This Community is For Sale - For more information contact: admin@calhockey.com

Author Topic: Peewee AA 2017-2018  (Read 315008 times)

lcadad

  • AHL
  • *****
  • Posts: 540
  • LR Justice +151/-121
Re: Peewee AA 2017-2018
« Reply #330 on: August 18, 2017, 07:01:19 PM »
It is what it is regarding how the upper and lower grouping is going to be determined. What if they would have done something like this for Pee Wee AA?


There are 10 clubs declaring AA teams of which 6 clubs declared 2 teams. For those 6 clubs, they play a best 2 out of 3 between their two teams. The winner is in the top group and the loser goes to the lower group.


There are two scenarios for those clubs with only 1 team. Scenario 1 is to automatically put them into the top group. This would ensure each club was represented in the upper group of 10 teams while the lower has 6 teams. Scenario 2 is have them play a mini-tournament with the two lowest scoring teams assigned to the lower group. This would establish the upper and lower both at 8 teams.





The big clubs would never go along with this, because traditionally, they have at least one team that is playing up with the assumption it will go AAA the year following when they are minor.   


Sometimes those teams are competitive, but often they are not.  The club looks at it as seasoning, and can justify a losing season by playing in age group tournaments where they often fare well enough to keep everyone happy.  They justify this practice with the argument that they would beat all the other Squirt teams, and so it doesn't really matter if they lose to the older kids.  So long as SCAHA & CAHA allow them to do this, you can't really blame them for taking advantage of what the system allows.


There are a couple of those teams that will be playing in the Peewee AA division this year, I believe, just as there was at least one last year.  That team had a pedigree having won Scaha Squirt A when they were a minor year team, but even they had some 04/05 mix-ins at Peewee AA from my recollection. 


I'm not sure that there's an '07 team that can make the same claim, but again, until the games start getting played, I hesitate to make any predictions. We will all see soon enough.  One does have to wonder how a season playing in the 2nd Tier might effect the conventional wisdom of this tradition of playing up in preparation for AAA. 


That might seem like a tacit endorsement of this new system, but I want to be clear that I think it's terrible, and I'm disappointed that clubs didn't stand up to the board and vote against it.

Icelife

  • Squirt
  • **
  • Posts: 68
  • LR Justice +6/-4
Re: Peewee AA 2017-2018
« Reply #331 on: August 18, 2017, 08:06:24 PM »
Still find it hard to battle kids who are 5ft 5 up and almost 30-40 lbs heavier  when you are barely 4 ft 10/ 5 ft. You have those bigger kids with speed and skill and not sure how they compete unless they play dirty and draw the penalties on the unsuspecting tall kid because the smaller one falls during a battle. It just isn't fair to the kids who are age appropriate and get penalized for the stupid penalties as such because they can't stay on their feet.

Let's all remember, these are kids!

trans4761

  • NHL
  • ******
  • Posts: 1016
  • LR Justice +286/-342
Re: Peewee AA 2017-2018
« Reply #332 on: August 18, 2017, 09:22:33 PM »
It is what it is regarding how the upper and lower grouping is going to be determined. What if they would have done something like this for Pee Wee AA?


There are 10 clubs declaring AA teams of which 6 clubs declared 2 teams. For those 6 clubs, they play a best 2 out of 3 between their two teams. The winner is in the top group and the loser goes to the lower group.


There are two scenarios for those clubs with only 1 team. Scenario 1 is to automatically put them into the top group. This would ensure each club was represented in the upper group of 10 teams while the lower has 6 teams. Scenario 2 is have them play a mini-tournament with the two lowest scoring teams assigned to the lower group. This would establish the upper and lower both at 8 teams.





The big clubs would never go along with this, because traditionally, they have at least one team that is playing up with the assumption it will go AAA the year following when they are minor.   


Sometimes those teams are competitive, but often they are not.  The club looks at it as seasoning, and can justify a losing season by playing in age group tournaments where they often fare well enough to keep everyone happy.  They justify this practice with the argument that they would beat all the other Squirt teams, and so it doesn't really matter if they lose to the older kids.  So long as SCAHA & CAHA allow them to do this, you can't really blame them for taking advantage of what the system allows.


