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Author Topic: PWAA 2016-17  (Read 225463 times)

Pistonkev

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Re: PWAA 2016-17
« Reply #120 on: July 07, 2016, 12:41:23 PM »
Bummer about the turn of events in Edmonton. Props to those kids and families who decided to tough it out and not bail on the team. Sad to hear about that kind of thing.

Lets be honest, at that age the kid didn't quit.....the parent did!  That is a teaching moment where the child understands life is not easy or fair.


I agree what weak parent pulled their kid from lack of ice time?

Maverick

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Re: PWAA 2016-17
« Reply #121 on: July 07, 2016, 02:04:57 PM »
Bummer about the turn of events in Edmonton. Props to those kids and families who decided to tough it out and not bail on the team. Sad to hear about that kind of thing.

Lets be honest, at that age the kid didn't quit.....the parent did!  That is a teaching moment where the child understands life is not easy or fair.




I agree what weak parent pulled their kid from lack of ice time?


More than likely, yes the parent pulled the kid.  However, there is the chance that the kid wanted to quit and parents let him.  either way sucks

BigDuke6

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Re: PWAA 2016-17
« Reply #122 on: July 07, 2016, 10:10:57 PM »
That's crazy.  To go through all that, the travel, etc., and to quit in the middle?  Unreal.

Pistonkev

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Re: PWAA 2016-17
« Reply #123 on: July 08, 2016, 08:21:33 AM »
That's crazy.  To go through all that, the travel, etc., and to quit in the middle?  Unreal.
[/


I know wtf? Disposable income I guess

HockeyDad123

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Re: PWAA 2016-17
« Reply #124 on: July 08, 2016, 12:52:15 PM »
Worst CA Brick performance in how many years? Worst record of all 06 teams. Ouch. That is tough...

4 check

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Re: PWAA 2016-17
« Reply #125 on: July 08, 2016, 03:58:52 PM »
Bummer about the turn of events in Edmonton. Props to those kids and families who decided to tough it out and not bail on the team. Sad to hear about that kind of thing.

Lets be honest, at that age the kid didn't quit.....the parent did!  That is a teaching moment where the child understands life is not easy or fair.




I agree what weak parent pulled their kid from lack of ice time?


More than likely, yes the parent pulled the kid.  However, there is the chance that the kid wanted to quit and parents let him.  either way sucks

Exactly

hopelesshockeyparent

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Re: PWAA 2016-17
« Reply #126 on: July 08, 2016, 08:04:42 PM »
Its a shame about the performance of the 06 Brick team. Perhaps its time for Andy Cohen to hand the reigns to someone who can run it properly. All the other Brick teams have skated together for months before and have a proper selection process.


The performance does not reflect the kids that played, the coaches nor the quality of California Hockey. It is a reflection of Andy Cohens poor management. He needs to stop treating the license as his own personal income boost and invest in time and quality management. The Kids and the coaches are excellent, just under prepared and poorly funded.


How is it possible that California have one of the top 2 06 teams in the country, yet the Brick team come dead last.


Coaches can only do so much in the time provided, and the kids never looked out skated nor out of their depth.


Changes required going forward.

lcadad

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Re: PWAA 2016-17
« Reply #127 on: July 08, 2016, 08:48:36 PM »
I'm not sure why we are talking about the '06 Brick team in the 2016 Peewee AA thread, but since that's been happening I'll throw in my 2 cents.Seems like the last few years there has been a lot of criticism of the process, the approach compared to other teams, and the on ice product.  For example last year, several people that watched the games complained that there was not enough "team play" despite a number of highly talented kids.  I saw a portion of one practice for that team last year, and it was certainly impressive in terms of the 1 on 1 abilities of many of the kids who were selected but team chemistry never emerged.

From the box scores, and shot totals, this years team was certainly competitive.  They put up nearly the same number or more shots in most of the games they played.  Ironically their sole win vs Montreal suggests that the goalie might have stole them one there as they were substantially outshot in that game.For example, against the undefeated Minnesota 3 team, they lost 3-1 with 16 to 18 shots.  In other games, they surrendered 3 empty net goals.  This is not a team that is out of their depth.  It seems they were short on puck luck and perhaps some seasoning that could have won several of the close games they lost.  Apparently they suffered a setback or two surrendering leads late in a game.

