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Author Topic: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)  (Read 101819 times)

Strawman

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Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2019, 12:32:44 AM »
Well, lets just say that once the Wave realized they were going to play, they wanted to win the tournament, as did many of the other teams.   I have nothing against the WW or its parents, and if anything having the playoffs was something Flight2 teams could look towards given the limited opportunities offered by the CAHA Flight2 system. 



Sorry dude, but it’s pretty funny that anyone would single out WW as having been enthusiastic participants in that Flight 2 playoff shitshow last year.  That’s a good one.  Which isn’t to say that there shouldn’t be Flight 2 playoffs ... provided folks are told they’re going to happen before the season is already over.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 02:40:47 PM by Strawman »

Avcadet

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Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2019, 09:44:17 AM »
CAHA needs to end the flight system!  The bottom 4 Flight 2 teams should have been dropped to A.  Only one dropped and we can see how the other 3 did...  If CAHA would have have the guts do do this, there would have been 15 teams and no reason to flight.
A club's reputation is on the line if they field a team that they do not consider good enough to play at the level. Grossly underperforming teams/clubs will not attract players for upcoming seasons. Instead, it is left to CAHA after a half baked Jamboree with a heavy dose of politics thrown in. The impact on the team that was dropped was both financial and emotional. After the team was disbanded, almost all of the players went to other AA teams and were able to hold their own. Simply put, that dropped team would have been alright playing in Flight 2 and growing for next year.

SkatingDad

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Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2019, 10:15:39 AM »
CAHA needs to end the flight system!  The bottom 4 Flight 2 teams should have been dropped to A.  Only one dropped and we can see how the other 3 did...  If CAHA would have have the guts do do this, there would have been 15 teams and no reason to flight.
A club's reputation is on the line if they field a team that they do not consider good enough to play at the level. Grossly underperforming teams/clubs will not attract players for upcoming seasons. Instead, it is left to CAHA after a half baked Jamboree with a heavy dose of politics thrown in. The impact on the team that was dropped was both financial and emotional. After the team was disbanded, almost all of the players went to other AA teams and were able to hold their own. Simply put, that dropped team would have been alright playing in Flight 2 and growing for next year.


The issue with these teams that should drop is that they have to many A players on the roster and the AA kids can not carry them. If these teams are forced to drop, the legit AA kids will find a home on a AA team, the A players will not.  I know for a fact that all of the kids on that AA that dropped did not go to AA teams.  The remaining ones joined A teams ether at the same club or other clubs.  This is the scenario that will happen and would have happened to those other 3 teams. It is the responsibility of the coaches and club to field a legit AA team and if they can not do that then,  they should not push forward with a team that is not at an appropriate level. If the club is incapable of doing this then, CAHA should step in and force them to drop. It is not fair to the AA kids to be surrounded by A players and it is not fair to the A kids who are in over their heads. I give credit to the Wave for dropping that team.

I should add that if you are stuck in this scenario the only way out is to buy your player out of the contract.  That SUCKS!
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 10:23:40 AM by SkatingDad »

PutYourFootOnTheGas

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Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2019, 10:33:40 AM »
"Now, let's look at the Jr Sharks AAA program... they have AAA at 07, 06, 05, & 04.  That's four different birth years.  Peewee and Bantam.  Four teams in total.  And of those four teams... they have ONE WIN in CAHA.  That's pathetic, and the Jr Sharks and CAHA should be ashamed of themselves. Overall, the four teams have a combined record of 1-23. Their combined stats are 28 GA/157 GA with -131 goal differential."




Curious why you did not include the 03 (15AAA), 02 (16AAA) or 01 (18AAA) teams? Realizing of course this is a Bantam forum but you included PeeWees so. . . . . . .In 2 of those 3 cases, their records do not fit your narrative. The 15AAA are 4-2 in CAHA and top seed for upcoming state tournament. The 16AAA is 3-3 in CAHA (all teams 3-3) and are second seed in state tournament. The 18AAA team is in last place.

