Author Topic: Predictions for AA?  (Read 101895 times)

Pistonkev

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #1020 on: February 13, 2018, 06:39:34 AM »
I have been involved in the sport of Travel Hockey for the past 11 years.  I have two boys, and they both started playing hockey at Mite B and currently,  the oldest son is completing a successful season at Midget 16AA, while my younger son completes his final Bantam AA season.  We have avoided the AAA level due to academic and financial considerations.  I have listened to parents that have personally participated, and watched their boys, play at all levels from Mite B, thru Juniors, and beyond.   In speaking to these parents, it occurred to me to "work the journey from the destination."  Where do you want your son/daughter to finish their hockey career?  College, Juniors, AAA, Semi-Pro, Europe, NHL?  How much to you want to spend to arrive at that destination?  Does your son/daughter share your passion? 

In speaking to a informed hockey dad, he had the opportunity to play Juniors as a teenager in Canada.  He also had the opportunity to attend College and become an Engineer. He decided to forgo Juniors, attend College, while his friends moved into the ranks of Juniors for the next few years.  His friends enjoyed their experience, but only one returned to attend College and did not fully enjoy the experience due to the fact that he was "older" than the incoming freshman.  His other friends finished Juniors, lost interest in school and moved into the workforce.  In the meantime, my friend finished College and is now working as a successful engineer.  He plays hockey weekly with other men that played Youth/Travel, AA, AAA, Juniors, Semi-Pro and in the NHL.  ALL of them finish their weekly game and return to WORK the next day.  In speaking to a BCHL Head Coach, he informed me that the average NHL career is 3 years and that 90% of former NHL players need to find employment at the end of their careers.  Although this may not be indicative of everyone, my point is, everyone ends up at the same spot....

My boys have had an amazing journey playing youth hockey while my wife and I have watched them develop into responsible young men and good hockey players.  We have traveled throughout the United States and Canada to participate in Tournaments which enabled the kids to see and experience a world they may never know.  Furthermore, they have made amazing friendships that will last long past their hockey careers.  Next season, my boys will play together on the same team, High School, for the first time since Mites.  I recognize that High School isn't quite the level of AAA or some AA teams but nonetheless, where does their journey end?  I fully believe that they love the game and that they can play competitive hockey for as long as they like.  The values, ethics and ability to work as a team, that they learned playing this game, will hopefully make them a valuable asset while pursuing any future endeavors.  Everyone, including the players, must make their own decisions...These are my thoughts as the boys end their Club Hockey experience. 

Great post!

HockeyDadx3

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #1021 on: February 13, 2018, 07:20:33 AM »
I have been involved in the sport of Travel Hockey for the past 11 years.  I have two boys, and they both started playing hockey at Mite B and currently,  the oldest son is completing a successful season at Midget 16AA, while my younger son completes his final Bantam AA season.  We have avoided the AAA level due to academic and financial considerations.  I have listened to parents that have personally participated, and watched their boys, play at all levels from Mite B, thru Juniors, and beyond.   In speaking to these parents, it occurred to me to "work the journey from the destination."  Where do you want your son/daughter to finish their hockey career?  College, Juniors, AAA, Semi-Pro, Europe, NHL?  How much to you want to spend to arrive at that destination?  Does your son/daughter share your passion? 

In speaking to a informed hockey dad, he had the opportunity to play Juniors as a teenager in Canada.  He also had the opportunity to attend College and become an Engineer. He decided to forgo Juniors, attend College, while his friends moved into the ranks of Juniors for the next few years.  His friends enjoyed their experience, but only one returned to attend College and did not fully enjoy the experience due to the fact that he was "older" than the incoming freshman.  His other friends finished Juniors, lost interest in school and moved into the workforce.  In the meantime, my friend finished College and is now working as a successful engineer.  He plays hockey weekly with other men that played Youth/Travel, AA, AAA, Juniors, Semi-Pro and in the NHL.  ALL of them finish their weekly game and return to WORK the next day.  In speaking to a BCHL Head Coach, he informed me that the average NHL career is 3 years and that 90% of former NHL players need to find employment at the end of their careers.  Although this may not be indicative of everyone, my point is, everyone ends up at the same spot....

