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Author Topic: What Bantam AA Teams for 2019-2020?  (Read 167636 times)

JackBender

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Re: What Bantam AA Teams for 2019-2020?
« Reply #135 on: September 18, 2019, 10:50:00 PM »
Geez.  Strawman aka Mr. Sunshine, thanks for projecting, but no one said AA was better than AAA or anything about the NHL... I simply replied to your sarcastic, dismissive attitude toward two AA teams with actual facts, which you continue to ignore per your hypothesis.


But no dog. No fight. I just think Bears(1) and Saints are without a doubt AAA caliber, and I base that on perspective and insight.
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TheFourthA

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Re: What Bantam AA Teams for 2019-2020?
« Reply #136 on: September 19, 2019, 09:54:06 AM »
IcaDad, a few of questions.  First, exactly how deep do you think AA is in AAA quality players and AAA quality teams? Second, what in your view is an AAA quality player and team? Third, what is the harm and who is being harmed by what you see as the artificially imposed scarcity of AAA


For all of the animus towards CAHA and frustrations with flighting, the system seems to be producing teams capable of producing teams capable of competing as elite teams on the national level, producing players capable of and making nationally recognized teams, and shown some willingness to expand AAA past the Big 3.



















Oilers1966

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Re: What Bantam AA Teams for 2019-2020?
« Reply #137 on: September 19, 2019, 10:34:45 AM »
The difference is depth in the team for AA vs AAA. ( and this is huge)


AAA has 3 or 4 good lines and 2 good goalies.


AA maybe 1 good line and 1 good goalie ( you get the idea)


AA could not play in the AAA Tier 1 league, You are playing 4 games in two days, travel, not sleep at home,  which is hard enough.
 Your strong players will have to play more and will be identified and get hurt.


Yes AA teams have a few that could play AAA on the ice, But are they ready to travel without parents and focused enough to do homework and not screw around and get into trouble. Keep the dress shoes and socks together.


If your son wants to continue to play in college and maybe Europe,Asia, etc Then AAA is helpful. Your sone needs to get seen and play with more developed players. If its for fun with friends then stay and they still can play in the ACHA Colleges ( no grants, no scholarships)


If they want to keep moving on , this is the age where they need to go camps. ( not all of them)
Most people on this feed will not do WHL. They do have camps in the spring , which are good to go to, just to get a feeling of whats expected.  There are a few camps in Vegas, ( Not $$$)


If you are playing in AA and want to keep going you will need to make the jump to AAA. U15 is where they get drafted and invites to camps. U-16 is also important, By U18 its too late.




Start looking now, talk to parents who did it last year. They know the cost and if it was worth it.  USHL has a camp in Chicago ( if you get invited - GO )
NAHL has 1 in Anaheim ( Go)






Hockey sophist

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Re: What Bantam AA Teams for 2019-2020?
« Reply #138 on: September 19, 2019, 11:17:23 AM »
Good post Icadad:

"In my opinion, the CAHA system has artificially limited AAA opportunity, so there are likely more players who would be playing AAA in other markets, that are playing AA in California.  One of the reasons I've been hearing recently for the level of churn in the Ducks is the move to Irvine that has made it untenable for some families who can't justify the commute.  This reinforces the simple fact that in a state as large as California, with only 3 teams, there are going to be many families who just can't get to one of the 3 AAA rinks."   

This is a sound point.  My guess is that So. California could handle two to three extra AAA teams at least through Bantam.  Moreover, both the Kings and Ducks '05 AAA teams have taken in good AA players to fill out rosters after losing players to prep schools. 

Your point about the size of California and the number of AAA teams is well taken.  We know two families from S. OC who have commuted to Kings AAA for some years now.   Don't know how they can endure it but in both cases, it has paid off in the development of two excellent young players.   Got to believe that the cost to academics in high school will be significant although California Connections Academy offers a decent online academic alternative.