Listen, the Sharks absolutely have flaws but I'm not sure who would replace them to carry the Tier 1 banner in NorCal. GSE? Last time they fielded a AAA team was 15AAA in the 2016 season. They went 1-10 in CAHA and were dead last (56th out of 80 teams nationally). Santa Clara? They struggle to field top AA teams with all of them mid to low end of their respective divisions. Not exactly great candidates to take over for the bumbling Sharks. The Sharks are not as established as the Kings and Ducks. The pool of players is much smaller than Southern California. It's no wonder that they do not fair as well. Without looking up the records though, I'd venture to guess that they are becoming more competitive relative to the Kings and Ducks. I'd also argue they are pretty competitive across the country versus other Tier 1 Programs. At 05 they are 22-13 and ranked 30 out of 99 teams. Granted Ducks are 10 and Kings are 12. At 04 they are 17-15-2 and ranked 40 out of 117. Ducks are 9th and Kings are 17th.

Long argument short for JackBender. . . . . .who should replace Sharks as AAA club in NorCal? If the argument is just allow other AAA teams, then we water it all down again. Those teams ranked in the 20s and 30s become ranked in the 50s and 60s real quick. Then everyone starts whining about that approach again.




JackBender

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Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2019, 12:02:49 PM »
So 2 out of 7 Jr Sharks AAA teams aren't HORRIBLE? Strong argument. CAHA and Jr Sharks should continue as the status quo. Looking forward to seeing how that upcoming 08AAA team looks like. Maybe they'll rise from horrible to just putrid come 15U when all the talent leaves SoCal because the parents are so sick of the constant CAHA political nonsense.   


The thing is, though... it's not talent that inhibits NorCal from being competitive.  NorCal has tons of talent.  More than enough to put together a competitive AAA team at every birth year. The problem is that the Jr Sharks organization is incompetent, hockey in NorCal is a political/regional mess... and CAHA is the all-controlling governing body behind this dumpster fire.  Fix it.  Fix the Jr Sharks. 


CAHA is an expert at destroying programs and Tier divisions... so how about fixing one?       


The buck stops with CAHA, and CAHA needs to stop not only enabling but promoting this incompetence. They need to take a step back and solve the youth hockey debacle that is NorCal.  A majority of the CAHA Directors (the #1 Boob included) live in NorCal. The CAHA headquarters is in NorCal. This is their mess.


They created the two bylaws to cripple AAA hockey in SoCal. All talent now leads through Jr Ducks/Jr Kings, making them rich and competitive Nationally. Yet, in doing this... CAHA exposed the Jr Sharks as a fraud organization, and pointed a bright light on the NorCal disarray they lord over. They need to follow their rules or do away with them... because until then, they will continue to be called out for their blatant hypocrisy.


It may not happen today or tomorrow or even next week... but someone from USA Hockey will notice this mess.  Someone will take a close look at the #1 Boob and his Board of Dunderheads... and then maybe... maybe... logical, fair and consistent goals will be pursued in an attempt to actually nurture and grow the game of hockey in the State of California.     
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 12:22:28 PM by JackBender »
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PutYourFootOnTheGas

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Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2019, 01:14:02 PM »

Sorry, just because you post it, doesn't make it true. You are WAY overstating the issues with NorCal Hockey and in particular the Jr Sharks.

11AAA is 52 of 88 - middle third in country
12AAA is 68 of 95 - bottom third in country
13AAA is 30 of 99 - top third in country
14AAA is 40 of 117 - middle third in country (39th would be top third)
15AAA is 28 of 117 - top third in country
16AAA is 36 of 154 - top third in country
18AAA is 110 of 142 - bottom third in country


How does that represent 5 teams being "HORRIBLE"? I'd say 4 good, 2 average and 1 bad team. Perhaps you are really trying to argue that the Sharks are not as good as the Ducks or Kings. Ok, that's more reasonable. I've offered that it's primarily based on a much larger pool of players to create top 15 teams.


I also disagree that there is tons of talent in NorCal. Where are they? Are they playing for AA teams? If so, why isn't a single NorCal AA team in any division in 1st place in CAHA? The reality is below (GSE has multiple teams in some age groups which is why they are listed with two rankings).


