This Community is For Sale - For more information contact: admin@calhockey.com

Author Topic: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)  (Read 101693 times)

Landshark

  • Peewee
  • ***
  • Posts: 238
  • LR Justice +77/-47
Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #105 on: February 19, 2019, 08:25:51 PM »
Or maybe we should just restrict MLB to three teams?  That sounds like a recipe for the best possible outcome. All three teams will be back east because only they are really good enough to play baseball.

Racetonowhere

  • Squirt
  • **
  • Posts: 50
  • LR Justice +11/-14
Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #106 on: February 19, 2019, 08:51:05 PM »

I like all of Landshark's ideas-very creative. Landshark should run for CAHA Board. It's easy to bitch and moan, but more difficult to come up with specific ideas as LS has.
We can't ignore that the Big Three are the prime supporters and sources of money for amateur hockey in California.  Of course, they're going to have outsize influence on CAHA. The rink owners also have their own agendas and CAHA has to be attuned to them as well.


BTW, I also like Landshark's idea of limiting MLB to three teams-although I might limit it to about 12. The baseball would be much better. Half the teams tank anyway every year. I would also go back to original six in NHL. Does anybody really want to watch the Kings play the Coyotes?


JackB-I have no idea what's going on with Jr Sharks or anything else in NorCal hockey.
I'm guessing though that if they had a bigger pool of talent to draw from as in SoCal, their management would be less incompetent.
And since you don't like my NHL or MLB analogy, how about HS football-why don't we let every school, no matter how small or bad they are at football, play in the same division as Rancho Santa Margarita or St. John's Bosco as long as the parents at the small crappy schools want that?

Strawman

  • Peewee
  • ***
  • Posts: 163
  • LR Justice +49/-47
Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #107 on: February 19, 2019, 08:59:31 PM »
If the Sharks had competition in NoCal... they wouldn't be so bad. They'd be forced to do better.  Develop better.  Recruit better.  Retain better.  Like I said, competition weeds out incompetence.  It's Business 101.  But CAHA manipulates the system by granting the Sharks AAA at every level regardless of their past record.



Remove the limits.  Allow nature to take its course.  If that bankrupts the Sharks and puts them out of business, then they should be ran a better business.  That should not be CAHA's concern. They should be unbiased.  Expanding the game.  Helping everyone.


Oh, and how MLB and the NHL run their leagues has NOTHING to do with youth hockey in California, so don't conflate the two.   


You clearly do not follow NorCal hockey closely. We’ve also already covered this topic but once again, look at the AA teams up north. They are all pretty bad save for the GSE 14AA team. What club can magically start fielding solid AAA teams besides SJ? GSE is probably the best candidate but they fell flat on their face the last few times they tried. We all agree that the Sharks are not as advanced as the Kings or Ducks but they have pretty solid 13AAA, 14AAA, 15AAA and 16AAA teams. In fact, just this past weekend, their 14AAA, 15AAA and 16AAA teams all beat their Kings counterparts in MN. Their 14AAA and 16AAA teams were the only CA teams to make it to the semis of the Tier 1 playoffs. This gap between the California clubs is not as wide as everyone is making it out to be except at the PeeWee level and quite frankly......who cares, those kids are still wearing Superman pajamas.


Actually Ducks made it to semis too but details.

JackBender

  • Peewee
  • ***
  • Posts: 188
  • LR Justice +49/-20
    • Tom's Chuckle Barn
Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #108 on: February 19, 2019, 09:00:19 PM »
Gas... CAHA doesn't need to manipulate the system. It's not their job. If the Sharks fail, so what? If GSE fails, so what? If Santa Clara fails, so what? Every March the season ends, and every September the season begins again. But it is not CAHA's job to say who is good and who is bad and who should play where. That is overreaching and manipulative and a dangerous conflict of interest.

But this isn’t an opinion… it is the cornerstone of the CAHA guidebook:

28.0 PURPOSE
The purpose of CAHA, in addition to any purposes set forth in the Articles of Incorporation of the organization, is as follows:

--To encourage, foster and promote the development and growth of the sport of amateur ice hockey within the State of California.
--To conduct certain affairs of USA Hockey, to assist in the governance of the Registered Participant Members and Member Teams of USA Hockey and to regulate the sport of amateur ice hockey within the State of California.
--To encourage and develop the mental knowledge, skills, ability and sportsmanship of all participants with respect to the sport of amateur ice hockey.
--To conduct State ice hockey tournaments and to select representative Member Teams to participate in USA Hockey District, Regional and National Tournaments.
--To carry out all other responsibilities, duties and obligations imposed on CAHA pursuant to the Affiliate Agreement with USA Hockey.

