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Author Topic: Predictions for AA?  (Read 324531 times)

goonhockey

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #930 on: February 06, 2018, 08:36:44 AM »
surprised the play-in games aren't in vacaville also...

Pistonkev

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #931 on: February 06, 2018, 08:37:43 AM »
surprised the play-in games aren't in vacaville also...

I heard San Jose but maybe it is now Vacaville.

WCHP

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #932 on: February 06, 2018, 08:46:20 AM »
the Tier 1 should need to go to the Tier 2 team, they are the "better team" they will more than likely win, why should the weaker team need to travel to a game that will be harder for them. ;) ;)

KickSave

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #933 on: February 06, 2018, 08:49:40 AM »
Because this whole system is set up to curb the placement of A teams in AA. Why should the flight I Team have to travel for this game, especially when they already beat out two other flight I teams for 8th place? There’s no way to do this and make everybody happy.

WCHP

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #934 on: February 06, 2018, 08:54:17 AM »
Because this whole system is set up to curb the placement of A teams in AA. Why should the flight I Team have to travel for this game, especially when they already beat out two other flight I teams for 8th place? There’s no way to do this and make everybody happy.
I guess this situation is worse by having two teams literally at each end of the state

WCHP

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #935 on: February 06, 2018, 08:58:44 AM »
they really should meet 1/2 way..Bakersfield or Santa Barbara

KickSave

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #936 on: February 06, 2018, 09:22:20 AM »
Maybe they can get some extra games during that trip

Pistonkev

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #937 on: February 06, 2018, 10:34:50 AM »
the Tier 1 should need to go to the Tier 2 team, they are the "better team" they will more than likely win, why should the weaker team need to travel to a game that will be harder for them. ;) ;)

Hardly the better team.

WCHP

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #938 on: February 06, 2018, 10:37:55 AM »
But we did the whole Jamboree thing last year and the smart people said they are either Tier 1 or 2 so don’t argue with the smart people of CAHA.

trans4761

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #939 on: February 06, 2018, 10:39:33 AM »
the Tier 1 should need to go to the Tier 2 team, they are the "better team" they will more than likely win, why should the weaker team need to travel to a game that will be harder for them. ;) ;)

Hardly the better team.
Saints by 2

Pistonkev

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #940 on: February 06, 2018, 10:41:14 AM »
Because this whole system is set up to curb the placement of A teams in AA. Why should the flight I Team have to travel for this game, especially when they already beat out two other flight I teams for 8th place? There’s no way to do this and make everybody happy.

They should of taken the top 7 teams in flight one and given them a pass to the playdowns.

 Then you take the top 4 Flight two teams into a playoff with one team coming out as your 8th seed.

 A wildcard round for lack of a name. You would get more money more excitement for the clubs. You could also take the 8th and 9th team in flight one into the wildcard round giving 6 teams a fight for a spot.     
« Last Edit: February 06, 2018, 10:53:03 AM by Pistonkev »

lcadad

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #941 on: February 06, 2018, 10:42:10 AM »
Because this whole system is set up to curb the placement of A teams in AA. Why should the flight I Team have to travel for this game, especially when they already beat out two other flight I teams for 8th place? There’s no way to do this and make everybody happy.


That's just completely incorrect, sorry.  The system was set up to keep the "elite" AA teams from having to play the teams that would traditionally be in the 9-16+ territory in the league.  There was already a system in place to force down teams to A.  Since my kid is on his 2nd year of PWAA, I can tell you that last season there were teams that dropped to A (2 or 3 as I recall) and the same thing happened this year.