My boys have had an amazing journey playing youth hockey while my wife and I have watched them develop into responsible young men and good hockey players.  We have traveled throughout the United States and Canada to participate in Tournaments which enabled the kids to see and experience a world they may never know.  Furthermore, they have made amazing friendships that will last long past their hockey careers.  Next season, my boys will play together on the same team, High School, for the first time since Mites.  I recognize that High School isn't quite the level of AAA or some AA teams but nonetheless, where does their journey end?  I fully believe that they love the game and that they can play competitive hockey for as long as they like.  The values, ethics and ability to work as a team, that they learned playing this game, will hopefully make them a valuable asset while pursuing any future endeavors.  Everyone, including the players, must make their own decisions...These are my thoughts as the boys end their Club Hockey experience. 


Great post!




Someone pass this along to Crash

goonhockey

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #1022 on: February 13, 2018, 07:42:05 AM »
where is crash?!

orangecone

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #1023 on: February 13, 2018, 08:14:44 AM »
I have been involved in the sport of Travel Hockey for the past 11 years.  I have two boys, and they both started playing hockey at Mite B and currently,  the oldest son is completing a successful season at Midget 16AA, while my younger son completes his final Bantam AA season.  We have avoided the AAA level due to academic and financial considerations.  I have listened to parents that have personally participated, and watched their boys, play at all levels from Mite B, thru Juniors, and beyond.   In speaking to these parents, it occurred to me to "work the journey from the destination."  Where do you want your son/daughter to finish their hockey career?  College, Juniors, AAA, Semi-Pro, Europe, NHL?  How much to you want to spend to arrive at that destination?  Does your son/daughter share your passion? 

In speaking to a informed hockey dad, he had the opportunity to play Juniors as a teenager in Canada.  He also had the opportunity to attend College and become an Engineer. He decided to forgo Juniors, attend College, while his friends moved into the ranks of Juniors for the next few years.  His friends enjoyed their experience, but only one returned to attend College and did not fully enjoy the experience due to the fact that he was "older" than the incoming freshman.  His other friends finished Juniors, lost interest in school and moved into the workforce.  In the meantime, my friend finished College and is now working as a successful engineer.  He plays hockey weekly with other men that played Youth/Travel, AA, AAA, Juniors, Semi-Pro and in the NHL.  ALL of them finish their weekly game and return to WORK the next day.  In speaking to a BCHL Head Coach, he informed me that the average NHL career is 3 years and that 90% of former NHL players need to find employment at the end of their careers.  Although this may not be indicative of everyone, my point is, everyone ends up at the same spot....

My boys have had an amazing journey playing youth hockey while my wife and I have watched them develop into responsible young men and good hockey players.  We have traveled throughout the United States and Canada to participate in Tournaments which enabled the kids to see and experience a world they may never know.  Furthermore, they have made amazing friendships that will last long past their hockey careers.  Next season, my boys will play together on the same team, High School, for the first time since Mites.  I recognize that High School isn't quite the level of AAA or some AA teams but nonetheless, where does their journey end?  I fully believe that they love the game and that they can play competitive hockey for as long as they like.  The values, ethics and ability to work as a team, that they learned playing this game, will hopefully make them a valuable asset while pursuing any future endeavors.  Everyone, including the players, must make their own decisions...These are my thoughts as the boys end their Club Hockey experience. 
The best part of this that most parents don't get..... "Does your son or daughter share your passion?" A definitely
important question and should be addressed by the age of 13/14. Great post, friend.

lcadad

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #1024 on: February 13, 2018, 09:34:25 AM »
I do not believe the AA Flight system is beneficial to AA and I questioned the politics and lack of transparency involved, and was proven 100% correct.  I certainly was not alone in that regard.  The Vacaville fiasco was just part of a continuum of issues dating back to last season.


Someone recently opined that kids should all just play 'A' because AA and A isn't that different.  I don't think that opinion is based in reality or experience.  The difference between 'A' and 'AA' is substantial, and there is no need to bring opinions into it.  Most clubs have AA and A teams, and sometimes those teams practice and scrimmage.  They can tell you how those scrimmages go.  If Peewee AA teams were to play their house Bantam A teams in a no-check game, a lot of the AA teams would beat their Bantam A teams.  This is not to say that there aren't some really good kids in 'A', because there are always kids in 'AA' who would do well in 'AAA'.


