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Author Topic: PW AA 2019-2020  (Read 242800 times)

lcadad

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Re: PW AA 2019-2020
« Reply #240 on: October 30, 2019, 10:27:43 PM »
It seems to me that the wheels have really come off the CAHA bus this year.   There seems to be an unusual number of kids leaving rosters for greener pastures both at PW and Bantam.  There are some legitimate reasons for wanting to leave a team, but many of the reasons have boiled down to "we want our kid to be on a better team."  It's kind of sad to hear that it's happening at 12U though.

BladesofSteel66

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Re: PW AA 2019-2020
« Reply #241 on: October 31, 2019, 12:51:50 PM »
These posts about buyers and sellers and parents pompously jumping ship from team to team every year is everything that is wrong with CAHA and hockey in California.  Shame on those clubs and people.  Funniest part is simple: not all of the best players in CA play AAA or AA because they are happy playing hockey where they are.  Don't kid yourselves, "the best players in CA" don't all play Tier 1 hockey.
How do you know this Blades?  Does your son or daughter go to AAA spring clinics and then tryouts?   Does he go the Select tryouts?    It takes a really good eye to compare players across A, AA, and AAA when the overall speed of play is different at each level.  That is why Selects put all the kids on the ice at the same time. My guess is that it is impossible without having direct competition across levels.   A forward might have dazzling moves playing A but lose the puck easily to a AAA defender who is just quicker and faster.   A defender may be big and strong playing A and overwhelm smaller and slow forwards but be made to look silly against a AAA forward with quickness.   

It might happen with a kid who is a first or second year A player because their game may evolve super fast.
My observation has been that most AAA players started out ahead of their peers and stay ahead because better coaching, better practices, more private stick times, and better competition.   The same is true of AA players with more variation because financial costs and willingness to travel sometimes separate AA from AAA.   


I appreciate your faith in the coaching and reputation of selects and clinics at the highest levels, but I am of the ilk that believes most of it to be a money maker where the coaches already have their rosters and favorites. 


As for the speed of the game, I see it all the time - the super goal scorer who gets 10 breakaways a game at lower levels and his parents immediately think he should be playing AAA.  That same player would never make "my roster" because most of the time they are not a complete player.  The speed you speak of is a new trendy shift in the desire and design of today's hockey game.  In reality, the puck will always move faster than the fastest skaters in the world.  Start looking at players for hockey sense and their ability to move the puck because they have hockey sense, awareness, and vision.  I am finding more and more that the players that do not belong on the ice at higher levels have good edges, speed, but a complete lack of understanding hockey situations on the ice. 


I often wonder how much is hockey and hockey culture a part of these players lives.  Do they watch hockey every day?  Do they play hockey on video games?  Do they watch highlights every morning before going to school?  Are they participating in a fantasy hockey league (thereby giving them a deeper knowledge by studying the game)?  Are they out back, in the driveway, or in the garage working on their craft on their own on a daily basis?  Answering 'YES' to all of these questions will provide your hockey player (even at age 10-12) with true "hockey sense" and at a higher success rate when compared to clinics and "better coaching."  I am of the opinion that most of the youth hockey players in CA answer 'NO' to most of those questions even at the highest levels.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2019, 12:54:59 PM by BladesofSteel66 »

Hockey sophist

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Re: PW AA 2019-2020
« Reply #242 on: October 31, 2019, 01:24:15 PM »
These posts about buyers and sellers and parents pompously jumping ship from team to team every year is everything that is wrong with CAHA and hockey in California.  Shame on those clubs and people.  Funniest part is simple: not all of the best players in CA play AAA or AA because they are happy playing hockey where they are.  Don't kid yourselves, "the best players in CA" don't all play Tier 1 hockey.
How do you know this Blades?  Does your son or daughter go to AAA spring clinics and then tryouts?   Does he go the Select tryouts?    It takes a really good eye to compare players across A, AA, and AAA when the overall speed of play is different at each level.  That is why Selects put all the kids on the ice at the same time. My guess is that it is impossible without having direct competition across levels.   A forward might have dazzling moves playing A but lose the puck easily to a AAA defender who is just quicker and faster.   A defender may be big and strong playing A and overwhelm smaller and slow forwards but be made to look silly against a AAA forward with quickness.   

It might happen with a kid who is a first or second year A player because their game may evolve super fast.
My observation has been that most AAA players started out ahead of their peers and stay ahead because better coaching, better practices, more private stick times, and better competition.   The same is true of AA players with more variation because financial costs and willingness to travel sometimes separate AA from AAA.   


I appreciate your faith in the coaching and reputation of selects and clinics at the highest levels, but I am of the ilk that believes most of it to be a money maker where the coaches already have their rosters and favorites. 


