Wave 2- PWAA

[MO-ICETIME]

But doesn't this go back to talks I've seen on this board about watering down the divisions? Nobody seemed happy with it and called for SCAHA and CAHA to put a stop to it... If families want to play T1 and make that drive.. go for it. Clubs can't be trusted to make the call for AAA teams.. heck even at A they can't be trusted to make the proper call.


Let's say they allow it and it gets watered down. Is it in the best interest for development for true AAA players to play in a watered down division? The answer just can't be allow whoever wants a AAA team to have one can it? That's my question.

You would think...but the answer seems to be no.


How did the Bears not get a bid ?   How come the Wave Girls team not get a bid ??


I for one would prefer to put the decision (If my boys are ever good enough) at my discretion, NOT CAHA (JKs/JDs) making that decision for me.  CAHA scapegoat was my good friend BF (BF Rules).....btw he still owes me $$

Haha! How much??


Here's the thing... If your boy is good enough he can play AAA, but what if the team isn't?

[lcadad]

The Bears did not get denied a AAA team.  In fact, there is a mechanism to make the case that you can field a viable AAA team.  The Bears just didn't want to do it, and this was coming off a year where they had 2 teams that actually made the playoffs in their division out of the whole club. 

With that said, I talked to people at the Bears about that at the time, and they supported the idea of limiting the AAA teams so as not to "water down" AAA, and assuming a trickle down factor, AA.  They also didn't want to spend the time "putting together the book"  that would be required to apply for an AAA bid.  So there is a way to do it if your club can make the case in advance that they have the numbers and quality of players to warrant a AAA designation.  It's just not easy nor a slam dunk.


However, there is also a way for a Tier 2 team to move up to Tier 1 after the season has started.  The Deadline for that is September 15th this year, so if some team emerges that is so stacked they absolutely must move to AAA, there are provisions for that to happen. 

There are plenty of kids who could play on AAA teams in my opinion, but it is not viable nor of interest to the families.  AAA in SoCal borders on silly in my opinion when compared to other locales.  In the future, perhaps it will mature to the point where there are 5 or 6 clubs with a AAA franchise, all within an hour of each other.  Then it might be something worth getting upset about. 

[deeznuts]

 Still a lot of talk about the Wave 2- PWAA going on.
 
 Now that the season has officially ended I’m going to throw light on what I saw this season because most of what I am
 hearing from people who are outside of the team are overblown lies being propagated by bitter, self serving parents who voluntarily QUIT the team with damaged egos.

COACHING

Coaching was good, not great, but good.  There was a strong emphasis on individual play and skills vs. taking a whole team approach to the games which meant the team pretty much lived or died by the sword most of the season.
 
 The head coach treated the kids with respect and he really did seem to care about all of them.  There was some favoritism going on (some justified and some not), but by in large I believe he had good intentions from beginning to end.
 
 Assistant coaches were fine and no major complaints.  The Manager was new to the job, but she worked hard to make the best of the situation.
 
KIDS
 
This was an excellent group of kids many of which were all put on this team having spent little time playing together when the season started (it consisted of mostly 2005 kids, but there were several 2006 and 2004 kids as well).  They fought and played hard all season to make and earn a playoff spot only to have it stripped away from them 4 days before CAHA playoffs (several days after they were told they were in and satisfied PDR according to CAHA).   
 
They made the playoffs being down kids the entire season due kids quitting, so I give them a lot of credit for fighting and making it despite the loss of players.

PDR ISSUE

I’ll start this by saying the only reason this was an issue to begin with was because CAHA changed the rules this season to a 50%.  I have been told by several people this may have been done to punish certain coaches that were at the WAVE to try and ‘block’ them from being able to field AA teams which would also lesson the competition in several divisions of AA where more powerful clubs are hell bent on keeping a stranglehold.
 
 Not close to the coaches or CAHA so I don’t know all the details, but my understanding is that it was an oversight by coaching in that a rostered player did not play enough games to be eligible to satisfy the PDR matter (10 games minimum), which was the final ruling by CAHA for making this team ineligible for playoffs.  If one of those kids did not quit it would have been a non issue.
 
 I heard that CAHA did grant several PDR exceptions this season, but they most certainly would not grant this team an exception because it would not likely have worked in their favor.
 
Curiously that rule has now been magically changed back to 25% for next season, no doubt to the benefit of more powerful clubs that need it. Can't lost that Tier1 Elite league status or the wheels come off of everything.