 
"As for Bantam AA this year, the writing was on the wall in the spring when the Saints got to the finals of the AAA division and as I recall were beaten by a Patriots team comprised of AAA Ducks and Kings only after a coming behind late in the 3rd.   The Bears is pretty much a new team this season, but the Saints played AAA tournaments last year after CAHA ended and beat a number of mid level AAA teams in the process.   It also says something about the level of AA, that this same Saints team, was put in Flight2 last year, and were tied or beaten by other Flight2 teams, which says a lot about the Flighting process in terms of teams that have been denied a chance to play in Flight1 in the 2 years of flighting."
The Saints problem this spring was a combination of arrogance and not taking the Patriots (or the team from Vancouver Island) seriously.   This happens with professional teams so not surprising it happens with less mature 13-14 year olds.  Their substitution patterns suggested that the coach wanted to win but if the players didn't care so much, any team is vulnerable.   The one thing that has distinguished the Kings AA1 (Patriots) coach over several years is that his teams played with great intensity when it mattered.   Happened to be outside his locker room after the Patriots lost to the Saints in the prelims this spring and there is no doubt about his intensity.   I don't believe that a coach can will be team to "losing is not an option" but Maik might be one of the hockey coaches who could.  I write that with a certain degree of admiration.   

Not sure why the Saints '05 was dropped to Flight 2 last year.   I saw some of their games and the games of all Flight 1 teams and would argue the Saints were better than at least 4 to 6 teams.   Maybe they sandbagged the evaluation period or just showed some of the same uneven competitive commitment of this last spring.
The Bears are a new team but as one of their parents told me, Peter recruits kids who are hockey smart and able to pick up his system or style of play quickly.  The kids on the team that I know are, indeed, hockey smart.   


PutYourFootOnTheGas

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Re: What Bantam AA Teams for 2019-2020?
« Reply #139 on: September 19, 2019, 12:09:06 PM »
"My guess is that So. California could handle two to three extra AAA teams at least through Bantam."

I completely disagree. I thought we had also covered this when you provided the USA Hockey registration #s. California simply does not have enough kids playing to justify what you stated above. We are in fact right inline with the rest of the country.

Clue12345

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Re: What Bantam AA Teams for 2019-2020?
« Reply #140 on: September 19, 2019, 12:32:25 PM »
Note: AAA is not always better than AA. Watch a AAA game. And then watch AA right afterwards. AAA is sometimes slower paced than a AA game. AAA doesn’t necessarily have the best talent in so cal on it. It just has kids that can put in the time and want to put in the time. And most importantly their parents can afford it. Money doesn’t mean skills come with that always.

SkatingDad

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Re: What Bantam AA Teams for 2019-2020?
« Reply #141 on: September 19, 2019, 12:37:21 PM »
"My guess is that So. California could handle two to three extra AAA teams at least through Bantam."

I completely disagree. I thought we had also covered this when you provided the USA Hockey registration #s. California simply does not have enough kids playing to justify what you stated above. We are in fact right inline with the rest of the country.


Problem is the number do justify having more AAA teams in California


https://cdn1.sportngin.com/attachments/document/2210-1687681/2018-19_Final_Registration_Report.pdf

USA Hockey Registrations 2018-2019 Season
Michigan  25,448 players under 19
California 15,468 players under 19
Colorado  10,248 players under 19


USA Hockey Registrations 2018-2019 Season 15-16
Michigan  3,048 players 10 16U AAA Teams and 9 15U AAA teams
California 1,765 players   3 16U AAA Teams and 3 15U AAA teams
Colorado  1,374 players   4 16U AAA Teams and 4 15U AAA teams


USA Hockey Registrations 2018-2019 Season 13-14
Michigan  3,880 players 8 14U AAA Teams and 8 13U AAA teams
California 2,144 players 3 14U AAA Teams and 3 13U AAA teams
Colorado  1,505 players 4 14U AAA Teams and 3 13U AAA Teams


There should be at least 2 more AAA teams at each level.

PutYourFootOnTheGas

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Re: What Bantam AA Teams for 2019-2020?
« Reply #142 on: September 19, 2019, 01:38:53 PM »
I guess we will just disagree then. I did the same thing you did but included more "hockey" states like Illinois, Massachusetts, and New York. California is in line with the number of AAA teams they field as a % of the total registered number of players. For states that had more AAA team like the ones you showed in Colorado and Michigan, I looked at how their bottom AAA teams performed via MyHockey Rankings. Not surprisingly the bottom AAA teams would be mid pack at the AA level in their state. I'm not sure what good that does.   

socalhockeydad

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Re: What Bantam AA Teams for 2019-2020?
« Reply #143 on: September 19, 2019, 01:41:59 PM »
More is NOT always better. Look at 06 AAA Ice Dogs - they will be fighting not to be last. They lost to the 06 AAA ducks and Kings by a combined score of 20-1...adding a Sharks south team is not what people wanted im sure. Now, that team is a bit different as they lost their best players to the Ducks 06 + some of the best 06 ID decided to stick with the IDAA team...I am more interested in what SSM-LA is going to bring. They promise AAA teams with the Mariners as a feeder club (on paper only)..they will be drawing some good kids not only from Cali but also out of state.