There are a couple of those teams that will be playing in the Peewee AA division this year, I believe, just as there was at least one last year.  That team had a pedigree having won Scaha Squirt A when they were a minor year team, but even they had some 04/05 mix-ins at Peewee AA from my recollection. 


I'm not sure that there's an '07 team that can make the same claim, but again, until the games start getting played, I hesitate to make any predictions. We will all see soon enough.  One does have to wonder how a season playing in the 2nd Tier might effect the conventional wisdom of this tradition of playing up in preparation for AAA. 


That might seem like a tacit endorsement of this new system, but I want to be clear that I think it's terrible, and I'm disappointed that clubs didn't stand up to the board and vote against it.
The Pedigrees (JKs) did not win Sq A that year. It was won by the  SS (Super Sandys) (JDs) after a scare in the semis.  It will be interesting next year to see the SS, even though i believe many of the original SSs are gone, in Bantams.  Most kids that are dominant in Sqs end up being normal players.  It's safe to say that at least 60% of the lil Gretzkys on the 06 and 07 (LOL) Tier teams will be cast aside in a few years. Many parents will be doing their best Al Bundy impersonation for their 10 year olds.......then it's OFF TO SHOE COLLEGE  !!

lcadad

  • AHL
  • *****
  • Posts: 540
  • LR Justice +151/-121
Re: Peewee AA 2017-2018
« Reply #333 on: August 18, 2017, 10:05:45 PM »
Trans you are talking about the '05 year, while I'm talking about the '06 Ducks which won Scaha Squirt A.  Of course, as par for the course at that age, they did lose games, including the state championship game, even though they had beat up the norcal team that won it earlier in the year. 


I intentionally avoid specifics because that soon can lead to talking about individual kids, which I don't want to do here.  That team has continued to do very well nationally. 


I'm real familiar with the SS's and the JK team and their ongoing battles, including the movement that happened this year.  With that said, I agree that real hockey starts when you can check people. 


I also have seen first hand the flat out incompetent level of refereeing that occurs here.  My understanding of the situation is that the refs here have been taught to prioritize "safety" and don't seem to really understand that "no check" is not "no contact", nor do they seem to understand that there's an entire book full of "legal body contact" that allows for what is essentially checking along the boards.


My kid played in Carmen Starr this year and something pretty funny happened.   We watched a really exciting game, where the two teams got after each other, and there were almost no calls made.  It was fast and physical and within the rules, and made for some pretty exciting Peewee hockey.   A few times kids going for pucks bumped into each during puck battles, and the refs let them play despite some parents who were clearly uncomfortable having apparently never seen actual hockey being played. 


At one point a kid complained to the ref, who essentially said to the kid:  "play hockey."


After the game, we found out that the refs thought it was a Bantam game.      :P


We also managed to get to a semi last year in an out of state tournament, and the opponent who was a Chicago area team came out and played what apparently is standard hockey in their area.  They were crushing our kids along the boards, and engaging the puck carriers in ways that would have resulted in probably 5 penalties a period in LA, but there were no penalties called.  It took our kids a period to realize that this was how you play in other places, and they woke up and started to battle about halfway into the 2nd period. 


LA kids are conditioned by status quo of reffing here to avoid contact, but that is not how the game is reffed in a lot of the other hockey markets.  I wish it was better, but I've realized you have to put up with a lot of penalties that really aren't penalties at this age group. 








Landshark

  • Peewee
  • ***
  • Posts: 238
  • LR Justice +77/-47

Teemu8

  • Peewee
  • ***
  • Posts: 222
  • LR Justice +32/-18
Re: Peewee AA 2017-2018
« Reply #335 on: August 19, 2017, 03:01:42 PM »
Do have access to the Bantam schedule??

6607

  • Midget
  • ****
  • Posts: 359
  • LR Justice +36/-53
  • So how about it boys? Look like hockey to you?
Re: Peewee AA 2017-2018
« Reply #336 on: August 20, 2017, 09:31:50 AM »
Teemu, the schedules are available over the CAHA website.

