Bantam AAA major

[rmackintosh]

The issue is why kids feel the need to leave SoCal once they leave Bantams. HS is not very competitive, Tier II is only OK, and Tier I only offers two teams, despite the fact we're in a big market. It always behooves the customer to have more options, not to have a governing body manipulate the market. Meaning, CAHA should allow local teams to succeed and fail on their own merits, and let the market dictate their fate. Until USA Hockey intervenes, it seems the purge of kids out of SoCal seeking better options will continue, which is a shame.     

I think it is a chicken or the egg thing. I think the reason solid AAA kids leave is BECAUSE there is not enough talent around them--they have reached the top of the pyramid, so to speak, and there is just not enough of them here to make staying worth while. I don't think it is because there is not another watered down AAA team in the next town they could join if they stayed instead.

[Strawman]

The issue is why kids feel the need to leave SoCal once they leave Bantams. HS is not very competitive, Tier II is only OK, and Tier I only offers two teams, despite the fact we're in a big market. It always behooves the customer to have more options, not to have a governing body manipulate the market. Meaning, CAHA should allow local teams to succeed and fail on their own merits, and let the market dictate their fate. Until USA Hockey intervenes, it seems the purge of kids out of SoCal seeking better options will continue, which is a shame.     

I think it is a chicken or the egg thing. I think the reason solid AAA kids leave is BECAUSE there is not enough talent around them--they have reached the top of the pyramid, so to speak, and there is just not enough of them here to make staying worth while. I don't think it is because there is not another watered down AAA team in the next town they could join if they stayed instead.

I agree with you, but that still doesn't explain why so many AA players leave CA during and right after bantam. Several of those I know are leaving because for whatever the reason (politics, lack of room, or something else) they can't (or don't care to) break into one of the two AAA teams in Socal, so they have literally hit a dead end -- even though they might prefer to stay here longer they leave. It's a really, really sad situation when you think about it.

[KickSave]

I don’t think more AAA is the point. Giving other clubs the chance to have AAA is. There is no easy or perfect answer, but giving the big three the only AAA just sucks.

[notTHATdad]

There might be an opportunity in Socal for additional teams, but the GSE attempt this year seems to show that there just aren't enough players in Norcal for it (yet).


I'd be curious from those closer to what happened to know what happened with the Gulls AAA.

[notTHATdad]

The issue is why kids feel the need to leave SoCal once they leave Bantams. HS is not very competitive, Tier II is only OK, and Tier I only offers two teams, despite the fact we're in a big market. It always behooves the customer to have more options, not to have a governing body manipulate the market. Meaning, CAHA should allow local teams to succeed and fail on their own merits, and let the market dictate their fate. Until USA Hockey intervenes, it seems the purge of kids out of SoCal seeking better options will continue, which is a shame.     

I think it is a chicken or the egg thing. I think the reason solid AAA kids leave is BECAUSE there is not enough talent around them--they have reached the top of the pyramid, so to speak, and there is just not enough of them here to make staying worth while. I don't think it is because there is not another watered down AAA team in the next town they could join if they stayed instead.

I honestly don't think that's why people leave - certainly not the ones I've spoken to.


If you look at a typical AAA schedule for a CA team, they only play one home and one away game against each other. 4-6 games including exhibitions out of a 35-45 game schedule. The rest of the games are with teams from out of state or out of country where the competition is just fine. The CA teams tend to be in the top half of the rankings, with most of them in the top third. Each team has stars and players that struggle, but they are all largely capable of playing at that level (thus the rankings). T1EHL membership ensures that they are playing other great teams. That part isn't a problem.


People certainly don't leave for cost. East coast private boarding schools can be as much as 65k/yr.


My sense is that the reason people leave is for exposure for scholarship/draft possibilities, and the desire for a more all consuming hockey experience. When people get really serious (delusional?) about their kids there is a fear that they will not be seen out here - that when the draft comes, or the scholarships are rewarded, their kid will go unnoticed. There may be truth to that, though I've spoken to a number of hockey people (including pro agents) that say it's not something to worry about these days, particularly at the AAA level. And the clubs are getting better at ensuring visibility, because they know that sells.


The other piece is that you cannot match the ice time and experience that you get at an eastern school. A friend of mine left for Canada with his 02 a year ago and 5 days on the ice at the school is pretty common, with a 70+ game season. Playoffs in his league are best of 5 or best of 7.


