This Community is For Sale - For more information contact: admin@calhockey.com

Author Topic: Predictions for AA?  (Read 324516 times)

Pistonkev

  • AHL
  • *****
  • Posts: 648
  • LR Justice +157/-30
Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #945 on: February 06, 2018, 11:12:05 AM »
Because this whole system is set up to curb the placement of A teams in AA. Why should the flight I Team have to travel for this game, especially when they already beat out two other flight I teams for 8th place? There’s no way to do this and make everybody happy.

They should of taken the top 7 teams in flight one and given them a pass to the playdowns. Then you take the top 4 Flight two teams all BTW can beat a flight one team. Take those top 4 into a playoff with one team coming out as your 8th seed. A wildcard round for lack of a name. You would get more money more excitement for the clubs. You could also take the 8th and 9th team in flight one into the wildcard round giving 6 teams a fight for a spot.   


I almost hate to give helpful suggestions to "improve" something I don't think makes any sense in the first place, but I was thinking along those same lines.


What would be a lot more interesting I thought would be:


-Flight1 top 6 get placed in Playdowns


-Have a Flight2 tournament with all the Flight1 7+ teams and the rest of the 8 spots filled by the Flight2 teams.  To avoid inherent bias I would interleave the seedings:


Flight1 #7 - Seed 1
Flight2 #1 - Seed 2
Flight1 #8 - Seed 3
Flight2 #2 - Seed 4
etc as needed


Take the finalists and seed em into playdowns as #7 & #8.


This would actually make this interesting for more teams, and a lot less wonky and more forgiving of the scenarios where teams progress and become strong contenders as the seasons goes on, while also giving more Flight2 teams as well as the borderline/bottom flight1 teams a reason to care.

That's good too.

Keeps more teams in the mix and makes the system better. Then again CAHA doesn't care about making things better.   

lcadad

  • AHL
  • *****
  • Posts: 540
  • LR Justice +151/-121
Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #946 on: February 06, 2018, 11:37:55 AM »
At least with the SCAHA teams, yes you play them in SCAHA games that are essentially exhibitions.  I have my doubts about the powers that be who scheduled those games as well.  What you have to understand is that there are people that on the face of it, from a factual standpoint have a conflict of interest in many of the decisions that are made.  None of us know what influence they have, but many people know of these conflicts.  The Vacaville decision for example, is one that lots of people questioned.  In 12u and 14u there is not a single Norcal team in flight 2, yet they forced all the socal teams to play a CAHA weekend in Vacaville.  You can find those discussions here if you search for em.


As for the Bears, it is a choice they made.  They could have played AAA, and there was a core of that team that played a AAA minor schedule previously.  They just didn't want to deal with the red tape or the limitations of AAA.  What the CAHA system shows is that they really don't care that the Bears should have been promoted to AAA, nor do they have any interest in doing so. 


The Bears could not easily qualify for AAA franchise in any sustainable fashion once they dropped the midget program, and would likely over time come to the same place the Titans have, but they could probably find a way to have 2 AA teams to satisfy the basic requirements if they wanted to.


The CAHA system is dumb. It limits AAA play to a select few who can afford it.  When you are playing 2 other teams spread across the entire state 3x and that's your season, you then have to travel to far away tournaments just to flesh out your season.  Why would the Bears want to do that, when they can play a lot more teams in AA, and travel and play in AAA tournaments whenever they want.  What would the benefit for them to be restricted to just playing 3 other teams?


CAHA's system is meant to discourage AAA participation, and the AA stuff is a reflection of that thinking.  Too much concern about the complaints of parents who had to watch their team occasionally beat down another team they had to drive a long way to play, boohoo.  They live in some imaginary world where there is ultimate parity and every game comes down to a shootout, and yet in reality, most years there is a clear favorite that dominates the other teams.  I've seen the villagers assemble the pitchforks for the Gulls for having sub-standard teams, and now the Titans won't have their AAA Midgets.  It's all about shrinking and limiting options for people to have their kids play the sport in a way that is sustainable and possible for them, with all the emphasis on winning and losing games, and  at the expense of development and growth. 