Icelife

  • Squirt
  • **
  • Posts: 68
  • LR Justice +6/-4
Re: Peewee AA 2017-2018
« Reply #337 on: August 21, 2017, 02:22:58 PM »
Just curious how teams are looking as they start scrimmaging?
Let's all remember, these are kids!

socalhockeydad

  • Peewee
  • ***
  • Posts: 128
  • LR Justice +31/-57
Re: Peewee AA 2017-2018
« Reply #338 on: August 21, 2017, 02:46:19 PM »
Yesterday the Kings 05 team beat the flyers in a close game and the Bears lost to the Kings AAA 06 team 6-3. That is all I heard.

lcadad

  • AHL
  • *****
  • Posts: 540
  • LR Justice +151/-121
Re: Peewee AA 2017-2018
« Reply #339 on: August 21, 2017, 06:28:40 PM »
Now that the schedule is out, I noted a couple of things.

First off, one of the ID teams has disappeared, so that makes the count, 18 contenders.

Second, it seems clear that the arbitrary 10 team in flight-1 cutoff is very likely to make for some controversy.  Since CAHA can choose to go with a top flight of anywhere from 8-10 teams, with no clear cut criteria, this could get ugly fast.

Given what I know of the composition of the teams, and making no allowance for sleeper teams who may be better than anyone knows, I came up with 11 teams I expect to be battling for 10 spots.  I wasn't sure previously, but it now looks quite likely that a competitive Flight-1 team could end up relegated to Flight 2. 


« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 06:33:36 PM by lcadad »

6607

  • Midget
  • ****
  • Posts: 359
  • LR Justice +36/-53
  • So how about it boys? Look like hockey to you?
Re: Peewee AA 2017-2018
« Reply #340 on: August 22, 2017, 06:54:59 AM »
It used to be that teams qualified for the playdowns by competing against every AA team on the ice in real games over the course of the regular season.  Teams that demonstrated the highest level of success made the playdowns.  Now, this is all going to be done on the basis of pre season speculation better suited for this board than CAHA.

The only way to use the Jamboree to flight teams is to engage in speculation that because A beat B and B beat C, A must be better than C.  Apart from that, we are back to politics, preconceived ideas about minor year or play up teams, and guesswork. 

All of that is fun to toss around on the boards, but its a terrible way to make decisions.  There is absolutely no way to guarantee that the coach/evaluators are any more informed about the teams than we are.  Skates, for example, was tossing around that OC2 was mostly PWB players, when it is mostly 05 kids moving up from PWA.  What if evaluators are no different?  Even worse, what happens if we get one Duck, one Kings and one Sharks representative.  Heck, if Europe can be divided up on a cocktail napkin so can PWAA.

11 teams, by the way, presents the interesting question of how to flight teams 9, 10 and 11, given that the teams that finish 9th and 10th in Flight 1 will be done and the team that finishes 1st in Flight 2 get a play-in game...   


Icelife

  • Squirt
  • **
  • Posts: 68
  • LR Justice +6/-4
Re: Peewee AA 2017-2018
« Reply #341 on: August 23, 2017, 12:28:56 PM »
Any thoughts about how the Jamboree schedule was built this far?
Let's all remember, these are kids!

6607

  • Midget
  • ****
  • Posts: 359
  • LR Justice +36/-53
  • So how about it boys? Look like hockey to you?
Re: Peewee AA 2017-2018
« Reply #342 on: August 23, 2017, 02:18:01 PM »
There are no games (1) between San Diego teams; (2) between Nor Cal teams; and (3) between the 1 and 2 teams of the same club.  I assume the logic is that these games could be played locally after the Jamboree, if necessary.

Icelife

  • Squirt
  • **
  • Posts: 68
  • LR Justice +6/-4
Re: Peewee AA 2017-2018
« Reply #343 on: August 28, 2017, 03:50:20 PM »
Was at KHS yesterday for a practice and before hand caught some of the scrimmage with Kings and Ducks and wow! Great game! Very competitive and lots of action to say the least. Looks like the refs let things get more physical than last season. Saw some really talented skaters and the speed and size on some of those kids was incredible at that age. Really enjoyed it!
Let's all remember, these are kids!

6607

  • Midget
  • ****
  • Posts: 359
  • LR Justice +36/-53
  • So how about it boys? Look like hockey to you?
Re: Peewee AA 2017-2018
« Reply #344 on: August 30, 2017, 01:24:05 PM »
So do ejections/match penalties carry over from exhibitions to the Jamboree?