SkatingDad

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Re: What Bantam AA Teams for 2019-2020?
« Reply #144 on: September 19, 2019, 01:42:17 PM »
I guess we will just disagree then. I did the same thing you did but included more "hockey" states like Illinois, Massachusetts, and New York. California is in line with the number of AAA teams they field as a % of the total registered number of players. For states that had more AAA team like the ones you showed in Colorado and Michigan, I looked at how their bottom AAA teams performed via MyHockey Rankings. Not surprisingly the bottom AAA teams would be mid pack at the AA level in their state. I'm not sure what good that does.   

Michigan home state of an original 6 and Colorado home of USA Hockey.  I am not sure how they could be any more of a hockey state. I also picked those states because the number of registrations are similar.  BTW, 6 of those Michigan teams are in the top 20 at 16U last year which is the only division that matters. Not sure what you are looking at...
« Last Edit: September 19, 2019, 02:10:31 PM by SkatingDad »

Clue12345

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Re: What Bantam AA Teams for 2019-2020?
« Reply #145 on: September 19, 2019, 03:57:49 PM »
So in life there is always a winner and a loser. Why are we letting a governing body choose whether or not our kids even have a chance to be a winner? Shouldn’t that be the customers choice? Each club should be able to register a AAA team. More kids would get the opportunity. If the team is great good for them, they are the winners. If they lose well that’s on the club too. Their reputation will go down. So in myhockeyrankings there will  always will be teams in the losers brackets, that’s life! Stop letting a governing body tell you what’s best for your child. All they care about is your money. As the customer we should have options. 

justanotherhockeydad

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Re: What Bantam AA Teams for 2019-2020?
« Reply #146 on: September 19, 2019, 04:09:55 PM »

Bear71

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Re: What Bantam AA Teams for 2019-2020?
« Reply #147 on: September 19, 2019, 05:04:05 PM »
Looks like JackBender and the Flighting Evaluation Committee.

Rats13

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Re: What Bantam AA Teams for 2019-2020?
« Reply #148 on: September 19, 2019, 05:23:48 PM »
If I am not mistaken, the Gulls and GSE were both approved to have AAA 05 over the past few years.  Neither felt they ended up with enough talent to field a team.

Hockey sophist

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Re: What Bantam AA Teams for 2019-2020?
« Reply #149 on: September 19, 2019, 07:52:53 PM »
If I am not mistaken, the Gulls and GSE were both approved to have AAA 05 over the past few years.  Neither felt they ended up with enough talent to field a team.
I cannot speak to the GSE decision but my son participated in the Gulls '05 AAA clinics.   The first few were by invitation only and had about 10-11 skaters.  At the first open clinic, a club official was there and speaking loudly proclaimed, in essence, that this was not AAA level team.   The additional skaters clearly diluted the level of play.   The decision was made then and there to cancel the AAA team without even getting to formal tryouts or letting the new players and others who might be recruited adjust to a grueling workout by a former Red Army player.   It was at least a month before the official tryouts.   I was later told that the club official was also the '05 AA coach and wanted those players for his team.  Have no idea if this is accurate.  However, the best '05 Gulls moved to the Saints so the organizational power play rightly failed.

As a somewhat important side note, my son absolutely loved the would-be Gulls '05 AAA coach.   For him it was a lost opportunity that he periodically still talks about four years later.  Maybe in 20 years that will be what he remembers most about California ice hockey.     

Thank for reminding me that there are multiple reasons for the dysfunctions in California hockey; CAHA is just one of the problems.   If feasible, we should have returned to Minnesota where he was born once he fell in love with the game and showed a little promise.   The process of being a promising ice hockey player in California is convoluted and so money driven that his affection for the game is now tempered, which may be a good thing.  After all, it is just about pushing a little saucer around on the ice with a stick.