The Ducks, Kings and Sharks are the beneficiaries of this system and everyone else loses.  Throughout most of the country there  is a far greater percentage of kids playing AAA hockey than there is in Cali, again as has been discussed on these boards previously so I won't rehash.  Somehow, CAHA knows how to do kids hockey better than everywhere else in the country.


Meanwhile, Minnesota produces tons of NHL players with a fraction of the population and different age groupings   ;D   Sure they have lakes and everything but it's damn cold there too.



PutYourFootOnTheGas

  • Squirt
  • **
  • Posts: 50
  • LR Justice +6/-18
Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #947 on: February 06, 2018, 01:18:44 PM »
Why would the Bears want to do that, when they can play a lot more teams in AA, and travel and play in AAA tournaments whenever they want.  What would the benefit for them to be restricted to just playing 3 other teams?


I would argue because playing 9 competitive AAA league games is far more valuable than boat racing the entire AA division over 18 non competitive games. 129 GF and 27 GA is a joke. There isn’t a team in AA that can come close to these guys. I understand OC beat them up in Vancouver but obviously thst was an anomaly. I also understand they had some close games this weekend but their best player didn’t even play. I talked to someone who saw the GSE game and it wasn’t really competitive in their opinion. . GSE must have had 10+ icing calls simply trying to fend the Bears off. They also dump the puck every possession with next to zero sustained pressure. The tactic worked keeping the game close until they got a breakaway goal to keep it really tight.


The Bears could have had great games against the Kings. They played the Ducks early and beat them they played the Sharks and lost one and tied one and smoked the Gulls who should have played AA.


In the end you have to play teams at your level to be challenged and to stimulate development.

Puck Yeah

  • Midget
  • ****
  • Posts: 394
  • LR Justice +110/-51
Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #948 on: February 06, 2018, 03:53:16 PM »
Because this whole system is set up to curb the placement of A teams in AA. Why should the flight I Team have to travel for this game, especially when they already beat out two other flight I teams for 8th place? There’s no way to do this and make everybody happy.

They should of taken the top 7 teams in flight one and given them a pass to the playdowns. Then you take the top 4 Flight two teams all BTW can beat a flight one team. Take those top 4 into a playoff with one team coming out as your 8th seed. A wildcard round for lack of a name. You would get more money more excitement for the clubs. You could also take the 8th and 9th team in flight one into the wildcard round giving 6 teams a fight for a spot.   


I almost hate to give helpful suggestions to "improve" something I don't think makes any sense in the first place, but I was thinking along those same lines.


What would be a lot more interesting I thought would be:


-Flight1 top 6 get placed in Playdowns


-Have a Flight2 tournament with all the Flight1 7+ teams and the rest of the 8 spots filled by the Flight2 teams.  To avoid inherent bias I would interleave the seedings:


Flight1 #7 - Seed 1
Flight2 #1 - Seed 2
Flight1 #8 - Seed 3
Flight2 #2 - Seed 4
etc as needed


Take the finalists and seed em into playdowns as #7 & #8.


This would actually make this interesting for more teams, and a lot less wonky and more forgiving of the scenarios where teams progress and become strong contenders as the seasons goes on, while also giving more Flight2 teams as well as the borderline/bottom flight1 teams a reason to care.

That's good too.

Keeps more teams in the mix and makes the system better. Then again CAHA doesn't care about making things better.


I think the problem being you just made it very palatable for A teams to play AA by giving them their own playdowns.  I think that is what the new system was trying to deter.

MO-ICETIME

  • Midget
  • ****
  • Posts: 362
  • LR Justice +22/-24
Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #949 on: February 06, 2018, 08:45:55 PM »
Why would the Bears want to do that, when they can play a lot more teams in AA, and travel and play in AAA tournaments whenever they want.  What would the benefit for them to be restricted to just playing 3 other teams?