PARENTS

Parent 1
 
Ripped kid of the team early on because his kid was not getting enough ice time and in my opinion did so in a cowardly way because it was too early in the season for lines to even be set. 
 
Parent 2
 
Ripped kid off the team (Quit) and I heard (not directly) her reasoning was her kid was not being treated fairly.
 
Did not see any of that, but that parent has been on the war path every since.

Parent 3
Ripped her kid of the team in December because she claimed her kid was not being treated fairly. 
Moving to a back up role seemed to be the more likely reason.

It seems this parent had so much venom because her star moved to more of a semi-back up role (due to being outplayed) that her ego could not take it so she took the information she had about the added player knowing he did not actually play 10 games and complained to CAHA shortly before playoffs stating that the team was cheating.
 
 It seemed carefully planned out with one intention: To make sure that the Wave 2 kids paid the price and were removed from the playoffs.

She did not hurt the parents, she hurt the kids and she took something away from them that she could never have earned on her own.That speaks volumes for what this individual stands for and having had kids played travel for 5 years I have never seen a more vindictive move to intentionally break the heart of kids that busted tail all year (fairly) to earn a spot.

In full disclosure I’m not on the inner circle of this club or coaching staff and I have no ulterior motive for posting this other than outing what I know and giving these kids their props.

CONCLUSION
 
 - Politics dominate CAHA
 - Toxic parents can bring a whole team down, choose wisely
 - At least we earned the 8^th playoff spot, it was not gifted.

I hear (have no idea if true) that that CAHA may bar the Wave from fielding a PWAA team this upcoming season. That makes perfect sense as I’m sure the board members don’t want their special clubs to get their asses handed to them next season by a very good team who would have likely been dominant.
 
 Sure is convenient.
 

Ok Carla Nieto, whatever you say....

[Kangaroo Jack]

If Northlands post is not correct please let's hear your version of what happened. Cannot not wait to read your psycho babble!   

[deeznuts]

haha ok bud

[Kangaroo Jack]

So you want to call out someone but do not want to post a rebuttal?   

[deeznuts]

No the funny thing is that this person wants to call out parents on the team when they don't even have the facts straight. This person is known to be a liar and can be validated by LOTS of people with the club.[/size]🤥🤥🤥🤥🤥🤥🤥

[Kangaroo Jack]

Alright internet tough guy  what is the truth???  Let's hear your story! 

[Hockey_mama]

You sure are brave calling someone a liar anonymously!  Slander is a pretty serious offense. You are so sure you know the facts, why hide behind a stupid name? I am sure it matches your IQ.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Mite Dad]

The CAHA rules on this issue, which have been in effect since at least 2013, are clear:

6.3.c. "The head coach is responsible for the accuracy of the scoresheet. Inaccurate or unsigned scoresheets may result in suspensions, fines and/or forfeitures."
6.3.d.: "Players not in attendance or not able to participate in any game shall be crossed off from the list of players on all copies of the game score sheet."

Speculation about whether the failure to maintain accurate sheets was due to a mistake, misunderstanding or intentional conduct is besides the point. I tend to think that this coach had non-malicious intentions, but that doesn't really matter. The rules clearly state that if the sheets are wrong, it's on him.

Punishing kids for something that is 100% out of their control is wrong. It sucks that the kids who earned a playdowns slot on the ice were denied due to the actions of grown ups. But that's now water under the bridge.

Far more disappointing is that apparently some people want to penalize kids even more, by banning the Wave from PWAA next year and forcing kids to either go to other clubs, play down, or quit the sport. This is obscene. Who does that punish? Certainly not the Wave club, which essentially is just an extension of EWIP management.  The rink won't have any trouble replacing the revenue; they'll fill those few ice slots with something else, no problem.

No, all a suspension does is screw over kids. Kids on TWO teams (Wave PWAA2, and kids rising from Wave PWA), the latter team which had nothing to do with the offending conduct. Kids won't get to play with their friends, some won't get to stay at a club where they've played for 4-5 years, will be forced to seek roster spots at other clubs, and some will bump kids off of other teams at their new clubs. Parents will be forced to drive farther, and pay more (Wave is one of the most affordable clubs around). The end result is that some kids likely will quit the sport. And for what? To punish grown ups who didn't comply with the rules? How is this good for any kid's development or help grow the sport? What does this teach kids other than that some grown-ups are spiteful?

