Peewee AA 2017-2018

[trans4761]

A lot more would want to stay together and play at Squirt, and if you are so incredibly good, then get started on your AAA travels early and scrimmage teams that want to scrimmage you.  When my son was a 2nd year Squirt the play up thing was in full swing, and of those parents I knew whose kids did it, not one said it was a good decision by the end of the season.  There are more than a few parents around who can tell you they thought it actually hurt their kids development, because they were forced to battle uphill all year and change the way they played to try and minimize the downside of facing older kids. 

The '05 Ducks coached by Sandy did very well playing up as squirts in AA and made it to play downs.  The Vachon, Jr Kings competed but missed the playoffs.  I don't have a problem with either of those teams playing up.  They would have schooled the squirt A division.  But that is an argument we had on this board years ago.

It will be interesting next year to see how the old SS  handle contact next year. They are a talented group of kids.  But I remember playing them a few years ago that they were not too comfortable getting hit.  Complain ing at every slight bump and diving is not going to fly next year.  One advantage is that they will be playing AAA.  Tends not to be as much contact. My opinion is that they wouldl struggle more with a skilled AA team than with a AAA team.
JMO

[6607]

GSE 1 is the obvious favorite against the Flyers.  But then again GSE was the favorite last year and lost to Bickley's 9 seed.  GSE 1 also lost a game to the Blackhawks this year...

I am not against play up teams in AA.  Don't see how any team's season was ruined by that this season at least.  From the outside looking in, I think the Flyers developed a lot as a team over this season,  And I rarely saw the 2 minutes for being bigger call made in our games against Kings 2.  For next season, we keep hearing that neither the Ducks nor Kings will have  an 08 AA team, so it may be a moot issue going forward.

[lcadad]

Your team played the Kings 07 team 4 times.  Came from one goal behind in the last 5 minutes to win 5-4.  Won the 2nd one 6-4.  TIED the 3rd one 4-4.  Won the 4th in a blowout.  3 out of 4 games the 07's played your team very close.  Good luck against GSE1 you are going to need it.  I hope there is something in it for them.

I pretty much expected this response from you. 

If getting out shot 2-1 in just about every game is close, and spending shifts at a time having our kids cycle the puck in your zone is indicative of competitiveness, then you are right, those were very close games.   I don't blame your team for this, but my observation of the officiating in these mismatch games is that it's inept and focused on protecting your kids.  Half the penalties called on us weren't penalties.  Our kids expect it and play the games accordingly, and get penalized anyways.   In the 4-4 tie, I seem to recall that all your goals were on PP's or most of em. 

When our core '05team plays your team, there is no real winning for us.  If we win, well we are bigger/older/stronger and expected to win.  If we lose or if it's "a close game" in your parlance, then we lose.  It's lose/lose for us.  If you were honest, you would acknowledge that the 6-4 game was in no way close.  We controlled that game from start to finish and there was never a minute of it where the outcome was in question.  The last game was a blow out to use your parlance.  We soundly outplayed you in the first game, and barely escaped with a 5-4 win.  Kuddos to your kids for making the most of their chances.   

As I stated previously, we lost in Silver sticks to Kings1 4-1 and it was a beat down where we spent 2/3rds of the game in our zone chasing them and holding on by our fingernails.  We lost by more to Gulls1 in the same tournament and the game was a lot closer.  The score doesn't always tell the story, and if you were honest you would admit that.  Most of our games vs you were you holding on by your fingernails, in my opinion.  And given the age difference, that is what we all should have expected.  If Flighting had been fair, probably you would have had a chance to face your rivals, but we know how that turned out.

It's my opinion that teams playing up is usually a one sided proposition that benefits the play up team.  I respect your right to disagree although you are inherently biased in favor of a policy that benefits you, but has a cost to many of your opponents.  It's not a personal attack on your kid. 

Your team more than held their own in Flight2.  My observation is that you have a great nucleus and your kids have already learned how to play a sound fundamental system.  We don't need to go over their skill level, and I wish you nothing but the best in AAA.  They battle and do a lot of things well.  You should be proud and hopefully you are.

At the start of the season, I felt a reasonable goal for our team was to make the play downs.  Then the Flighting system was put into place and doing that became a thread-the-needle exercise for us.  Our kids accomplished that, and then some.  We can take our victory lap and say "I told you so" but having gone through it, I am articulating my views because I would like to see the system improved so that other teams don't face what we did. We will never get back the chance to play the Flight1 games we deserved to play. 

My kid played AA last season, and the pressure to be competitive was enormous.  Flighting has changed the dynamic entirely and while you don't need to care about it, teams like yours that are just "passing through" on the way to AAA minor don't pay the price in the long term, when compared to those of us who are focused on AA. 

As for the GSE game, if we are not up to their standards, I guess we can join the rest of AA this year and still respect ourselves in the morning, but I'm sure our kids will play better knowing they have the full support of the parents of our Flight2 opponents.  I would think that you would be pulling for us to upset people so you could point to our tie game and say "look how good we are, we actually tied that team and lost to em by 1 goal!!!!!" but I guess that is not your style.

[Ziegler]

Just look at Ducks 2 in AA. Did not make playoffs but that should not have been the goal. If they played A or Flight 2 they would have been bored and unchallenged. That team was the definition of progress and development. That team was playing good hockey toward the end which will benefit them next year

[6607]

With respect to Ducks 2, it is not accurate to say that they would not have been challenged in Flight 2.  The Ice Dogs and OC2 each challenged beat Ducks 2, and I doubt that Ducks 2 would have won a game, let alone a season series against the Flyers. That being said, they did develop as a result of their placement in Flight 1 and finished up strong.  Best of luck in AAA!