I would argue because playing 9 competitive AAA league games is far more valuable than boat racing the entire AA division over 18 non competitive games. 129 GF and 27 GA is a joke. There isn’t a team in AA that can come close to these guys. I understand OC beat them up in Vancouver but obviously thst was an anomaly. I also understand they had some close games this weekend but their best player didn’t even play. I talked to someone who saw the GSE game and it wasn’t really competitive in their opinion. . GSE must have had 10+ icing calls simply trying to fend the Bears off. They also dump the puck every possession with next to zero sustained pressure. The tactic worked keeping the game close until they got a breakaway goal to keep it really tight.


The Bears could have had great games against the Kings. They played the Ducks early and beat them they played the Sharks and lost one and tied one and smoked the Gulls who should have played AA.


In the end you have to play teams at your level to be challenged and to stimulate development.
But they play all of these AAA teams... they actually play a legit AAA schedule (21 AAA games to be exact) and they get the games for free (local games) most of the time I believe. That sounds like a great plan to me, why chase the extra A if in this case it doesn't mean anything. More people should probably get on board with this logic and maybe things would change? Can you imagine AAA kids playing for AA teams? What would the big clubs do?? LOL!
« Last Edit: February 06, 2018, 08:49:24 PM by MO-ICETIME »

Rub One Out

  • Mite
  • *
  • Posts: 38
  • LR Justice +42/-2
Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #950 on: February 07, 2018, 08:47:08 AM »
Why would the Bears want to do that, when they can play a lot more teams in AA, and travel and play in AAA tournaments whenever they want.  What would the benefit for them to be restricted to just playing 3 other teams?


I would argue because playing 9 competitive AAA league games is far more valuable than boat racing the entire AA division over 18 non competitive games. 129 GF and 27 GA is a joke. There isn’t a team in AA that can come close to these guys. I understand OC beat them up in Vancouver but obviously thst was an anomaly. I also understand they had some close games this weekend but their best player didn’t even play. I talked to someone who saw the GSE game and it wasn’t really competitive in their opinion. . GSE must have had 10+ icing calls simply trying to fend the Bears off. They also dump the puck every possession with next to zero sustained pressure. The tactic worked keeping the game close until they got a breakaway goal to keep it really tight.


The Bears could have had great games against the Kings. They played the Ducks early and beat them they played the Sharks and lost one and tied one and smoked the Gulls who should have played AA.


In the end you have to play teams at your level to be challenged and to stimulate development.
Empire has come "close" every time they've met.  Just sayin...

BlindZebras

  • AHL
  • *****
  • Posts: 541
  • LR Justice +121/-201
Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #951 on: February 07, 2018, 08:51:03 AM »
Would've been interesting to see how a top 5 team would have fared against Da Bears last weekend without #13 on the ice.

goonhockey

  • Peewee
  • ***
  • Posts: 127
  • LR Justice +21/-24
Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #952 on: February 07, 2018, 08:51:30 AM »
Why would the Bears want to do that, when they can play a lot more teams in AA, and travel and play in AAA tournaments whenever they want.  What would the benefit for them to be restricted to just playing 3 other teams?


I would argue because playing 9 competitive AAA league games is far more valuable than boat racing the entire AA division over 18 non competitive games. 129 GF and 27 GA is a joke. There isn’t a team in AA that can come close to these guys. I understand OC beat them up in Vancouver but obviously thst was an anomaly. I also understand they had some close games this weekend but their best player didn’t even play. I talked to someone who saw the GSE game and it wasn’t really competitive in their opinion. . GSE must have had 10+ icing calls simply trying to fend the Bears off. They also dump the puck every possession with next to zero sustained pressure. The tactic worked keeping the game close until they got a breakaway goal to keep it really tight.


The Bears could have had great games against the Kings. They played the Ducks early and beat them they played the Sharks and lost one and tied one and smoked the Gulls who should have played AA.


In the end you have to play teams at your level to be challenged and to stimulate development.
Empire has come "close" every time they've met.  Just sayin...




horseshoes and hand grenades, just sayin...