Hmm.  Sure doesn’t look like the guidebook calls for CAHA to be picking where teams should be playing and which clubs should be allowed to ice AAA teams, does it? They should be, you know, encouraging, fostering and promoting… not restricting.  Oh, and it continues:

29.1  CAHA is and shall remain nonprofit, nonsectarian and nonpartisan.
 

29.2 CAHA shall not be operated in a manner which will generate pecuniary gain or profit for any Member Association or individual and is organized solely for nonprofit purposes.
 

29.3  No substantial part of the activities of CAHA shall be devoted to carrying on propaganda, attempting to influence legislation or becoming involved in any political activities.
 
 

Yikes.  Those three are a doozy.  Now we’re getting somewhere.  So, by giving the three NHL affiliate clubs automatic AAA bids regardless of their performance, yet restricting every other clubs at the same time (hello, Titans!)… is that remaining nonsectarian and nonpartisan?  Uh… I’m not so sure.  Perhaps a lawyer should look at this?  Or, you know, more appropriately, CAHA’s governing body… USA Hockey? 

To many, CAHA has been moving in the wrong direction on several issues.  They’ve been overreaching for years, and AAA hockey and the flighting system are two prime examples of this.  CAHA should not be helping some clubs and hurting others.



I'm your Huckleberry

lcadad

  • AHL
  • *****
  • Posts: 540
  • LR Justice +151/-121
Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #109 on: February 19, 2019, 09:02:21 PM »
If you're not in top 5% of your age group you're not going to D1.
I repeat, if you're good enough and work hard enough you will be noticed and climb the ladder.
Stop making excuses.  CAHA is not holding anybody back.


It literally is holding people back. 

Knuckle Puck

  • Squirt
  • **
  • Posts: 63
  • LR Justice +56/-11
Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #110 on: February 19, 2019, 09:17:02 PM »
USA Hockey Participation Statistics for California
                12U   14U    16U     
2009-10   1413   1380  1314
2017-18    2426  2021  1699
Purposefully reducing AAA and AA opportunities after participation rises around 50% in eight years is dumb, unless all those new participants an then some are benders. https://cdn2.sportngin.com/attachments/document/0043/6194/09-10_FINAL_REPORT_BOOK.pdf?_ga=2.24704570.1631449719.1550558036-480502214.1550558036
https://cdn3.sportngin.com/attachments/document/2210-1687681/2017-18_Final_Registration_Report.pdf?_ga=2.200954414.1631449719.1550558036-480502214.1550558036
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 09:18:07 PM by Knuckle Puck »

Pop

  • Mite
  • *
  • Posts: 23
  • LR Justice +8/-9
Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #111 on: February 20, 2019, 07:41:58 AM »
If only 13 CA kids are talented enough to play in USHL and that’s multiple birth years. And only 1 came from prep(SSM). Where are the kids that are leaving ending up?  The CA AAA teams again go to MN last weekend and don’t play MN teams, why?  Last weekend was the start of MN youth district tournaments and the last weekend of boys high school season. Do you think the scouts were watching the MN kids or are they going to watch some CA AAA teams play easch other?  The only scouts there were paid to be there by the tournament organizers.  USHL drafts kids at 16, but each team have tryout camps for the undrafted.  Those camps are filled with kids who were passed over for whatever reason.  Guess how many kids make the team?  CA has to get a allotted number of kids to send to National Camp, meaning better kids from MN/MI are being passed over. The allotted kids from CA and other districts are drill busters.  It doesn’t look good for the CA player.  Soucts see this so if a kid isn’t a top AAA player they’re not interested.  A 4th line grinder in the USHL was a top performer on his AAA team.  Of the 13 CA USHL players 5 are 4th line bubble players getting minimal games and minutes. But those 5 were great players on their team before. If a top 15 player from CA is a bubble player in USHL and only the top 30 move on to other legitimate jr.  Do you really think the 80th best kid in CA is all of a sudden going to jump into the top 30 because of the team he’s playing on?  Nobody answered why only 4 JD players are made USHL and the rest didn’t even though they all had same coaching, exposure, and practices.  To me it’s because only 4 had the talent. You can develop talent not create it. 

SkatingDad

  • Midget
  • ****
  • Posts: 356
  • LR Justice +60/-91
Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #112 on: February 20, 2019, 08:31:45 AM »
The biggest lie in hockey is that hamacher checking camp is worth the money.


There.


I pissed in your pool.


We are both probably right but it doesn’t feel good to crap on the dreams of others.


I think you missed my point.  The 300 other additional D1 commits I mentioned have to do extraordinary, and I do mean extraordinary, things to overcome "not being found".  I have a tremendous amount of respect and encouragement for those guys.  Had they stayed put and just quit because "they weren't good enough" and accepted "not being found", they never would have overcome massive adversity and achieved. Is that clearer?


