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Author Topic: Predictions for AA?  (Read 324414 times)

Nowhearthis

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #435 on: September 25, 2017, 10:55:27 AM »
Since this directly affects at least 200 So Cal families, our team managers and coaches should unite on the issue and get it settled appropriately and promptly through their channel.


CAHA needs us.  Stupid, expensive, and completely unnecessary things like this continuing is what shrinks the pool year after year.  High School hockey or alternative sports will now definitely receive more interest.

area51

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #436 on: September 25, 2017, 11:38:57 AM »
and then throw in the extra trip for the Jamboree. They might not count the Jamboree as a CAHA Weekend, but it looks the same to every teams BUDGET!
There is something more to them not willing to cancel Feb San Jose! They say they don't want our season to end in February. We will still have SCAHA games and Presidents Day Tournaments...STOP pretending you're doing us a favor. I would bet that every coach, manager, and parent on the eight Flight 2 teams would vote to cancel Feb San Jose!
CAHA needs a new board!!! this is BS


from Icadad, 100% right on:
In summary, it's illogical and the product of either bad planning, bad management, stubbornness, insensitivity, arrogance or maybe something worse if that is even possible.   It doesn't have to be a conspiracy to see a conflict of interest exists here in light of such blatant disregard for wasting peoples' time and money.

Pass_the_puck

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #437 on: September 25, 2017, 12:14:35 PM »
Valencia 9
Flight 3 Wildcats 0


Simi 7
Flight 3 Ducks-2  1


Wada 3
flight 1 Wave 3


But I thought the flight system was going to prevent scores like that.  ??? 9-0 and 7-1  between teams in the same flight 2.  What a joke. This weekend just proved that CAHA screwed up the season for so many. We pay way too much money for this BS.

Miss My 48080

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #438 on: September 25, 2017, 12:23:56 PM »
Can we just call out Laura Cahn for for she runs Vacaville rink and sits on the CAHA board.

So when a weekend needed to be dropped she chose a So Cal weekend getting dumped so her rink wouldn't lose that money.

Conflict of interest much?

Some of the club presidents have already questioned the CAHA Board and the rather odd way they carry out their responsibilities. Essentially, the response from the CAHA schedulers was the typical, "You signed up for it. It's too late to change. Are there any other questions I can answer?" (Actually, when we signed up there was no goofy flight system).

Anyway, I have come to the belief that the only way to go about this is to take our concerns directly to USA Hockey. I am currently putting together a very well-reasoned and thorough letter that outlines some of the concerns so many of us have. It will take a week or so to finalize as I want to make sure my facts are accurate. I want the person at USA Hockey to understand how many people here have valid concerns with some of the members of the CAHA Board. My goal is to leave emotion out of it and simply back up my arguments with facts. The main points of my letter will be:
  • Announcing the Flight system after LOIs were signed and the placement of teams. It's pretty easy to show that a team that won no games in San Jose, and was placed in the first flight, had strong CAHA Board representation. Likewise, the same club has a team that was allowed to stay in AA when they have no business being there.
  • The Wildcats/Jr. Reign should have been dropped. There is no reason they should have been allowed to remain a "AA" team. They also have CAHA Board representation. Favors are given to those "in the clique."
  • The Wildcats/Jr. Reign's designation as a "Model ADM Club" should be called into question. If you do some research and actually read the PowerPoint presentations their president delivered to USA Hockey you'd think you were living in an alternate reality. USA Hockey apparently has accepted everything they have been told by the person from Riverside. A strong counter-argument needs to be presented to them. To support my position I have all their stats and related info from the past few years and can show how the club's actions appear to contradict the goals of the ADM in a rather large way. Once you begin creating graphs and putting information into picture form you begin to see things more clearly.
The concern I am trying to express is that special favors are given to certain people. The Board seems to have forgotten whom they represent and have taken on somewhat of a "siege mentality" where they believe it's "us against them." Of course, the California hockey families are "them."

Obviously, the situation where approximately 200 families from Southern California have to take their kids to Vacaville to play each other needs to be addressed. The connection is now quite clear. The marketing material coming from the NHL and USA Hockey tells us Hockey is for Everyone. CAHA's decision-making process contradicts this. My family works very hard and earns an income that allows us to spend tons of money on a youth sport. Not every family can. Yes, I can buy a couple tickets on Southwest to Sacramento, pick up a rental car for the weekend, get a $150/night hotel for three nights and eat every meal in a restaurant for three days and still not miss a meal. Do you think this inhibits hockey's growth in our state?