The downsides are many though. Beyond cost, I know kids that are attending high school classes literally in the back room of a rink. Not much of a high school experience. At Tahoe I guess you get the choice of the local (pretty rural) school or online. You better be damn sure its what your kid wants to do with his life. Seems like a pretty serious one-way street for a 15 year old.

[rmackintosh]

The issue is why kids feel the need to leave SoCal once they leave Bantams. HS is not very competitive, Tier II is only OK, and Tier I only offers two teams, despite the fact we're in a big market. It always behooves the customer to have more options, not to have a governing body manipulate the market. Meaning, CAHA should allow local teams to succeed and fail on their own merits, and let the market dictate their fate. Until USA Hockey intervenes, it seems the purge of kids out of SoCal seeking better options will continue, which is a shame.     

I think it is a chicken or the egg thing. I think the reason solid AAA kids leave is BECAUSE there is not enough talent around them--they have reached the top of the pyramid, so to speak, and there is just not enough of them here to make staying worth while. I don't think it is because there is not another watered down AAA team in the next town they could join if they stayed instead.

I agree with you, but that still doesn't explain why so many AA players leave CA during and right after bantam. Several of those I know are leaving because for whatever the reason (politics, lack of room, or something else) they can't (or don't care to) break into one of the two AAA teams in Socal, so they have literally hit a dead end -- even though they might prefer to stay here longer they leave. It's a really, really sad situation when you think about it.

Gotcha. I don't know why AA kids are leaving...perhaps it is for the same reason. They stayed in AA because they thought it better than AAA, then, finally outgrew AA for real and they had same situation the other AAA kids face...not enough critical mass to make it worth staying. Kids leaving at such an early age IS sad...and we for one don't like to think/consider it because of the value we place on our son being with the family.


I will say this, and take heat for it I am sure, but my son had a GREAT 3 years in AA up into first year bantam last year. And last years Bantam year was the best of all of them. And that was a direct result of the Flight system. All ten teams in Flight 1 were competitive and any team could beat you on any given day--you could argue the Bears were a anomoly, but they were challenged and even beaten once. In past years a CAHA weekend was a hodge podge of weak games not worth traveling half a state away for, some real laughers and the occaisional good game. In Bantam Flight 1 last year--it worked and it worked well. I am sure others in other age groups and/or flights results may have varied...but in Bantam, it was a GREAT year.

[rmackintosh]

The issue is why kids feel the need to leave SoCal once they leave Bantams. HS is not very competitive, Tier II is only OK, and Tier I only offers two teams, despite the fact we're in a big market. It always behooves the customer to have more options, not to have a governing body manipulate the market. Meaning, CAHA should allow local teams to succeed and fail on their own merits, and let the market dictate their fate. Until USA Hockey intervenes, it seems the purge of kids out of SoCal seeking better options will continue, which is a shame.     

I think it is a chicken or the egg thing. I think the reason solid AAA kids leave is BECAUSE there is not enough talent around them--they have reached the top of the pyramid, so to speak, and there is just not enough of them here to make staying worth while. I don't think it is because there is not another watered down AAA team in the next town they could join if they stayed instead.

I honestly don't think that's why people leave - certainly not the ones I've spoken to.


If you look at a typical AAA schedule for a CA team, they only play one home and one away game against each other. 4-6 games including exhibitions out of a 35-45 game schedule. The rest of the games are with teams from out of state or out of country where the competition is just fine. The CA teams tend to be in the top half of the rankings, with most of them in the top third. Each team has stars and players that struggle, but they are all largely capable of playing at that level (thus the rankings). T1EHL membership ensures that they are playing other great teams. That part isn't a problem.


People certainly don't leave for cost. East coast private boarding schools can be as much as 65k/yr.


My sense is that the reason people leave is for exposure for scholarship/draft possibilities, and the desire for a more all consuming hockey experience. When people get really serious (delusional?) about their kids there is a fear that they will not be seen out here - that when the draft comes, or the scholarships are rewarded, their kid will go unnoticed. There may be truth to that, though I've spoken to a number of hockey people (including pro agents) that say it's not something to worry about these days, particularly at the AAA level. And the clubs are getting better at ensuring visibility, because they know that sells.


The other piece is that you cannot match the ice time and experience that you get at an eastern school. A friend of mine left for Canada with his 02 a year ago and 5 days on the ice at the school is pretty common, with a 70+ game season. Playoffs in his league are best of 5 or best of 7.


