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Author Topic: Peewee AA 2017-2018  (Read 314936 times)

Pistonkev

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Re: Peewee AA 2017-2018
« Reply #300 on: August 15, 2017, 11:59:51 AM »
Okay can someone help me understand if I just read the July SCAHA minutes correctly regarding the Labor Day Jamboree? It says that coaches that are the evaluators and already have teams up there are not compensated? So they are kidding right? The Evaluators are the coaches? The same people who put these not so AA teams together to coat their pocket books with the crazy need the extra letter parents? This is becoming more and more of a joke.

We need to drain the swamp. Total BS

area51

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Re: Peewee AA 2017-2018
« Reply #301 on: August 15, 2017, 12:19:40 PM »
Okay can someone help me understand if I just read the July SCAHA minutes correctly regarding the Labor Day Jamboree? It says that coaches that are the evaluators and already have teams up there are not compensated? So they are kidding right? The Evaluators are the coaches? The same people who put these not so AA teams together to coat their pocket books with the crazy need the extra letter parents? This is becoming more and more of a joke.
hopefully they are not evaluating the same division as the team they coach

Pistonkev

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Re: Peewee AA 2017-2018
« Reply #302 on: August 15, 2017, 12:25:55 PM »
Okay can someone help me understand if I just read the July SCAHA minutes correctly regarding the Labor Day Jamboree? It says that coaches that are the evaluators and already have teams up there are not compensated? So they are kidding right? The Evaluators are the coaches? The same people who put these not so AA teams together to coat their pocket books with the crazy need the extra letter parents? This is becoming more and more of a joke.
hopefully they are not evaluating the same division as the team they coach

What's that matter cause they will still favor their clubs.

BlindZebras

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Re: Peewee AA 2017-2018
« Reply #303 on: August 15, 2017, 12:42:04 PM »
As long as said coaches are not allowed to offer any input on their own teams/clubs then it shouldn't be a problem, right?  If a bottom-rung team is being evaluated by coaches from different clubs, can't it still be objective?  Guess we'll have to wait and see... 8)

6607

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Re: Peewee AA 2017-2018
« Reply #304 on: August 15, 2017, 12:48:13 PM »
It can't be objective if going into the process there are already teams that are viewed as bottom rung.   Why should coaches in a division have any say in what teams make the playdowns, which is essentially what is being decided at the Jamboree. 

Hockey05

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Re: Peewee AA 2017-2018
« Reply #305 on: August 15, 2017, 01:08:12 PM »
This process re-affirms many things that have been written elsewhere on this site about the CAHA Board.  Who in there right mind could buy off on this utter nonsense? 
There is an inherent bias in the whole thing.  Up to 10 teams are not being fairly represented in this process and the overwhelming sentiment of parents with players involved in this is negative. 
Why shouldn't a 6th place team not have the right to play a team that is in 10th place on a CAHA weekend? 
No one that proposed this has a team on the bubble.  How could any coach with a team on the bubble be offered a slot on an evaluation committee? 
How are the teams being divided to play each other or have they already been given a seeding? 
I love hockey, I love watching my kid play hockey, but we've been delivered a shit sandwich and we haven't even sat down to eat yet.  Things are starting to smell pretty bad and it is going to get worse.   
« Last Edit: August 15, 2017, 02:50:52 PM by Hockey05 »

BlindZebras

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Re: Peewee AA 2017-2018
« Reply #306 on: August 15, 2017, 01:35:42 PM »
I think if they (CAHA) would have gotten rid of the two-flight system and just stuck to evaluation/relegation, they would've probably been alright.  Upper and lower flights is just a bad idea and I can't think of any other sport that does this.  As far as who the evaluators are, who better than the coaches?  CAHA?  The parents???

Hockey05

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Re: Peewee AA 2017-2018
« Reply #307 on: August 15, 2017, 02:09:28 PM »
I think if they (CAHA) would have gotten rid of the two-flight system and just stuck to evaluation/relegation, they would've probably been alright.  Upper and lower flights is just a bad idea and I can't think of any other sport that does this.  As far as who the evaluators are, who better than the coaches?  CAHA?  The parents???