I have many questions about the Brick system here, and the very idea that we send a "Team California" when it essentially ends up being a team SoCal, without representation from either SD or NorCal, who both produce competitive teams.  I question the franchise aspect of the system, the amount of time the team has to prepare, and the fact that the coaches are typically coming to it with fairly extreme bias towards the players they know the best. 

I know a lot of the kids at this age group, and it's pretty clear that unless your child played for either the kings or ducks, their chances to make the team are exceedingly slim.  This year the 2nd best predominantly 06 team was the Ice Dogs, who were neck and neck with the Ducks, so there's understandably some really good kids from that team that made the roster and should have, but this season seems to be an anomaly, and the team is still heavy with players from the Ducks which was a short bench team with a AA caliber 05 on it as well.

Let's just say hypothetically that you have 2 kids who are quite similar at first blush.  The Brick clinics offer a few opportunities for kids to show what they can do, but like most teams, they are already about 90% picked before anyone steps on the ice.  If you are the coach, and have 2-3 seasons with a player you've coached, how likely are you to pick the player you don't know that well?  What are the tryouts actually for then? 

From what people have told me, many of the other teams are more seasoned and prepared to play together, because they are put together earlier, and get in more tournament play.  Again I don't have all the facts, so I take these statements with a grain of salt, but if we look at a program like the Jr. Bruins for example, they are basically grooming kids to play for a team 4 years in advance of the Brick.  I find that a little bit crazy but it does indicate some of what you have to compete with.  Maybe that's not anything we should care about competing with?

At the end of the day, it seems to me that hockey is doing just fine in California, and by the time these kids are college age, we should see a lot of california born players continuing into the higher levels the sport offers.  California born players are being recruited by prep schools and western colleges, and as more California and western US universities add Division 1 programs, there will be a lot of opportunity.  I was recently corresponding with someone back east about the Squirt divisions last season, and the fact that there were over 50 teams in scaha.  The sport is extremely healthy, and the Brick is simply a sideshow that means very little in terms of how much talent and how competitive our kids are nationally.    One would hope that at very least the experience of playing in a prestigious international tournament on a regional all star team is its own reward for those kids and their families.  From what I've heard, the cost is certainly astronomical for a single tournament.  At 9-10 they are little boys, not little mini professionals. 

The saddest thing to hear is that a kid would literally drop off the team at the end of the tournament.  Nothing gets people more upset than the subject of ice time and usage of their kids, or lack thereof.   I didn't see the games, so I have no idea how much the various lines were played, but unless we were talking about a first line player walking off the team in a huff over results, I'm guessing that the family that made the painful decision to walk off the team and not have their kid finish things out, might very well have been doing that because their kid has been riding the bench for the majority of the tournament.


These are the types of situations that are high up on the list of reasons that kids quit the sport entirely, despite having a AAA pedigree.  Too much pressure and focus on competition and winning at too early an age is something that USA Hockey has been trying to address for years now, and is the reason for Mite ADM, and the fact that there is no sanctioned Squirt national championship tournament anymore.  My biggest concern for my child is that they develop confidence and essential skills in all aspects of the game.  My fear would be a situation where the coach tries to turn my son into a 3rd line grinder at the expense of his development.   All the talk about honoring a commitment and seeing something through, sounds good to the adult mind, but isn't something I'd expect to be received by a kid who has had their ego and self confidence trashed.  Again, not saying I agree, or would have done what those parents chose to do myself, but I'm not going to rush to condemn the family when I wasn't party to what happened. 

This is a team that is going to essentially disband at this point anyways.  Once again, realization that your kid is seen by the coaches as being at the bottom of the roster is a difficult pill to swallow when you are in the midst of the tournament, and this perhaps goes back to the fact that if the team had a larger window of preparation and played in more highly competitive tune-ups than they do, this might have become evident earlier before it was too late for the family to back out gracefully if they couldn't accept the situation.


