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Author Topic: CAHA's biased leadership and AAA sham PART II  (Read 65111 times)

#4BobbyOrr

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Re: CAHA's biased leadership and AAA sham PART II
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2019, 12:32:42 AM »
A lot of the good AAA kids leave at 14u or 15u to go to prep school too. No one is pushing them or anyone else out.  The biggest driver of moving kids out of state is money - A lot people actually spend less money by sending their kid to prep school if they qualify for a financial aid package.  A $50k/yr hockey and prep school education for $25k all in? Who would say no to that? Some people are spending $35k/yr on private school here and another $25k on hockey.  Even if they don't qualify for aid at a prep school they can spend less by sending their and paying full boat. 

Landshark

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Re: CAHA's biased leadership and AAA sham PART II
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2019, 12:35:49 AM »
So, you’re saying that a system that has produced no results outside of a stunning single tournament almost victory is obviously better than the previous version which produced actual national results because you can’t imagine talent superior to the kids who live near the kings and ducks facilities accumulating in another place and flourishing?  Thanks for reminding us that Caha board members aren’t the only ones lacking basic cognitive functions.

Hamacher Checking Camp

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Re: CAHA's biased leadership and AAA sham PART II
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2019, 08:54:35 AM »
Some great data here and it tells a story that maybe "consolidation is working".  If I was a casual observer, I would probably be convinced.   Here is a bit more data to try and complete the picture.  The number of Pro, NCAA Div I, and CHL players from California is decreasing and in my opinion, decreasing rapidly.  I will let you go mine your own data but some generic info to chew on.  NCAA Div I numbers are down 30%+ from a high of approximately 75 players.  The CHL numbers are more significant than that.  I am all for the team, but what are we doing for individual players?

A good series of questions in my mind are: do players dream about a state or youth national championship or playing in the NHL and scoring the game 7 winner?   Do players dream about themselves being in the NHL or about their team mate or their team being in the NHL?  And the question I ask myself every day is my team winning more or less important than developing all of my players and moving them onward and upward in pursuit of their dreams?  The last question has become easy for me as my players have all shared their dreams with me so the responsibility and priority is really clear.

Here are some additional thoughts on the data.





https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2093492214014514&id=1162141630482915
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 09:21:35 AM by Hamacher Checking Camp »

Pop

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Re: CAHA's biased leadership and AAA sham PART II
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2019, 11:55:40 AM »
CA has 13 kids in the USHL and 40 in D1.  Only 2 in the USHL came from prep, SSM and CIH.  Where are all the kids heading to prep school ending up?  Being good in USHL and D1 coaches eyes are completely different then being good in parents eyes.

CahaMama

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Re: CAHA's biased leadership and AAA sham PART II
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2019, 12:04:50 PM »
So, lots of problem identification going on, but what is the solution? Bantam and midget aged kids are leaving the state in droves in search of a better alternative than what we have to offer here in California. How do we fix this? Or maybe it's ok to have "fun" and "development" through Peewee and then send 'em off somewhere else if they want to really develop. Or stay and continue with the "fun" in the various high school leagues. If you stay past Peewee, you have accepted your fate. After all, all roads lead to men's league.

Seriously, it's a train wreck in the making IMHO.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 12:05:57 PM by CahaMama »

JackBender

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Re: CAHA's biased leadership and AAA sham PART II
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2019, 12:21:27 PM »
CAHA, the governing body, should NOT be manipulating the system. There is no reason to try to consolidate talent. That is not their role. If the clubs want to try to do that, they can recruit all they want, but the independent governing body shouldn't be manipulating the system in the favor of particular clubs... but they are.     


The nonsense reason of "competing at a national level" has been debunked.  Kings/Ducks were competitive pre-limits, and they've been just as competitive post-limits.  It has made ZERO difference, as proved with the numbers. 


CAHA should allow teams to place teams as they please. Why is that so scary?  What is the worst that will happen?


The governing body should be supporting competitiveness between the clubs... because competitiveness is what weeds out incompetence (like the Sharks).
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 12:41:40 PM by JackBender »
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DEFENDERS

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Re: CAHA's biased leadership and AAA sham PART II
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2019, 01:40:20 PM »
 Can we please stop with the numbers, for most us it’s about options (clubs and especially coaching staffs) and not just promoting the 3 NHL affiliated clubs. We as the cunsumer should have more options.  My kid is not going to a D1 school nor to the NHL but I would still like him to be given the opportunity to play at the highest level and compete. Even if this means his team would have a low national ranking.

NotfromSoCal

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Re: CAHA's biased leadership and AAA sham PART II
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2019, 04:07:08 PM »
Defenders, stop trying to be reasonable with Kings and Ducks dads.  It will never work.  Of course if you consolidate teams, the last ones standing stand a higher probability of being better than they were before.  A sirloin steak tastes pretty good too when there aren't any ribeye's on the BBQ.  It also makes the decision very easy for many of the most talented kids to NOT want to play on some of those teams and to play in AA.  Why won't the AAA Sharks scrimmage against any NorCal AA or even A teams?  I think you all know the answer but if you can't figure it out, let me know.  There is no arguing that the Kings AAA and Ducks AAA teams are good.  That's not the point.

