiana University School of Medicine. "


And another...


https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2020/07/08/peds.2020-1576


Oh, one more just for fun!


http://ncirs.org.au/sites/default/files/2020-04/NCIRS%20NSW%20Schools%20COVID_Summary_FINAL%20public_26%20April%202020.pdf


Do your own research. If you are still afraid, stay home until there is a vaccine. And in the meantime, let those who are fine with the "risk" (in quotes because there isn't any actual risk!) do our thing.







Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Hamacher Checking Camp on July 27, 2020, 09:42:41 AM
Get out of bed - risk
step in to slippery shower - medium risk
eat quick and processed food - longer term risk
get in the car and drive - high risk
take stairs or elevator - risk
being inside a heavy building in earthquake territory - risk
open mouth at work or communicate in written word - risk
nibble on lunch room community food - risk
use your "clean cup" that sits on your desk - risk
drive again - high risk
do some manual labor at home - risk
drive kid to sports, rink, activity - high risk
pick up fast food on way home - longer term risk

At any point freedom allows us to pick and choose which of these we do or don't do and how each affects ourselves and all those around us.  Millions refuse to drive or fly and we don't hear about it.  SO PLEASE feel free to exercise your freedom of choice BUT do not attempt to transfer your perceived or real risk on to others.  Some things in life are worth "sitting out".  Now is your chance to do just that and do it quietly........

As for me and my house, we have weighed the risk of Covid and determined the mental health of us and our own offspring, as it relates to the 2nd and 3rd and 4th order consequences of trying to avoid "risk", is indeed orders of magnitude riskier by staying in the bubble. 









Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: KickSave on July 27, 2020, 10:07:19 AM
The number of epidemiologists and public health experts on here is truly impressive.
Wear a mask. Wash your hands. Don’t be a jerk. It’s easy stuff, but as long as we have people out doing their own thing, schools and hockey will be shut down for our kids.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Strawman on July 27, 2020, 10:40:22 AM
okay.. this is getting like religion.   I am trying to be as clear as possible.  Its NOT THE KIDS that will be impacted.    KIDS become carriers and spread it to people unknowingly.  I am worried about who gets indirectly infected.   Its called transmission by a carrier.  The Kid is the carrier, the the one who most likely will die.    This is exactly what CDC and state is worried about.


The chance of killing someone in a car accident on the way to the rink is far greater.  So here's a solution: let's cancel mankind.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: fistocuffs on July 27, 2020, 10:49:53 AM
Get out of bed - risk
step in to slippery shower - medium risk
eat quick and processed food - longer term risk
get in the car and drive - high risk
take stairs or elevator - risk
being inside a heavy building in earthquake territory - risk
open mouth at work or communicate in written word - risk
nibble on lunch room community food - risk
use your "clean cup" that sits on your desk - risk
drive again - high risk
do some manual labor at home - risk
drive kid to sports, rink, activity - high risk
pick up fast food on way home - longer term risk

At any point freedom allows us to pick and choose which of these we do or don't do and how each affects ourselves and all those around us.  Millions refuse to drive or fly and we don't hear about it.  SO PLEASE feel free to exercise your freedom of choice BUT do not attempt to transfer your perceived or real risk on to others.  Some things in life are worth "sitting out".  Now is your chance to do just that and do it quietly........

As for me and my house, we have weighed the risk of Covid and determined the mental health of us and our own offspring, as it relates to the 2nd and 3rd and 4th order consequences of trying to avoid "risk", is indeed orders of magnitude riskier by staying in the bubble. 


It makes sense now. its ok to not agree with you, as long as i do it quietly, so as not to anger you.   For the sake of self preservation..  you have convinced me.  CDC is wrong, its overblown, its just like the flu, we are worrying for nothing.  Thanks for clearing that up. 
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: fistocuffs on July 27, 2020, 10:51:57 AM
okay.. this is getting like religion.   I am trying to be as clear as possible.  Its NOT THE KIDS that will be impacted.    KIDS become carriers and spread it to people unknowingly.  I am worried about who gets indirectly infected.   Its called transmission by a carrier.  The Kid is the carrier, the the one who most likely will die.    This is exactly what CDC and state is worried about.


The chance of killing someone in a car accident on the way to the rink is far greater.  So here's a solution: let's cancel mankind.


I take it you have not been personally impacted by COVID..
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: fistocuffs on July 27, 2020, 11:07:04 AM
I do believe everyone here has points here.   There are people who are going to wait and sit it out until State and CIF believe youth sports are ready.  There are people who believe the benefits outweigh the risks to start now. 


For the people that believe now is the time to get going on Hockey, I feel now is the time to start your own league and teams.   There are rinks out there. that will support you, and there are probably enough parents and families that want to start now.   Instead of fighting it, just create a new league now, form some teams, and get going.  if USA hockey is giving you grief, SCAHA and CAHA specifically, go straight to USA - its a phone call away, they probably feel the same way as a lot of parents in Socal that want to get going.  Or reach out to AAU - they will most likely be helpful too.


Then this whole discussion becomes a mute point. IMO.

Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: justanotherhockeydad on July 27, 2020, 11:45:14 AM
It's obvious that we all have to manage and decide how much risk we're willing to take for for our kids and family. Whether you agree with the rules and decisions made by our governor, lets face it, we are lucky that rinks haven't completely shut down and that hockey is still an option for our kids, at least for now.

Since I work in an ER, my view is definitely biased. I see what covid can do and I see how contagious it is. Again, this is NOTHING like the flu. Nothing. Last week as compared to previous 2-3 weeks did slowed down a bit for hospitalization for us, but not enough to even consider the spread to be plateauing. I hear there are 31000+ positive cases in Florida for person under 17 and 300+ death. How you want to look at the infection rate vs death rate is up to you, but the truth is that scientists are inconclusive regarding how kids spread covid, and how and why kids seem to recover better than their adult counterpart. Literally every research you find says they're not sure how covid affect most kids. Make your decisions accordingly I guess.

However, what bothers me is that it is absolutely obvious that in order to defeat/slow this pandemic, it will take a collective effort from EVERYONE. Forget hockey, what about the economy, schools and our daily lives? If we don't do our part, this will never return to any form of normality. I see pictures of camps with kids crowding in the lobby, crowding on the ice and picture taken with large group of kids on ice, no mask (understandable on ice...) and no distancing. Not to mention, I still see kids not wearing masks in the rink... You know that if you don't follow rink rules, your rink could be shut down right?

Can't people just follow rules and guidelines, for the sake of the kids' safety, even if you don't agree with how your 'freedom' is being trampled?! I mean, we have rules about wearing pants, right? Is your freedom being violated because you can't run around buck naked? We have rules preventing folks from driving 130mph on the freeway, right? Is your freedom being trampled there also?

Again, whether you believe it or not, Covid is real and it doesn't give a flying F what you believe in. You will be infected if you're not careful. You may not die, but you may also spread it to others who may die. Do what you will, but at the very least have the courtesy and respect for others who may not be as healthy as you, wear your mask, tell your kids to wear their masks, and do your best to social distance.

Good luck to you all.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Stick Tap on July 27, 2020, 12:31:44 PM
The number of epidemiologists and public health experts on here is truly impressive.
Wear a mask. Wash your hands. Don’t be a jerk. It’s easy stuff, but as long as we have people out doing their own thing, schools and hockey will be shut down for our kids.


And promptly proceeds to give advice as an epidemiologist and public health expert. Well played.

Let's just wear masks because that seems to be working.  But wait... One month after California Gov. Gavin Newsom unilaterally ordered state residents to wear masks in most public settings, the average daily number of coronavirus cases in the state has increased by over 160%

I'm sure it's just the people who don't believe in masks who are getting sick, right?

That said, if I have to wear one so I can watch my kid play hockey, sure, I'll happily wear it.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: KickSave on July 27, 2020, 01:14:48 PM
Cute. But I was actually simply repeating the rather simple advice from those experts.


You think people are following that mandate? Maybe if everyone did, we’d actually know something, like whether it works or not.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Stick Tap on July 27, 2020, 01:38:11 PM
Cute. But I was actually simply repeating the rather simple advice from those experts.


You think people are following that mandate? Maybe if everyone did, we’d actually know something, like whether it works or not.


You mean the same "experts" who had said up until a couple of months ago that masks don't work?
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Strawman on July 27, 2020, 04:52:26 PM
It's obvious that we all have to manage and decide how much risk we're willing to take for for our kids and family. Whether you agree with the rules and decisions made by our governor, lets face it, we are lucky that rinks haven't completely shut down and that hockey is still an option for our kids, at least for now.

Since I work in an ER, my view is definitely biased. I see what covid can do and I see how contagious it is. Again, this is NOTHING like the flu. Nothing. Last week as compared to previous 2-3 weeks did slowed down a bit for hospitalization for us, but not enough to even consider the spread to be plateauing. I hear there are 31000+ positive cases in Florida for person under 17 and 300+ death. How you want to look at the infection rate vs death rate is up to you, but the truth is that scientists are inconclusive regarding how kids spread covid, and how and why kids seem to recover better than their adult counterpart. Literally every research you find says they're not sure how covid affect most kids. Make your decisions accordingly I guess.

However, what bothers me is that it is absolutely obvious that in order to defeat/slow this pandemic, it will take a collective effort from EVERYONE. Forget hockey, what about the economy, schools and our daily lives? If we don't do our part, this will never return to any form of normality. I see pictures of camps with kids crowding in the lobby, crowding on the ice and picture taken with large group of kids on ice, no mask (understandable on ice...) and no distancing. Not to mention, I still see kids not wearing masks in the rink... You know that if you don't follow rink rules, your rink could be shut down right?

Can't people just follow rules and guidelines, for the sake of the kids' safety, even if you don't agree with how your 'freedom' is being trampled?! I mean, we have rules about wearing pants, right? Is your freedom being violated because you can't run around buck naked? We have rules preventing folks from driving 130mph on the freeway, right? Is your freedom being trampled there also?

Again, whether you believe it or not, Covid is real and it doesn't give a flying F what you believe in. You will be infected if you're not careful. You may not die, but you may also spread it to others who may die. Do what you will, but at the very least have the courtesy and respect for others who may not be as healthy as you, wear your mask, tell your kids to wear their masks, and do your best to social distance.

Good luck to you all.


This is Trumpism in reverse. "I hear there are 31000+ positive cases in Florida for person under 17 and 300+ death."


In fact, this over-states the under-17 mortality in the entire United States by many times.  As of a few days ago, there had been 25 COVID deaths in the 1-15 age cohort in the entire country since February (compared with 90 in the same age group who died from seasonal flu during the same period, i.e., during flu "off season").  During that period there were exactly 2 deaths in Florida between the ages of 0-15 and 0 in California under the age of 20.  The infection fatality ratio for those under 20 is about 0.0002% (more than an order of magnitude less than the flu, and several times less than their annual risk of dying from lightning strikes). 