In general the difference is that at 'AA' and 'AAA' there is more overall parity.  Kids have the puck on their stick for less time, and the speed of the game and the level of defensive play and back checking is much higher.  Obviously the goaltending tends to be better as well.  Before people lose their minds over these statements I want to repeat that these are aggregate statements and not a value judgement as to the ability of any individual kids.  You can see that year to year kids are able to progress from one level to another, sometimes across age divisions and letter boundaries and have success.  Nobody should take these statements personally as an insult to their kid.  It just happens to be that in general AA teams are substantially better than A teams, who are substantially better than BB, on down the line.


Every so often a team for whatever reason isn't allowed to play AA when they clearly are AA level.  Or in AA this year, there is a Bantam AAA team playing in AA, for completely understandable, justifiable and well within the rules reasons.


That essentially ruins things for everyone else, as those teams cruise through the season demolishing most everyone they face.  Sure they might stumble on a particular day, and there might even be a giant upset that occurs, but more often than not, what everyone expects to happen, happens and David does not slay Goliath.


Every time this occurs it astounds me how little regard there is for the rest of the teams (as many as 18+) who were correctly placed in the appropriate level, who essentially have their season ruined by an uncaring CAHA organization who prioritizes things entirely based on the number of A's in your division.  So long as this is going to be the reality, it behooves people to want to see their kids improve and have a realistic option for moving them into AAA, but in California this just isn't possible for the vast majority of kids, and that is the main problem.


For youth hockey to grow in California, the AAA level needs to grow, and not be artificially limited the way it is currently.  The best thing for 99% of kids is to be playing other kids in their birth year.  This is what AAA offers, and is the best way to get an idea of how your kid is developing vs their peers.  If there were more local AAA teams to play there would be more AAA games that involve a drive and not plane fare, hotels and missed school days.  Over time more kids would be included and the average level of play would improve.   But CAHA says this is wrong, and they need to limit AAA. 


It's a nice fantasy, that people will all in unison just move their kids to 'A' as a CAHA protest, but that simply isn't going to happen.  Every season there is a team or even a few at the top or bottom of any division that could participate and perhaps in some cases benefit from having moved up or down.  But for the most part, teams are in the divisions they are in, because they wouldn't face any competition or experience any challenge or growth if they were in a lower division, and that is very much true in 'AA'.   


In general, older teams are more successful in competition.  This is proven time and time again.   The reality of AA is that you have every sort of age mix possible and thus the likelihood of playing kids older is much greater when you are a 1st year player, and the results are often predictable.


It appears that what is going to happen with the Flight system in AA is that it is going to start to become a place for younger teams to slot in at AA.  At the Peewee level, AA is (ab)used by the AAA franchise clubs to get their "future AAA minor" Peewee kids a chance to face a higher level of competition. 


That may or may not benefit those kids, but it surely does very little for the older kids who have to face them, and the stupidity of the way games are often officiated, with the refs essentially protecting the younger kids in complete ignorance of the actual rulebook and legal body contact.    This year in AA, the Ducks managed to maneuver their 06/07 team into Flight1.  They then went on to get beat up all season by the legit flight1 teams, came in last, and on the way lost to Flight2 teams 3x, while also managing by some strange coincidence to never ever face the +80 goal differential Flight2 team.  Funny how that happened BTW, considering that team played every other socal team multiple times.


Which brings me to the Flighting.  Lots of people were concerned that bias would lead to bad flighting as well as deny the inevitable outcomes that occur each season as there are always teams that start the season behind others which have an early season advantage in coach and roster continuity, only to develop into playoff contenders by season end.  CAHA basically just lied about this, and admitted later that they flighted teams pre-jamboree and really only looked at jamboree results to determine whether or not teams on their bubble list should be moved.


And how did they do?