The brick is franchised, so I'm not sure what could be done about the situation that didn't involve a lot of soul searching and perhaps the investment in it by a larger group of people than those currently controlling the team and everything having to do with it.   
« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 09:03:12 PM by lcadad »

Handboni

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Re: PWAA 2016-17
« Reply #128 on: July 09, 2016, 01:32:37 AM »
I'm not sure why we are talking about the '06 Brick team in the 2016 Peewee AA thread, but since that's been happening I'll throw in my 2 cents.Seems like the last few years there has been a lot of criticism of the process, the approach compared to other teams, and the on ice product.  For example last year, several people that watched the games complained that there was not enough "team play" despite a number of highly talented kids.  I saw a portion of one practice for that team last year, and it was certainly impressive in terms of the 1 on 1 abilities of many of the kids who were selected but team chemistry never emerged.

From the box scores, and shot totals, this years team was certainly competitive.  They put up nearly the same number or more shots in most of the games they played.  Ironically their sole win vs Montreal suggests that the goalie might have stole them one there as they were substantially outshot in that game.For example, against the undefeated Minnesota 3 team, they lost 3-1 with 16 to 18 shots.  In other games, they surrendered 3 empty net goals.  This is not a team that is out of their depth.  It seems they were short on puck luck and perhaps some seasoning that could have won several of the close games they lost.  Apparently they suffered a setback or two surrendering leads late in a game.

I have many questions about the Brick system here, and the very idea that we send a "Team California" when it essentially ends up being a team SoCal, without representation from either SD or NorCal, who both produce competitive teams.  I question the franchise aspect of the system, the amount of time the team has to prepare, and the fact that the coaches are typically coming to it with fairly extreme bias towards the players they know the best. 

I know a lot of the kids at this age group, and it's pretty clear that unless your child played for either the kings or ducks, their chances to make the team are exceedingly slim.  This year the 2nd best predominantly 06 team was the Ice Dogs, who were neck and neck with the Ducks, so there's understandably some really good kids from that team that made the roster and should have, but this season seems to be an anomaly, and the team is still heavy with players from the Ducks which was a short bench team with a AA caliber 05 on it as well.

Let's just say hypothetically that you have 2 kids who are quite similar at first blush.  The Brick clinics offer a few opportunities for kids to show what they can do, but like most teams, they are already about 90% picked before anyone steps on the ice.  If you are the coach, and have 2-3 seasons with a player you've coached, how likely are you to pick the player you don't know that well?  What are the tryouts actually for then? 

From what people have told me, many of the other teams are more seasoned and prepared to play together, because they are put together earlier, and get in more tournament play.  Again I don't have all the facts, so I take these statements with a grain of salt, but if we look at a program like the Jr. Bruins for example, they are basically grooming kids to play for a team 4 years in advance of the Brick.  I find that a little bit crazy but it does indicate some of what you have to compete with.  Maybe that's not anything we should care about competing with?

At the end of the day, it seems to me that hockey is doing just fine in California, and by the time these kids are college age, we should see a lot of california born players continuing into the higher levels the sport offers.  California born players are being recruited by prep schools and western colleges, and as more California and western US universities add Division 1 programs, there will be a lot of opportunity.  I was recently corresponding with someone back east about the Squirt divisions last season, and the fact that there were over 50 teams in scaha.  The sport is extremely healthy, and the Brick is simply a sideshow that means very little in terms of how much talent and how competitive our kids are nationally.    One would hope that at very least the experience of playing in a prestigious international tournament on a regional all star team is its own reward for those kids and their families.  From what I've heard, the cost is certainly astronomical for a single tournament.  At 9-10 they are little boys, not little mini professionals. 

The saddest thing to hear is that a kid would literally drop off the team at the end of the tournament.  Nothing gets people more upset than the subject of ice time and usage of their kids, or lack thereof.   I didn't see the games, so I have no idea how much the various lines were played, but unless we were talking about a first line player walking off the team in a huff over results, I'm guessing that the family that made the painful decision to walk off the team and not have their kid finish things out, might very well have been doing that because their kid has been riding the bench for the majority of the tournament.


These are the types of situations that are high up on the list of reasons that kids quit the sport entirely, despite having a AAA pedigree.  Too much pressure and focus on competition and winning at too early an age is something that USA Hockey has been trying to address for years now, and is the reason for Mite ADM, and the fact that there is no sanctioned Squirt national championship tournament anymore.  My biggest concern for my child is that they develop confidence and essential skills in all aspects of the game.  My fear would be a situation where the coach tries to turn my son into a 3rd line grinder at the expense of his development.   All the talk about honoring a commitment and seeing something through, sounds good to the adult mind, but isn't something I'd expect to be received by a kid who has had their ego and self confidence trashed.  Again, not saying I agree, or would have done what those parents chose to do myself, but I'm not going to rush to condemn the family when I wasn't party to what happened. 