The main thing that people probably don't realize is that for the most part the flights were picked prior to the Jamboree.  I verified this over the course of the season.  The Jamboree was not an evaluation, but rather selected games meant only to reinforce the seeding they already had formulated.  For example in the case of our team, we played 3 of 4 teams that ended up in Flight1, and in fact all 3 of those teams made the top 8.  We lost those games by 1 and 2 goals, while putting up equal shots.  We outshot the team we lost to by 1 goal and carried a lot of the play.  The other flight2 team we beat by 6.  Didn't make a difference, because the assumption was that we were supposed to be a "mid flight2 team"   


We were under the impression at the time, given CAHA's minimal information on the matter, that it was an evaluation, so in that sense, there was subterfuge involved.  If people had known where they stood, there might have been a chance to clarify misunderstandings or challenge the seedings.  I also think that people would have done a lot more questioning of the time and money invested in the Jamboree given the format.  We played one Norcal team at the Jamboree, BTW, and ironically that is the team we have to play for the play-in game.  Speaking of which, said game was also in flux as to the location and time as recently as yesterday with the game this SUNDAY.  The whole play-in idea, is not well thought out, nor impartial nor well planned, unless you like the idea of having to either buy plane tickets or drive 6-9 hours for a game with 6 days notice.


Depending on the stature and presence of the individual clubs, some teams ended up getting preference they probably shouldn't have.  Those who complained about this from the outset were proven entirely right by some of the flight 1 selections. 


I understand that in general the flighting got more rankings right than it did wrong, but that doesn't justify the mistakes or the general message this sends to people stuck in the middle of this mess.  PW flight2 ended the season with the top team having +80 goal differential in only 15 games.  That's a pretty big evaluation fail.  We will never know whether this team would have made the playoffs if it had been in Flight1, but it seems possible given the small sample size of scrimmages and SCAHA games where they played Flight1 teams in some close games. 


But the biggest issue is that after teams had already signed up for PWAA when this was launched, and the end result is that we might as well have just stayed within SCAHA, as there wasn't a single Norcal team in flight2.  CAHA has been tone deaf from the start, in forcing us to travel to Vacaville and play each other. 


A CAHA rep told me they are going to "improve things" next year   :o







SkatingDad

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #942 on: February 06, 2018, 10:50:28 AM »

A CAHA rep told me they are going to "improve things" next year   :o


That is one of the biggest oxymoron's I have read on this site.

KickSave

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #943 on: February 06, 2018, 10:57:11 AM »
Fair enough. As irritated as I get by some of this stuff, they are trying to respond to critiques. Who expected this to be perfect on the first try? I guess that’s why the game should be played, but perhaps it should have been played at the end of the last CAHA weekend. I’m sure that would have presented its own scheduling nightmare, but it’s a thought.


I’d like the AAA teams brought in to the jamboree. It’s odd the Bears weren’t allowed to play AAA just because they’re a small club w no AA feeder, but that’s another discussion.



Have any of the flight II teams played a flight I team during the season at a tournament? How did that go?

lcadad

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #944 on: February 06, 2018, 11:03:37 AM »
Because this whole system is set up to curb the placement of A teams in AA. Why should the flight I Team have to travel for this game, especially when they already beat out two other flight I teams for 8th place? There’s no way to do this and make everybody happy.

They should of taken the top 7 teams in flight one and given them a pass to the playdowns. Then you take the top 4 Flight two teams all BTW can beat a flight one team. Take those top 4 into a playoff with one team coming out as your 8th seed. A wildcard round for lack of a name. You would get more money more excitement for the clubs. You could also take the 8th and 9th team in flight one into the wildcard round giving 6 teams a fight for a spot.   


I almost hate to give helpful suggestions to "improve" something I don't think makes any sense in the first place, but I was thinking along those same lines.


What would be a lot more interesting I thought would be:


-Flight1 top 6 get placed in Playdowns


-Have a Flight2 tournament with all the Flight1 7+ teams and the rest of the 8 spots filled by the Flight2 teams.  To avoid inherent bias I would interleave the seedings:


Flight1 #7 - Seed 1
Flight2 #1 - Seed 2
Flight1 #8 - Seed 3
Flight2 #2 - Seed 4
etc as needed


Take the finalists and seed em into playdowns as #7 & #8.


This would actually make this interesting for more teams, and a lot less wonky and more forgiving of the scenarios where teams progress and become strong contenders as the seasons goes on, while also giving more Flight2 teams as well as the borderline/bottom flight1 teams a reason to care.