Peewee AA, Flight2 team won playin 5-2
Bantam AA, Flight2 team won playin 4-0
U-16 AA, Flight 2 team lost playin 3-4


Well done CAHA, take a victory lap.  Your emergency "well if we made a small booboo this will fix it"  playin mechanism just validates that people told you they were not confident in your assessment system, and for good reason.  Sure it's nice to goto playdowns, but that wasn't the point -- the point was that CAHA sold everyone that placement would ensure more competition for everyone, but all you did was screw over teams that deserved to be in the top flight and denied them the very thing this system was supposed to insure. 


Furthermore, as the season started for Peewee AA, there were 4 Norcal teams.  We played 1!  All season.  One was dropped to A, and the other 3 were placed in Flight1.  Again, CAHA you exist to provide scheduling for Norcal and Socal teams to face each other. You have no other reason for being, and if you now are primarily interested in finding ways to make sure that far fewer socal teams play the Norcal teams, you should go back to your origination story and try and find the thread you've lost along the way.


I don't know the Bantam teams the way you all do, but in talking to some of my friends who have kids in the division, as well as looking at results, it looks like Bantam had multiple teams that were misplaced, and I would have to say at this point that the same was true in PeeweeAA.  CAHA's evaluation system should get an F this year.


Next year CAHA says it's going to do better.  The question is, why should anyone believe them?





trans4761

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #1025 on: February 13, 2018, 09:52:45 AM »
I do not believe the AA Flight system is beneficial to AA and I questioned the politics and lack of transparency involved, and was proven 100% correct.  I certainly was not alone in that regard.  The Vacaville fiasco was just part of a continuum of issues dating back to last season.


Someone recently opined that kids should all just play 'A' because AA and A isn't that different.  I don't think that opinion is based in reality or experience.  The difference between 'A' and 'AA' is substantial, and there is no need to bring opinions into it.  Most clubs have AA and A teams, and sometimes those teams practice and scrimmage.  They can tell you how those scrimmages go.  If Peewee AA teams were to play their house Bantam A teams in a no-check game, a lot of the AA teams would beat their Bantam A teams.  This is not to say that there aren't some really good kids in 'A', because there are always kids in 'AA' who would do well in 'AAA'.


In general the difference is that at 'AA' and 'AAA' there is more overall parity.  Kids have the puck on their stick for less time, and the speed of the game and the level of defensive play and back checking is much higher.  Obviously the goaltending tends to be better as well.  Before people lose their minds over these statements I want to repeat that these are aggregate statements and not a value judgement as to the ability of any individual kids.  You can see that year to year kids are able to progress from one level to another, sometimes across age divisions and letter boundaries and have success.  Nobody should take these statements personally as an insult to their kid.  It just happens to be that in general AA teams are substantially better than A teams, who are substantially better than BB, on down the line.


Every so often a team for whatever reason isn't allowed to play AA when they clearly are AA level.  Or in AA this year, there is a Bantam AAA team playing in AA, for completely understandable, justifiable and well within the rules reasons.


That essentially ruins things for everyone else, as those teams cruise through the season demolishing most everyone they face.  Sure they might stumble on a particular day, and there might even be a giant upset that occurs, but more often than not, what everyone expects to happen, happens and David does not slay Goliath.


Every time this occurs it astounds me how little regard there is for the rest of the teams (as many as 18+) who were correctly placed in the appropriate level, who essentially have their season ruined by an uncaring CAHA organization who prioritizes things entirely based on the number of A's in your division.  So long as this is going to be the reality, it behooves people to want to see their kids improve and have a realistic option for moving them into AAA, but in California this just isn't possible for the vast majority of kids, and that is the main problem.


For youth hockey to grow in California, the AAA level needs to grow, and not be artificially limited the way it is currently.  The best thing for 99% of kids is to be playing other kids in their birth year.  This is what AAA offers, and is the best way to get an idea of how your kid is developing vs their peers.  If there were more local AAA teams to play there would be more AAA games that involve a drive and not plane fare, hotels and missed school days.  Over time more kids would be included and the average level of play would improve.   But CAHA says this is wrong, and they need to limit AAA. 


It's a nice fantasy, that people will all in unison just move their kids to 'A' as a CAHA protest, but that simply isn't going to happen.  Every season there is a team or even a few at the top or bottom of any division that could participate and perhaps in some cases benefit from having moved up or down.  But for the most part, teams are in the divisions they are in, because they wouldn't face any competition or experience any challenge or growth if they were in a lower division, and that is very much true in 'AA'.   


