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Hockey Discussions => Bantam Hockey => Topic started by: In The Crease on October 30, 2020, 07:57:12 AM
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TIER 2Tier 2 regular season team formation and player contracts (bilaterally binding) shall be permitted effective 11/20/20, and per previously posted league tryout dates. What this means is that players choosing to commit to a Tier 2 team on/after 11/20/20 without an on-ice tryout will be bound to that team subject to the terms/conditions of player contract they enter into, and CAHA/USAH rostering rules and guidelines. Additionally, Tier 2 tournament rosters will not be approved after 11/20/20.
[/size]Ridiculous! Is there a even going to be a season? When? What does it look like (how many games? etc.)? Why would I sign without knowing this? What is the purpose of the "contract"? You can not control where I go and who I play with without a CAHA season. The last statement that they will not approve Tournament rosters after 11/20 is truly the main issue. Are there other parents questioning this? We will not be signing. Parents need to unite and push back. Thoughts?
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I agree, this is the only sport my kid has played that did not provide transparency, including costs, travel requirements and a preliminary game schedule. This has been the main CAHA failure for over a decade, and why many kids stop (and eventually quit)at the in house level. I know this from direct experience in recruiting classmates and neighbors years back. Parents shied away from the long and costly commitment (even if overly worried) and moved on to the easier to manage sports. Kids have told me years later that they wished that they still played and that their parents were turned off by the commitment, both financial and time. I think if the season was somehow split like back east we would get a lot more participation.
Moving on with our current environment, I know that the teams have their budgets and an idea of game schedules. Make them share. We need to respect ourselves as customers - or at least respect our money - and should be demanding a bit more than what CAHA has traditionally provided. This is a special year in so many ways and that is when changes can occur. An then maybe one day it won't be like "oh my, how fantastic that my kid has made the team! (as if he wouldn't somewhere) Take my money commit please so I can be your controlled plebe for the next 7-8 months!"
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Have you talked to your association(s)? They should know by now what their specific plan is, and what their backup plans are if things open up more, or what they will do if things get more restrictive. CAHA has already stated they won't schedule a AA season, so its up to the associations/teams to create their own schedule - presumably out of state while King Newsom continues to dictate restricting kids' growth and development.
There are already AA teams formed at Midget and Bantam level. Check myhockeyrankings.com for how they are doing. They are traveling and playing out of state.
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To be precise CAHA told SCAHA and NorCal to schedule the AA games. The plan, I believe, was for 11-14 games.
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Schedule them where? Do NorCal and SoCal play each other or is it separate until play downs/States?
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My understanding is there are no CAHA weekends. Southern teams will play each other and Northern teams will play each other. SCAHA will have a certain number of teams they can send to playdowns (4) and NorCal will have two slots. CAHA released this in July:
2020-2021 Tier 2 Season Format[/size]Due to the number of Tier 2 teams and the continued postponement by the State with respect to youth sports competition, coupled with the already noticed Tier 2 tryout dates, CAHA will not be scheduling the usual CAHA Tier 2 Weekends, but rather Tier 2 games this season will be scheduled by their respective Leagues (NORCAL/SCAHA) at such time the State permits youth sports competition. CAHA Tier 2 State Championships will differ this year only, from the normal (4) teamision format, to a six (6) teamision format (2-NORCAL/4-SCAHA) with the teams selected by their respective League to advance.Sincerely,Thomas HancockCAHA President
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Not playing in California
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Soooo, that mean A/B levels can still form tournament teams?
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Signing LOIs is the RIGHT call. Players were jumping from team to team to go to tournaments all over the country. Some families essentially didn't care about being the outbreak monkey.
Most Tier teams are invited to tournaments and have to re-roster every time and it is a long painful process. Signing LOIs locks rosters in so that clubs don't have to go through the process of rostering for every tournament AND stopping players from jumping to multiple clubs/teams for random tournaments.
It is the right thing to do.
As for games in CA - never gonna happen. The season scheduled for Feb-Mar-Apr-May will only get games played if/when clubs agree to "weekends" in another state. Maybe once a month, go to another state w/4 teams and they all play each other. That is the only way I can see a CAHA season getting completed.
As for tournament teams, not too many states are going through with scheduled tournaments. Even those are getting cancelled. So, what is the point of NOT signing? What would the advantage to that be?