If adults choose to shut the world down because they are afraid for themselves, so be it, but let's not pretend we're doing it for the kids.



Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: justanotherhockeydad on July 27, 2020, 05:30:37 PM
Thank you for correcting my mistake. I'm not sure why I wrote 300+ deaths, it must've been something else I was thinking about, likely hospitalization number. But, you're correct, I was wrong. The article I read said

"On July 16, the state had a total of 23,170 children ages 17 and under who had tested positive since the beginning of the pandemic, according to the Florida Department of Health. By July 24, that number jumped to 31,150.That's a 34% increase in new cases among children in eight days. And more children in Florida are requiring hospitalization. As of July 16, 246 children had been hospitalized with coronavirus. By July 24, that number had jumped to 303."


Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: fistocuffs on July 28, 2020, 08:23:57 AM
It's obvious that we all have to manage and decide how much risk we're willing to take for for our kids and family. Whether you agree with the rules and decisions made by our governor, lets face it, we are lucky that rinks haven't completely shut down and that hockey is still an option for our kids, at least for now.

Since I work in an ER, my view is definitely biased. I see what covid can do and I see how contagious it is. Again, this is NOTHING like the flu. Nothing. Last week as compared to previous 2-3 weeks did slowed down a bit for hospitalization for us, but not enough to even consider the spread to be plateauing. I hear there are 31000+ positive cases in Florida for person under 17 and 300+ death. How you want to look at the infection rate vs death rate is up to you, but the truth is that scientists are inconclusive regarding how kids spread covid, and how and why kids seem to recover better than their adult counterpart. Literally every research you find says they're not sure how covid affect most kids. Make your decisions accordingly I guess.

However, what bothers me is that it is absolutely obvious that in order to defeat/slow this pandemic, it will take a collective effort from EVERYONE. Forget hockey, what about the economy, schools and our daily lives? If we don't do our part, this will never return to any form of normality. I see pictures of camps with kids crowding in the lobby, crowding on the ice and picture taken with large group of kids on ice, no mask (understandable on ice...) and no distancing. Not to mention, I still see kids not wearing masks in the rink... You know that if you don't follow rink rules, your rink could be shut down right?

Can't people just follow rules and guidelines, for the sake of the kids' safety, even if you don't agree with how your 'freedom' is being trampled?! I mean, we have rules about wearing pants, right? Is your freedom being violated because you can't run around buck naked? We have rules preventing folks from driving 130mph on the freeway, right? Is your freedom being trampled there also?

Again, whether you believe it or not, Covid is real and it doesn't give a flying F what you believe in. You will be infected if you're not careful. You may not die, but you may also spread it to others who may die. Do what you will, but at the very least have the courtesy and respect for others who may not be as healthy as you, wear your mask, tell your kids to wear their masks, and do your best to social distance.

Good luck to you all.


This is Trumpism in reverse. "I hear there are 31000+ positive cases in Florida for person under 17 and 300+ death."


In fact, this over-states the under-17 mortality in the entire United States by many times.  As of a few days ago, there had been 25 COVID deaths in the 1-15 age cohort in the entire country since February (compared with 90 in the same age group who died from seasonal flu during the same period, i.e., during flu "off season").  During that period there were exactly 2 deaths in Florida between the ages of 0-15 and 0 in California under the age of 20.  The infection fatality ratio for those under 20 is about 0.0002% (more than an order of magnitude less than the flu, and several times less than their annual risk of dying from lightning strikes). 


If adults choose to shut the world down because they are afraid for themselves, so be it, but let's not pretend we're doing it for the kids.


Thank you Strawman,  I felt very uneducated by CDD, WHO, most of the countries leadership, Almost every doctor/nurse I know.  For a second there, I was believing them, and most of my family (who fall under the "medical field" category).   It certainly takes a mental genius to really understand that this is really overblown and the world is overreacting.   I mean, original projections said 120k-160k deaths,  after some genius reviews - it was altered to more like 60k back in April/May - the rest are simply over reporting and inaccurate reporting.   We are fortunate to be living in a time where mental geniuses are abound.  There is no doubt that if we had more people that did not overreact back in 1918, that Spanish flu would not have killed millions.  And it would be rightfully called the Spanish Flu - vs The Kansas, USA flue.   Deaths Probably more like less than 20 individuals, vs millions.   I cannot thank you enough for clarifying
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: UhhhhDuhhhh on July 28, 2020, 10:26:23 AM
I take it you have not been personally impacted by COVID..

I HAVE been personally impacted by Covid 19.  I’ve had it.  I had a few days of sore muscles.  Two lady’s in my office had it. One had loss of smell and nothing else, the other who is obese and has diabetes had a slight cough and a little difficulty breathing.  I have a friend I play hockey with age 56, he had it and not one symptom.  My 82 year old mother had it and had muscle aches and a sore throat.  My 85 year old father who has a heart condition never got it but continues to go out and see his friends and up until the latest shutdowns was going to the gym and to restaurants almost every day.  I kept telling him to stay home, "you're high risk" but he refused to stay home and says he’s not going to live in lockdown and he isn’t afraid to die.  I see tons of very old people out and about everyday. They are the ones at risk and many obviously don’t seem afraid.

It’s OK if you want to live in fear and stay in your house.  If you’re going to do that, make sure everybody else in your house goes nowhere and see’s no one else; including going to the grocery store and including your son or daughter seeing one friend who saw one other friend etc., etc.  That’s what it would take to TEMPORARILY stop/slow the virus.   I have an essential business to run so it's off to work for me.  Don’t push your fear onto others with silly scenarios about driving through a mall.  Until there’s a vaccine, the virus will continue to go through communities, nothing will stop it.  Masks, hand washing may slow it’s spread but like New York City or Sweden or other places that‘ve had the virus run it’s course, IT WILL, and some unhealthy people will die, then it will slow and you will see the cases dwindle.  It’s SCIENCE "listen to the science", it’s called the survival of the fittest, natural selection, and evolution; EDUCATE YOURSELF and what is the CDD.  Your fear mongering isn’t going to stop it, neither will your sarcasm or condescending posts.  The original estimated deaths was 2.2 million in the USA then revised down to 60,000ish and now on the high end it's 240,000 or 0.00075 of the population and thus hardly a risk.

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data.page

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: 805hockey on July 28, 2020, 05:26:07 PM
Soooo, basically what I glean from this thread is that it sounds like no hockey this season...at least for us non-tier folks
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: fistocuffs on July 29, 2020, 07:06:09 AM
Thank you for setting me straight.  You are right. I am fearful of dying. I am in the high risk group.  When ever I get any sort of respitory illness.  I end up at the hospital with difficulty breathing.  It’s been this way since I was s kid.  I grew out of it in my twenties. But now that those years have passed. It’s pretty much back.  I personally would like to skip it entirely and more importantly. If I do end up getting it.  Not having to wait for icu or hospital bed would be a good thing. Even if eveyine gets it. It would be great if not all people got it at once.   

[/size]
[/size][size=78%] If you were tested positive for Covid and made it through. I am very happy for you.   You have little to fear at this point.  I am still on the business end of this.  So I worry.  And I feel I am not the only one that has a healthy respect for avoid this for fear of dying [/size]
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Nowhearthis on July 29, 2020, 09:58:00 AM
Soooo, basically what I glean from this thread is that it sounds like no hockey this season...at least for us non-tier folks


Well, for now it's literally month to month push outs based on case counts and state mandates.  Nothing is solid or will be, even the in person schooling.  Unfortunately unmasked contact sports will continue to be a last priority.  I would hold onto your money.  Getting any back is a huge drill.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Rats13 on July 29, 2020, 10:28:18 AM
Soooo, basically what I glean from this thread is that it sounds like no hockey this season...at least for us non-tier folks


Well, for now it's literally month to month push outs based on case counts and state mandates.  Nothing is solid or will be, even the in person schooling.  Unfortunately unmasked contact sports will continue to be a last priority.  I would hold onto your money.  Getting any back is a huge drill.


Nobody is allow to take season dues if I am not mistaken.  Most things should be day by day $
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: UhhhhDuhhhh on July 29, 2020, 11:12:59 AM
Thank you for setting me straight.  You are right. I am fearful of dying. I am in the high risk group.  When ever I get any sort of respitory illness.  I end up at the hospital with difficulty breathing.  It’s been this way since I was s kid.  I grew out of it in my twenties. But now that those years have passed. It’s pretty much back.  I personally would like to skip it entirely and more importantly. If I do end up getting it.  Not having to wait for icu or hospital bed would be a good thing. Even if eveyine gets it. It would be great if not all people got it at once.   

Not sure of sarcasm or condescending tone here but if you are in the high risk group, I would definitely stay home and make sure your household members do too.  Have someone else do your shopping and let it sit for 2-3 days in a garage fridge etc. and or have one of your healthy family members disinfect it.  Nobody on this website or pretty much anywhere disagrees with slowing the virus with masks, social distancing and hand washing, but the world can't stay shutdown forever to save lives because it ends up costing more lives, educations, other medical problems etc.

As far as waiting for a hospital or icu bed, do your own research, don't listen to CNN, MSNBC, FOX News, OAN, etc.  They all have a political motivation as do politicians obviously and sadly many health experts and organizations.  You can get real case and hospital data here:  Click Explore and then download and sort the table by county and then date.

https://data.ca.gov/dataset/covid-19-hospital-data (https://data.ca.gov/dataset/covid-19-hospital-data)

https://data.ca.gov/dataset/covid-19-cases (https://data.ca.gov/dataset/covid-19-cases)

Here is just a small sampling that shows that roughly 10%-15% of hospital beds are taken by Covid patients and generally half of the ICU beds are still available depending on the county:  You see in LA there are about 2600 people with covid in the hospital and there are 18,700 hospital beds available and about 675 in ICU with 900+ ICU beds still available. Also not sure if these numbers include surge plans.

 
countytodays datehospitalized covid confirmed patientshospitalized suspected covid patientshospitalized covid patientsall hospital bedsicu covid confirmed patientsicu suspected covid patientsicu available beds
Los Angeles
7/24/2020
2033
595
2628
17054
622
81
846
Los Angeles
7/25/2020
2017
535
2552
18946
582
89
930
Los Angeles
7/26/2020
2051
570
2621
19906
596
81
912
Los Angeles
7/27/2020
2045
554
2599
18716
576
93
901
Orange
7/24/2020
685
91
776
5584
203
17
383
Orange
7/25/2020
687
67
754
6095
201
9
387
Orange
7/26/2020
661
46
707
6078
204
9
377
Orange
7/27/2020
640
45
685
6182
203
9
383
Riverside
7/24/2020
489
109
598
3378
165
22
59
Riverside
7/25/2020
483
127
610
3469
154
22
77
Riverside
7/26/2020
488
142
630
3413
146
21
87
Riverside
7/27/2020
487
122
609
3463
143
24
93
San Bernardino
7/24/2020
607
108
715
3889
177
15
159
San Bernardino
7/25/2020
638
100
738
4509
195
10
131
San Bernardino
7/26/2020
609
104
713
4522
195
8
136
San Bernardino
7/27/2020
595
93
688
4516
179
14
210
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: area51 on July 29, 2020, 11:18:24 AM
okay.. this is getting like religion.   I am trying to be as clear as possible.  Its NOT THE KIDS that will be impacted.    KIDS become carriers and spread it to people unknowingly.  I am worried about who gets indirectly infected.   Its called transmission by a carrier.  The Kid is the carrier, the the one who most likely will die.    This is exactly what CDC and state is worried about.
you need to get updated facts, studies find that kids do not transmit the virus. Infected kids are not passing the virus on to other family members. That's why the CDC is recommending that the schools open.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: notTHATdad on July 29, 2020, 01:31:14 PM
You should read your own advice. Whatever you are reading is lying to you.