In general, older teams are more successful in competition.  This is proven time and time again.   The reality of AA is that you have every sort of age mix possible and thus the likelihood of playing kids older is much greater when you are a 1st year player, and the results are often predictable.


It appears that what is going to happen with the Flight system in AA is that it is going to start to become a place for younger teams to slot in at AA.  At the Peewee level, AA is (ab)used by the AAA franchise clubs to get their "future AAA minor" Peewee kids a chance to face a higher level of competition. 


That may or may not benefit those kids, but it surely does very little for the older kids who have to face them, and the stupidity of the way games are often officiated, with the refs essentially protecting the younger kids in complete ignorance of the actual rulebook and legal body contact.    This year in AA, the Ducks managed to maneuver their 06/07 team into Flight1.  They then went on to get beat up all season by the legit flight1 teams, came in last, and on the way lost to Flight2 teams 3x, while also managing by some strange coincidence to never ever face the +80 goal differential Flight2 team.  Funny how that happened BTW, considering that team played every other socal team multiple times.


Which brings me to the Flighting.  Lots of people were concerned that bias would lead to bad flighting as well as deny the inevitable outcomes that occur each season as there are always teams that start the season behind others which have an early season advantage in coach and roster continuity, only to develop into playoff contenders by season end.  CAHA basically just lied about this, and admitted later that they flighted teams pre-jamboree and really only looked at jamboree results to determine whether or not teams on their bubble list should be moved.


And how did they do?


Peewee AA, Flight2 team won playin 5-2
Bantam AA, Flight2 team won playin 4-0
U-16 AA, Flight 2 team lost playin 3-4


Well done CAHA, take a victory lap.  Your emergency "well if we made a small booboo this will fix it"  playin mechanism just validates that people told you they were not confident in your assessment system, and for good reason.  Sure it's nice to goto playdowns, but that wasn't the point -- the point was that CAHA sold everyone that placement would ensure more competition for everyone, but all you did was screw over teams that deserved to be in the top flight and denied them the very thing this system was supposed to insure. 


Furthermore, as the season started for Peewee AA, there were 4 Norcal teams.  We played 1!  All season.  One was dropped to A, and the other 3 were placed in Flight1.  Again, CAHA you exist to provide scheduling for Norcal and Socal teams to face each other. You have no other reason for being, and if you now are primarily interested in finding ways to make sure that far fewer socal teams play the Norcal teams, you should go back to your origination story and try and find the thread you've lost along the way.


I don't know the Bantam teams the way you all do, but in talking to some of my friends who have kids in the division, as well as looking at results, it looks like Bantam had multiple teams that were misplaced, and I would have to say at this point that the same was true in PeeweeAA.  CAHA's evaluation system should get an F this year.


Next year CAHA says it's going to do better.  The question is, why should anyone believe them?


War and Peace seemed like a faster read.

6607

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #1026 on: February 13, 2018, 10:27:08 AM »
icadad, having watched the Flyers throughout the season, I would agree that they pass the eye test for Flight 1, and that would seemingly be confirmed by their record in Flight 2.  That being said, one caveat and one question.  The caveat would be that the David’s landed a number of near misses as well.  the question and this applies to the Bantam Saints as well is how did they fare against Flight 1 teams in SCAHA, tournament and exhibition play?

Fowlmood

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #1027 on: February 13, 2018, 10:57:08 AM »
Exactly!!! Well put Trans.

lcadad

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #1028 on: February 13, 2018, 11:52:52 AM »
With limited opportunities, more often than not we were competitive, but it's hard to point to SCAHA games.  We had a lot of reconfiguration going on, and had 2 kids quit the team over the course of the season.  Lines and even the D group was in flux until the last month or so.

At the Jamboree we lost to OC1 by a goal and outshot them.  Later in preseason we played em again and lost 7-1, again with shots about even.  A few weeks back we played OC1 again in SCAHA and we were up by a goal with 2 minutes left and managed to lose to them with 12 seconds left or something embarrassing like that.

