Predictions for AA?

[Pistonkev]

This all could be solved if each club was only allowed one AA for each division. Then the best of the best kids would truly be picked. When clubs have 2 AA teams one is allways trying to play above their level.

I agree yes! Only three teams put in second flight were wronged based on what I see.


Simi
Valencia
Wada


The rest could be dropped to A

[WCHP]

This all could be solved if each club was only allowed one AA for each division. Then the best of the best kids would truly be picked. When clubs have 2 AA teams one is allways trying to play above their level.

I agree yes! Only three teams put in second flight were wronged based on what I see.


Simi
Valencia
Wada


The rest could be dropped to A

amen

[dreal]

Two years ago, when my older son played Bantam AA and his Ducks team went to Nationals.  During that season, a Kings2 AA team played a horrible SCAHA pre-season, did not win a game, and was badly outscored.  The Coach and the Club recommended that the team drop to Bantam A.  The PARENTS were furious and demanded they remain at the AA level.  The Club, who did not want to lose a group of families, relented and allowed them to play at the AA level.  As expected, their team went 0-15, scored 4 goals and gave up 129!!  We played them and they did not have a shot on goal and we stopped shooting on net halfway through the 2nd period.  I didn't think that anyone "won" in that scenario.

That was the old days.  The last few seasons, teams that are far below the average have been dropping or getting forced to drop from every level from Tier2 to BB.  There was no need for this Flight system.  It may be clearcut for Bantams this season, but I can tell you that U16 people seem to take issue with the assignments. 


In PW my kid's team played a tough schedule, had all close games and got dropped into the 2nd flight where we get to play 5 other teams, one of which we have already beaten 2x by 5 goal margins each time.  If we had simply tied a game 3-3 that we lost 3-2 (and outshot the opponent by 5 shots as well) we would probably be in the top flight.  This happened for one reason and one reason only -- politics.  Our record was 1-3.  Another top flight team was 1-3.  "That's a strong team and should be in the topflight!"  Ok.  And that team we are talking about, lost to the same team we lost to 3-2, 3-0.  The team we beat 10-5 this weekend, played another team placed in the top flight over us, by 5-3 the weekend before.  We were told that flighting was to insure competition.  When you are losing to top flight teams by 2 goals in games where the shots are roughly even, and you could have won with a bit of puck luck, your team shouldn't be put in the lower flight and ours was. 


This is a solution nobody needed to a problem that doesn't exist.  It was tried roughly 10 years ago, but nobody at CAHA has any institutional knowledge.  I'm a bit tired of people talking about these extreme situations (OMG a team beat another team by 8 goals!).  I predict there will be any number of lopsided victories in the upper flight this year.  Will they double down to 4 flights next year?  It's kids hockey, these are games, it's a team game, there are geographical issues and size issues that benefit some clubs and handicap others, but at the end of the day, every single player in the NHL can tell you about games they played as a kid where the team they played on got spanked, or conversely beat another team badly.  It is not an important issue, it is part of life.  If this system was such a great idea, how come we don't see it anyplace else?

I'm not sure what you mean when you refer to the "old days?"  The season before last seems like recent memory but nonetheless.  Last season, I had the fortune of my younger son participating in Bantam AA as a minor birth year team.  They were a group of skilled players that entered Bantams a bit wide eyed and scared.  By the end of the year, they were playing better but no manner of work would have propelled them into the upper echelon of the Bantam AA Division.  When looking at last year's CAHA schedule (No SCAHA games last season), I looked at the teams that finished the season between spots 12-18 (Possible Lower Tier).  Here are some combined stats for the lower 7 teams.


Games Played:  105
Total Wins:  19
Total Losses:  76
Total Ties:  10
Goals For:  48
Goals Against:  697


Most of those teams were minor birth year teams.  I for one, would have welcomed the opportunity for my young 13 year old to play competitive games and learn the game against teams that were skilled enough to compete and develop ie Lower Tier.  In the end, the best team may have developed to a level wherein they could possibly compete against the 8th place upper tier team.  I would imagine that some people may say, "why not drop?"  Last season one team did drop (or forced) however you look at it and won the Bantam A Division went 14-0, scored 111 goals and gave up 11.  They then finished up the season with a 5-0 record in the playoffs where they scored 22 goals and surrendered 4.  State Champions in the Bantam A Division with a lot of Bantam A parents  upset that they were forced to play in their Division.  They had a talented team but I don't believe they would have been in the upper echelon in the AA Division.


Looking at a game we played two weeks ago against a group of talented 04 players?  A 14-0 win and we only gave up 1 shot.  Are they a Bantam A team?  IMO no...too talented but not big enough yet and just learning to hit.  I think they will build upon their successes in the lower tier and by the end of the year...who knows. 


It's hard to please everyone but I've been on both sides of the fence...in the end, losing, and never touching the puck or having any shots on goal, does nothing for either side.  Long response so I guess this qualifies as my 3 cents...

[trans4761]

I'm not sure what you mean when you refer to the "old days?"  The season before last seems like recent memory but nonetheless.  Last season, I had the fortune of my younger son participating in Bantam AA as a minor birth year team.  They were a group of skilled players that entered Bantams a bit wide eyed and scared.  By the end of the year, they were playing better but no manner of work would have propelled them into the upper echelon of the Bantam AA Division.  When looking at last year's CAHA schedule (No SCAHA games last season), I looked at the teams that finished the season between spots 12-18 (Possible Lower Tier).  Here are some combined stats for the lower 7 teams.