As for the speed of the game, I see it all the time - the super goal scorer who gets 10 breakaways a game at lower levels and his parents immediately think he should be playing AAA.  That same player would never make "my roster" because most of the time they are not a complete player.  The speed you speak of is a new trendy shift in the desire and design of today's hockey game.  In reality, the puck will always move faster than the fastest skaters in the world.  Start looking at players for hockey sense and their ability to move the puck because they have hockey sense, awareness, and vision.  I am finding more and more that the players that do not belong on the ice at higher levels have good edges, speed, but a complete lack of understanding hockey situations on the ice. 


I often wonder how much is hockey and hockey culture a part of these players lives.  Do they watch hockey every day?  Do they play hockey on video games?  Do they watch highlights every morning before going to school?  Are they participating in a fantasy hockey league (thereby giving them a deeper knowledge by studying the game)?  Are they out back, in the driveway, or in the garage working on their craft on their own on a daily basis?  Answering 'YES' to all of these questions will provide your hockey player (even at age 10-12) with true "hockey sense" and at a higher success rate when compared to clinics and "better coaching."  I am of the opinion that most of the youth hockey players in CA answer 'NO' to most of those questions even at the highest levels.
Good and insightful response Blades.   Some points for exploration.   1. The fact that hockey especially in CA is about money is a separate and distinct argument from the quality of AAA or AA players.   

2.  The kind of personal commitment you describe in terms of being obsessed by hockey may or may not be related to success.  It may relate to making it to the NHL or Div 1 but some data would be interesting.   But what about a commitment to education just in case that dream doesn't work out?    One of the things I admire about Coach Torsson of the CA Bears is that he promotes quality prep schools so that players have more life options.   Someone on these pages a few months ago described a AAA/juniors player who could not qualify for a good university although he did all the "right" things in terms of hockey preparation.   Furthermore, if a kid of obsessed by hockey, when will they play another sport and get that cross-training muscle development?   

3.  I am not sure that playing hockey video games (my son did that for several years) makes for a better player.   Maybe/maybe not.   

Agree, that hockey sense is as important as speed, edges, etc.   There is probably a better chance to develop hockey sense at a higher level of play and coaching.    I get your point.   Coaching 12 and Under soccer, I would ask on the first day of practice, who was the fastest player?   Someone would always speak up and then I would challenge him to a race.   Except he ran against a ball that I kicked.  A puck moves a lot faster.   I do wonder how much good passing is valued at youth hockey.  Can't remember a coach complimenting a player for their passing but maybe dome coach or parents can respond on this.     

My general point is that it is dubious an A player, especially if as obsessed with developing his or her game as you describe, is a hidden gem better than AAA or AA player.   Let me take it a step further, if that A player is not practicing with and playing against the best possible competition, they will NOT develop at an optimal pace.  Where parents may differ is how much they are willing to pay for that development and what other life values (education, other sports) they are willing to give up to get there.


5lap5hot

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Re: PW AA 2019-2020
« Reply #243 on: November 01, 2019, 08:13:27 AM »
I don't know what games you guys have been watching but I think 90% of the passes my grandmother in a walker could move faster than the puck.  I've yet to see at team that could really pass a puck in the AA league.  Sure one two passes, but beyond that its softball pitches that wouldn't knock the petals off a flower.  Unless these kids get some fundamental skills and work as a team none will make it beyond bench warmer on a AAA team.

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Re: PW AA 2019-2020
« Reply #244 on: November 01, 2019, 02:29:42 PM »
Slap Shot you nailed it!   PWAA is so overrated.  "The new PWA"   Very few coaches play a system to develop the team concept of passing, staying in position, back checking and not spelling team with an "I".   Its time for 11 & 12 yr old's to play as team and its NOT all about themselves anymore.

Golden Knight

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Re: PW AA 2019-2020
« Reply #245 on: November 01, 2019, 08:54:07 PM »
ID1 and Jr. Ducks are currently playing in the Chicago AAA World Invite.  So far, Ducks are 2-0 and ID1 are 1-1.  Both look like they can move on to the quarterfinals (tournament rules say that top four from each division move on).  Let's go SoCal!

Hockeydad07

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Re: PW AA 2019-2020
« Reply #246 on: November 01, 2019, 10:37:51 PM »
ID1 and Jr. Ducks are currently playing in the Chicago AAA World Invite.  So far, Ducks are 2-0 and ID1 are 1-1.  Both look like they can move on to the quarterfinals (tournament rules say that top four from each division move on).  Let's go SoCal!


ID 2 and Bears are also in the CCM Chicago tournament.  Bears are 1-0-1 and ID 2 are 1-1.