[Hockeyking]

I think the Ducks2 has an interesting year. We played them twice and won both games but in each game they gave our boys a challenge. The games were fast pace, physical and well coached. I heard that this team might stay as a PWAA team, anyone else here this? It would be an interesting move and would definitely build the boys confidence. All rumors or any truth?

[#4BobbyOrr]

If getting out shot 2-1 in just about every game is close, and spending shifts at a time having our kids cycle the puck in your zone is indicative of competitiveness, then you are right, those were very close games.   I don't blame your team for this, but my observation of the officiating in these mismatch games is that it's inept and focused on protecting your kids.  Half the penalties called on us weren't penalties.  Our kids expect it and play the games accordingly, and get penalized anyways.   In the 4-4 tie, I seem to recall that all your goals were on PP's or most of em. 

When our core '05team plays your team, there is no real winning for us.  If we win, well we are bigger/older/stronger and expected to win.  If we lose or if it's "a close game" in your parlance, then we lose.  It's lose/lose for us.  If you were honest, you would acknowledge that the 6-4 game was in no way close.  We controlled that game from start to finish and there was never a minute of it where the outcome was in question.  The last game was a blow out to use your parlance.  We soundly outplayed you in the first game, and barely escaped with a 5-4 win.  Kuddos to your kids for making the most of their chances.   

This isn't figure skating. There are no style points.  There is only one measure of a game that counts - the final score.  That's why they keep it.  And the fact is that as much as you may have outplayed us or out shot us or gotten jobbed by the refs (not true btw) or spent time in our zone at the end of the day in two of the four games that our teams played each other you either couldn't put us away or barely put us away.  We scored 13 goals against you in 4 games.  That's 3.25 gpg.   According to the myhockeyranking ratings you should beat us by about 2.75 goals when we play. In the first 3 games we played, you beat us by an average of 1 and you gave up 4 goals in each game.  How is it a lose for you if it's a tie or a close win? Does it hurt your pride? A win is win. You get the 2 points. We played you four games, tied one and lost three.  I am not claiming that any of those are wins for us or moral victories, just that there were some close games. According to the scoreboard. Which is the best measure of how close a game is.

[lcadad]

Just look at Ducks 2 in AA. Did not make playoffs but that should not have been the goal. If they played A or Flight 2 they would have been bored and unchallenged. That team was the definition of progress and development. That team was playing good hockey toward the end which will benefit them next year

I appreciate your Candor Ziegler.  This is exactly my point in regards to the essential issue with a lot of play up teams.  You are just looking for competition that challenges your kids because you don't measure the success of your season by the actual league you play in.  You are one of the first parents I've ever seen admit as much.


Your team objectively should have been in Flight2 given your results and losses to Flight2 teams.  At least on the scoresheet you also had a close game vs. Kings2 and you will certainly be playing each other frequently in the next year.  As in my conversation with BobbyOrr, I see how your team benefits -- just not how the rank and file AA teams benefit from playing your team.  With that said, lots of people have talked to me privately about this, and there are cases to be made for some teams like the '06 and '05 years, pre-flighting system, where the teams were actually able to make the CAHA playoffs. 


Usually those people keep saying "it would be a waste of their time to play teams their own age."  I find that funny because the season and reputation of your teams is measured not by your success in the league you play in, but rather by your My Hockey Rankings rating, where you do play kids in your own age group. 


Regardless, I don't see the practice going away soon, even if I question the rationalization and belief that entire teams benefit from playing older kids.  Certainly there are always a few exceptional kids beyond the curve, but that predicts absolutely nothing in my experience.  For some kids the process can be highly negative, and effect confidence and discourage creativity.  A lot of that comes down to the coaching you are getting, and how your kid handles things. 

[#4BobbyOrr]

Here is a good perspective about playing against older "kids"

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/juniors/usntdp-usa-hockey-set-to-dominate/

[Puck Yeah]

Here is a good perspective about playing against older "kids"

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/juniors/usntdp-usa-hockey-set-to-dominate/

Not the least bit comparable to Squirts and PWs playing up. 

[#4BobbyOrr]

Here is a good perspective about playing against older "kids"

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/juniors/usntdp-usa-hockey-set-to-dominate/

Not the least bit comparable to Squirts and PWs playing up.

this quote is relatable though

“In so many parts of our culture, parents try to shield their kids and choose safe routes. They want to protect them from adversity or failure. The real risk to developing hockey talent is not making things too hard — it’s making things too easy. And we found that the young men in this program will respond to the hard things. However much they struggle, they’ll find a way and be better for it.”

[Puck Yeah]

Key Words:  Young Men

[cuthecrap]

Here is a good perspective about playing against older "kids"

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/juniors/usntdp-usa-hockey-set-to-dominate/

I would say on average, and they would never admit it, at least 10 players out of every ntdp roster would have chosen a different route had they known what their two years there would be like. Bottom line: the program helps team USA look better at the international level, but it doesn't necessarily develop all kids on the team.

[#4BobbyOrr]

If you have been flollowing along with this thread this week you might be interested to know that the the 07 Kings beat Valencia 5-4 this morning.  Murphy's Law or something, I guess.

[lcadad]

If you have been flollowing along with this thread this week you might be interested to know that the the 07 Kings beat Valencia 5-4 this morning.  Murphy's Law or something, I guess.

The law of kids hockey.  Careful when you poke the hockey gods.     First off, congrats to your team.  They played an excellent game, and were ready to go, and our kids were not.  Out of all the games we've played you, in my opinion that was the best your team has played us.  We did again spend about 2/3rds of the game in your zone, and the shots were 25-13, but your defensive structure was solid, and your boys buried chances when they had them.