The knee-jerk reaction I hear from so many is that "those people" should not play hockey. If we want to grow our sport, and if we want the very best athletes to become hockey players, we really need to find ways to make it more accessible. CAHA can't see this.

We understand our kids play in a state-wide league. We were all prepared to do the travelling and weren't complaining about it. When the hockey landscape was changed this season and we learned only SoCal teams were in the 2nd flight, CAHA was given an opportunity to do something good that could have calmed some of the more upset families and moved the Vacaville weekend to SoCal. They chose to dig in their heels and put their own wants/needs over those of the people that pay the bills.

Somebody in a position of responsibility above the state level should at least be brought into the loop as to what is happening here.

On another note, how does one go about getting a spot on the CAHA Board? I plan on looking into this a bit more but it seems that we need some of us in the decision-making positions. I would be very happy to do whatever I can to try and improve CA hockey for our kids and their families. I'd be happy to buy my own plane tickets to their meetings each month (or whenever they meet).
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 06:10:13 PM by Miss My 48080 »

area51

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #439 on: September 25, 2017, 12:31:54 PM »
Valencia 9
Flight 3 Wildcats 0


Simi 7
Flight 3 Ducks-2  1


Wada 3
flight 1 Wave 3


But I thought the flight system was going to prevent scores like that.  ??? 9-0 and 7-1  between teams in the same flight 2.  What a joke. This weekend just proved that CAHA screwed up the season for so many. We pay way too much money for this BS.
Next season, we'll have 3 Flights

Miss My 48080

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #440 on: September 25, 2017, 12:33:39 PM »
High School hockey or alternative sports will now definitely receive more interest.

It's interesting you mentioned this. I believe you are correct. I have always wondered if there was a correlation between poor leadership at CAHA and the growth of the high school leagues. Who knows, maybe it's a way for the NHL-affiliated clubs to take players out of CAHA and get them into leagues they control?
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 05:58:29 PM by Miss My 48080 »

area51

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #441 on: September 25, 2017, 12:39:07 PM »
CAHA would need to have an equal board as SCAHA does, each club gets one vote. But good luck getting that from the Big 3, when you have all the votes, why would anyone give that up!

Miss My 48080

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #442 on: September 25, 2017, 12:45:50 PM »
Can we just call out Laura Cahn for for she runs Vacaville rink and sits on the CAHA board.

So when a weekend needed to be dropped she chose a So Cal weekend getting dumped so her rink wouldn't lose that money.

Conflict of interest much?

Some of the club presidents have already questioned the CAHA Board and the rather odd way they carry out their responsibilities. Essentially, the response from the CAHA schedulers was the typical, "You signed up for it. It's too late to change. Are there any other questions I can answer?" (Actually, when we signed up their was no goofy flight system).

Anyway, I have come to the belief that the only way to go about this is to take our concerns directly to USA Hockey. I am currently putting together a very well-reasoned and thorough letter that outlines some of the concerns so many of us have. It will take a week or so to finalize as I want to make sure my facts are accurate. I want the person at USA Hockey to understand how many people here have valid concerns with some of the members of the CAHA Board. My goal is to leave emotion out of it and simply back up my arguments with facts. The main points of my letter will be:
  • Announcing the Flight system after LOIs were signed and the placement of teams. It's pretty easy to show that a team that won no games in San Jose, and was placed in the first flight, had strong CAHA Board representation. Likewise, the same club has a team that was allowed to stay in AA when they have no business being there.
  • The Wildcats/Jr. Reign should have been dropped. There is no reason they should have been allowed to remain a "AA" team. They also have CAHA Board representation. Favors are given to those "in the clique."
  • The Wildcats/Jr. Reign's designation as a "Model ADM Club" should be called into question. If you do some research and actually read the PowerPoint presentations their president delivered to USA Hockey you'd think you were living in an alternate reality. USA Hockey apparently has accepted everything they have been told by the person from Riverside. A strong counter-argument needs to be presented to them. To support my position I have all their stats and related info from the past few years and can show how the club's actions appear to contradict the goals of the ADM in a rather large way. Once you begin creating graphs and putting information into picture form you begin to see things more clearly.
The concern I am trying to express is that special favors are given to certain people. The Board seems to have forgotten who they represent and have taken on somewhat of a "siege mentality" where they believe it's "us against them." Of course, the California hockey families are "them."

Obviously, the situation where approximately 200 families from Southern California have to take their kids to Vacaville to play each other needs to be addressed. The connection is now quite clear. The marketing material coming from the NHL and USA Hockey tells us Hockey is for Everyone. CAHA's decision making process contradicts this. My family works very hard and earns an income that allows us to spend tons of money on a youth sport. Not every family can. Yes, I can buy a couple tickets on Southwest to Sacramento, pick up a rental car for the weekend, get a $150/night hotel for three nights and eat every meal in a a restaurant for three days and still not miss a meal. Do you think this inhibits hockey's growth in our state?

