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Author Topic: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)  (Read 101684 times)

lcadad

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Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #75 on: February 11, 2019, 01:20:15 PM »
Any thoughts on Kings 1 winning play-in over Kings 2 to qualify for playdowns?  Kings 1 was originally slated to be the '04 Kings AA team (in flight 1) and Kings 2 to be '05 (in flight 2).  Internal politics, etc changed that plan and Kings 1 ended up winning flight 2 & Kings 2 placed 8th with 2-3 wins in flight 2 (only against the 9th place & 7th place teams).


Pretty much the first point of this thread.  At least 4 of the teams in Flight2 (Kings1, Saints2, Ducks1, Flyers) are/were as good as the Kings2, Bears2 and GSE2.


This should not have been a surprise to anyone who looked at the Jamboree scores.  As one example, Kings2 beat Flyers and Bears2 by 1 goal in the jamboree.  Said Jamboree was pretty ridiculous but anyone who saw the Kings/Flyers games would have seen a very close contest.  For the Flyers it was literally their 1st game for the team, as they had not even had a scrimmage prior.  They still were evaluating whether certain players would be on offense vs. defense.  Later in the Jamboree Flyers beat Kings1 by 1 goal.


What then does CAHA turn around and do, before the weekend is even concluded from rumors i was hearing?  They anointed Bears2 (and Kings2) to Flight1 and put Flyers, Ducks1 and Kings1 in Flight2.   Idiotic would be too kind of a term for the decision making process in light of the jamboree system, and this was during a year where you couldn't even find out the frigging scores from the Jamboree.  There was one team in Flight2 that got crushed.  They had a hard time in the Jamboree and I'm sure the parents would now agree they should have dropped.  Otherwise, Bantam AA would have been a better experience for everyone without Flighting, and certainly for the four flight2 teams that CAHA screwed over.


The problem is that this has happened both years now, where teams have gotten placed in Flight2 when they belonged in Flight1.  CAHA has shown they are inept at best, and politically motivated at worst.  The main difference this year is that the Kings and Ducks got a taste of it.


« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 01:21:47 PM by lcadad »

JackBender

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Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #76 on: February 11, 2019, 01:29:05 PM »
Well, the greatest criticism of the Flight system is probably that it doesn't predict development throughout the season. Some teams get better, and some don't. Kings 1 are probably the stronger team now because they've been winning all season, gaining confidence... while it could be argued that the Kings 2 suffered from the opposite.


I like the Flight system in many ways... but basing placement on preconceptions of the kids/teams and a twenty-minute eye test in early September is not very smart or fair. Icadad's point has been that teams get better... so instead of over-reaching and manipulating the process like always, CAHA should just let the process naturally work its way out. I tend to agree with that now.


The CAHA shills will say it was that way and people complained... but so what?  Let them complain. I tend to support a hands off approach. Let it work itself out on its own, like it always does.


So if parents/organizations want their teams to get pounded week after week... that's on them. But don't manipulate the system. Unfortunately, as usual, CAHA just can't help themselves.   
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 01:32:33 PM by JackBender »
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Fowlmood

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Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #77 on: February 12, 2019, 03:31:22 PM »
Right on Mr. Bender!

#4BobbyOrr

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Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #78 on: February 19, 2019, 12:18:10 AM »
- Each AAA team can ONLY have 1 starting goalie, 1 top line, 1 primary PP, 1 primary PK, 1 top D-pair, etc.  So the comment to me this past summer from a group of NCAA D1 coaches was "if everyone knows this, why is California going the opposite direction?  We would like to see them expand to double or triple the number of AAA teams so that more players get developed for the next level and eventually for us at the D1 level."  - that should be the ONLY type of input people need to be convinced of how to develop more players.
this one of the most important things posted on the is board in a long time. one reason why many kids are leaving the state in droves is because CAHA is purposefully reducing opportunities for kids. Dumb. They should be doing the opposite. Thank you Brad hamacher.


So will they be adding 2nd and 3rd lines of kids who could be playing top line minutes in AA to these new teams?