This is a team that is going to essentially disband at this point anyways.  Once again, realization that your kid is seen by the coaches as being at the bottom of the roster is a difficult pill to swallow when you are in the midst of the tournament, and this perhaps goes back to the fact that if the team had a larger window of preparation and played in more highly competitive tune-ups than they do, this might have become evident earlier before it was too late for the family to back out gracefully if they couldn't accept the situation.


The brick is franchised, so I'm not sure what could be done about the situation that didn't involve a lot of soul searching and perhaps the investment in it by a larger group of people than those currently controlling the team and everything having to do with it.   

Well said. Nice perspective.

Hockey sophist

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Re: PWAA 2016-17
« Reply #129 on: July 09, 2016, 11:12:42 AM »

Excellent post on multiple levels by Icadad.   We happened to be in Edmonton for a Gretzky camp and caught the BC - Red Wings game on a brief trip to the West Edmonton Mall.  The BC team was impressive but not necessarily more talented than our '06 CA team.   Our son is an '05 who tried out for Brick last year and we have seen both the Ducks and Ice Dogs mostly '06 teams over 2 years and I watched the '06 team at Carmen Starr and our son scrimmaged them when on the Gasseau '05 AAA team this spring.   There are lots of reasons why teams loss games in an evenly matched tournament.   One of those reasons might have been the emotional impact of one or two players leaving the team.   We happened to meet and talk to a CA Brick coach who knew our son from "in house" play years ago.   Even a kid of who might not play much is still part of team and there are attachments among the kids.  Despite the outcome of this event, the best kids in California hold their own with the best in Canada and east of  the Mississippi river.   

While in Edmonton, the St. Alberta newspaper gave a short history of the tournament.   27 years ago, a hockey dad wanted to create a tournament to push his son who went on to have a good career in the NHL.  The Brick, btw, is a major retail outlet for mattresses and appliances.    We bought our appliances for our Victoria BC house at the Brick in 2006.  The Brick tournament is an interesting glimpse into to future, if not taken too seriously, brought to you by an appliance and mattress store and other commercial sponsors. 

Our son nearly ended up as a 3rd line grinder on one of the '05 PWAAA teams.   For better or worse, he is a "personality player" who is a risk taker.  Kids and adults learn by taking risks and we encourage it in our son on the ice and classroom.   But these win-oriented teams accept risk taking only by a handful of their "personality players."  The structural problem with this approach is that pre-puberty hockey stars may not dominate years later otherwise NHL teams could just draft Brick players.   While waiting for my wife to finish shopping at the W. Edmonton mall, two Brick teams walked by us for their dry land.  Hardly any player on either team even came up to the shoulder's of our '05 son.    They looked like mites.   It reminded him and me how much kids change in a year let alone 3-5 years.

The Gretzky camp was one of our best hockey experiences ever.   In part, we decided that when our son is 18, he needs more memories that just hockey arenas and an assortment of coaches, good and not so good.  So we have been traveling through beautiful Western Canada and will continue to do so.  The Gretzky camp also creates a wonderful atmosphere for families and kids.   

From a hockey perspective, it is interesting that the Gretzky camp coaches, including two NHL scouts, recognized something more than a 3rd line grinder in our son.    In the scrimmage at the end of the camp, our son's team came back and won 9-8 in a shoot out.   He felt like an integral part of the victory.  That win and the celebration was just as joyful and authentic as any tournament win and who knows, maybe as emotionally satisfying as a Brick championship.  The difference is about "bragging rights."   The Brick game we watched was at a more consistently good level than the mixed PW, BN, and Midget kids at the Gretzky camp but the older kids, including a remarkable 11 year old Canadian girl, were generally better as they should be.   The kids at the Gretzky camp seemed to have more fun than kids I have observed at the '05 Brick tryouts or the elite PWAAA Carmen Starr this spring and maybe better memories in 5 or 10 years.   What really matters for our sons and daughters, in the moment, and years later?   