There have been no peer-reviewed studies on this at all. Just some observations with no control over any variables. And the work that has been done has shown that the seeming lack of transmission is really only for kids 9 and under.  Teenagers spread it at about the same rate as anyone else as far as anyone can tell. And since this is a BANTAM board...


https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/what-do-we-know-about-children-and-coronavirus-transmission/ (https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/what-do-we-know-about-children-and-coronavirus-transmission/)
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: fistocuffs on July 29, 2020, 03:49:14 PM
Udh, only my usual hint of sarcasm.  But to be serious, i really get messed up with respiratory illness.  Its no picnic going through it.  I can tell you that you really struggle to breath.  You have to only think about taking your next breath and you really have to focus on that - at the expense of everything else.  For about 3 days.  Because of this,  I have made every effort to avoid crowds, events, gatherings.    Have been to ralphs and CVS. - you go early in am, or late - quick in - quick out, social distancing and masks, but still you worry. 

As long as the state says no to youth sports - indoor contact youth sports - there is not much organizations can do.   I do understand the desire to keep moving and living life - you cannot live life in a box - and call it a life to some degree.   


Sweden may have the last laugh.  Their strategy was to go for herd immunity.   NY State has done admirable as well with a lockdown mentality.  They are twice the size of Sweden.       Sweden Cases: 80k, deaths:5.7k.    NY Cases: 418k, 32k deaths.    I feel it could have been far worse in NY had they taken Sweden approach,   We will know at the end of this year.  This is all guess work non the less. 
In any case, its just a crap sandwich -  I remember the worst thing when I was a kid was being snowed out of school for 2 weeks.   
My parents had it different, they lived through all sorts of killers, Scarlet Fever, measles, mumps, polio, small pox.   A veritable land mine of things what could maim or kill kids.  This guy seems to not rough kids up too much all things given.  It roughs up people based upon genetics and pre-dispositions.

What I do hope happens is that when the green light is given by the state, its a solid green light.  So we can get going and not have to worry about putting the breaks on
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: UhhhhDuhhhh on July 29, 2020, 06:30:53 PM
Well, wishing you the best and good luck getting through it.  My point with Sweden and New York is that the saturation through the population is when the virus will slow.  New York and the surrounding areas have one of the worst cases and deaths per capita in the civilized world mainly because they were first to get it in US and the Governors were putting covid patients back in nursing homes.  NY did a horrible job IMO and the results now show they are mostly through it.  Many peoples T-cells from previous infections reject the virus from the start and the serological tests done in NYC are around 25%.  Other states are now catching up and then will slow.  Sweden has done a much better job and the numbers speak for themselves.  Only time will tell and it's best to remain cautious but living in fear has it's own negative health consequences.

State/Territory
Case Rate per 100,000
Death Rate per 100,000
New York City*
 
2689
280
New York*
 
1683
79
California
 
1179
22
Sweden
 
777
56
*Counts for New York City and New York state are shown separately
 
 
Data from https://www.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases (https://www.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases)
And https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality (https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality)


https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/covid-19-achieving-herd-immunity-may-occur-sooner-than-previously-thought#Further-refinements (https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/covid-19-achieving-herd-immunity-may-occur-sooner-than-previously-thought#Further-refinements)


https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/07/15/new-data-on-t-cells-and-the-coronavirus (https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/07/15/new-data-on-t-cells-and-the-coronavirus)


Hopefully there is a steady decline from here in CA and we don't get a second wave so we can get our kids back to the things they love (and us too).
 
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: fistocuffs on July 30, 2020, 11:52:42 AM
I also tend to believe in the allusion of control and how statistics will reinforce things that are correlate but do not reflect reality.  Also I sometimes subscribe to Goodhart's law (an adage named after British economist Charles Goodhart, later phrased by anthropologist Marilyn Strathern as When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure).


Swedens the closest thing we have to a control group where you have an informal lock down(lais·sez-faire), vs a concerted effort to forced lock down (EU, and Asia - a.k.a Fascist approach), vs a Lockdownish approach (kinda like "ehh - maybe for a few weeks" US approach).

I have been looking at everything six ways from Sunday, and here is what it seems.     

The sooner you locked your country down and better off your country became, once you got it under control meaning you can measure hotspots and stamp them out with people and tools and isolation).  These seem to be the countries that faired pretty good.

I am sure people who had it and were fine are not counted

If you waited a "smidgen too long" or dragged your feet to shut shit down - you were in for a wild ride.  Italy,Spain, France, etc (>10% death rate)

If you were a country that waited too long - And did not take lockdown seriously - you artificially are now dragging it out and causing grief for everyone (Which I believe is us).  USA is somewhat unique in that you could almost view states as countries - since it was pretty much left to the states to manage on their own. 

NY got hit first and hardest.. kinda like close to 10%
Some early hit states between 5% and 10%
The latest hit seems to be below 5%

The numbers are everywhere in the end.       

So i feel if you managed to catch the horse As it was leaving the barn, you had 1/2 a chance of putting that pesky horse back in the barn and locking it up.   
But if you hesitated for any amount of time, you are now simply playing the virus's tune.  (He who hesitates is lost - in a way).

After looking at all the curves,  It is my belief that in the course of the next 60 days things will settle down (partially because enough people are simply staying put and going into self isolation, companies are keeping employees home for the most part) and we will most likely have some sort of season and put all our collective community efforts into making that happen.   I don't think CIF is too far off the mark.

Bottom line, i feel there will be hockey in Nov/Dec.  We just all have to be ready and not worry to much about what it looks like, because it will most likely be a mad scramble


Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: trans4761 on July 31, 2020, 07:51:54 AM
Really fuckn tired of all you guys who think they are the authority on the virus.  Are we gonna have a season, blah....blah blah. I had the virus, really sucks, youth sports takes a back seat.  So stop spazzing your little Prius driving mind and chill the fuck out.  If it happens, it happens.  If in your daily life your biggest problem is youth hockey, life is good.

Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Rats13 on July 31, 2020, 05:40:50 PM
Really fuckn tired of all you guys who think they are the authority on the virus.  Are we gonna have a season, blah....blah blah. I had the virus, really sucks, youth sports takes a back seat.  So stop spazzing your little Prius driving mind and chill the fuck out.  If it happens, it happens.  If in your daily life your biggest problem is youth hockey, life is good.


Tough morning???!!!   :o   I mean what did you think you were going to get when you clicked here????!!!! ;D
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: trans4761 on August 01, 2020, 08:36:08 PM
Sucks when all you Dr Oz's out there dont say shit.
Pussies !!
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: JackBender on August 03, 2020, 02:40:29 PM
Way to kill the thread, Trans. Geez.


Also, can someone please give Rats13 a Face Wash? He can't have 0.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: ReedThwaites on August 03, 2020, 08:58:51 PM
I know this may seem off topic but I haven’t had any luck finding any info anywhere online. We’re planning a move from Alaska to SOCal. I have two boys that absolutely love playing comp hockey and I’m curious how things work in the south west area. If somebody could fill me in on their daily schedule with kids in hockey and work schedules. We have it pretty good up here, home in 10 min, to the rink in 20 min. I’m concerned I won’t be able to do the commute for practice and games. Thank you.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: 805hockey on August 04, 2020, 08:27:55 AM
Somewhat depends on the rink where you'll be playing and where you're going to be living.  I'd suggest, that if you don't want to commute, to live near the rink.  At our rink we are there 4 days a week.  If we had a long commute it really suck.  For games, you will be travelling...no way around that.  On any given sunday, at least in normal times, you could go as far north as Bakersfield, as far south as San Diego, and as far east as Riverside.  (That's for A/B hockey...not sure about tier hockey) Expect to commute to play hockey in socal.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Tara Rezad on August 04, 2020, 11:42:25 AM
Really fuckn tired of all you guys who think they are the authority on the virus.  Are we gonna have a season, blah....blah blah. I had the virus, really sucks, youth sports takes a back seat.  So stop spazzing your little Prius driving mind and chill the fuck out.  If it happens, it happens.  If in your daily life your biggest problem is youth hockey, life is good.


I've been lurking here for a good amount of time, but never felt compelled to post until reading this. So I signed up just to write this.


I am a hockey mom with 3 sons who have played at every level from inhouse to D1. We've experienced every phase of the highs, lows, hopes and dreams, harsh realities, sacrifices and shuffled priorities that come with the youth hockey life. We've gone from the thrill of that first mite goal to a dizzying one-goal loss for the D1 national championship.


We've also made all of the expectations adjustments, from "our kid is the next Connor McD!" to our kid will have fun in beer league while working 9-to-5 to support his family.


And after all of that, I can tell you this...


THE POST ABOVE IS 100% CORRECT.


Anyone fixated on squeezing juice out of the upcoming season at any cost by forcing and finagling ice time under current conditions has some seriously f***-up priorities and needs to re-evaluate.


I tell you this with perspective as well, as our dear friend's son, age 16, DIED 2 weeks ago in Florida. Not just died... talking horrific, tortuous suffering. Basically drowning alive. At age 16. Because he had to be be in the gym to train with his buddies (albeit for football, not hockey).


So take this perspective for what it's worth. If you could witness the living hell of Covid's reality up close and for real, through the hearts of the parents who lost their athlete teenage son, I'd wager you'd stop all of your circuitous planning and plotting to get ice time under these conditions--even if your kid truly is the next Connor McD.


Anyway, I won't be posting again to respond to ignorant claims of "if you're scared stay home" and "sheep" and "it's risky just crossing the street." Every time I read them, I know with 100% certainty that the person speaking these words is either truly, dangerously, blissfully ignorant, or just incredibly selfish, putting a game above their child's safety.