The knee-jerk reaction I hear from so many is that "those people" should not play hockey. If we want to grow our sports, and if we want the very best athletes to become hockey players, we really need to find ways to make it more accessible. CAHA can't see this.

We understand our kids play in a state-wide league. We were all prepared to do the travelling and weren't complaining about it. When the hockey landscape was changed this season and we learned only SoCal teams were in the 2nd flight, CAHA was given an opportunity to do something good that could have calmed some of the more upset families and moved the Vacaville weekend to SoCal. They chose to dig in their heels and put their own wants/needs over those of the people that pay the bills.

Somebody is a position of responsibility above the state level should at least be brought into the loop as to what is happening here.

On another note, how does one go about getting a spot on the CAHA Board? I plan on looking into this a bit more but it seems that we need some of us in the decision-making positions. I would be very happy to do whatever I can to try and improve CA hockey for our kids and their families. I'd be happy to buy my own plane tickets to their meetings each month (or whenever they meet).

Page 80 of CAHA guidebook


Got it. Thanks.

NorcalDad

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #443 on: September 25, 2017, 12:56:19 PM »







On another note, how does one go about getting a spot on the CAHA Board? I plan on looking into this a bit more but it seems that we need some of us in the decision-making positions. I would be very happy to do whatever I can to try and improve CA hockey for our kids and their families. I'd be happy to buy my own plane tickets to their meetings each month (or whenever they meet).


38.1 The affairs of CAHA shall be governed and managed by a voting Board of twenty (20) Directors as follows:
   h. Beginning 2015, eighteen (18) Directors elected by a vote of the Registered Participant Members.
   i. Two (2) Directors automatically seated by their position as heads of their Affiliate Leagues as follows:
       1. Southern California Amateur Hockey Association Commissioner
       2. Northern California Youth Hockey Association President




While "Registered Participant Members" are players and coaches, their "voting rights shall be exercised by an Authorized Representative of their Member Association" [27.6].


For us up north, the Sharks field almost 25% of the teams, so that's how they get their power.  Oakland and Santa Clara play on Sharks-owned ice, so it's not often that they can go against their landlords.  GSE and its feeder clubs make an interesting cabal.


Seems like you need to first get on your club's board and be named as their authorized rep to CAHA.  Then hope 10 other people can do the same so you'll have a majority.




Hockey05

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #444 on: September 25, 2017, 01:18:13 PM »
Maybe y'all haven't been paying attention, or may be y'all are new to this? Whenever a weekend is cancelled, it's Dec or Jan, and that's usually a SoCal locale. Been like this for years, not a grand conspiracy.


Maybe you haven't been paying attention to the fact that the Bantam and Peewee Flight2 groups have 0 norcal teams in them.  As a matter of fact, there are only 6 teams in PW Flight 2 now because 2 teams were forced down.   At least in Bantams you still have 8.


There is no need to go to Norcal to play a CAHA weekend when there are 0 teams from Norcal involved.  Then add in the fact that at the same time people are questioning why this is happening, CAHA announces that the same Flight2 teams will not play at Lakewood.


In summary, it's illogical and the product of either bad planning, bad management, stubbornness, insensitivity, arrogance or maybe something worse if that is even possible.   It doesn't have to be a conspiracy to see a conflict of interest exists here in light of such blatant disregard for wasting peoples' time and money.


I'll add that most of these clubs all too willingly went along with this utter nonsense with no one thinking any of this garbage through. 
It's thousands of dollars and a huge waste of time.  I hope everyone has a great season.   

Pass_the_puck

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #445 on: September 25, 2017, 02:07:31 PM »
The idea of flights sounded ok in theory. We weren't sure how it was going to play out and kept hope that they wouldn't do a flight system if it wasn't called for. Wrong. We have three teams that don't belong in AA at all and they had to force 8 in flight two due to their stupid 10 team limit for flight 1.

Let's not forget that the original announcement listed Gulls1 in Flight 1.   I'd like to see those evaluations.
Honestly how does a mistake like that happen if you are creating a list based on game evaluations?  Were they that careless? Looks like they just copied and pasted the peewee flight 1 and made some adjustments to fit their agenda. The person who created the list didn't even check their own 10 team rule. They had 11 in flight 1.