12AA GSE is 89th, Santa Clara is 165th, GSE is 273rd
14AA GSE is 15th, GSE is 147th
16AA GSE is 79th, Santa Clara is 171st
18AA GSE is 122nd, GSE is 145th, Santa Clara 182nd

Doesn't appear to be a ton of talent on those teams based on rankings other than the GSE North Bantam team. So. . . . .how does CAHA fix this NorCal "dumpster fire"? Allow other clubs to have AAA teams? So we pool all these kids comprising the 160th ranked AA teams and they become magically awesome at AAA and replace the Sharks? Lol. Sorry, it just isn't that easy.

Thanks for the discussion, I really do enjoy the back and forth.




rmackintosh

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Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2019, 02:18:33 PM »

Sorry, just because you post it, doesn't make it true. You are WAY overstating the issues with NorCal Hockey and in particular the Jr Sharks.

11AAA is 52 of 88 - middle third in country
12AAA is 68 of 95 - bottom third in country
13AAA is 30 of 99 - top third in country
14AAA is 40 of 117 - middle third in country (39th would be top third)
15AAA is 28 of 117 - top third in country
16AAA is 36 of 154 - top third in country
18AAA is 110 of 142 - bottom third in country


How does that represent 5 teams being "HORRIBLE"? I'd say 4 good, 2 average and 1 bad team. Perhaps you are really trying to argue that the Sharks are not as good as the Ducks or Kings. Ok, that's more reasonable. I've offered that it's primarily based on a much larger pool of players to create top 15 teams.


I also disagree that there is tons of talent in NorCal. Where are they? Are they playing for AA teams? If so, why isn't a single NorCal AA team in any division in 1st place in CAHA? The reality is below (GSE has multiple teams in some age groups which is why they are listed with two rankings).


12AA GSE is 89th, Santa Clara is 165th, GSE is 273rd
14AA GSE is 15th, GSE is 147th
16AA GSE is 79th, Santa Clara is 171st
18AA GSE is 122nd, GSE is 145th, Santa Clara 182nd

Doesn't appear to be a ton of talent on those teams based on rankings other than the GSE North Bantam team. So. . . . .how does CAHA fix this NorCal "dumpster fire"? Allow other clubs to have AAA teams? So we pool all these kids comprising the 160th ranked AA teams and they become magically awesome at AAA and replace the Sharks? Lol. Sorry, it just isn't that easy.

Thanks for the discussion, I really do enjoy the back and forth.


SOMEBODY has been paying attention! More AAA teams is an absolute HORRIBLE idea...unless you want to water down the already watered down product even further...sheesh...

Strawman

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Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2019, 02:44:52 PM »
A club's reputation is on the line if they field a team that they do not consider good enough to play at the level. Grossly underperforming teams/clubs will not attract players for upcoming seasons.


Somebody needs to break this news flash to the clubs that field those grossly underperforming teams year after year.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 02:50:43 PM by Strawman »

Mcp04

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Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2019, 03:16:12 PM »
The belief that there are fully stocked AAA level teams in california that are being held back is ludicrous.  With the exception of the Bears last year there isn’t a AA team in California that would perform much better than the Sharks at AAA  When top California AA teams play AAA teams ranked above a #30ish ranking they haven’t done so well.  Just like the Sharks AAA.  Sure some could compete in the #30-50 ranking (like the Sharks) but is that what you are looking for?  Many of those AAA teams should be AA anyways.  The top California AA team this year lost by a wide margin to the top California AAA teams. Sure they have 1-2 players, but it ends there.  Certainly not enough for an entire roster.


The Kings and Ducks have a hard time each year putting together 3-4 lines of AAA caliber kids to compete above #20.  There is not much depth at that level in the state.  I don’t know where all this hidden talent is that can field additional AAA teams.  The Sharks are weaker than the Kings and Ducks because of lack of depth.  Nothing related to their program. 