I believe that most of the people who "make it" have to claw there way to the top. That is why they make good coaches and good people because they had to work for everything they got.  The anointed ones have nothing when they get older because they do not know how to work for anything.

lcadad

  • AHL
  • *****
  • Posts: 540
  • LR Justice +151/-121
Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #113 on: February 20, 2019, 08:56:18 AM »
If only 13 CA kids are talented enough to play in USHL and that’s multiple birth years. And only 1 came from prep(SSM). Where are the kids that are leaving ending up?  The CA AAA teams again go to MN last weekend and don’t play MN teams, why?  Last weekend was the start of MN youth district tournaments and the last weekend of boys high school season. Do you think the scouts were watching the MN kids or are they going to watch some CA AAA teams play easch other? 


The Minnesota system is entirely oriented around participation in High School.  For that reason, their age groups are set up to match the start and end of school years so that they can have kids playing together with their class at school.  It is a unique system that works for Minnesota, but isn't used anywhere else, and for that reason, rankings and head to head competition with Minnesota teams is rare.




SDHockeyDad

  • Squirt
  • **
  • Posts: 93
  • LR Justice +15/-9
Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #114 on: February 20, 2019, 09:06:09 AM »
North Dakota also follows this model.

JackBender

  • Peewee
  • ***
  • Posts: 188
  • LR Justice +49/-20
    • Tom's Chuckle Barn
Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #115 on: February 20, 2019, 09:10:24 AM »
Pop... what the hell are you rambling on about? What is your point?


Yeah, it's tough. Yeah, it's a hard road. Yeah, being in California it is hard to be seen... so of all places, California's governing body shouldn't be SUPPRESSING opportunities!


Really, CAHA should be the most progressive, most open minded, most helpful, most ambitious governing body in the country. But they're not. Not even close. They're curmudgeons like you, Pop... telling everyone they suck and that they know best and that people and clubs shouldn't even try.  Oh, correction... actively and aggressively NOT ALLOW people and clubs to even try. 
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 09:13:42 AM by JackBender »
I'm your Huckleberry

lcadad

  • AHL
  • *****
  • Posts: 540
  • LR Justice +151/-121
Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #116 on: February 20, 2019, 09:12:00 AM »
North Dakota also follows this model.


Makes sense, thanks for the update.

SkatingDad

  • Midget
  • ****
  • Posts: 356
  • LR Justice +60/-91
Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #117 on: February 20, 2019, 09:39:14 AM »
Pop... what the hell are you rambling on about? What is your point?


Yeah, it's tough. Yeah, it's a hard road. Yeah, being in California it is hard to be seen... so of all places, California's governing body shouldn't be SUPPRESSING opportunities!


Really, CAHA should be the most progressive, most open minded, most helpful, most ambitious governing body in the country. But they're not. Not even close. They're curmudgeons like you, Pop... telling everyone they suck and that they know best and that people and clubs shouldn't even try.  Oh, correction... actively and aggressively NOT ALLOW people and clubs to even try.


They are behaving like the California Government.  These are the same idiots...

Pop

  • Mite
  • *
  • Posts: 23
  • LR Justice +8/-9
Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #118 on: February 20, 2019, 09:52:39 AM »
Yes it’s based of school year, because playing with your friends trumps all there.  But it’s also not birth year, it’s combined so bantams are 8th and 9th graders.  So your saying a CA 04 AAA team can’t compete with a MN association team that might have a couple late 03s, but also has a bunch of 05s on it?  Aren’t the CA kids talented enough?  Wouldn’t that qualify as the higher competition that people are sending their kids east for?  What games do you think the scouts in MN going to watch, CA 04s playing each other or MN bantam teams with high end 05s, 04s and a couple late 03s?  What purpose does going to MN to play non MN teams serve?  SSM played more teams from MN(member of MHSEL) then they do east coast prep schools.  Why?  Because that gives them better competition and exposure then playing the east coast teams do. And costs less!  All of it is based off talent. Talented teams want to play other talented teams.  Look at the teams that Sharks play.  Look at the teams the bad east coast AAA teams play.  Those kids aren’t moving on and they play AAA. Why? They don’t have the talent to move on.  Empire played a low level MN association tournament(A-B) this winter and got smoked. 

JackBender

  • Peewee
  • ***
  • Posts: 188
  • LR Justice +49/-20
    • Tom's Chuckle Barn
Re: The CAHA AA Flight system sucks again (2019 Bantam AA Edition)
« Reply #119 on: February 20, 2019, 10:28:52 AM »
Pop... again, what is your point?


MN develops the game better than everyone.  They provide opportunities for everyone. Because so many kids play, they can district the game. But they're NOT suppressing the game.  Not at all.  California produces more ELITE ATHLETES than anyone other state.  Not all choose to play hockey, of course.  But if they did... or at least 10% more did... California would be world beaters. Elite talent comes from elite athletes... and California has elite athletes in droves.  But the governing body SUPPRESSES the game at its highest level... AAA hockey.   


CAHA shouldn't.  It's against the NHL's "expand the game" initiative.  It's cynical.  It's counterproductive.  And it only hurts the consumer.
I'm your Huckleberry