Golden Knight

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Re: PW AA 2019-2020
« Reply #247 on: November 02, 2019, 09:56:54 PM »
Ducks and Ice Dogs both lost in the Quarterfinals of the AAA Jetspeed Division (AAA tier II).  ID lost to the AAA Coyotes, 4-2, and the Ducks lost to the Northwestern Chargers, 4-3.  Both teams play again tomorrow.  Ducks face the Carolina Hurricanes while the ID opponent has not been posted.


I hear that the Bears are doing okay in the Tier III division of the tournament.  Hopefully they can advance and bring home more SoCal success!

Hockeymomx

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Re: PW AA 2019-2020
« Reply #248 on: November 03, 2019, 06:25:49 AM »
Bears are out.  They went 1-1-2.

Golden Knight

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Re: PW AA 2019-2020
« Reply #249 on: November 03, 2019, 11:27:34 AM »
Congratulations to the Ice Dogs 1 for beating Carshield 4-3 to end their tournament.  Ducks tied the Carolina Hurricanes 4-4 to end their day as well.  From what I heard both teams were close to moving on and could have gone further.  From all accounts, people were impressed by the SoCal teams!

JustAnotherHockeyParent

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Re: PW AA 2019-2020
« Reply #250 on: November 04, 2019, 02:27:50 AM »
Anyone have additional scores from yesterday's games?
  • Jr. Reign beat Jr. Gulls 4-2
  • Jr. Flyers beat JK1 2-1
  • JK1 beat Mariners 14-0




alfirst

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Re: PW AA 2019-2020
« Reply #251 on: November 04, 2019, 09:32:46 AM »
In Chicago ID1 and Ducks lost in last 16, not in quarters. There were 4 divisions and 4 teams per each qualified.
Ducks were 1st in theirs and in sweet 16 lost to a team that got only 2 points on Round Robin - and that was vs ID1.
So both teams were eliminated in the early rounds but in close games.
Last games were simply consolations.

Golden Knight

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Re: PW AA 2019-2020
« Reply #252 on: November 04, 2019, 02:42:02 PM »
In Chicago ID1 and Ducks lost in last 16, not in quarters. There were 4 divisions and 4 teams per each qualified.
Ducks were 1st in theirs and in sweet 16 lost to a team that got only 2 points on Round Robin - and that was vs ID1.
So both teams were eliminated in the early rounds but in close games.
Last games were simply consolations.


Both teams should be proud of their success.  From MHR, the Northwest Chargers are the #5 team in the nation right now.  I know Ducks tied them previously, which is a good result for being ranked below them.  From what I can see from the tournament schedule/standings, the Chargers went all the way to the finals and lost to Omaha (MHR #4).  When teams are playing AAA tournaments, anything can happen.  Ducks beat Victory Honda in Detroit, only to lose to a lesser AAA team.  From what I can see from the rankings, the top ten teams seem to be fairly interchangeable.  Losing to a team that had a hiccup in round robin isn't a big deal.


Same is to be said for the Ice Dogs (who appear to have had a good tournament).  One hiccup against the #44 team, Clearwater, does not make them worse than Clearwater.  They then went on to beat the #18 team, Chicago Blues, 4-1, and beat the 76th ranked team, Connecticut Chiefs, 2-1.  Ice Dogs then lost to the AAA Phoenix Coyotes 4-2.  Different days equal different results.  Remember, the Ducks crushed the Ice Dogs 9-2.  Are the Ducks really seven points better than the Ice Dogs?  In my opinion, no, they are not.  There a too many factors to really determine how a team does in top level tournaments.


Kudos to the Ducks and ID for pushing themselves against AAA teams in a AAA tournament!




JustAnotherHockeyParent

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Re: PW AA 2019-2020
« Reply #253 on: November 04, 2019, 02:53:02 PM »
I sure hope MHR gives them lots of love and bonus points for playing in a AAA tournament... a rising tide lifts all boats!

alfirst

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Re: PW AA 2019-2020
« Reply #254 on: November 04, 2019, 03:23:57 PM »
Just couple corrections:


NW Chargers lost in semis to Omaha team, not in final.


Clearwater beat ID 2 team, not ID1


And just FYI - ID1 and Ducks played mid-07 division called Jetspeeds. There was another division where top teams (supposedly higher level AAA) played.
ID2 and Bears played lesser division called Ribcor.
In other state tons of AAA teams more often that not can be really weighted equally vs good AA teams from CA as they do not have those franchise restrictions.


For all the rankings - as everyone does not play everyone a lot depends on the strength of local market teams and how those won/losses are weighted. Personally would not put too much credit on that.


E.g. Goldrush PWA team is ranked higher than ID2 team. I highly doubt GR is any better than ID2.


But yes, CA teams can measure sticks on the "open" market. No trophies so far, middle of the pack results but no blunder.