Good luck to all.


Tara
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Hockey sophist on August 04, 2020, 03:05:25 PM
Thank you for the grounded (in experience) perspective.   You bring a voice of sanity to the issue.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Al48 on August 04, 2020, 03:27:55 PM
Really fuckn tired of all you guys who think they are the authority on the virus.  Are we gonna have a season, blah....blah blah. I had the virus, really sucks, youth sports takes a back seat.  So stop spazzing your little Prius driving mind and chill the fuck out.  If it happens, it happens.  If in your daily life your biggest problem is youth hockey, life is good.


I've been lurking here for a good amount of time, but never felt compelled to post until reading this. So I signed up just to write this.


I am a hockey mom with 3 sons who have played at every level from inhouse to D1. We've experienced every phase of the highs, lows, hopes and dreams, harsh realities, sacrifices and shuffled priorities that come with the youth hockey life. We've gone from the thrill of that first mite goal to a dizzying one-goal loss for the D1 national championship.


We've also made all of the expectations adjustments, from "our kid is the next Connor McD!" to our kid will have fun in beer league while working 9-to-5 to support his family.


And after all of that, I can tell you this...


THE POST ABOVE IS 100% CORRECT.


Anyone fixated on squeezing juice out of the upcoming season at any cost by forcing and finagling ice time under current conditions has some seriously f***-up priorities and needs to re-evaluate.


I tell you this with perspective as well, as our dear friend's son, age 16, DIED 2 weeks ago in Florida. Not just died... talking horrific, tortuous suffering. Basically drowning alive. At age 16. Because he had to be be in the gym to train with his buddies (albeit for football, not hockey).


So take this perspective for what it's worth. If you could witness the living hell of Covid's reality up close and for real, through the hearts of the parents who lost their athlete teenage son, I'd wager you'd stop all of your circuitous planning and plotting to get ice time under these conditions--even if your kid truly is the next Connor McD.


Anyway, I won't be posting again to respond to ignorant claims of "if you're scared stay home" and "sheep" and "it's risky just crossing the street." Every time I read them, I know with 100% certainty that the person speaking these words is either truly, dangerously, blissfully ignorant, or just incredibly selfish, putting a game above their child's safety.


Good luck to all.


Tara


How terrible!?!  I tried to search for a story regarding a 16 year old boy dying in Florida, but there are no reports of a 16 year old boy dying there.  Can you point us to a gofundme or something for his family?
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: alfirst on August 04, 2020, 03:53:37 PM
This is basically a post about hockey issues for Bantams.
And yes, virus has effect on that - hence we have a lot of discussions on that.
But I still wonder- why people whose priorities are not hockey (God forbid) still posting here and even take time to read it write.  That is really a puzzle to me.


And yes, seeing tons of kids and parents on the ice I can probably assume that their life is still good.
Not everyone is sick or losing friends (and for unrelated reasons either). Maybe this is not the place for personal stories. Just maybe.


There are kids shot now in big cities almost every day -
so why we then not start talking about that?


People die and get born everyday. It is sad and joy every day


So far have not seen that it stopped people to move forward.


And I know that a lot of guys think the same way just won't post it like that. And I am ready for face washes from moms and dads - I do not give a damn, I am not for the polls.


Back to Bantams - rumor is CAHA will have a meeting this weekend  - to allow AA form tournament rosters...



Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: KickSave on August 04, 2020, 04:51:41 PM
Yeah - we did nothing after Sandyhook, why would take care of our kids now? Thoughts and prayers, everyone.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: alfirst on August 04, 2020, 05:06:29 PM
If we are for stories - I'll tell you a story on Sandyhook - it happened when we were in-house. We were supposed to have a pizza party that day after the practice.
After watching TV for an hour we personally did not feel like partying that day - our kids were same age.
So I posted on TeamSnap (or whatever we had back then) - due to events today maybe we postpone a party.
During practice parents kinda avoided talking to me (except one) and I heard hush-hush "we are going to a party" whispers.
We were not born in this country and somehow felt "related" and truly thought it's not a day for joy. We told our son that, and he was OK.


After that I asked several American buddies - why so? (in my country there would be national mourning, no funny entertainment on TV etc.) .
Basically the answer was - it's unrelated, too far away. we do not feel "connected" to that.


I figured - nobody gives a damn until it's in your yard (or in friend's yard - like that first post mom's). People are living in subjective idealism - if I do not see it /feel it personally -  it does not exist.


Shooting, looting, piling up corpses (NY couple month ago) damn crap happen all over the country - yet, someone got Covid (trans) and only then he says "shut up",
someone friend got killed - only then "yeah, straight your priorities".


You know what - you guys shut the f. up. As you care only and when it hurts you personally.


Life goes on for others, you know...
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: UhhhhDuhhhh on August 04, 2020, 09:39:07 PM

I tell you this with perspective as well, as our dear friend's son, age 16, DIED 2 weeks ago in Florida. Not just died... talking horrific, tortuous suffering. Basically drowning alive. At age 16. Because he had to be be in the gym to train with his buddies (albeit for football, not hockey).


As of 8/3/20 in Florida there have been 7 juvenile deaths according to CNN. https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/03/us/florida-coronavirus-teens-die/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/03/us/florida-coronavirus-teens-die/index.html)

A 9 year old girl with no underlying conditions https://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/family-mourns-9-year-old-putnam-county-girl-who-died-of-covid-19-pushes-back-on-schools-reopening/77-f1d56c03-370e-4e1a-ba13-daeaa1dc15f6 (https://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/family-mourns-9-year-old-putnam-county-girl-who-died-of-covid-19-pushes-back-on-schools-reopening/77-f1d56c03-370e-4e1a-ba13-daeaa1dc15f6)

An 11 year old with serious underlying conditions https://wsvn.com/news/local/11-year-old-miami-dade-boy-dies-from-covid-19-amid-rise-in-new-cases/ (https://wsvn.com/news/local/11-year-old-miami-dade-boy-dies-from-covid-19-amid-rise-in-new-cases/)

An 11 year old girl with a genetic condition called Trisomy 13, making her even more susceptible to infectious diseases and severe illness. https://wsvn.com/news/local/11-year-old-broward-girl-with-underlying-conditions-dies-from-covid-19/ (https://wsvn.com/news/local/11-year-old-broward-girl-with-underlying-conditions-dies-from-covid-19/)

A 16 year old girl who battled a host of health issues, including cancer and a rare autoimmune disorder June 23. https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/07/07/florida-carsyn-davis-coronavirus/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/07/07/florida-carsyn-davis-coronavirus/)

A 16 year old girl who had pre-existing conditions including spina bifida and hydrocephalus July 29 https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article244689117.html (https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article244689117.html)

A 17 year old with unknown conditions and still under investigation prior to June 22  https://www.wfla.com/news/pasco-county/medical-examiner-investigating-death-of-pasco-teen-who-had-covid-19/ (https://www.wfla.com/news/pasco-county/medical-examiner-investigating-death-of-pasco-teen-who-had-covid-19/)

And a 17 year old boy who died on Sunday 8/2/20 at Johns Hopkins All Children’s Hospital in St. Petersburg and is still under investigation. https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article244689117.html (https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article244689117.html)

I didn't find any report of a 16 year old boy. I offer my deepest condolences if true but regardless, the numbers speak for themselves.  In 2017-18 there were 172 under 18 flu related deaths in Florida alone and not a word about it by the media.  https://www.newsweek.com/flu-season-death-child-1172976 (https://www.newsweek.com/flu-season-death-child-1172976)

You can listen to the media/news and be sad and depressed every day.  I can find a story from somewhere in the world that will ruin my day whenever I want - today Beruit.  Not saying there aren’t issues worth fighting for, but there are places in the world where inhumane and horrible things happen everyday - China, Africa, Middle East, South America, and the USA - and if you watch enough news, you will be depressed and likely fooled.  Information and FALSE information overload are killing our societies happiness.  In Florida, 6 infants die for every 1000 births.  Based on an average of 220,000 births a year in Florida that's 1320 infant/newborn deaths a year.  Stop the birthing process!!!

I don’t play the lottery because I know the odds are ridiculous.  If my “healthy kid” who’s been in lockdown for 5 months wants to drive to the hockey rink - which has taken every precaution and been allowed to open - and skate with other healthy kids and then come home to his healthy parents, I know odds are I’m more likely to win the lottery than die from Covid.  Not saying everyone should do it, and as said before, if you’re at risk or have family members at risk, stay home, stay safe, but we can weigh the risks ourselves and determine what is best for our family.  Most, if not all, have been doing their part to wear masks, socially distance, flatten the curve, etc. 

A lock down has way more negative health consequences to children mentally, physically and emotionally than Covid - period.  Who's selfish now?
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: fistocuffs on August 05, 2020, 10:59:34 AM
Wow.  that was alot of research to drop hints another person is wrong.  What a horrible way to prove some point
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Ice-o-Matic on August 05, 2020, 11:31:50 AM
I had looked up the Florida numbers too, just to check on any 16-year-old deaths of a boy.  Maybe that poster can clarify if she/he did mean the boy they know died from covid?

I read one magazine article (I think in the Atlantic) that basically said some people are behaving as if having fun in and of itself can spread the virus.  That’s why so many articles are illustrated with photographs of the beaches, when it’s actually probably a good thing to get out to the beach.  This is in fact a time when we should all be thinking about building health, not diminishing it with further lockdowns and keeping our kids in their bedrooms.

Multiple studies by extremely reputable doctors are showing that one of the most significant covid co-morbidities is obesity.  We’re still learning a lot, but it’s worth noting that Vietnam, a high-population country with (last I heard) a single covid death, is also one of the most slender countries on the planet.  Japan is a high-population country with a huge elderly cohort.  They’ve done some soft and somewhat reluctant lockdowns, and they haven’t done a lot of testing.  They too are one of the least obese countries on the planet.  (I should mention that they’ve been diligent about wearing masks.). They’ve had some deaths, yes, but nothing even remotely approaching what European countries and the U.S. have seen.

There are other countries (Hong Kong & New Zealand) that were rigorous in the methods that they used to prevent spread of the virus.  These are countries with small, highly motivated populations, i.e. not the United States.

Australia did everything right according to the experts: hard lockdown, testing, tracing.  They’re experiencing a surge in some areas, and those areas are now on hard lockdown again.

And, of course, Sweden…

The fact is, we don’t know what is the best way to respond to this virus.  And we are in danger of destroying the nation with these lockdowns.  You cannot throw this many people on unemployment, print up money nonstop, and think that your country will survive: it won’t. The future belongs to our kids.  Let’s give them a path forward.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: UhhhhDuhhhh on August 05, 2020, 11:38:22 AM

Not just died... talking horrific, tortuous suffering. Basically drowning alive. At age 16.