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Signing LOIs is the RIGHT call. Players were jumping from team to team to go to tournaments all over the country. Some families essentially didn't care about being the outbreak monkey.
Most Tier teams are invited to tournaments and have to re-roster every time and it is a long painful process. Signing LOIs locks rosters in so that clubs don't have to go through the process of rostering for every tournament AND stopping players from jumping to multiple clubs/teams for random tournaments.
It is the right thing to do.
As for games in CA - never gonna happen. The season scheduled for Feb-Mar-Apr-May will only get games played if/when clubs agree to "weekends" in another state. Maybe once a month, go to another state w/4 teams and they all play each other. That is the only way I can see a CAHA season getting completed.
As for tournament teams, not too many states are going through with scheduled tournaments. Even those are getting cancelled. So, what is the point of NOT signing? What would the advantage to that be?
The advantage is for the clubs. Money for essentially getting paid to used their name in tournaments and sell a few uniforms
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How does signing for one team keep you from being an outbreak monkey? You are going to out of state tourney's - traveling in groups. All staying in hotels. All playing teams from other states- and really mixing it up with checking, close contact, indoors, on benches with zero social distancing for close to 2-3 hours w/ zero cohorting . btw. Coaches are coaching multiple teams, kids are signing for both AA and HS.. .. by definition. you are all outbreak monkeys on this one. (so to speak).
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None of these COVID rules make since. They are all arbitrary and do not hold up to scrutiny.
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Yeah,
and meanwhile kids are skating, playing (where and whenever they can), some got tested positive, sit at home for couple days (like with any other cold/flu) - some have to quarantine then for 14 days and life goes on...[size=78%] [/size]
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I'm not sure I understand CAHA's latest attempt to cancel and rescind travel approvals. CAHA is responsible to USA Hockey to uphold the USA Hockey rosters and manage a season for youth hockey in CA. I don't understand how they have an ability to advise on anything beyond that. CAHA somehow feels they have a legal liability if they approve travel. But that doesn't quiet make sense under their guidelines. Nothing this like is highlighted as a responsibility to adopt a liability of allowing a team to travel. In fact the guidelines indemnify CAHA from the member (Team) so that they are held harmless. So CAHA is sticking their necks into a liability issue that they don't have, but by doing so might be opening it up to a liability. So next year a team travels and someone gets the flu or the measles is CAHA liable? A hotel is infected with bed bugs is CAHA liable? A car accident and a hockey player is injured is CAHA liable? It is the Member (team) and the player and family that make the decision to go. CAHA is simply approving a USA Hockey registration and the tournament is sanctioned.
Its not a simple decision to go or stay. The pandemic is real and there are people that are getting sick. But its not CAHA that has any liability. Its the team and the player/family. Covid is not an unknown and it should be very clearly stated by the team that this is a decision that is made and the risks are accepted.
I'm not knocking CAHA board or minimizing covid in this post. But trying to understand the legal basis that CAHA has to not allow travel due to their concern about legal issues against them.
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The fact that the state mandate clearly states no travel out of state for youth sports should be enough for clubs to hit pause.
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The fact that the state mandate clearly states no travel out of state for youth sports should be enough for clubs to hit pause.
Yea and all the other state mandates that have been created have been totally warranted!! Oh brother! Let people police themselves...
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“You’re not the boss of me!†is annoying enough when it comes from a child.
Newsflash: our kids’ hockey future will survive a missed tournament or “showcaseâ€. Let’s get this thing under control so that when we travel we can actually play different teams, not the same 6 or 7 others who still insist on traveling.
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“You’re not the boss of me!†is annoying enough when it comes from a child.
Newsflash: our kids’ hockey future will survive a missed tournament or “showcaseâ€. Let’s get this thing under control so that when we travel we can actually play different teams, not the same 6 or 7 others who still insist on traveling.
If you're following all guidelines, mandates or recommendations as it pertains to COVID in California then I applaud you. They are difficult to track and even harder to follow. If you are following all recommended guidelines it also means that players aren't practicing or playing and will not be for an extended period and haven't for quote a while. It's critical to remember these are "recommended precautions".
We will get through this and we will do it faster by being vigilant and careful just as much as if we were isolated. The case rates between California and Texas don't vary much, but their approaches are polar opposites with regards to shutting down.