If CAHA believes a suspension is warranted, it ought to be assessed upon the grown-ups responsible for the conduct, NOT THE KIDS and their parents. Punishing a group of kids by banning their team for a year is a petty and stupid decision. It is also highly hypocritical given some of the FAR more awful things things done by coaches over the years, known by their clubs, that did not merit a club suspension from CAHA. Sadly, this is par for the course for some of the adults who run this sport in Southern California, who need to be reminded that they wouldn't have jobs at all but for the kids and their parents.



[Full disclosure: I don't have a kid on this team, but my kid did play with the Wave three years ago, and I personally know good kids who will be hurt by a team suspension].

[6607]

Artist, greatly respect your take on youth hockey and concern for the kids.  But, absent a sanction against the club, how will a club ever be held accountable?  Certainly, suspending a coach or even a manager has little or no impact on the club.  And there are many other things that go one each silly season that have the same type of impact on many kids.  Calder's team effectively displaced the Ontario Wave AA team last spring, for example.  Each time a coach moves with his "core" group, it leaves a lot of kids in the lurch and displaces others.  I don't direct this comment at you, but in general this board does not express a lot of sympathy for the kids left behind or displaced, and more ire is directed at SCAHA and CAHA for enforcing its rules or the parent(s)?? who "ratted" them out, than the club, coaches and adults who were complicit.  From the distance and from reading the threads about this, a lot of people sure seem to have known what was going on....

I also wonder if this sanction has that great of effect on the Wave kids that you are worried about.  Without an AAA program, there are a lot of kids on those teams, and even on Squirt A, that likely would have been going elsewhere to chase the Third A even if the Wave offered an AA program...

Anyway, would love to hear how to sanction clubs, coaches and scheming parents, without adversely impacting the kids.  Hope all of the kids  land on their feet.

[station26]

Regarding Parent 3....... Folks do your homework and ask a few questions of the coaching staff/management to see if they are going to accept a known toxin.

Conclusions (line 2)........  Accurate statement so refer back to above line to avoid this fate.

[Kangaroo Jack]

Artist, greatly respect your take on youth hockey and concern for the kids.  But, absent a sanction against the club, how will a club ever be held accountable?  Certainly, suspending a coach or even a manager has little or no impact on the club.  And there are many other things that go one each silly season that have the same type of impact on many kids.  Calder's team effectively displaced the Ontario Wave AA team last spring, for example.  Each time a coach moves with his "core" group, it leaves a lot of kids in the lurch and displaces others.  I don't direct this comment at you, but in general this board does not express a lot of sympathy for the kids left behind or displaced, and more ire is directed at SCAHA and CAHA for enforcing its rules or the parent(s)?? who "ratted" them out, than the club, coaches and adults who were complicit.  From the distance and from reading the threads about this, a lot of people sure seem to have known what was going on....

I also wonder if this sanction has that great of effect on the Wave kids that you are worried about.  Without an AAA program, there are a lot of kids on those teams, and even on Squirt A, that likely would have been going elsewhere to chase the Third A even if the Wave offered an AA program...

Anyway, would love to hear how to sanction clubs, coaches and scheming parents, without adversely impacting the kids.  Hope all of the kids  land on their feet.

Maybe they can hire your pompous ass!!  The Wave got screwed. Viva KC!! He got screwed giving back to the game he loves.  Just because of some families with nothing better to do with their sorry ass life's. 

[The Artist Formerly Known as Mite Dad]

But, absent a sanction against the club, how will a club ever be held accountable?

Fine and/or suspend the specific person within club management responsible for the conduct that CAHA found to be a rules violation.

Or fine the club itself.

Or suspend the club's CAHA voting privileges for a season. 

Or bar representatives of the club from serving on the CAHA Exec Board.

Or refuse to accept bids from the club to host CAHA weekends for a year (I realize the Wave wouldn't care about this).

Point being, there were any number of things that CAHA could have done other than tell 17 (or 34?) kids and their parents to either pay thousands of dollars to go play somewhere they don't want to play . . . or suck eggs. There are kids/families that may sit out next season (and maybe never come back to the sport) due to this. There are kids that will get bumped off teams at other clubs to make room for some Wave kids. End result is that there are going to be a less kids playing hockey next season than there would be if the Wave were allowed to field PWAA teams. To me, one kid dropping out is one too many, and should be avoided at all costs.

But as many others have noted before me, there are people involved with this sport at the youth level here in California who are more concerned about protecting their own little fiefdoms than doing what is best for ALL kids, resulting in decisions that drive families out of the state or out of the sport entirely. It is shortsighted and stupid.

Back to hibernation.

[Kangaroo Jack]

They should hire you!!! The voice of reason. Welcome back to the forum. Hope all is well.