Rub One Out

  • Mite
  • *
  • Posts: 38
  • LR Justice +42/-2
Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #953 on: February 07, 2018, 09:02:28 AM »
LOL, this ain't horseshoes or hand grenades bud.  Odds are in favor of the Bears winning it all, but odds aren't guarantees.

Stark

  • Squirt
  • **
  • Posts: 61
  • LR Justice +2/-1
Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #954 on: February 07, 2018, 08:09:01 PM »
The SCAHA parents crack me up! Now you are bitchin cause the tier 2 1st place teams have to go to the bay area to play your play-in games against the 8th place tier 1 team. It's been scheduled that way since the Tier Rules came out on June 17th.  See #12
 Also, you bitch because you have to go to Vacaville for a CAHA weekend when all the tier 2 teams are from SCAHA. So you are saying it’s not fair the CAHA weekend location didn’t get changed to Socal because only SCAHA teams ended up in the lower tier?
 Last season CAHA changed the schedule because SCAHA teams didn’t want to travel up North to play SCAHA teams during CAHA weekends & wanted to play those games in Socal during non CAHA weekends.  Then SCAHA teams started bitchin cause their CAHA games against SCAHA teams interfered with their SCAHA league schedule.  Since it didn’t work out for you, the CAHA schedule gets changed back the way it was.   
You make CAHA sound like the bad guy when they set things up before hand and even try to help Socal, but just because it doesn’t end in your Socal’s favor, you bitch.

Flame away. This should keep the board busy for a while.
 
 
  On June 17, 2017, the CAHA Board of Directors adopted the following CAHA Tier II Flight System Administration Guidelines
 
  1)   All Tier II teams will be required to participate in Preseason Evaluation Jamboree; failure to attend will result in disqualification from all Tier II participation.
  2)   In order to ‘Flight’ a division there must be a minimum of 12 teams (6 teams per flight minimum).
  3)   Flight 1 will have a maximum of 10 teams.
  4)   CAHA may schedule multiple rounds of games within the CAHA weekends to assure each team gets 12 – 18 games.
  5)   If after preseason jamboree evaluation the Evaluation Committee determines a particular division cannot be equitably split into two divisions that division will play as a whole without being split into two flights.
  6)   Evaluation Jamboree format will be 1‐hour mini game slots, with a 3 minute warmup, (2) 25 minute runtime periods, and a 1 minute intermission between periods.
  7)   Teams will play minimum of four (4) games (any team may be asked to play a 5th game at the jamboree at the request of the evaluation committee).
  8 )   The two weeks following the Preseason Evaluation Jamboree, teams are subject to being required to play further evaluation “prove me” game(s) within their respective leagues (SCAHA/NORCAL) if requested by the Evaluation Committee.
  9)   CAHA will ensure no less than three (3) evaluators are assessing each age division (if possible, evaluators will not review multiple age divisions).
  10)   Tier II Playdowns will still be an 8 team playdown.
  11)   Flight 1/Flight 2 Playdown Scenarios: a.   Flight 1 has 6 teams; #1 and #2 seed from Flight 2 advance to playdowns.
  b.   Flight 1 has 7 teams; #1 seed from Flight 2 advances to playdowns.
  c.   Flight 1 has 8 teams; #1 seed from Flight 2 has play‐in game against Flight 1 #8 seed, winner advances to playdowns.
  d.   Flight 1 has 9 teams; #1 seed from Flight 2 has play‐in game against Flight 1 #8 seed, winner advances to playdowns.
  e.   Flight 1 has 10 teams; #1 seed from Flight 2 has play‐in game against Flight 1 #8 seed, winner advances to playdowns.
  12)   When Flight 2 #1 seed has play‐in game against Flight 1 #8 seed, the Flight 1 team shall be the home team, with the Flight 2 team traveling to play said game.
  13)   In the event a Flight 2 #1 seed declines the opportunity for the play‐in game, the Flight 1 #8 seed will advance to playdowns.
 