In that context, our son was a PWAA last year, a PWAAA this spring, to a PWA
this coming season.  Our final decision reflected the best coaching fit our our son.  The number of A's reflects quality of competition in practice and games but is otherwise not so important.   

jjyoung909

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Re: PWAA 2016-17
« Reply #130 on: July 09, 2016, 11:54:50 AM »

Excellent post on multiple levels by Icadad.   We happened to be in Edmonton for a Gretzky camp and caught the BC - Red Wings game on a brief trip to the West Edmonton Mall.  The BC team was impressive but not necessarily more talented than our '06 CA team.   Our son is an '05 who tried out for Brick last year and we have seen both the Ducks and Ice Dogs mostly '06 teams over 2 years and I watched the '06 team at Carmen Starr and our son scrimmaged them when on the Gasseau '05 AAA team this spring.   There are lots of reasons why teams loss games in an evenly matched tournament.   One of those reasons might have been the emotional impact of one or two players leaving the team.   We happened to meet and talk to a CA Brick coach who knew our son from "in house" play years ago.   Even a kid of who might not play much is still part of team and there are attachments among the kids.  Despite the outcome of this event, the best kids in California hold their own with the best in Canada and east of  the Mississippi river.   

While in Edmonton, the St. Alberta newspaper gave a short history of the tournament.   27 years ago, a hockey dad wanted to create a tournament to push his son who went on to have a good career in the NHL.  The Brick, btw, is a major retail outlet for mattresses and appliances.    We bought our appliances for our Victoria BC house at the Brick in 2006.  The Brick tournament is an interesting glimpse into to future, if not taken too seriously, brought to you by an appliance and mattress store and other commercial sponsors. 

Our son nearly ended up as a 3rd line grinder on one of the '05 PWAAA teams.   For better or worse, he is a "personality player" who is a risk taker.  Kids and adults learn by taking risks and we encourage it in our son on the ice and classroom.   But these win-oriented teams accept risk taking only by a handful of their "personality players."  The structural problem with this approach is that pre-puberty hockey stars may not dominate years later otherwise NHL teams could just draft Brick players.   While waiting for my wife to finish shopping at the W. Edmonton mall, two Brick teams walked by us for their dry land.  Hardly any player on either team even came up to the shoulder's of our '05 son.    They looked like mites.   It reminded him and me how much kids change in a year let alone 3-5 years.

The Gretzky camp was one of our best hockey experiences ever.   In part, we decided that when our son is 18, he needs more memories that just hockey arenas and an assortment of coaches, good and not so good.  So we have been traveling through beautiful Western Canada and will continue to do so.  The Gretzky camp also creates a wonderful atmosphere for families and kids.   

From a hockey perspective, it is interesting that the Gretzky camp coaches, including two NHL scouts, recognized something more than a 3rd line grinder in our son.    In the scrimmage at the end of the camp, our son's team came back and won 9-8 in a shoot out.   He felt like an integral part of the victory.  That win and the celebration was just as joyful and authentic as any tournament win and who knows, maybe as emotionally satisfying as a Brick championship.  The difference is about "bragging rights."   The Brick game we watched was at a more consistently good level than the mixed PW, BN, and Midget kids at the Gretzky camp but the older kids, including a remarkable 11 year old Canadian girl, were generally better as they should be.   The kids at the Gretzky camp seemed to have more fun than kids I have observed at the '05 Brick tryouts or the elite PWAAA Carmen Starr this spring and maybe better memories in 5 or 10 years.   What really matters for our sons and daughters, in the moment, and years later?   

In that context, our son was a PWAA last year, a PWAAA this spring, to a PWA
this coming season.  Our final decision reflected the best coaching fit our our son.  The number of A's reflects quality of competition in practice and games but is otherwise not so important.


Very well put HS. 

MO-ICETIME

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Re: PWAA 2016-17
« Reply #131 on: July 09, 2016, 04:50:55 PM »

Excellent post on multiple levels by Icadad.   We happened to be in Edmonton for a Gretzky camp and caught the BC - Red Wings game on a brief trip to the West Edmonton Mall.  The BC team was impressive but not necessarily more talented than our '06 CA team.   Our son is an '05 who tried out for Brick last year and we have seen both the Ducks and Ice Dogs mostly '06 teams over 2 years and I watched the '06 team at Carmen Starr and our son scrimmaged them when on the Gasseau '05 AAA team this spring.   There are lots of reasons why teams loss games in an evenly matched tournament.   One of those reasons might have been the emotional impact of one or two players leaving the team.   We happened to meet and talk to a CA Brick coach who knew our son from "in house" play years ago.   Even a kid of who might not play much is still part of team and there are attachments among the kids.  Despite the outcome of this event, the best kids in California hold their own with the best in Canada and east of  the Mississippi river.   