Wow.  that was alot of research to drop hints another person is wrong.  What a horrible way to prove some point

 No, just sick and tired of fearmongering and scare tactics with no basis in truth - but thanks for admitting that the point was proven.
 
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: fistocuffs on August 05, 2020, 01:39:29 PM
Fear mongering.  doubt it.   You just want to play hockey, any you simply bully and yell at people to do not agree.  UhhhDuhhh.  I completely understand where the state and local heath officials are saying things you do not like, you simply label it fake.  And i do understand that when a whole group of people are trying to follow the rules as other countries have (and are now enjoying a pretty good back to normal for the moment), you just want to cut to the end.  And certainly, to not want to participate as you are immune from this.  Your need to play hockey trumps everyone else who does not share your version of reality:


The State must be fear mongering - go yell at them - your drum beating is getting old.  We get it.  You want to play and play you will.   For government documents the below is refreshingly simple to read and follow - Hockey (an indoor close contact team youth sport) is not in the cards yet.    This is not fear talking, this is fact - literally - a factual document from the state.   







Consistent with the July 20, 2020 announcement of the California Interscholastic Federation, this document provides guidance for all youth sports programs—including school-based, club, and recreational programs—to support a safe environment for players, coaches and trainers, families, spectators, event/program/facility managers, workers, and volunteers. For further guidance related to school settings, please see this updated guidance for schools and school-based programs.


NOTE: The risk of transmitting the COVID-19 virus depends on several factors germane to sports, including:


•Number of people in a location
•Type of location (indoor versus outdoor)
•Distance between people
•Length of time at a location
•Physical contact between people
•Touching of shared objects
•Use of face coverings
•Mixing of people from locations with different levels of community transmission


As general guidance, smaller groups are safer than larger; outdoor locations are safer than indoor; sports that can ensure distance of six feet or more are safer than close contact; and shorter duration is safer than longer.


Leagues, coaches, parents, and athletes need to consider all these factors as they plan to return to play.


Outdoor and indoor sporting events, assemblies, and other activities that require close contact or that would promote congregating are not permitted at this time. For example, tournaments, events, or competitions, regardless of whether teams are from the same school or from different schools, counties, or states are not permitted at this time.


•Youth sports and physical education are permitted only when the following can be maintained:


(1) physical distancing of at least six feet; and
(2) a stable cohort, such as a class, that limits the risks of transmission (see CDC Guidance on Schools and Cohorting).


Activities should take place outside to the maximum extent practicable.


•For sports that cannot be conducted with sufficient distancing or cohorting, only physical conditioning and training is permitted and ONLY where physical distancing can be maintained.  Conditioning and training should focus on individual skill-building (e.g., running drills and body weight resistance training) and should take place outside, where practicable. Indoor physical conditioning and training is allowed only in counties where gyms and fitness centers are allowed to operate indoors.


•Avoid equipment sharing, and if unavoidable, clean and disinfect shared equipment between use by different people to reduce the risk of COVID-19 spread.


•Consistent with guidance for gyms and fitness facilities, cloth face coverings must be worn during indoor physical conditioning and training or physical education classes (except when showering).


Activities that require heavy exertion should be conducted outside in a physically distanced manner without face coverings. Activities conducted inside should be those that do not require heavy exertion and can be done with a face covering. Players should take a break from exercise if any difficulty in breathing is noted and should change their mask or face covering if it becomes wet and sticks to the player’s face and obstructs breathing. Masks that restrict airflow under heavy exertion (such as N-95 masks) are not advised for exercise.


•Youth sports programs and schools should provide information to parents or guardians regarding this and related guidance, along with the safety measures that will be in place in these settings with which parents or guardians must comply.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: UhhhhDuhhhh on August 05, 2020, 02:32:00 PM
At what point did I say one thing about wanting to skip to the end?  At what point did I say anything about wanting to play hockey other than the fact that rinks are now open and kids are playing hockey - as we speak.  I could care less if there is a hockey season.  As a matter of fact, I would prefer there not be a season as it seems like a waste of money considering how it will likely be set up. I was making the point as many others here have that kids are playing hockey NOW and there are people condemning that.  It's the people that make stuff up and say ridiculous things that actually are fake - like we are out of hospital room and young people will die or spread it like wildfire.  Nobody here has said not to follow the guidelines.  The problem is there are people who obviously have their own agenda - like wanting stricter rules because of their own personal health problems and then assume that if everyone isn't at home 24/7 they are trying to kill them.  People are not trying to kill people, they are just following the guidelines and rules and you think those rules are still too lax because you keep talking about other countries that have locked down harder.  As I said before, good luck getting through this time in your life, but I won't be fearful to appease anyone.   
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: fistocuffs on August 05, 2020, 03:11:45 PM
Never ask you for approval of my opinions or your appeasement.  This is a chat board.  People chat.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: alfirst on August 05, 2020, 04:01:40 PM
People do chat - the chat board is called "Bantam AA" - I think it would be great to return discussing that rather than anything else - as I can tell you with 100% proof - nobody will prove anything to anybody here.  (And yes, I am to blame to bring up some unrelated stuff as well...)


I'll make an attempt again - rumor is CAHA will be meeting this weekend to allow tier teams to form teams (including AA). That would be a step forward to allow CA teams to participate in USA Hockey sanctioned events/tournaments (who just announced that "hockey is back")


Kids can't practice forever - they want to play games sooner rather than later. And I guess, some clubs are willing to make a "soft lock" on some players.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: ohnonotagain on August 05, 2020, 04:45:20 PM

I'll make an attempt again - rumor is CAHA will be meeting this weekend to allow tier teams to form teams (including AA).



Tier I teams have already formed up.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: fistocuffs on August 06, 2020, 10:57:41 AM
People do chat - the chat board is called "Bantam AA" - I think it would be great to return discussing that rather than anything else - as I can tell you with 100% proof - nobody will prove anything to anybody here.  (And yes, I am to blame to bring up some unrelated stuff as well...)


I'll make an attempt again - rumor is CAHA will be meeting this weekend to allow tier teams to form teams (including AA). That would be a step forward to allow CA teams to participate in USA Hockey sanctioned events/tournaments (who just announced that "hockey is back")


Kids can't practice forever - they want to play games sooner rather than later. And I guess, some clubs are willing to make a "soft lock" on some players.


good points -  The ability to play games and practice as a team lies with the State - They currently say no.    Kids cannot practice forever as well.  I do not see the point in creating teams where said teams cannot practice in any real sense or play games in any real sense.   There seems to be a push to play out of state.
I get lost in how these teams will actually practice in CA to prepare.     At the moment there is no such thing as a CA Team.  I saw that USA PSA.  It makes no sense to me - other than a plea for people to register and pay their $$.  I hear they ran out of money.   Something about generating a boat load of $$$ each year, and never really answering where all that cash goes.   I can tell you one thing for sure, It did not go into reserve(s) to save for a rainy day.  Seems they pissed it all away on boondoggles and vacations?


 I would like to know the upside of creating teams now?
I do not see it.  Coaches can buy ice, and do day camps where social distancing can be managed.  Thats about all I can see as viable.   


What would be sad to see, is a few "teams" go to an out of state tourney - catch a cold - come back, then going to day camps and spreading the cold around to what once was a safe group of cohorts. 


What is the upside of creating teams now? When games in CA are still 90+ days out. (this is meant for discussion)











Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: notTHATdad on August 06, 2020, 11:34:46 AM
There is probably less upside for AA or A making teams yet. It's probably too early.


For AAA there are a few reasons. The first is that membership for those camps that are going on, are going to be based on teams. So you can get a start with at least a subset of your players training together. I expect all CA tournaments and games to be cancelled for a while, and no CA teams to go to the first optional T1EHL tournament in October, but going in November is a possibility. Might as well practice in a safe, controlled environment. One of my kids has done it. It has been fine. My impression is that it's a lot safer than doing a lot of other things that are allowed right now, like going out to an outdoor restaurant. And if someone DOES get sick, one of the main points of the small-group camps is that you can immediately contact trace. And yes, everyone thinking of having their kid attend should consider the risks of the home environment.


The camps I've seen are being done in complete cooperation with the counties. Every process approved. I also believe that county inspectors have been overseeing.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: alfirst on August 06, 2020, 03:10:54 PM
So in this regard - what's the difference between AA and AAA on forming teams - same "camps" can be done with selected players.
Especially as we all know that AAA are basically your 3 teams (with some exceptions). Then players instead of going to different coaches (which happens now) can concentrate on a particular coach once selected and camps can slowly transform into team practices more and more.
Plus - more out of state tournaments open up for AA teams as well.


And yes, I understand the concern - but games will happen either way (in or out of state); coaches will be taking kids "for a ride". So sooner CA allows for games to happen - sooner the teams can be "in-house". 



Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: SkatingDad on August 06, 2020, 03:43:57 PM
Out of state play is where this is all heading...
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: fistocuffs on August 06, 2020, 04:18:17 PM
I like the start your own league to get things rolling concept.   I dont think SCAHA and CAHA are going to run a game counter to State directives and will continue to say no to tryouts, teams, and scrimmages.
Some of it may be the implication(s) of creating and approving "team" rosters - when the state has currently shut  team sports down.



The USA hockey PSA seems to want teams and games to happen. 
Maybe its time to petition USA hockey directly and form a new Affiliate that can get games going in state.


Its quite a pickle to be in.  here is a story from both sides of coin. 


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/saskatchewan-aaa-hockey-teams-secretly-play-in-manitoba-1.5666146



Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: 805hockey on August 06, 2020, 05:05:06 PM
Could a coach or a rink be able to form a "tournament team"?  Meaning, not necessarily a team affiliated with a club, but just a group of bantams who would like to play in a tournament in AZ or UT for instance.  I read earlier in this thread that there was disagreement whether this was possible or not...just curious.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: notTHATdad on August 06, 2020, 05:23:24 PM

There is a WORLD of difference (in my mind) between doing this with 7-12 year olds and 16+ year olds trying to get drafted, or vie for Jr or college spots. Given this is the bantam board? I think Bantams could probably wait a while too. And the sneakiness with which they did this is the first hint that they were crossing a line.



I like the start your own league to get things rolling concept.   I dont think SCAHA and CAHA are going to run a game counter to State directives and will continue to say no to tryouts, teams, and scrimmages.
Some of it may be the implication(s) of creating and approving "team" rosters - when the state has currently shut  team sports down.



The USA hockey PSA seems to want teams and games to happen. 
Maybe its time to petition USA hockey directly and form a new Affiliate that can get games going in state.


Its quite a pickle to be in.  here is a story from both sides of coin. 