trans4761

  • NHL
  • ******
  • Posts: 1016
  • LR Justice +286/-342
Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #955 on: February 07, 2018, 09:12:53 PM »
The SCAHA parents crack me up! Now you are bitchin cause the tier 2 1st place teams have to go to the bay area to play your play-in games against the 8th place tier 1 team. It's been scheduled that way since the Tier Rules came out on June 17th.  See #12
 Also, you bitch because you have to go to Vacaville for a CAHA weekend when all the tier 2 teams are from SCAHA. So you are saying it’s not fair the CAHA weekend location didn’t get changed to Socal because only SCAHA teams ended up in the lower tier?
 Last season CAHA changed the schedule because SCAHA teams didn’t want to travel up North to play SCAHA teams during CAHA weekends & wanted to play those games in Socal during non CAHA weekends.  Then SCAHA teams started bitchin cause their CAHA games against SCAHA teams interfered with their SCAHA league schedule.  Since it didn’t work out for you, the CAHA schedule gets changed back the way it was.   
You make CAHA sound like the bad guy when they set things up before hand and even try to help Socal, but just because it doesn’t end in your Socal’s favor, you bitch.

Flame away. This should keep the board busy for a while.
 
 
  On June 17, 2017, the CAHA Board of Directors adopted the following CAHA Tier II Flight System Administration Guidelines
 
  1)   All Tier II teams will be required to participate in Preseason Evaluation Jamboree; failure to attend will result in disqualification from all Tier II participation.
  2)   In order to ‘Flight’ a division there must be a minimum of 12 teams (6 teams per flight minimum).
  3)   Flight 1 will have a maximum of 10 teams.
  4)   CAHA may schedule multiple rounds of games within the CAHA weekends to assure each team gets 12 – 18 games.
  5)   If after preseason jamboree evaluation the Evaluation Committee determines a particular division cannot be equitably split into two divisions that division will play as a whole without being split into two flights.
  6)   Evaluation Jamboree format will be 1‐hour mini game slots, with a 3 minute warmup, (2) 25 minute runtime periods, and a 1 minute intermission between periods.
  7)   Teams will play minimum of four (4) games (any team may be asked to play a 5th game at the jamboree at the request of the evaluation committee).
  8 )   The two weeks following the Preseason Evaluation Jamboree, teams are subject to being required to play further evaluation “prove me” game(s) within their respective leagues (SCAHA/NORCAL) if requested by the Evaluation Committee.
  9)   CAHA will ensure no less than three (3) evaluators are assessing each age division (if possible, evaluators will not review multiple age divisions).
  10)   Tier II Playdowns will still be an 8 team playdown.
  11)   Flight 1/Flight 2 Playdown Scenarios: a.   Flight 1 has 6 teams; #1 and #2 seed from Flight 2 advance to playdowns.
  b.   Flight 1 has 7 teams; #1 seed from Flight 2 advances to playdowns.
  c.   Flight 1 has 8 teams; #1 seed from Flight 2 has play‐in game against Flight 1 #8 seed, winner advances to playdowns.
  d.   Flight 1 has 9 teams; #1 seed from Flight 2 has play‐in game against Flight 1 #8 seed, winner advances to playdowns.
  e.   Flight 1 has 10 teams; #1 seed from Flight 2 has play‐in game against Flight 1 #8 seed, winner advances to playdowns.
  12)   When Flight 2 #1 seed has play‐in game against Flight 1 #8 seed, the Flight 1 team shall be the home team, with the Flight 2 team traveling to play said game.
  13)   In the event a Flight 2 #1 seed declines the opportunity for the play‐in game, the Flight 1 #8 seed will advance to playdowns.
 



...........Mr or Mrs Cahn ??????

Skate the River

  • Mite
  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • LR Justice +5/-0
Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #956 on: February 07, 2018, 10:16:11 PM »
First of all, I have no dog in this fight but have been involved with CAHA for many years as a coach and having a kid play. As I tell my kids all the time, when something doesn’t make sense, follow the money to get the answer and this is just another example of that. Stark, if you think this anything beyond that, I have a bridge to sell you.