Early in the season we had a bunch of close Flight1 games we lost by one or 2 goals.   We tied Saints1 5-5 coming back from a 3 goal deficit in the 3rd, which is something you typically don't do when another team is just way better than you.  We had some terrible outings vs. Gulls1 I'd rather forget.

We played well against the JK1's 2x, losing games we could have won, but they smoked us in Vegas at silversticks 4-1 and the game was not as close as the score indicated.

At any rate you can see our whole history here

Overall, we just thought we had the pedigree and background that indicated we would compete in Flight1 and that there was evidence we would do so.  We started off with 4 '05's who played AA last season, as well as some strong Peewee A players from Bakersfield.  Our team is mostly '05 with 3 '06's.  Although the Flyers didn't have a PWA team last year, their PW BB team was dominant, and could clearly have played A last season, and players from that group have done very well in Flight2 this year as the point totals can attest to. 

We also had a kid from the Bears A team, who for reasons I won't go into, asked for a release to return to the Bears AA, who happily took him back.  Valencia did not have to allow that to happen but they looked at the situation and in consideration of the kid, ok'd it when a lot of clubs would have said no.

I stated after the jamboree that CAHA did not have enough evidence to flight the division and in so doing exclude our team and the ID's and I was right.  By their stated rules, if they couldn't do it fairly and with confidence, they wouldn't flight it.  They had the evidence, but they went ahead and just did it anyway.  Of course what we found out is that, and I quote CAHA: "you were never considered for Flight1.  Your games were used to determine whether the teams you faced should be in Flight1."

That would have been nice to know before the Jamboree, and the pre-season games we sweated out.   I don't know what research they did to determine that our team was a "mid flight2 team" but they claimed that is what our club told them, which I know is complete BS and never happened. 

« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 11:55:44 AM by lcadad »

lcadad

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #1029 on: February 13, 2018, 11:56:26 AM »
Quote
War and Peace seemed like a faster read.

So Trans, you are saying you read War and Peace?

Pistonkev

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #1030 on: February 13, 2018, 12:25:33 PM »
Quote
War and Peace seemed like a faster read.

So Trans, you are saying you read War and Peace?
   ;D lol

trans4761

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #1031 on: February 13, 2018, 12:36:39 PM »
Quote
War and Peace seemed like a faster read.

So Trans, you are saying you read War and Peace?
Opra's reading club

WCHP

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #1032 on: February 13, 2018, 12:37:21 PM »
I need to make a sandwich before I read those

MO-ICETIME

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #1033 on: February 13, 2018, 02:26:52 PM »
That would have been nice to know before the Jamboree, and the pre-season games we sweated out.   I don't know what research they did to determine that our team was a "mid flight2 team" but they claimed that is what our club told them, which I know is complete BS and never happened.


--------------------------------------
Actually it did happen and I can confirm 100%..... Nice read also! LOL!
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 02:28:11 PM by MO-ICETIME »

Puck Yeah

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Re: Predictions for AA?
« Reply #1034 on: February 13, 2018, 07:18:20 PM »

And how did they do?


Peewee AA, Flight2 team won playin 5-2
Bantam AA, Flight2 team won playin 4-0
U-16 AA, Flight 2 team lost playin 3-4


Well done CAHA, take a victory lap. 



PW AA Flight 1 only won 4 games all season and were -44 on goal diff.
BTN AA Flight 1 won 6 of 18 and were -23
Midget Flight 1  won 2 games and were -35


I don't think a win or a close game in a Flight 2 vs 8th place Flight 1 tells a story of a strong Flight 2 teams that would have been contenders.  Just the opposite.  It paints a picture of very weak Flight 1 teams at the bottom of the standings.


Flighting in Midgets worked out well according to the Midget parents I have spoken with.  There weren't dozens of 10-0 games and for the most part each flight played other teams with at least some parity.  A good way to develop.


Trying not to be personal, but your posts come across as someone that has are real animosity toward CAHA without supporting evidence.  You accuse them of corruption and collusion, that is a charge that should not be tossed about so easily.  Not liking the current system does not rise to the level of corruption.


And respectfully,


"they got it all wrong" is not a solution to the problems you believe exist.