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/saskatchewan-aaa-hockey-teams-secretly-play-in-manitoba-1.5666146 (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/saskatchewan-aaa-hockey-teams-secretly-play-in-manitoba-1.5666146)
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: alfirst on August 06, 2020, 07:58:58 PM
If it is non-USA-hockey sanctioned event,
any coach can bring tournament team, order non-club jerseys and buy insurance.
If CAHA votes to allow AA team to form - then USA hockey events would be open to CA teams as well.
Obviously deeper into the season most of tournaments
will be under USA hockey umbrella

Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: fistocuffs on August 06, 2020, 10:16:57 PM
I think USA hockey is so focused on getting $$$ they will authorize rosters and tournaments with no regard to any states Covid policies. 


If u sneeze you get a sanction number.  It will be that easy.


Ca may not certify any rosters for California teams.  The true test is.  Will USA hockey certify rosters for ca teams?  Just to get $$$.  Can ca teams go to USA hockey National office.  And get approvals?


I heard Illinois is debating a pause.  Can anyone confirm?

Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Knuckle Puck on August 06, 2020, 10:29:25 PM
hockey mostly shut down in illinois
https://news.wttw.com/2020/07/29/gov-pritzker-releases-safety-guidelines-recreational-sports (https://news.wttw.com/2020/07/29/gov-pritzker-releases-safety-guidelines-recreational-sports)


Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: lcadad on August 07, 2020, 12:05:01 PM
There is a WORLD of difference (in my mind) between doing this with 7-12 year olds and 16+ year olds trying to get drafted, or vie for Jr or college spots. Given this is the bantam board? I think Bantams could probably wait a while too. And the sneakiness with which they did this is the first hint that they were crossing a line.


There are clearly a lot of different opinions on what is safe, or fair, or morally correct, as well as what makes sense from a medical and scientific point of view.  Since there is no consensus on this internationally, it's not surprising that there is a lack of consensus within the US or Canada on a state by state basis. 

I would not be surprised that government agencies take the most conservative approach they can justify.  Municipally owned and operated rinks are not likely to open in California this year in my opinion, because of liability concerns.  If they don't open a rink, nobody can later come back and try and sue the city claiming they got Covid at the rink. 

The same line of thinking likely permeates public policy. 

The reality is that states like California have already, and will continue to apply inconsistent policy. Certain jobs are "essential" while others are not.  Certain businesses are essential, while others are not.  It's ok to go down to a Target and buy some groceries that were delivered from depots by trucks, unloaded at warehouses, stocked by employees and cashiers, but it's not ok to go get a hair cut.  So a person in a warehouse must be at work, interacting with lots of other people who literally may be traveling across state lines,  but a barber is prohibited from making a living, even if they wear masks, clean and disinfect between customers, and maintain social distancing guidelines within their business.  Who is more likely to be spreading an infection? 

People can run through the busy streets of NY covered in sweat, but kids who are virtually at no risk from Covid (and appear not to easily catch or pass Covid on to others) are not allowed to play a hockey game in a rink when they are wearing equipment head to toe, and we now have months of thousands of skates that appear to show this is relatively safe.  I mean, c'mon it's hundreds of skates with thousands of participants at this point, and that's not even counting all the figure skating going on.

Meanwhile, take a look on the streets and consider this simple fact.  Public transportation/buses have never been closed.  You can see a public bus packed with people on many of LA's city streets as people use it to commute to --- wherever.  Is that safe, to take a bus ride with 50 strangers on a daily basis?  But of course those buses have to run because some percentage of those people depend on that transportation to get to work or... well we don't really know do we?  They never mandated that only essential personnel with essential activities should be using public transportation.  Such a restriction would likely trigger law suits, so they won't do that.

Nobody would dare close or restrict public transportation, but it's easy for the city or state government to close up a rink with no understanding of the efficacy or potential danger, because these rink owners aren't going to be able to fight the power of the government, even if this long period of shuttering literally forces the rink into bankruptcy and closure.

Meanwhile, the city of Los Angeles is currently dealing with the aftermath of a rented home, used for a large party of hundreds of people, which culminated with gunfire, multiple people shot, and at least one death.  Neighbors called the police to report this unruly party clogging the narrow streets, and blaring loud music into the neighborhood, but when the police arrived, they simply left, stating that there was nothing they could do about the party because it was a private function occurring in a "private residence". 

Of course they had to return later to deal with the murder and such....

With this level of inconsistency and selective restriction and enforcement, it's clear that people have no alternative than to look out for their own self interest, because if you are expecting the government to do anything other than what is simplest for them to do, then you are probably going to be highly disappointed. 

The vast majority of deaths from Covid-19 occurred in Nursing homes and long term care facilities.  Aside from publishing some information on a website, what has the state of california done to address the flashpoint of the disease?

Apparently, the systems that are used to collate what the actual numbers of infections, recoveries and deaths are, is completely broken at the moment, and state officials don't even know what the hell is actually going on, other than to revert to manual records, phone calls to and from hospitals and spreadsheets.   Ironically, the state assessment and county rating system is entirely dependent on numbers, so what is allowed in one county vs disallowed in another depends on data that the state can't accurately account for. 

Here's the restriction criteria:

Doing fewer than 150 tests per 100,000 residents daily (over a 7-day average)
More than 100 new cases per 100,000 residents over the past 14 days...
Or having more than 25 new cases per 100,000 residents and an 8% test positivity rate
10% or greater increase in COVID-19 hospitalized patients over the past 3 days
Fewer than 20% of ICU beds available
Fewer than 25% ventilators available

So clearly these are going to be problematic for large densely populated counties who may never be able to get off the county watch list.  It was basically criteria assembled that makes it simple for the state to restrict large portions of the state at anytime, where in some portions of a large county there may be literally no danger of Covid-19. 

I'm not angry at the state, nor do I think they overreacted or made major mistakes.  They did what they could given the information provided and recommendation of experts.  But I also will continue to independently research approaches and the safety and viability of activities for me and my family, and push back against restrictions that aren't clearly defined, consistent with the current understanding of their relative safety or lack thereof, or downright absurd, when the state has shown they don't have the will or capability of doing so in a reasonable and consistent manner.

 



Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known as Mite Dad on August 07, 2020, 02:12:23 PM
You all should introduce your kids to tennis this fall.  ;)
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: hckyparent on August 08, 2020, 07:11:31 AM
Hockey is happening back East. War at the Well had a good representation of 16+ teams in each division. CCM in New Hampshire is happening right now. Safety protocols are high and kids are mindful and being as safe as possible. Prep school hockey will also happen back East. All fingers are crossed that Beast League is starting soon. So, hockey will come back in the U.S. Just not everywhere right now....
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Hockey sophist on August 08, 2020, 08:46:48 AM

Washington Post this morning had a good but scary article on the impact of Covid-19 the heart's of athletes.   Research is accumulating on the subject and even those people with few or no symptoms are showing signs of damage to their hearts.  One study found up to 20% with heart damage.   


https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/08/08/athletes-coronavirus-heart-complications/?hpid=hp_hp-banner-main_virusathletes-830am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans (https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/08/08/athletes-coronavirus-heart-complications/?hpid=hp_hp-banner-main_virusathletes-830am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans)
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: OneandDone on August 08, 2020, 09:48:44 PM
Thought we were back on track talking about hockey.  In the interest of a balanced viewpoint, I’d like to point out a few things:


Everyone from what I’m seeing is taking this very seriously and we are all moving with caution.  I can certainly understand the more cautious approach.

First of all, your article is from The Washington Post (hardly biased LOL) states that “The studies have not focused on athletes” and “The study was composed of middle-aged people, and Emery said he would expect athletes as a group to fare better.” 

The main concern from your article is Myocarditis (https://www.myocarditisfoundation.org/about-myocarditis/) which is inflammation of the heart caused mostly by viruses (not just the coronavirus).  Go ahead and read through this if you are concerned about the chances of Myocarditis from coronavirus versus any other virus. https://boston.cbslocal.com/2020/08/06/cardiologist-dr-jennifer-haythe-boston-red-sox-eduardo-rodriguez-covid-19-myocarditis/ (https://boston.cbslocal.com/2020/08/06/cardiologist-dr-jennifer-haythe-boston-red-sox-eduardo-rodriguez-covid-19-myocarditis/)

or

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.113.001372 (https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.113.001372)


And your article states that Myocarditis (https://www.myocarditisfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/MyocarditisAndSuddenDeath.pdf) causes about 75 deaths per year in athletes from 13 to 25, according to the Myocarditis Foundation (https://www.myocarditisfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/MyocarditisAndSuddenDeath.pdf).  So this isn’t just coronavirus related, but for years, among other causes any virus related.  Any athlete can die and from more than just heart conditions https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circulationaha.108.804617 (https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circulationaha.108.804617)

It remains to be seen how the coronavirus will affect athletic hearts or contribute to deaths more or less than the many other virus and deaths per year, but guessing is ludicrous or as your article states “Research raises the possibility” or “It may not just be a cold. It may end your sports career” and “do not have enough data to make conclusions about how covid-19 might affect an athlete’s heart, and even recent studies of other populations require further validation.”  I love this one “When you look at covid in general, there seems to be a higher predilection for involvement with the heart than about any other virus we’ve seen.” And “Emery said cardiological experts worldwide have published five or six significant papers regarding covid-19 and athletes.”  Is it five or six?  References please - none?

Also when you look at articles referencing the same studies in your article that allow comments like this one https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/27/covid19-concerns-about-lasting-heart-damage/ (https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/27/covid19-concerns-about-lasting-heart-damage/)  Cardiologists make statements referring to the same studies like:

“Having 22 years in clinical cardiology I have a hard time believing that structural changes have occurred to the heart from COVID 19. I’d like to see additional information in the form of prior studies that prove there was no evidence of a structural heart abnormality before the images or specific modality had acquired them. In other words we don’t know if it was pre-existing before COVID or not. The term structural abnormality is misleading due to the fact that congestion from the course of the upper respiratory response could result in elevated pulmonary pressures which could induce small benign clinical abnormalities such as pulmonary hypertension, that could cause pulmonic insufficiency. Or long standing systemic hypertension that leads to aortic insufficiency. I don’t doubt or discredit clinical finding by patients that state they have experienced a significant drop in relative VO2 Max and or exertional dyspnea, with documented history of exercise. I just feel that recent findings in young patients with no prior diagnostic cardiac testing can not point to COVID as a clinically established cause.  Much more research, at the time of diagnosis of COVID and long term diagnostic cardiac testing is the only verifiable way to accurately know the long term outcome of such claims."

And

“Based on the study it is uncertain what % of subjects had pre-existing endocarditis, myocarditis, or pericarditis. From Table 1, Patient Characteristics, we can only tell that a sizable percentage of subjects had diabetes, hypertension and/or were smokers. The total number (n) who had at least one of these is not disclosed, which is a potential major failing of this study, especially since the control group is heart healthy individuals. In short, we have no idea if we are comparing apples to apples so there is no way to ascertain whether this study was properly designed and therefore whether the study’s conclusion are valid.”