What rule states CAHA's decisions cannot be questioned? I think they should have to explain their reasoning for each team and their respective placement. Based on games this past weekend they didn't do a very good job evaluating. Who were the evaluators? Oh that's right, the coaches. Another conflict of interest.

Flight 1

Bears
Blackhawks
Ducks(1)
Empire
GSE(1)
GSE(2)
Gulls(1)
Kings(1)
OCHC(1)
Sharks
Wave(1)



Flight 2

Ducks(2)
Flyers
Kings(2)
Mariners
OCHC(2)
Reign
Saints
Wave(2)

WCHP

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #446 on: September 25, 2017, 02:22:45 PM »
The idea of flights sounded ok in theory. We weren't sure how it was going to play out and kept hope that they wouldn't do a flight system if it wasn't called for. Wrong. We have three teams that don't belong in AA at all and they had to force 8 in flight two due to their stupid 10 team limit for flight 1.

Let's not forget that the original announcement listed Gulls1 in Flight 1.   I'd like to see those evaluations.
Honestly how does a mistake like that happen if you are creating a list based on game evaluations?  Were they that careless? Looks like they just copied and pasted the peewee flight 1 and made some adjustments to fit their agenda. The person who created the list didn't even check their own 10 team rule. They had 11 in flight 1.

What rule states CAHA's decisions cannot be questioned? I think they should have to explain their reasoning for each team and their respective placement. Based on games this past weekend they didn't do a very good job evaluating. Who were the evaluators? Oh that's right, the coaches. Another conflict of interest.

Flight 1

Bears
Blackhawks
Ducks(1)
Empire
GSE(1)
GSE(2)
Gulls(1)
Kings(1)
OCHC(1)
Sharks
Wave(1)



Flight 2

Ducks(2)
Flyers
Kings(2)
Mariners
OCHC(2)
Reign
Saints
Wave(2)


what teams do you believe are not AA caliber?

Miss My 48080

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #447 on: September 25, 2017, 02:41:22 PM »
The idea of flights sounded ok in theory. We weren't sure how it was going to play out and kept hope that they wouldn't do a flight system if it wasn't called for. Wrong. We have three teams that don't belong in AA at all and they had to force 8 in flight two due to their stupid 10 team limit for flight 1.

Let's not forget that the original announcement listed Gulls1 in Flight 1.   I'd like to see those evaluations.
Honestly how does a mistake like that happen if you are creating a list based on game evaluations?  Were they that careless? Looks like they just copied and pasted the peewee flight 1 and made some adjustments to fit their agenda. The person who created the list didn't even check their own 10 team rule. They had 11 in flight 1.

What rule states CAHA's decisions cannot be questioned? I think they should have to explain their reasoning for each team and their respective placement. Based on games this past weekend they didn't do a very good job evaluating. Who were the evaluators? Oh that's right, the coaches. Another conflict of interest.

Flight 1

Bears
Blackhawks
Ducks(1)
Empire
GSE(1)
GSE(2)
Gulls(1)
Kings(1)
OCHC(1)
Sharks
Wave(1)



Flight 2

Ducks(2)
Flyers
Kings(2)
Mariners
OCHC(2)
Reign
Saints
Wave(2)

what teams do you believe are not AA caliber?


I think the general consensus is
  • Ducks(2)
  • Wildcats/Jr. Reign
  • CAHA Jr. Kings(2)
I question JK(1) in the top flight. We'll see how they do once they start playing real AA teams. They have had a somewhat sheltered preseason and a winless San Jose experience.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 02:43:25 PM by Miss My 48080 »

UhhhhDuhhhh

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #448 on: September 25, 2017, 04:09:11 PM »
I think OCHC (2) should also be in this conversation.
You're such a tool! 3 clubs in 4 years and already quit again - never make playoffs? common denominator? Have fun paying dues for nothing.  Yes, OC2 is a minor year team with a few exceptions.  One Dec 03, One who never played ice (only roller) and a kid on his 3rd year in skates.  OC 1 last year went through the same process and now are in the running for the top 3-4 teams.  OC2 just lost to Empire in a game that was 2-1 going into the 3rd.  There's a huge difference in size between many of these kids and OC2 held their own until falling apart at the end.  I'm sure the Empire group didn't feel like it was a total waste of time.  Next week won't be any easier but they will get better just like Wada, Kings 2 and Ducks.  BYE TOOL 

BlindZebras

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #449 on: September 25, 2017, 04:24:13 PM »
LOL, don't let the "2-1 going into the 3rd" fool you.  The game was not close and the outcome was predetermined.  Let's look at SOG, scoring opportunities and puck possession for starters. It will be interesting to see how they hold up in the 2nd flight.