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Show me one team that traveled out of state that was truly vigilant. Name one team that has traveled that hasn’t had an outbreak. They’re asking us to stop. Our doctors and nurses are asking us to stop.
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Show me one team that traveled out of state that was truly vigilant. Name one team that has traveled that hasn’t had an outbreak. They’re asking us to stop. Our doctors and nurses are asking us to stop.
Doctors and Nurses aren't asking us to stop. The government is asking us to stop. The Doctors and Nurses are asking us to follow the CDC recommendations of washing our hands, wearing a mask, etc. There are virologists that being the immediate stay-at-home (thus indoors) order are more harmful than good.
There have been many California teams travel out of the state that have not contracted a single case. There are also teams that have gone out of state and contracted the virus. Was it from hockey? Was it from travel? or was it from behavior that was not inline with the recommendations from the CDC?
There are CA schools in session that have been in session since April without a documented case of in-school transmission. There are teams that are practicing that have not had a single case of transmission on ice and there are teams that have traveled that have not contracted a single case. Why can't we use the positive behaviors as an example rather, why must we look at the behaviors that have caused the spread?
Again, I applaud you in being able to following all recommendations, guidelines, and mandates. They aren't easy to do and I commend your dedication in helping eradicate the virus.
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We totally agree. Here the thing: not all the teams traveling are following guidelines. Rinks kick parents outside, where the parents then congregate to watch livestreams. Watch video - look at the parents and some coaches- no masks, yelling... Go to the restaurants - same thing. What’s the solution?
And yes, doctors and nurses are asking. You may not know them, but they are asking.
It’s not easy. With human nature and politics play way too much of a role in all of this, there is no good answer.
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Yup, I feel we agree. The best we can do is, as individuals, decide what's best even if it may not align directly with the recommendations. Some recommendations are absolute no-brainers, others are a bit rougher. I could go on-and-on about the restrictions against practices (which I do not agree with and would go against the restrictions if the opportunity arose), but, at least I have more time to go to the mall, which is open.
Regarding the original statement by 5lap5hot, I agree, CAHA is currently in a pickle. Will they take a CA state recommendation and turn it into a CAHA mandate? Utah had this exact situation a few months back when they entered their first shutdown. They opted to allow the teams to travel with no cases in the state being linked to this behavior and decision. CAHA may feel like there's no right, or no wrong decision, but, it has potential impact of who stays going forward. I wish them the best and admit, I'm glad I'm not in the position to make the decision.
What if any travel between post Xmas and MLK happen to be the last available games across the entire country until May or the next season? It would sure make playing feel well worth it (for many of these kids it'd be the first time playing a competitive game since March). The unknown of what's going to happen in the future (regardless of the availability of a vaccine) causes a feeling of FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out) so some individual family decisions are made based on that. I just hope the families that do travel are being vigilant and are using science based common sense.
Edit:
I also feel any decision that affects post Xmas and MLK travel will also impact Presidents Day (at a minimum).
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Yes CA Hockey Parent. That’s the question that I proposed. Not if we should or shouldn’t go. That’s not the point. I don’t see anywhere in the CAHA regulations that give them the authority to not authorize a USA Hockey sanctioned event with USA Hockey players. I think they’re asking for more exposure when none exists. Your team has the ability to go or not and you as a player/family has the choice as well.
I don’t want to jump into the fight about covid as it’s too emotional. This is purely a “legal†question. I don’t see it for CAHA.
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Show me one team that traveled out of state that was truly vigilant. Name one team that has traveled that hasn’t had an outbreak. They’re asking us to stop. Our doctors and nurses are asking us to stop.
Plenty of teams have travelled to multiple states, played teams from multiple states, and continue to hold practices with zero cases. No need to name them, I think you can figure it out. Successful programs are controlling the environment and risk as much as possible and have the buy-in and commitment of players, coaches, and families to do that.
According to news sources, the spread at Thanksgiving family gatherings is through the roof. Could it just be that people let their guards down at home? Hell, maybe these families all make out or have big orgies after dinner? IDK what goes on in other people’s households.
I would argue that the risk goes down with activities out of the household because the level of structure and awareness is higher.