Pop

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Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #79 on: February 19, 2019, 11:26:02 AM »
There are only 13 kids from CA playing in the USHL, and about 40 playing D1(around 10 a year).  Of the USHL kids only 2 came from prep, 1 From SSM and 1 from CIH.  6 of those kids came from CA AAA (Ducks and Kings and 1 from Grizzly's) 1 from CYA and one from NJ AAA. And 3 didn't list where they played. Of those 13 about 5 are only playing minimal minutes and games(1 with only 5 games played).  Only a couple D1 teams have more then one CA kid on the roster.  I find it hard to believe that a group of D1 coaches are coming to CA and talking about the lack of AAA in the state.  What schools were the coaches from?  USHL puts more kids in D1 and is the only tier 1 jr league in USA. NAHL and BCHL move kids on, but much less then USHL.  If only 13 CA kids are good enough to make the USHL, where are all these skilled CA kids that will make up another team?  If there are AA kids skilled enough to play in the USHL he will be dominating AA.  Just because a team is AAA (sharks) doesn't mean the kids are good enough to move on.  The Sharks are a low ranking AAA team with no alum playing in the USHL, but is there a CA AA team that can beat them?  Are there any AA kids that should be playing 1st line AAA?  You can see by numbers you better be 1st line if you have any chance of moving on, and even most of the 1st line kids don't move on.  I don't think any kids skilled enough to move on are being passed over.

JackBender

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Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #80 on: February 19, 2019, 12:38:32 PM »
Pop... judging from your past posts, you seem to have an agenda.  You should just say what it is.   

My agenda is that I think the governing body should help grow the game... not restrict it. If clubs fail trying to ice certain teams, that's on them. Why should CAHA care?  They should be encouraging opportunity, and they should be reasonable and flexible to every club's needs and desires.  That's what a good governing body does.  They adapt to the market... not inhibit it.  It's not CAHA's job to ice teams... it's their job to expand the game and allow everyone to flourish. 


Expand the game.  Allow teams to have freedom.  This shouldn't be scary to anyone... unless you have an agenda (which CAHA does, and I suspect you do as well).
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 12:44:11 PM by JackBender »
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Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #81 on: February 19, 2019, 12:42:56 PM »
There are only 13 kids from CA playing in the USHL, and about 40 playing D1(around 10 a year).  Of the USHL kids only 2 came from prep, 1 From SSM and 1 from CIH.  6 of those kids came from CA AAA (Ducks and Kings and 1 from Grizzly's) 1 from CYA and one from NJ AAA. And 3 didn't list where they played. Of those 13 about 5 are only playing minimal minutes and games(1 with only 5 games played).  Only a couple D1 teams have more then one CA kid on the roster.  I find it hard to believe that a group of D1 coaches are coming to CA and talking about the lack of AAA in the state.  What schools were the coaches from?  USHL puts more kids in D1 and is the only tier 1 jr league in USA. NAHL and BCHL move kids on, but much less then USHL.  If only 13 CA kids are good enough to make the USHL, where are all these skilled CA kids that will make up another team?  If there are AA kids skilled enough to play in the USHL he will be dominating AA.  Just because a team is AAA (sharks) doesn't mean the kids are good enough to move on.  The Sharks are a low ranking AAA team with no alum playing in the USHL, but is there a CA AA team that can beat them?  Are there any AA kids that should be playing 1st line AAA?  You can see by numbers you better be 1st line if you have any chance of moving on, and even most of the 1st line kids don't move on.  I don't think any kids skilled enough to move on are being passed over.
Your comment here and others suggest that development is over by age 13 or so.   If that is true, why do many D1 coaches prefer older players.  Harvard, for example, has players who are 24-25 years old.   The logic, presumably, is not body development since most D1 football and basketball players to directly from high school.    Many D1 elite football players who are drafted by the NFL need a year or two to fully development.   But if the argument is that it is not about physical development or athleticism but the complexity of the game and the diverse skills that it requires, then development is on-going for those who reach D1 and it is not all over at age 13 or 15.   

Even if you can argue that it is all over at age 13, you implicitly assume that the process of selecting AAA kids if perfectly rational and is absent any factors such as politics, distance from the arena, or parental financial status.   

JackBender

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Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #82 on: February 19, 2019, 12:48:28 PM »
The guy has an agenda... likely a CAHA shill, like Gas, sent here to help deflect/distract the CAHA flogging taking place.
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Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #83 on: February 19, 2019, 01:38:15 PM »
 Can we please stop with the numbers, for most us it’s about options (clubs and especially coaching staffs) and not just promoting the 3 NHL affiliated clubs. We as the cunsumer should have more options.  My kid is not going to a D1 school nor to the NHL but I would still like him to be given the opportunity to play at the highest level and compete. Even if this means his team would have a low national ranking.