Thanks for the “good but scary article on the impact of Covid-19 the heart's of athletes”.  What athletes? There were no athletes in their studies!! Athletes do die every year from Myocarditis, heat stroke, blunt force trauma etc...

Stay safe.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Hockey sophist on August 09, 2020, 10:23:48 AM
A bad and uninteresting article on Covid-19, athletes, and heart problem. 


https://www.healthline.com/health-news/covid-19-hurt-heart-of-elite-athlete-what-that-means-for-everyone-else#Effects-of-COVID-19-linger-for-weeks-or-longer (https://www.healthline.com/health-news/covid-19-hurt-heart-of-elite-athlete-what-that-means-for-everyone-else#Effects-of-COVID-19-linger-for-weeks-or-longer)
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: OneandDone on August 09, 2020, 01:38:02 PM
So again, this is a hockey bantam board and you keep referencing studies of athletes but there is no study of athletes, just one baseball player that has a swollen heart.  In my opinion, baseball is hardly an aerobic activity. So why don’t we look at the 43 NHL players that have tested positive for Covid and have returned to play?  https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2020/07/13/nhl-43-players-tested-positive-for-covid-19-since-phase-2-june-8/ I would assume that 25% of those are still having problems but we don’t see that and they are thoroughly evaluated!

I guess we can summarize that we won't be seeing MR outside the house, visiting friends, at any JN skates or back at JS if the school opens up at any point before a vaccine is developed and thoroughly tested (long term since there could easily be some unknown side effects since everything is being rushed?)

Your admitted disdain for this Country and your political bias is very obvious in everything you post.

One study in that article is the same as your first referenced article. The second study references 18 – 34 year olds. Not only are they not <18, they are not characterized as athletes. Not to mention that in the second study, the problems they state that linger in 18-34 year olds range from cough, fatigue, headaches, etc.  No mention of heart evaluations and troubles.  I see plenty of 18-34 year olds who are in horrible shape. 


Return to Usual State of Health

Among the 270 of 274 interviewees with available data on return to usual health,† 175 (65%) reported that they had returned to their usual state of health a median of 7 days (IQR = 5–12 days) from the date of testing (Table 1). Ninety-five (35%) reported that they had not returned to their usual state of health at the time of interview. The proportion who had not returned to their usual state of health differed across age groups: 26% of interviewees aged 18–34 years, 32% aged 35–49 years, and 47% aged ≥50 years reported not having returned to their usual state of health (p = 0.010) within 14–21 days after receiving a positive test result. Presence of chronic conditions also affected return to health rates; among 180 persons with no or one chronic medical condition, 39 with two chronic medical conditions, and 44 with three or more chronic medical conditions, 28%, 46%, and 57%, respectively, reported not having returned to their usual state of health (p = 0.003) within 14–21 days after having a positive test result. Among respondents aged 18–34 years with no chronic medical condition, 19% (nine of 48) reported not having returned to their usual state of health. Adjusting for other factors, age ≥50 versus 18–34 years (adjusted odds ratio [aOR] = 2.29; 95% confidence interval [CI] = 1.14–4.58) and reporting three or more versus no chronic medical conditions (aOR = 2.29; 95% CI = 1.07–4.90) were associated with not having returned to usual health (Table 2). Obesity (body mass index ≥30 kg per m2) (aOR 2.31; 95% CI = 1.21–4.42) and reporting a psychiatric condition§ (aOR 2.32; 95% CI = 1.17–4.58) also were associated with more than twofold odds of not returning to the patient’s usual health after adjusting for age, sex, and race/ethnicity.

Resolution of Symptoms and Duration

Among the 274 symptomatic outpatients, the median number of symptoms was seven of 17 listed in the interview tool (IQR = 5–10), with fatigue (71%), cough (61%), and headache (61%) those most commonly reported (Figure). Among respondents who reported fever and chills on the day of testing, these resolved in 97% and 96% of respondents, respectively. Symptoms least likely to have resolved included cough (not resolved in 43% [71 of 166]) and fatigue (not resolved in 35% [68 of 192]); among 90 who reported shortness of breath at the time of testing, this symptom had not resolved in 26 (29%). The median interval to symptom resolution among those who reported individual symptoms at the time of testing but not at the time of the interview ranged from 4 to 8 days from the test date, with the longest intervals reported for loss of smell (median = 8 days; IQR = 5–10.5 days) and loss of taste (median = 8 days; IQR = 4–10 days). Among respondents who reported returning to their usual state of health, 34% (59 of 175) still reported one or more of the 17 queried COVID-related symptoms at the time of the interview.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: 805hockey on August 12, 2020, 06:55:22 AM
Guess we'll be able to play a bit of hockey out of state now...
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: fistocuffs on August 18, 2020, 08:23:20 PM
ok.. its too quiet.  Did somebody rob a bank or something?  Hope everyone is doing well.  Heat wave, Covid, Fires, Rolling Blackouts, election year, USPS problems.  2020 will be definitely one for the history books.   
I say, lets do a roll call. 


I, fistocuffs - am here - and am doing good. 
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Knuckle Puck on August 21, 2020, 11:06:44 AM
tspc closed to public for two weeks after an employee and customer test positive.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: alfirst on August 21, 2020, 12:47:47 PM
And all the "Rinks" starting from today will require masks for skaters - which effectively "kills it" imho, leaving our "always non-abiding" rinks to benefit from it all, I guess 
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: HockeyGuy-99 on August 21, 2020, 03:57:24 PM
I've always had a hard enough time breathing without a shield or mouthpiece.  I couldn't imagine skating with a mask on.  Not looking to shift this back to politics so no need to reply with a list of stats I don't have time to read, but I thought Fauci said you should not exercise with a mask on?   
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Nowhearthis on August 21, 2020, 04:13:21 PM
I've always had a hard enough time breathing without a shield or mouthpiece.  I couldn't imagine skating with a mask on.  Not looking to shift this back to politics so no need to reply with a list of stats I don't have time to read, but I thought Fauci said you should not exercise with a mask on?




Let's just have all the kids just hold their breath; about the same effect.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: notTHATdad on August 25, 2020, 02:08:36 PM
Would be nice if they approved something like this:


https://www.surreynowleader.com/sports/bauer-unveils-protective-masks-for-hockey-players-options-for-fans/ (https://www.surreynowleader.com/sports/bauer-unveils-protective-masks-for-hockey-players-options-for-fans/)
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: SkatingDad on August 25, 2020, 03:18:38 PM
And all the "Rinks" starting from today will require masks for skaters - which effectively "kills it" imho, leaving our "always non-abiding" rinks to benefit from it all, I guess


Everyone should boycott The Rinks until they change this stupidity. 
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: alfirst on August 26, 2020, 12:01:40 AM
Rumor is - that was not the Rinks decision.
There was a call from the state health department or something in this "vicinity" that enforced that.


They are just big organization - hence they abide by all those rules (however stupid they are).
Small privately owned rinks are in different position-
although they bear some risk - say, if there is a spyke and it can be traced to, say, KHS...


Read an article recently how MA player joined
NY team in CT tournament - and 12 players on NY team got the virus. MA is saying - we are right for not allowing tournaments and player "cheated " with out-of-state stuff.


Meanwhile, OC is off the watching list and if it goes like it goes looks like tryouts could happen after all - in masks, new helmets, on-line... but somehow.


If CAHA still does not allow games - what to pay for to
join the club? Practices? Will the dues be discounted?









Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: SkatingDad on August 26, 2020, 09:05:09 AM
It is my understanding that The Rinks had a policy that the Figure Skaters had to wear masks while on the ice.  One of the Figure Skating mom's complained that hockey players did not have to wear them.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: alfirst on August 26, 2020, 10:04:33 AM
For figure skaters - it's even more stupid to wear a mask - as the ones I saw are all skating as singles without anyone remotely close.


hey - but I see people in cars (without any passengers) in masks - of course those folks live in a nightmare, no oxygen - so if that mom is one of those,
no wonder she complains.


Luckily there are still more creative guys than whining guys



Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Rats13 on August 26, 2020, 09:16:48 PM
It is my understanding that The Rinks had a policy that the Figure Skaters had to wear masks while on the ice.  One of the Figure Skating mom's complained that hockey players did not have to wear them.


It makes for a good story but I don’t think that is true.  Masks were not previously required on the ice for anyone.  My younger boy tried it and he won’t do it again.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Pistonkev on August 30, 2020, 07:02:40 PM
https://www.theblaze.com/news/covid-deaths-percent-coronavirus-cdc?utm_content=bufferf075b&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=fb-allieonblazetv&fbclid=IwAR1_h1rWDsygu5vFBesmNeHbqSqmOtgbzz4SusrVjsBAVCBlltlKGI8uz9A


Smart that we closed down everything for this. Enjoy the season in CAHA.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: trans4761 on August 31, 2020, 08:36:19 AM
WOW .....an OG Posting !
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: KickSave on September 04, 2020, 07:23:57 AM
Ahhhh Labor Day weekend. Who would’ve ever thought we’d miss the CAHA jamboree?
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: fistocuffs on September 04, 2020, 08:53:52 AM
Families may have to do something out of doors this break.  Maybe take a road trip and camp, and enjoy some peace and quiet - outside, without all the distractions of the day
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: ohnonotagain on September 04, 2020, 12:37:29 PM
Aren’t players in camps this weekend preparing for upcoming tryouts?  Are there rinks that are closed other than TSC?
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Nowhearthis on September 04, 2020, 02:22:32 PM
Camps? what for?  FWIW I have been noticing more and more hockey kids have taken up surfing this Summer.  At least they have that option living here.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Hockey05 on September 06, 2020, 12:05:41 AM
Ahhhh Labor Day weekend. Who would’ve ever thought we’d miss the CAHA jamboree?


As someone who complained bitterly about the jamboree, your post is very fitting.


We've got California teams headed to Vegas to play each other. 
Or, we get to see Cali players when we travel out of state on teams everywhere. 

Tryouts on 10/2? 
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: alfirst on September 10, 2020, 11:07:57 AM
Getting within 1 month now...


Some bullet points in this weird year disregarding non-hockey noise:


 - Some AAA teams tasted the game feel in Vegas - some had bitter taste (Ducks AAA 06?)


 - Some AA teams tasted "other states" tournaments and some got bitter (or beaten) taste as well (ID 07 AA?)


 - Handful of 07s trying (and some definitely will) to make 06 AAA teams


 - More out of state scrimmages and camps getting arranged prior to try-outs


 - Stupid (imo) mask-on-the-ice rules does not seem to stop majority of players from coming to the rinks 


 - AAA coaches are "kinda" holding to too many players and October might bring some revelations to some parents.