#4BobbyOrr

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Re: CAHA's biased leadership and AAA sham PART II
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2019, 10:41:50 PM »
So, lots of problem identification going on, but what is the solution? Bantam and midget aged kids are leaving the state in droves in search of a better alternative than what we have to offer here in California. How do we fix this? Or maybe it's ok to have "fun" and "development" through Peewee and then send 'em off somewhere else if they want to really develop. Or stay and continue with the "fun" in the various high school leagues. If you stay past Peewee, you have accepted your fate. After all, all roads lead to men's league.

Seriously, it's a train wreck in the making IMHO.


The number one rated 03 in the US played u16 for the jr kings this year and has been there his whole youth "career". Already committed to high end D1 school and will most likely be on the USNTDP 16 team next year. Another teammate who also stayed may join him there. If yournkid is good he doesn't have to go anywhere.

#4BobbyOrr

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Re: CAHA's biased leadership and AAA sham PART II
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2019, 10:51:44 PM »
So, you’re saying that a system that has produced no results outside of a stunning single tournament almost victory is obviously better than the previous version which produced actual national results because you can’t imagine talent superior to the kids who live near the kings and ducks facilities accumulating in another place and flourishing?  Thanks for reminding us that Caha board members aren’t the only ones lacking basic cognitive functions.


The way they did it before any club or startup team even could announce they were going AAA at a level and poach all the best players from other clubs.  It's no different than the consolidation going on now except it was probably worse then.  Now instead of 1 really good team that could compete nationally and be in the top 10 you are seeing multiple teams in the top 20 from socal.  05 and 07 have 2 in the top 15 and 06 has 2 in the top 5. You wouldn't have had that under the old system. Under the old system at the 06 level you would probably have an Ice Dogs team at number 1, a ducks team at number 30, and a kings team at 60. Yeah they may win nationals (if they s had it at peewee) but it wouldn't do much for California hockey if there was no other team here that could compete with them.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 04:34:41 AM by #4BobbyOrr »

JackBender

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Re: CAHA's biased leadership and AAA sham PART II
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2019, 11:07:06 PM »
Bobby... we already debunked this myth over and over. Kings/Ducks always competitive nationally. Nothing has changed post-limits. Not sure why you’d be scared of more competition, more opportunities.... and LESS bureaucratic restrictions, but here we are.

And the 03 player you highlight would have been gone before but his entire team played up his Bantam Minor year... he’s playing up this year to 16U... and he will be gone next year. Just about every recognizable name from that 03 group will be gone. And I’d bet you that if there were still 10 16U AAA teams in California, a few would be staying. But there won’t be 10 teams. Or 8. Or 6.  There will be 3 teams. The same 3 teams the 03s have been amongst for the past 6 years... so the kids will all be gone.


Nice job, CAHA.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 11:25:28 PM by JackBender »
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lcadad

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Re: CAHA's biased leadership and AAA sham PART II
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2019, 09:04:42 AM »
Another Myth that can easily be debunked through the application of simple logic:

"The kids with AAA talent are already playing AAA.  There aren't other kids who can play at the AAA level."

And yet, year after year, kids leave these AAA teams for various reasons, and are replaced by other kids. 

Where did these other kids come from?  That's right they came from either non AAA teams in the organization OR no AAA clubs where they were playing previously.

As already established, the Kings & Ducks have managed to maintain a consistent level of relative national AAA competitiveness, while losing players, and not only players but at times top performers, and yet the teams do not fold or suffer precipitous drop offs.

HOW CAN THIS BE?????


Pop

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Re: CAHA's biased leadership and AAA sham PART II
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2019, 10:34:31 AM »
Most kids nationally(except in MN) with talent will move on to USHL, NAHL, and BCHL after 16u.  There are replaced by the 16u bubble kids at 18u.  Check out how the JD and JK do at 18u against other 18u teams that also lost their top talent after 16u. Look and see how many kids move on from 18u compared to 16u.  You can’t say the high end kids leaving after 16u are being replaced with kids of equal talent. 

JackBender

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Re: CAHA's biased leadership and AAA sham PART II
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2019, 10:43:24 AM »
Pop... so what does this have to do with CAHA suppressing and rigging AAA hockey starting at 11U?


You're starting to make me think you belong on CAHA's "Distract & Deflect" Shill List... along with Gas and Race.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 10:47:31 AM by JackBender »
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lcadad

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Re: CAHA's biased leadership and AAA sham PART II
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2019, 10:43:34 AM »
The way they did it before any club or startup team even could announce they were going AAA at a level and poach all the best players from other clubs.  It's no different than the consolidation going on now except it was probably worse then.  Now instead of 1 really good team that could compete nationally and be in the top 10 you are seeing multiple teams in the top 20 from socal.  05 and 07 have 2 in the top 15 and 06 has 2 in the top 5. You wouldn't have had that under the old system.


There is a PDR rule that specifically exists to address poaching and movement of entire teams.  Whether or not those rules work, or should exist is another question entirely, but I understand the concern.   


The rest of your argument has already been debunked multiple times.  You keep stating it like it's fact when there was both historic results prior to the rule changes AND examples from other markets with similar geographic and population constraints that have 8+ AAA teams at an age group and still have ample representation in the top 20 rankings.