Yes, everyone signed up knowing the deal with the flights. Agree, disagree that isn’t the issue and if there were No Cal teams in both flights, by all means be fair and have a weekend up north. HOWEVER, I would argue that there should be ZERO games played in Vacaville. San Jose has much better facilities, it’s easier to get to, the ice is better and it is much safer (I know multiple people that have had cars broken into in Vacaville). Argue with me that there is not enough rice slots there and that is the reason...However we all know that is not the real reason and doesn’t happen because of who is on the board.


CAHA makes no decision based on COMMON SENSE. When the flights were determined and every single team in Flight 2 is in So Cal, they should have immediately cancelled  the weekend up north and found ice  here in So Cal. There are several rinks here with 2 sheets so any argument that “the ice slots would be full” is complete and utter bullshit. I am sure Valencia, Anaheim Ice, Lakewood, Simi, Riverside or even KHS (would be the last choice) Would be happy to rearrange to host a CAHA weekend. Saves the parents time, money and oh yeah, likely keeps their kids in the school that Friday. However, said Board Member’s home  rink would be out the funds generated.


Once again, I will state what I did in the beginning...follow the money and the answers will show themselves.

Pistonkev

  • AHL
  • *****
  • Posts: 648
  • LR Justice +157/-30
Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #957 on: February 08, 2018, 08:49:36 AM »
Just wait untill the word gets out about a Flight 2 Playoff that's in the works for next month. Then we will be able to really complain. 

Puck Yeah

  • Midget
  • ****
  • Posts: 394
  • LR Justice +110/-51
Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #958 on: February 08, 2018, 10:19:12 AM »

Yes, everyone signed up knowing the deal with the flights. Agree, disagree that isn’t the issue and if there were No Cal teams in both flights, by all means be fair and have a weekend up north. HOWEVER, I would argue that there should be ZERO games played in Vacaville. San Jose has much better facilities, it’s easier to get to, the ice is better and it is much safer (I know multiple people that have had cars broken into in Vacaville). Argue with me that there is not enough rice slots there and that is the reason...However we all know that is not the real reason and doesn’t happen because of who is on the board.


CAHA makes no decision based on COMMON SENSE. When the flights were determined and every single team in Flight 2 is in So Cal, they should have immediately cancelled  the weekend up north and found ice  here in So Cal. There are several rinks here with 2 sheets so any argument that “the ice slots would be full” is complete and utter bullshit. I am sure Valencia, Anaheim Ice, Lakewood, Simi, Riverside or even KHS (would be the last choice) Would be happy to rearrange to host a CAHA weekend. Saves the parents time, money and oh yeah, likely keeps their kids in the school that Friday. However, said Board Member’s home  rink would be out the funds generated.


Once again, I will state what I did in the beginning...follow the money and the answers will show themselves.


You really believe that everything should have been scrapped up north and rescheduled in SoCal just to accommodate?  Are we all that entitled now to go without inconvenience?  We are entitled to the nicer facilities?


I don't know about you but I get up at 4:30 or 5 every morning for one reason.  Money.  These are not non profit organizations designed to get little Johnny to the Bigs.  It takes a little electricity to keep the water solid and money to pay the taxes.  Who the hell are you to tell someone else how to run their business?  Don't like it, open you own rink and have Bernie Sanders run it for you.  Free ice for everyone.  Become a board member.  Start your own hockey association.  There is still a small amount of freedom left in California.  Jump on the opportunity before it is entirely gone.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 10:20:48 AM by Puck Yeah »

KickSave

  • Squirt
  • **
  • Posts: 98
  • LR Justice +23/-26
Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #959 on: February 08, 2018, 10:33:04 AM »
Puck Yeah!


Imagine the few rinks still standing in CA trying to stay open partially through participation in a statewide league, a league that does its best to offer diverse, yet competitive games. The gall.