While in Edmonton, the St. Alberta newspaper gave a short history of the tournament.   27 years ago, a hockey dad wanted to create a tournament to push his son who went on to have a good career in the NHL.  The Brick, btw, is a major retail outlet for mattresses and appliances.    We bought our appliances for our Victoria BC house at the Brick in 2006.  The Brick tournament is an interesting glimpse into to future, if not taken too seriously, brought to you by an appliance and mattress store and other commercial sponsors. 

Our son nearly ended up as a 3rd line grinder on one of the '05 PWAAA teams.   For better or worse, he is a "personality player" who is a risk taker.  Kids and adults learn by taking risks and we encourage it in our son on the ice and classroom.   But these win-oriented teams accept risk taking only by a handful of their "personality players."  The structural problem with this approach is that pre-puberty hockey stars may not dominate years later otherwise NHL teams could just draft Brick players.   While waiting for my wife to finish shopping at the W. Edmonton mall, two Brick teams walked by us for their dry land.  Hardly any player on either team even came up to the shoulder's of our '05 son.    They looked like mites.   It reminded him and me how much kids change in a year let alone 3-5 years.

The Gretzky camp was one of our best hockey experiences ever.   In part, we decided that when our son is 18, he needs more memories that just hockey arenas and an assortment of coaches, good and not so good.  So we have been traveling through beautiful Western Canada and will continue to do so.  The Gretzky camp also creates a wonderful atmosphere for families and kids.   

From a hockey perspective, it is interesting that the Gretzky camp coaches, including two NHL scouts, recognized something more than a 3rd line grinder in our son.    In the scrimmage at the end of the camp, our son's team came back and won 9-8 in a shoot out.   He felt like an integral part of the victory.  That win and the celebration was just as joyful and authentic as any tournament win and who knows, maybe as emotionally satisfying as a Brick championship.  The difference is about "bragging rights."   The Brick game we watched was at a more consistently good level than the mixed PW, BN, and Midget kids at the Gretzky camp but the older kids, including a remarkable 11 year old Canadian girl, were generally better as they should be.   The kids at the Gretzky camp seemed to have more fun than kids I have observed at the '05 Brick tryouts or the elite PWAAA Carmen Starr this spring and maybe better memories in 5 or 10 years.   What really matters for our sons and daughters, in the moment, and years later?   

In that context, our son was a PWAA last year, a PWAAA this spring, to a PWA
this coming season.  Our final decision reflected the best coaching fit our our son.  The number of A's reflects quality of competition in practice and games but is otherwise not so important.


Awesome Perspective!

skates

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Re: PWAA 2016-17
« Reply #132 on: July 09, 2016, 05:15:09 PM »
Great Prespective! However, Thr. only way it will ever be a true Brick team is if an organization sponsors it and pays for one player and one parent to participate. Then they will get the best of the best and not the richest of the rich! Brick should be selected by the stats just like other sports all star teams are picked.

rocket

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Re: PWAA 2016-17
« Reply #133 on: July 09, 2016, 09:09:08 PM »
Ah, there are the idiots! Was presently surprised at the Brick posts until the last two. Pick a team based solely on stats? Lol, please. You'd be the parent that leaves the Brick because your 40 goal scorer during the SCAHA season isn't getting ice time because he doesn't pass and can't score.
And makeawish? That grammar screams of either someone from French Canada with their nose in the air or Zamboni Driver (RIP), but even he wouldn't come up with the asinine comments regarding California hockey.
Really enjoyed reading the other comments though!

skates

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Re: PWAA 2016-17
« Reply #134 on: July 09, 2016, 09:17:49 PM »
Lol! Rocket your the idiot.  I wouldn't have to worry about the ice time because my kid wouldn't even be picked because he wouldnt be one of the top 20 with stats to make the team! We didn't even try out or go to the clinics. I based my opinion off of what the NHL looks for to make the team more competitive by sending the best of the best! Stop assuming that when someone posts something they are upset at something. We didn't even participate.