The same A and AA kids try out for AAA, a few step up and fill vacancies.  The ones that don’t make it usually play AA.   They’re playing AA because they were unable to unseat the AAA kid.   The teams take the best players that are willing to play for them. 


There are no doubt stars among the AA ranks.  There just aren’t enough of them who are geographically concentrated. 



rmackintosh

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Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2019, 03:23:42 PM »
The belief that there are fully stocked AAA level teams in california that are being held back is ludicrous.  With the exception of the Bears last year there isn’t a AA team in California that would perform much better than the Sharks at AAA  When top California AA teams play AAA teams ranked above a #30ish ranking they haven’t done so well.  Just like the Sharks AAA.  Sure some could compete in the #30-50 ranking (like the Sharks) but is that what you are looking for?  Many of those AAA teams should be AA anyways.  The top California AA team this year lost by a wide margin to the top California AAA teams. Sure they have 1-2 players, but it ends there.  Certainly not enough for an entire roster.


The Kings and Ducks have a hard time each year putting together 3-4 lines of AAA caliber kids to compete above #20.  There is not much depth at that level in the state.  I don’t know where all this hidden talent is that can field additional AAA teams.  The Sharks are weaker than the Kings and Ducks because of lack of depth.  Nothing related to their program. 


The same A and AA kids try out for AAA, a few step up and fill vacancies.  The ones that don’t make it usually play AA.   They’re playing AA because they were unable to unseat the AAA kid.   The teams take the best players that are willing to play for them. 


There are no doubt stars among the AA ranks.  There just aren’t enough of them who are geographically concentrated. 


...exactly....

JackBender

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Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2019, 03:26:09 PM »
Goodness, the pro-CAHA plant has been exposed. Is that you, #1 Boob?  Or perhaps one of your Clovis lackeys?  Regardless, a quality of team is subjective.  I've seen them.  They're not good.  But let's be objective.  1 win at the four youngest divisions combined is objective. A 1-23 combined record. -131 Goal Differential. That's horrible by any definition.  Not average. Not below average. Not kinda bad.  It's horrible


But that's not the whole point...


The whole point is that according to CAHA bylaws, the Jr Sharks DO NOT quality for AAA teams.  At either PW level or Bantam level.  However, CAHA continues to NOT follow their own rules year after year, giving the AAA distinction to an organization that can't put together competitive teams until Midget, when the SoCal talent leaves the state.


Please explain, pro-CAHA plant?  Please explain why CAHA rules ONLY apply when they benefit the individual interests of the #1 Boob and his Board of Dunderheads?   
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 03:28:44 PM by JackBender »
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JackBender

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Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2019, 03:33:51 PM »
The Sharks are weaker than the Kings and Ducks because of lack of depth.  Nothing related to their program. 



Uh, yeah... it's related to their program. They don't ice competitive teams year after year... but CAHA keeps rewarding their incompetence.
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Mcp04

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Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2019, 03:48:02 PM »
I don’t think CAHA has done anything consistently and I have been unimpressed.  Their motivation is clear...$


They were inconsistent at the CAHA camp allowing 2003 kids who were not present to make the team even though they clearly stated that all participants must try out in person.  I doubt all out of state selectees were injured



If those are the rules then they are culpable for allowing the Sharks to field a AAA team. 


My points were based on the “belief” that there is an abundance of AAA talent that are unable to play at that level.  More AAA teams would make it worse.  As an example, the Gulls have a monopoly in the San Diego market and they don’t have a AAAteam.  They went from 5 teams 3 years ago to none.  Why?  Lack of depth.  One or two kids leave and teams unravel.  It’s an example of how thin the talent is and how fragile the fringe programs are

JackBender

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Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2019, 04:00:10 PM »
Great. Then CAHA should follow their own rules. It's one or the other... and that is what consistently pisses people off. Either allow teams to ice AAA teams as they please or follow the rules and DO NOT allow Jr Sharks to ice AAA teams at PW/Bantam when they NEVER meet minimum requirements.


One or the other.  Pick.
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Mcp04

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Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2019, 04:02:31 PM »
No argument