Games Played:  105
Total Wins:  19
Total Losses:  76
Total Ties:  10
Goals For:  48
Goals Against:  697


Most of those teams were minor birth year teams.  I for one, would have welcomed the opportunity for my young 13 year old to play competitive games and learn the game against teams that were skilled enough to compete and develop ie Lower Tier.  In the end, the best team may have developed to a level wherein they could possibly compete against the 8th place upper tier team.  I would imagine that some people may say, "why not drop?"  Last season one team did drop (or forced) however you look at it and won the Bantam A Division went 14-0, scored 111 goals and gave up 11.  They then finished up the season with a 5-0 record in the playoffs where they scored 22 goals and surrendered 4.  State Champions in the Bantam A Division with a lot of Bantam A parents  upset that they were forced to play in their Division.  They had a talented team but I don't believe they would have been in the upper echelon in the AA Division.


Looking at a game we played two weeks ago against a group of talented 04 players?  A 14-0 win and we only gave up 1 shot.  Are they a Bantam A team?  IMO no...too talented but not big enough yet and just learning to hit.  I think they will build upon their successes in the lower tier and by the end of the year...who knows. 


It's hard to please everyone but I've been on both sides of the fence...in the end, losing, and never touching the puck or having any shots on goal, does nothing for either side.  Long response so I guess this qualifies as my 3 cents...



Loooonng rant


But good perspective.

[Puck Yeah]

I think CAHA is giving a dose of bitter pill this year to see if this will remedy teams from playing out of the skill level in the future.  Will it work?  I don't know.


I think possibly a better solution but not without it's own problems, would be a longer preseason with more games.  Maybe two games a weekend and the a mandatory evaluation and placement by CAHA forcing down teams that do not belong. 


There is no Utopia.  Every system will have it's detractors and reasons for it "being all wrong". 

[trans4761]

As someone previously stated, until the rule of having to release your roster if team is banished to a lower division is changed, parents will still continue to reach for that extra A.

[Pistonkev]

I think CAHA is giving a dose of bitter pill this year to see if this will remedy teams from playing out of the skill level in the future.  Will it work?  I don't know.


I think possibly a better solution but not without it's own problems, would be a longer preseason with more games.  Maybe two games a weekend and the a mandatory evaluation and placement by CAHA forcing down teams that do not belong. 


There is no Utopia.  Every system will have it's detractors and reasons for it "being all wrong".

If you look at the problem Bantam AA teams it isn't going to change things.


Kings2
Ducks2
Wildcats

[justanotherhockeydad]

This week's picks:

OCHC1 @ Bears (Game of the week) - Bears by 4
Reign @ Flyers - Flyers by 2
Wave1 @ Wave2 - Wave2 by 1
Kings1 @ Kings2 - Kings1 by 2
Lady Ducks @ Ducks1 - Duck1 by 5
Mariners @ Ducks2 - Mariners by 3
Empire @ OCHC2 - Empire by 4

[Teemu8]

Schedule is up.... here comes the bitchin!

[justanotherhockeydad]

Schedule is up.... here comes the bitchin!

Ok I will start... F CAHA for not doing us a solid and making flight 2 travel up north twice.

[Teemu8]

OCHC1 at Bears...


1-1 after 1st


6-2 Bears after 2nd

[Teemu8]

Schedule is up.... here comes the bitchin!

Ok I will start... F CAHA for not doing us a solid and making flight 2 travel up north twice.

100% agree


My kids team has 3 games on KHS-B... ridiculous

[Teemu8]

OCHC1 at Bears...


1-1 after 1st


6-2 Bears after 2nd

6-3 Bears final...  OC hung with them at times...

[lcadad]

The main issue seems to be that we have birthyear major/minor and hybrid teams all playing each other.  This is certainly a problem but not solved by flighting.  It starts with the CAHA approach to AAA which is out of step with other places, and with what USA Hockey suggests.  But at least in AAA you have birth year teams playing other birth year teams.  A lot of the problem was created when SCAHA (and CAHA) started allowing entire teams of kids playing up a division in non-Tier and AA. 

They have begun the process of stopping this, by stopping kids from playing up out of Mite. 

It's a very draconian reversal that doesn't recognize the frustration that some parents who start their kids playing hockey at a young age have at the point that they have already watched 3-4 years of cross ice hockey. 

I think the logical solution, without backsliding into allowing 100% mite teams to play up to squirt, is to add a new top tier for mite teams to play full ice games, once they have participated in a full season of Level1 cross ice, or whatever they call the top level.

I agree that if these "play up" teams were removed, we would have far less of an issue, as at the squirt and peewee level, they have driven the 2-3 teams at a club phenomenon.

What you see at Bantam is what a lot of people who are familiar with the way different kids mature and develop predicted for years: that the differences in physical maturation become more important once checking is introduced.    It's much harder, even for the top 5% underage kids to compete with teams that are physically more mature, and at the same time, some of the things that made those kids better aren't that special anymore.  They tend to return to the pack with 1 or 2 exceptions.  Even at Peewee AA this looks to be the case.  CAHA chose to place an '07 team into the top Flight this season, with very little competitive information to back that decision up.  We will see how things go, but the other '07 teams are in the lower flight and we will also see how they fare.  I think there will be some issues for both set of teams.

[orangecone]

OCHC1 at Bears...


1-1 after 1st


6-2 Bears after 2nd

6-3 Bears final...  OC hung with them at times...

bears are a solid team and what sets them apart from what I can see is that they play disciplined, mistake free hockey. OC1 played great when they were at full strength, but, 6 penalties pretty much killed any chance they had. Great game and really great pace of play. Gonna be a fun season.