The rules applied by Ca lawmakers is nothing more than a guess since they seem to have ZERO data despite spending millions on the contact tracing team (all led by Newsom’s business buddies). I’m sure they are being paid very well but there is ZERO data being shared regarding the spread. Listened to the Fresno County Health Director today blame gyms for being super spreaders. They have been closed for six months, how could they be to blame. Total BS but people are stupid enough to believe the BA!
Finally, for those who said missing a tournament or two won’t hurt your kids development. It’s not a tournament or two, it’s now a year or two if we don’t push to make games and travel happen. I assume most of you have a kid in tier hockey but can you say the kid who plays A or B hockey who started a year or two ago isn’t going to suffer by being off the ice for a year? Most A and B aren’t on the ice at all. How many of those kids will not come back?
If you are at risk, stay home otherwise be safe and play hockey!!!
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It’s just plain sad and depressing that legal standing has to even be an issue. People will never do the right thing if it’s an inconvenience to them. Sure a lost season is a travesty. We shouldn’t even be in this situation, yet here we are arguing about the entitlement to have a USA Hockey roster.
If everyone could agree to the right things, I have no doubt hockey and other sports could be done safely. But at this point everyone is too busy complaining and being outraged.
Have a great night. It’s a beauty.
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Kicksave you just can't get off your high horse. Everything I've got three kids traveling and have done tournaments all around the country. Not one of mine have come back with covid and together we've done 11 tournaments/travel out of state. I've now spent almost a $1000 on testing and still negative. Tell me why I would want to stay here in CA when we have the most cases? CA has been very good at pushing masks for over 6 months but we still have the most cases in the country and its growing super fast with these, but still my family has been at these tournaments and practices and still no covid for us. So either we're immune or we've been following the guidelines and its been handled well among the teams.
So yes if you don't like dealing with legal issues don't sign a contract ever. Yes I would like people to follow the rules that's why they're there. If you don't want to answer the question and simply complain that its come to this your missing the point of the question. As I said its not about COVID but about what they can do. Its a forum on CAHA its here to ask questions and even theoretical ones. So either answer that or go to another thread.
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CAHockeyParent
"According to news sources, the spread at Thanksgiving family gatherings is through the roof. Could it just be that people let their guards down at home? Hell, maybe these families all make out or have big orgies after dinner? IDK what goes on in other people’s households."
I hope the turkey wasn't involved in the orgies. IDK what goes into those turkeys.
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Looks like caha is letting those who want to play out of state, play
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That’s one way to look at it. I read it more like. Caha overreaached. They are not in the business of policing. Teams can read and know what the state said about out of state sports
If you look at bylaws of caha. They simply are there to make sure penalties are properly enforced and rosters are correct and legal and all teams are following USA hockey rules of play
I feel the liability is now on the team. And the families if crap hits the Covid fan. This is where it belongs I feel.
Caha is not allowing anything. It was never their call to dictate
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That’s one way to look at it. I read it more like. Caha overreaached. They are not in the business of policing. Teams can read and know what the state said about out of state sports
If you look at bylaws of caha. They simply are there to make sure penalties are properly enforced and rosters are correct and legal and all teams are following USA hockey rules of play
I feel the liability is now on the team. And the families if crap hits the Covid fan. This is where it belongs I feel.
Caha is not allowing anything. It was never their call to dictate
I'm glad with the decision. Moreso, I'm glad they included an explanation as to why the temporary per.it requirement was implemented. It's a good realization by CAHA and a win for individuals and their clubs so the decision could be done at the team and family level.
Hope everyone has been healthy and stays healthy as we head into the holiday stretch.
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That’s one way to look at it. I read it more like. Caha overreaached. They are not in the business of policing. Teams can read and know what the state said about out of state sports
If you look at bylaws of caha. They simply are there to make sure penalties are properly enforced and rosters are correct and legal and all teams are following USA hockey rules of play
I feel the liability is now on the team. And the families if crap hits the Covid fan. This is where it belongs I feel.
Caha is not allowing anything. It was never their call to dictate
Another armchair quarterback
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KickSave, there are plenty of teams that have travelled out of state with zero outbreaks. I won't name them for you to spurn. You can do your own homework. My son's team has had zero outbreaks and observe protocols and use basic common sense. We travel every few weeks. Don't worry. We'll never be in contact with you, apparently. Happy Holidays.