The downsides are many though. Beyond cost, I know kids that are attending high school classes literally in the back room of a rink. Not much of a high school experience. At Tahoe I guess you get the choice of the local (pretty rural) school or online. You better be damn sure its what your kid wants to do with his life. Seems like a pretty serious one-way street for a 15 year old.

...good points...

[JackBender]

Per the Flight system... it isn't a bad idea necessarily, and it could be viewed as a step in the right direction for overall competitiveness. The beef with CAHA is overregulation BEFORE teams are even assembled. Let the teams/organizations fail or succeed on their own merits, on the ice.  Can't argue with that. However, it gets slippery when these decisions are being made behind closed doors with no clear qualifying method. CAHA's mandate is to promote youth hockey in California from Mites through Midgets, so every decision should begin with asking themselves if that is being achieved. If the answer is no (like consolidating power and limiting teams), it should NOT be done. Pretty simple.  [size=78%]  [/size]

[socalhockeydad]

Whenever people comment on Prep School's, especially ones back east, I always wonder how many of them have any 1st hand experience with them...my guess is very little.


Let me add another perspective as I went to a top prep school in CT...No I did not play hockey there, I wish I did but I sucked...still do but thats besides the point. My son will go back east to play for a New England Prep school, not sure which or when but that is what we want for him. He has decent grades so we are hoping hockey is a path to not only get him in but help with costs. So, at this point you are probably asking why...do we think he will be in the NHL and this is the path? Not part of the decision at all - the main reason is education he will receive + the connections to top colleges + networking. New England Prep schools still operate under the "old boys network" and going to one greatly improves your chances of getting into a top college if you have the grades. Is hockey part of that college plan? I hope of course but that isnt something we are banking on.


The connections you make at those prep schools last a lifetime and have paid huge dividends thoughout my career. Granted most of the connections are elitist assholes who I wouldnt want as friends...but hey, they are great at getting your resume to the right people!


Are all prep schools the same, of course not - just adding my 2 cents.

[JackBender]

Whenever people comment on Prep School's, especially ones back east, I always wonder how many of them have any 1st hand experience with them...my guess is very little.


Let me add another perspective as I went to a top prep school in CT...No I did not play hockey there, I wish I did but I sucked...still do but thats besides the point. My son will go back east to play for a New England Prep school, not sure which or when but that is what we want for him. He has decent grades so we are hoping hockey is a path to not only get him in but help with costs. So, at this point you are probably asking why...do we think he will be in the NHL and this is the path? Not part of the decision at all - the main reason is education he will receive + the connections to top colleges + networking. New England Prep schools still operate under the "old boys network" and going to one greatly improves your chances of getting into a top college if you have the grades. Is hockey part of that college plan? I hope of course but that isnt something we are banking on.


The connections you make at those prep schools last a lifetime and have paid huge dividends thoughout my career. Granted most of the connections are elitist assholes who I wouldnt want as friends...but hey, they are great at getting your resume to the right people!


Are all prep schools the same, of course not - just adding my 2 cents.

A unique challenge for CAHA is that so many people here are transplants, so few have a problem traveling to other places or leaving all together. Few cities or areas really have a sense of community. Again, boundaries might help this. Allowing entire teams to play up when young also undermines the entire foundation.     

[trans4761]

Whenever people comment on Prep School's, especially ones back east, I always wonder how many of them have any 1st hand experience with them...my guess is very little.


Let me add another perspective as I went to a top prep school in CT...No I did not play hockey there, I wish I did but I sucked...still do but thats besides the point. My son will go back east to play for a New England Prep school, not sure which or when but that is what we want for him. He has decent grades so we are hoping hockey is a path to not only get him in but help with costs. So, at this point you are probably asking why...do we think he will be in the NHL and this is the path? Not part of the decision at all - the main reason is education he will receive + the connections to top colleges + networking. New England Prep schools still operate under the "old boys network" and going to one greatly improves your chances of getting into a top college if you have the grades. Is hockey part of that college plan? I hope of course but that isnt something we are banking on.


The connections you make at those prep schools last a lifetime and have paid huge dividends thoughout my career. Granted most of the connections are elitist assholes who I wouldnt want as friends...but hey, they are great at getting your resume to the right people!


Are all prep schools the same, of course not - just adding my 2 cents.