Pop

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Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #84 on: February 19, 2019, 02:03:47 PM »
I’m saying talent is the most important.  The USHL is the top jr league in US that develope talented kids and only 13 kids from CA play in that league and none come from east coast prep.  People on this site talk as if going east is a good option for CA kids to go D1 and that you can just create a great player. More CA kids playing in the USHL come from CA AAA and none from the Sharks.  The reason CA kids don’t move on is they don’t have the talent to move on.  YHow come the only CA kid from US prep came from SSM? And none from prep out east?  Of the 40 D1 players from CA you’d be surprised by the lack of prep school representation.  How come 4 kids can go from the Ducks to the USHL and not the rest? Did the 4 get better coaching?  More Exposure?  Work harder? Or have more talent?  If a top line AAA kid gets passed over because of politics or whatever.  He would dominate AA.  You have to be a top player at one level before you move up to the next.  If your not a top 14 year old player in CA, where do you think they will rank in Mass?  I’m for as many AAA teams as the market allows, but to think that’s the reason kids don’t move on is not true. 

JackBender

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Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #85 on: February 19, 2019, 02:39:22 PM »
  I’m for as many AAA teams as the market allows, but to think that’s the reason kids don’t move on is not true.


No one thinks or believes that. 


People leave the state because there is limited competition at AAA, travel costs are too high, and the opportunity to play AAA is miniscule. This is because of CAHA's political games. Everyone wants to be seen, everyone wants an opportunity... and as Hamacher (a player, coach, father) pointed out, scouts/recruiters place bias on kids not playing AAA. Fair or not, parents believe this... so they ship their kids East.


Is this right or wrong? That's not the discussion. The discussion is about the limits CAHA is unnecessarily implementing on clubs desiring to offer AAA hockey. CAHA has suppressed or destroyed every AAA program not affiliated with an NHL club. That's called "market manipulation" and it's not good for anyone... especially their constituency, the consumer.       
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Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #86 on: February 19, 2019, 03:34:13 PM »
Pop, you still assume that it a player's fate is fixed by age 13 if not a lot sooner.   Why doesn't the NHL just have a draft of 10 year olds and be done with it. 

Let the rest of us move on and spend more time at the beach.   Maybe we should just have local teams, forget private stick-times and travel to lovely Vacaville for CAHA Weekends?  Or better yet, we could just serve up beer for in-house youth leagues; it is never too soon for kids to accept their fate and learn their place in life. 

To take you seriously, maybe youth hockey in California is like selling high priced real estate on the Moon.  The sad thing is that this may be true.

Racetonowhere

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Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #87 on: February 19, 2019, 04:30:37 PM »
Although I generally agree that more options is usually better, I don't think CAHA is wrong in limiting the number of AAA teams. You have to have certain standards. Sorry Defenders, but just because I would like my kid  to play at Wimbledon or the Masters doesn't mean that they should let him in. By the way, how many programs have applied to CAHA for AAA status and been denied?
If your kid is good enough and wants it badly enough, he will be noticed whether he's playing at AAA or B. Maybe not this year, but next year, or the year after.
I keep hearing about Cali kids leaving in "droves." Who are they? It's easy to say that, but what's the evidence for it? And, if they're leaving it's not because of CAHA, but to go to prep school.   

Hamacher Checking Camp

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Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #88 on: February 19, 2019, 05:22:41 PM »

If your kid is good enough and wants it badly enough, he will be noticed whether he's playing at AAA or B. Maybe not this year, but next year, or the year after.



If your player is in the top 5% or 75-100 players in their age group or if they are in MN, MI, IL, or MA, this is 100% true.


For everyone else, including the 300+ more D1 Commits from your age group, this is the biggest lie in hockey.  But it does make people feel good about their path decisions......

Racetonowhere

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Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #89 on: February 19, 2019, 05:41:34 PM »
If you're not in top 5% of your age group you're not going to D1.
I repeat, if you're good enough and work hard enough you will be noticed and climb the ladder.
Stop making excuses.  CAHA is not holding anybody back.