Good point on coaches being evaluators. 


This could have been labeled at the CAHA Labor Day Kickoff Classic.  There are numerous formats that could have been implemented which include divisions, a two lose relegation or others.  The better teams would have found each other and lower level teams would have had at least one game against similar competition.  Everyone would have been excited for this type of a tournament.  It could have been promoted as a celebration of tier AA hockey and a fundraiser to promote youth hockey.  In the fine print of the tournament there could have been information that teams were also being evaluated for possible relegation to A...   Instead we are all heading to San Jose for 50 minute run time games in which seasons hang in the balance.  It is worse than traveling out of state for a mite cross ice jamboree. 

Avcadet

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Re: Peewee AA 2017-2018
« Reply #308 on: August 15, 2017, 02:24:34 PM »
I think if they (CAHA) would have gotten rid of the two-flight system and just stuck to evaluation/relegation, they would've probably been alright.  Upper and lower flights is just a bad idea and I can't think of any other sport that does this.  As far as who the evaluators are, who better than the coaches?  CAHA?  The parents???
How about bringing in experienced coaches from outside of California. Thinking maybe College, Hockey minors, or experienced AAA level from Eastern or Canadian clubs. People are already throwing lots of money into this whole process so why not a few more bucks and pay these folks to evaluate.

BlindZebras

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Re: Peewee AA 2017-2018
« Reply #309 on: August 15, 2017, 02:35:39 PM »
Speaking of which, has anybody received a bill on how much these shenanigans are gonna cost?

Pistonkev

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Re: Peewee AA 2017-2018
« Reply #310 on: August 15, 2017, 03:05:12 PM »
Speaking of which, has anybody received a bill on how much these shenanigans are gonna cost?

As I recall it's 900.00 per team.

ABCDE

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Re: Peewee AA 2017-2018
« Reply #311 on: August 15, 2017, 10:24:25 PM »
I agree with BlindZebras in that if they dropped the two-flight system, it might've be ok.  And Hockey05 has a great idea of the Labor Day Kickoff Classic.  We've absolutely been given a shit sandwich, paid a shitload for it, and are expected to smile as we swallow!  We've all seen teams win their Labor Day tourneys and piss the bed the rest of the season.  And we've seen teams with a terrible showing at Labor Day finish strong end of season.  You can definitely identify teams that should drop a letter on Labor Day weekend but to screw teams by putting them in 2nd flight is crap.  Hell, I think my kid and I would rather drop a letter than play in 2nd flight. And once we're screwed over this great Labor Day, we get fed another shit sandwich with the first place 1st tier team getting a pass on playdowns?  WTF???  It's anyone's game in the playdowns!  Or at least it was. 

skates

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Re: Peewee AA 2017-2018
« Reply #312 on: August 16, 2017, 05:26:51 AM »
I think if they (CAHA) would have gotten rid of the two-flight system and just stuck to evaluation/relegation, they would've probably been alright.  Upper and lower flights is just a bad idea and I can't think of any other sport that does this.  As far as who the evaluators are, who better than the coaches?  CAHA?  The parents???
I agree. Get rid of the 2 bracket process. You are either an AA team or an A team. Evaluate and drop teams that are not AA. CAHA just made a new level AA- or A+ or A-. Not sure where the team would fit in at. Do this for all the A levels too because I am sure there are some teams that are not even A level.   But don't do it in one Labor Day weekend mini tournament. Base it off the scores during preseason games or a CAHA weekend. Come on this is not rocket science!