 Question - would club discount the fees if tryouts are held in October but there's no CAHA/SCAHA season until 2021?


 Moving on....
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: 805hockey on September 10, 2020, 12:37:44 PM
Wonder if us non-tier peasants get to play in a few tournaments out of state too?  Guess covid doesn't harm tier players lol
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Deuce on September 10, 2020, 12:46:47 PM
Unless something changed last night SCAHA is not allowing out of state plays for us non-tier teams. Only option is non-sanctioned tournaments that are few and far between.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Beer Leaguer on September 10, 2020, 01:36:19 PM
Heard that pushed back tryouts  till 11/20
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: 805hockey on September 10, 2020, 01:47:15 PM
Unless something changed last night SCAHA is not allowing out of state plays for us non-tier teams. Only option is non-sanctioned tournaments that are few and far between.


Yeah, hoping that would've changed...pretty damn stupid imho
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Deuce on September 10, 2020, 02:11:26 PM
Heard that pushed back tryouts  till 11/20


Makes sense since per the minutes for the July meeting they said...


"Dave Bigelow stated that there will be no season until the government gives the green light for youth hockey. At that time we then can have tryouts. Next window of possibility for on ice tryouts would be Oct 1st. If the government still hasn’t opened up youth sports, then we would slide the tryouts out every 30 days until such time we can have youth sports open (hockey season games, scrimmages, etc.). In summary, the tryout rollout would look like Oct. 1st; if not then → Nov. 1st; if not then → Dec. 1st. The Tryouts would be completed for all levels within two weeks. In the worst case scenario, a December 1st tryout, the season would then run from January through to April with limited travel to Santa Barbara, Bakersfield and San Diego. There is a lot of flexibility here. We could possibly extend the season up to May or June if needed and also a possibility to double up games on weekends. We can possibly have a 12-14 game season. Louis Magnifico stated that LAHOA would be supportive of Friday through to Sunday games. The only staffing issues may be with the outlying areas, Santa Barbara, Bakersfield and/or San Diego."
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: ohnonotagain on September 10, 2020, 02:31:14 PM
Heard that pushed back tryouts  till 11/20


Heard the same.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Avery19 on September 12, 2020, 07:18:37 PM
Everything pushed:





To: All CAHA Member Associations


Re: CAHA Permitted Tryout Dates Update






All,






This letter shall serve as notice that pursuant to the CAHA Board of Directors Special Meeting held on September 12, 2020, the Directors voted in the following 2020-2021 CAHA tryout calendar updates;






TIER 1


Tier 1 contracts (bilaterally binding) shall be permitted effective 10/1/20. This will supersede the previously posted Tier 1 tryout dates, as well as the Tier 1 unilateral team formation/player rostering policy issued by CAHA on July 19, 2020. What this means is that players choosing to recommit to a Tier 1 team on/after 10/1/20 will be bound to that team subject to the terms/conditions of player contract they enter into, and CAHA/USAH rostering rules and guidelines.






TIER 2


Provided that Shelter in Place restrictions applicable to ice rinks/youth hockey are lifted statewide, Tier 2 Tryouts shall be permitted Not Earlier Than 11/20/20.






A/BB/B


Provided that Shelter in Place restrictions applicable to ice rinks/youth hockey are lifted statewide, A/BB/B Tryouts shall be permitted Not Earlier Than 12/4/20.






High School


CAHA is currently reviewing the High School (HS) landscape and will be canvasing participating HS team representatives to ascertain what if any impact prior CIF decision regarding sports participation may have on participating teams in the ADHSL/LAKHSHL/SJHSHL leagues. If responses indicate there to be little or no impact, then CAHA will most likely also move HS tryout dates as follows; Provided that Shelter in Place restrictions applicable to ice rinks/youth hockey are lifted statewide, HS Tryouts shall be permitted Not Earlier Than 12/4/20* (*decision pending).






Sincerely,






Thomas Hancock


President


 
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Hockeyking on September 13, 2020, 01:32:34 PM
I heard there are a few 07’s on each 06 AAA team. Is the 07 birth year just that strong or is the remaining 06 that’s didn’t leave for prep schools just that weak? This is the first year is have seen something like this.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: lcadad on September 13, 2020, 05:39:56 PM
This happens every year.  There were '06's playing on several '05 teams last year, both official AAA and AA teams that were really AAA's playing AA.  There is certainly a flood of kids leaving the state as well.  It doesn't have to be one thing or the other.  Out of 5 '06's I know of, who were generally considered to be the best players in the state, not one of them is still playing in California this year.   There are still a lot of talented kids at the '06 year, and maybe the upside is that there will be more opportunities for more kids to experience AAA.  It's a shame after all the data showing that hockey is low risk, it keeps getting restricted and bumped.  Either way, there's nothing unprecedented about a handful of kids playing up a year at AAA.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: HockeyGuy-99 on September 14, 2020, 10:19:45 AM
I'm more interested in why 05's would be playing on an 06' team in Vegas?  That's just weird.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Dman2 on September 14, 2020, 11:41:09 AM
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/coronavirus/article245652280.html
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: notTHATdad on September 15, 2020, 06:00:26 AM
A tragic story. Turns out the coach took sleeping pills (I guess to go to sleep while feeling like crap) while he had Covid. A terrible idea from a respiratory point of view. But he was pretty clearly in bad shape. Really sad.


But before we all take this an an indication that there is no way to do anything safely...



He coached for the Texas Warriors. Here are their Covid rules:


https://www.texaswarriors.org/news_article/show/1122406


They read like an organization just trying to skirt the public health office and keep quiet. Note the part about if you post to facebook about a player or coach having Covid you will be suspended for a year. Also that if 3 kids are caught without masks they will be suspended for a game on successive games (because I guess it's more important to play than enforce).


But here is the kicker....


“20% rule is still in place – If 20% of a team is infected at the same time there will be a 14 day shutdown of the team. We understand that the health department is saying that even one positive result should result in the shut down of a team but we will be adhering to the league rule.”

That's a league rule. You could have 3 or 4 kids with Covid who had been practicing and playing with your team, and they would be FINE with you keeping playing, and potentially using asymptomatic carriers in a competitive game against other teams. Just make sure those 3 or 4 that are showing symptoms stay at home.

That's nuts. No wonder their league has had 31 cases.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: fistocuffs on September 15, 2020, 08:45:31 AM
Now just imagine going to a tournament in Pheonix and playing a few of those teams a couple times.  You can run your team and run a tight covid ship, but you have no control over the other team and what rules govern their practice/play
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: HockeyGuy-99 on September 15, 2020, 09:24:00 AM
Now just imagine going to a tournament in Pheonix and playing a few of those teams a couple times.  You can run your team and run a tight covid ship, but you have no control over the other team and what rules govern their practice/play


It almost sounds like jumping in your car and being a defensive driver on the CA freeway system. 
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: notTHATdad on September 15, 2020, 10:52:57 AM
Sure.


If 1 in 16 cars (i.e. the number of teams at a tournament) that you drove by had the potential to cause your car to burst into flames.


This is an area where the leagues should be 'stepping up' and creating some standard prevention criteria for admission into tournaments.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Knuckle Puck on September 15, 2020, 06:50:26 PM
didn't jd and jk midgets just return from omaha where they played the dallas jr stars?
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: lcadad on September 16, 2020, 11:41:45 AM
didn't jd and jk midgets just return from omaha where they played the dallas jr stars?


At this point, in Midget AAA, from 50-60% of all the teams have already played as many as 10 games.  That includes the Dallas Stars Elite, who played both the JK's and JD's, and are from the Dallas area.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: HockeyGuy-99 on September 16, 2020, 01:09:47 PM
Sure.


If 1 in 16 cars (i.e. the number of teams at a tournament) that you drove by had the potential to cause your car to burst into flames.


This is an area where the leagues should be 'stepping up' and creating some standard prevention criteria for admission into tournaments.


I'd actually call it about 240 cars(15 players per team) with about a 99.8% chance or better if your one of those drivers you'll make it home. 


Any mention as to how many sleeping pills he took?  1, 2, 6, or 10? 


As for the AAA players that recently played and are coming back home, if you're that concerned take another 7 months off cause those boy will all be bouncing around to you local facilities getting their ice time in. 
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Strawman on September 16, 2020, 11:03:24 PM
Sure.


If 1 in 16 cars (i.e. the number of teams at a tournament) that you drove by had the potential to cause your car to burst into flames.


This is an area where the leagues should be 'stepping up' and creating some standard prevention criteria for admission into tournaments.


I'd actually call it about 240 cars(15 players per team) with about a 99.8% chance or better if your one of those drivers you'll make it home. 


Any mention as to how many sleeping pills he took?  1, 2, 6, or 10? 


As for the AAA players that recently played and are coming back home, if you're that concerned take another 7 months off cause those boy will all be bouncing around to you local facilities getting their ice time in.


Actually about 100% if you're talking about the kids.  More people under 20 years of age have died from seasonal flu than Covid since March (i.e., during flu "off-season").  Since ice hockey is played mainly during the height of "flu season," it sounds like the whole hockey experiment in California was just a big mistake.  It's never too late to make Solitaire our state sport.  Checkers is probably too much of a contact sport for us.



Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: fistocuffs on September 17, 2020, 08:26:45 AM
I know, it should not matter about indirect exposure.   That wedding in New England - 175 people ended up with it, i think 6 died. Some some of the dead did not even go to the wedding, they were simply hangin doing their thing.  Eh, but as long as you are not impacted directly, its ok - well its not ok. because you are inconvenienced by this world wide "experiment"

Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Landshark on September 17, 2020, 09:57:18 AM
I'd urge that if you cannot connect your point to hockey that you post it elsewhere.  On a wedding planning site perhaps? The world is a dangerous place. Hockey is not a proven a vector for your fears.
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: Strawman on September 17, 2020, 10:25:39 PM
I know, it should not matter about indirect exposure.   That wedding in New England - 175 people ended up with it, i think 6 died. Some some of the dead did not even go to the wedding, they were simply hangin doing their thing.  Eh, but as long as you are not impacted directly, its ok - well its not ok. because you are inconvenienced by this world wide "experiment"


I agree that sick people shouldn't hang around long-term care homes full of terminally ill elderly people, which is what you're referring to there.  Now, do you have a point related to hockey?
Title: Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
Post by: notTHATdad on September 18, 2020, 07:53:25 PM
To be fair, the topic of this latest discussion was 31 youth hockey players in Texas getting Covid, and a coach dying at death that was at least related to it. I also know kids on two teams at private school that have been quarantined for covid exposure. Not hard to find news of other tournaments beset with it too.


There are safe ways to play and practice. And ways that are not safe. That was the discussion.


Think it's just like the flu? Talk to my dead uncle :-(