A unique challenge for CAHA is that so many people here are transplants, so few have a problem traveling to other places or leaving all together. Few cities or areas really have a sense of community. Again, boundaries might help this. Allowing entire teams to play up when young also undermines the entire foundation.   

With all do respect, if a good education is the real goal, there are PLENTY of top quality schools much closer, some even in So Cal.
I'm sure prep school is the answer to some, I just don't get it.
Now if the goal is to show off to co-workers or to the hockey snobs, so be it.  But call it what it is.

[HM]

There are plenty of top notch schools in California but for many, including myself, it's about trying to balance education with the travel demands of hockey. Some  AAA Bantam players can expect to travel every month from September to February.  If the player is Bantam major this doesn't  include districts or possibly Nationals. A kid could miss 4-5 days of school for each of those events. That is a lot of time away especially so for players carrying a heavy academic load.

[socalhockeydad]

Whenever people comment on Prep School's, especially ones back east, I always wonder how many of them have any 1st hand experience with them...my guess is very little.


Let me add another perspective as I went to a top prep school in CT...No I did not play hockey there, I wish I did but I sucked...still do but thats besides the point. My son will go back east to play for a New England Prep school, not sure which or when but that is what we want for him. He has decent grades so we are hoping hockey is a path to not only get him in but help with costs. So, at this point you are probably asking why...do we think he will be in the NHL and this is the path? Not part of the decision at all - the main reason is education he will receive + the connections to top colleges + networking. New England Prep schools still operate under the "old boys network" and going to one greatly improves your chances of getting into a top college if you have the grades. Is hockey part of that college plan? I hope of course but that isnt something we are banking on.


The connections you make at those prep schools last a lifetime and have paid huge dividends thoughout my career. Granted most of the connections are elitist assholes who I wouldnt want as friends...but hey, they are great at getting your resume to the right people!


Are all prep schools the same, of course not - just adding my 2 cents.

With all do respect, if a good education is the real goal, there are PLENTY of top quality schools much closer, some even in So Cal.
I'm sure prep school is the answer to some, I just don't get it.
Now if the goal is to show off to co-workers or to the hockey snobs, so be it.  But call it what it is.

The BEST thing about this message board is when people comment on 1/3 of what you say and ignore the other 2/3 - that is the BEST!

[SkatingDad]

Whenever people comment on Prep School's, especially ones back east, I always wonder how many of them have any 1st hand experience with them...my guess is very little.


Let me add another perspective as I went to a top prep school in CT...No I did not play hockey there, I wish I did but I sucked...still do but thats besides the point. My son will go back east to play for a New England Prep school, not sure which or when but that is what we want for him. He has decent grades so we are hoping hockey is a path to not only get him in but help with costs. So, at this point you are probably asking why...do we think he will be in the NHL and this is the path? Not part of the decision at all - the main reason is education he will receive + the connections to top colleges + networking. New England Prep schools still operate under the "old boys network" and going to one greatly improves your chances of getting into a top college if you have the grades. Is hockey part of that college plan? I hope of course but that isnt something we are banking on.


The connections you make at those prep schools last a lifetime and have paid huge dividends thoughout my career. Granted most of the connections are elitist assholes who I wouldnt want as friends...but hey, they are great at getting your resume to the right people!


Are all prep schools the same, of course not - just adding my 2 cents.

A unique challenge for CAHA is that so many people here are transplants, so few have a problem traveling to other places or leaving all together. Few cities or areas really have a sense of community. Again, boundaries might help this. Allowing entire teams to play up when young also undermines the entire foundation.   

Allowing MItes and Squirts to play up is a huge mistake and it completely undermines the birth years that are suppose to be in those divisions.

[notTHATdad]

There are plenty of top notch schools in California but for many, including myself, it's about trying to balance education with the travel demands of hockey. Some  AAA Bantam players can expect to travel every month from September to February.  If the player is Bantam major this doesn't  include districts or possibly Nationals. A kid could miss 4-5 days of school for each of those events. That is a lot of time away especially so for players carrying a heavy academic load.

So much misinformation out there... particularly about AAA.


Tier1Elite sets up tournaments to be 2 nights maximum (plus travel) - it's one of the advantages they have over some of the other outfits, who are clearly trying to maximize hotel stays and thus their kickbacks by having 3-4 night tournaments. No idea how you'd be missing 4-5 days for each event.  You can usually leave late Thursday, miss one day, and be back Sunday night. Last year my kid missed maybe 5-6 days total playing AAA.