Pistonkev

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Re: Peewee AA 2017-2018
« Reply #313 on: August 16, 2017, 07:01:08 AM »
I think if they (CAHA) would have gotten rid of the two-flight system and just stuck to evaluation/relegation, they would've probably been alright.  Upper and lower flights is just a bad idea and I can't think of any other sport that does this.  As far as who the evaluators are, who better than the coaches?  CAHA?  The parents???
I agree. Get rid of the 2 bracket process. You are either an AA team or an A team. Evaluate and drop teams that are not AA. CAHA just made a new level AA- or A+ or A-. Not sure where the team would fit in at. Do this for all the A levels too because I am sure there are some teams that are not even A level.   But don't do it in one Labor Day weekend mini tournament. Base it off the scores during preseason games or a CAHA weekend. Come on this is not rocket science!


Let's call the 2nd Bracket, "The Desperate Parent Bracket". Your kids team isn't really a AA Team but we will let you keep that extra A for status! At least we will keep your money coming in that you wanted to spend. Time to pay for those extra lessons so your team can be 1st place in the 2nd bracket in hopes to make that one play off spot. Just think the teams in the 2nd bracket, the coaches are going to make a fortune.


What makes you think CAHA will put the best teams in the top flight? CAHA is run by a few clubs those teams will get the free pass.

Miss My 48080

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Re: Peewee AA 2017-2018
« Reply #314 on: August 16, 2017, 12:44:54 PM »
We have only been in SoCal for a couple seasons now so I am not all that familiar with the inner-workings of CAHA or SCAHA. As I read some of the posts here I thought is very interesting that we can all look at the same issue and see it so differently.  For example, Skates said, "Let's call the 2nd Bracket, "The Desperate Parent Bracket". Your kids team isn't really a AA Team but we will let you keep that extra A for status!"

I can see how some might see it that way but I don't. As a matter of fact, most of that parents on my kid's AA team would rather drop to A than play "2nd tier AA" if that's where we find ourselves come Labor Day. Desperate parents? Hardly. Our group is quite down-to-earth and logical.

My guess is that the CAHA decision-makers got in a room and said we need to find a way to keep the AA division strong and to weed out the weaker teams. Fine. They initially decided they would be more proactive and force the weaker teams to drop to A.

A few club presidents probably argued that, dropping a team to a lower division would void the LOI and they did not want to do that. They did not want to run the risk that kids would leave if the team dropped.

In response, CAHA came up with this "unconventional" flight-within-a-tier scheme to address the fears of the club presidents. Their reasoning was that being placed in the 2nd tier of AA does not really constitute a drop in divisions so the LOIs remain valid. Nobody gets a release.   

I would also suspect that there are clubs out there with AAA teams, or clubs that are trying to get AAA teams, that have been told by CAHA that they must have a certain number of AA teams before they can have a AAA program. This, in my limited view, is yet another reason why the clubs don't want to drop an AA team.

Additionally, and I could be wrong on this, but when did CAHA announce this scheme? Was it before of after tryouts? If I had more time I could do some research, but the announcement on the CAHA website is dated July 12th. It seems to me this was well after tryouts. Perhaps parents on the bubble teams would have made different choices had they been made aware of the new scheme.

I am also concerned about the evaluators. Maybe I am being a simpleton here, but perhaps the scoreboard should be the evaluator. Would it be a reach to suggest the teams that actually win games are better than those that lose games? This isn't figure skating. We actually have points in our sport. My guess is the evaluators will be there to make sure no team has an opportunity to keep an NHL-affiliated team out of Flight 1.

Bottom line, I feel stuck. I have no problem with my kid playing A in his first season of checking. I actually suggested he play A but he wanted to tryout for the AA team with his buddies and he ended up making it. I could have over-ruled him but it was a tough evening. He made the team and was very happy. I didn't want to take that from him. If the team decided to move to A I would be thrilled.

Bottom line, playing is A is fine if that's where the team needs to be. CAHA demands clubs have a certain number of AA teams to keep or be granted an AAA team. Clubs would probably consider dropping the team but can't because it could jeopardize AAA status as well as void the LOI of all the players.

If CAHA had the will, and the strength to stand up for what is right, they would drop these silly rules and simply place teams where they rightly belong. Without the AAA implications and the LOI issue, we'd have a much better way of being honest about a team's real ability.

Just my two cents.