AAA teams for next season

[BladesofSteel66]

Without specific citations of previous posts... dammmmmmmn this thread is getting to the real-deal nitty-gritty issue(s)!  AND I like it! 

[Fourthliner]

wtf does it matter where a team is ranked on mhr, especially one on which your kid does not play???

flipside, here's why having more aaa teams is worthwhile: go to the caha website and poke around the rosters of the '00 wildcats and '00 gulls from the 2014-15 season. that's the oldest year available on mhr. those teams were ranked 40th and 60th -- "unworthy" of aaa according to some. yet, now five years later, three kids from those teams committed to or are currently playing for ncaa d1 programs, one playing ncaa d3, one major junior (ushl), four playing junior "a" (bchl/nahl), three playing college acha level, and a half dozen still in the ncdc or usphl. and that's from the two "weakest" teams in one of the weaker recent birth years.

those kids got a bantam aaa opportunity which i believe helped their development. would all those kids have gotten to the next level without the benefit of aaa development at that age? we'll never know for sure, but reducing the # opportunities, while the number of kids participating at the bantam ages is increasing, makes no sense to me.  none. does anyone today remember or care where the bantam 00 kings or ducks "ranked"?  smh

Okay, you won me over. Every club in California should field a AAA team.

[Fourthliner]

Just pointing out logically fallacious arguments when they are presented.  If you intended to make a completely different argument than the one you made, there is an "edit" button.

The only thing you pointed out is that you inferred something I didn't write.

[JackBender]

"A DAY AT THE RINK"
A One-Act Play by Jack Bender

RANDOM ASS HAT: Hey, Jack. How's it going?


JACK: Pretty good, Random Ass Hat. 


RANDOM ASS HAT: Gee, Jack. Can you tell us the purpose of CAHA?


JACK: Sure, Random Ass Hat. Let's go look at the CAHA bylaws, shall we?


CAHA 2019-2021 Guidebook
Pg. 73
Part 5: Bylaws and Addendums
Section 20.3 Purpose


The purpose of CAHA, in addition to any purposes set forth in the Articles of Incorporation of the organization, is as follows:
1. To encourage, foster and promote the development and growth of the sport of amateur ice hockey within the State of California.
2. To conduct certain affairs of USA Hockey, to assist in the governance of the Registered Participant Members and Member Teams of USA Hockey and to regulate the sport of amateur ice hockey within the State of California.
3. To encourage and develop the mental knowledge, skills, ability and sportsmanship of all participants with respect to the sport of amateur ice hockey.
4. To conduct State ice hockey tournaments and to select representative Member Teams to participate in USA Hockey District, Regional, and National Tournaments.
5. To carry out all other responsibilities, duties and obligations imposed on CAHA pursuant to the Affiliated Agreement with USA Hockey.


RANDOM ASS HAT: Gee, that first bylaw is interesting, isn't it?


JACK: Yes, it is, Random Ass Hat.


RANDOM ASS HAT: It doesn't really sound like CAHA is following their own bylaws, though, does it?


JACK: No, Random Ass Hat. 


RANDOM ASS HAT: And, correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't say CAHA's purpose is to protect the sanctity of AAA hockey in California or to make sure California clubs are competitive at a national level, does it?


JACK: No, Random Ass Hat.


RANDOM ASS HAT: In fact, it really seems like CAHA has been abusing their power, overreaching, playing favorites, limiting opportunity, suppressing competition, and manipulating amateur hockey for all these years?


JACK: Yes, Random Ass Hat. Yes.


RANDOM ASS HAT: Holy crap. What a bunch of assholes.


JACK: Now you're learning, Random Ass Hat. Nice job.   

THE END

[Fourthliner]

2. To conduct certain affairs of USA Hockey, to assist in the governance of the Registered Participant Members and Member Teams of USA Hockey and to regulate the sport of amateur ice hockey within the State of California.

Hey Jack, but what about #2? "To regulate the sport of amateur ice hockey within the State of California."

[JackBender]

regulate


verb


Definition:
- control or supervise (something, especially a company or business activity) by means of rules and regulations.


Used in a Sentence:
- Yes, CAHA should regulate the rules of USA Hockey... which doesn't say anything about protecting the sanctity of AAA hockey in California or making sure California clubs are competitive at a national level.


Now stop bothering me. I'm working on my next one-act play. It's about Vacaville and flighting. 

[Strawman]

Just pointing out logically fallacious arguments when they are presented.  If you intended to make a completely different argument than the one you made, there is an "edit" button.

The only thing you pointed out is that you inferred something I didn't write.

Please.  I quoted exactly what you wrote.  Whether you have enough neurons to figure out what it implies is the only question.

[Fourthliner]

Sick burn, bro! Gosh, got me so good with that one.

[SkatingDad]

AAA discussions on the board center around national rankings and "competitiveness".  The problem is that most people do not really understand what youth hockey is meant to accomplish.  Nobody, and I mean nobody cares where you were ranked or how many titles you won playing youth hockey.  The purpose of youth hockey is to develop your player so they can play Juniors and then move on the College and/or Pros. Youth hockey is meant to develop your player and only for that purpose.  Limiting the AAA teams limits development opportunity for good players to become good enough to play Juniors.


The NHL affiliates in California did not like the fact that they where not competitive on a national level because it looked back on their namesakes, so they changed the rules to favor them. The NHL teams and affiliates only care how they look and forcing people to play for bad clubs and coaches or to leave the their parents at 14,15 and 16 because of lack of opportunity is not the way to develop kids or players. 


Remember the best coaches rarely have the best records. The best coaches love the game and honor it by developing kids and are not consumed by national rankings and championships. Winning is more fun than losing but, the end goal should not be sacrificed for winning. There will be plenty of time for winning at all cost in Juniors. Just ask anyone who has played Juniors and has observed people or have been cut and fired at the Junior level.

[area51]

Players and parents flee and jump ship not only mid-season, but each and every year as well.  It's spoiled-brat syndrome.  Until you cure that aspect, you will always have players leaving any and every club to go play for the holy anointed Jr. Ducks/Jr. Kings AAA programs.  CAHA fears "diluting" their AAA product and will never allow more teams in LOCAL areas. 


One needs to ask, why do the Sharks perpetually suck as worst team year after year?  It is the only show in town, doesn't that mean they should get the best players in NorCal?  Are NorCal players not as good?  Is the Sharks program not as good?  Is it too far away for families to commute?  What is the answer?  If you put more AAA teams in NorCal, would the teams be better as a group?  We are arguing for that here in SoCal.  The SD area absolutely should be able to have AAA teams at each age division, so should Riverside.  Maybe if there were more options, this state would have fewer, occasional "national champions" and more solid, competitive teams (spreading out talent and encouraging more to join).

Riverside (wildcats) is the reason we have the AAA rule. GSE was approved for 14U AAA last season and they couldn't field a team that they thought was a true AAA team. They dropped to AA and had a great season, but not all clubs do the right thing. People bitched and complained for years about too many AAA teams, now every on bitches and complains about not enough AAA teams. AAA isn't for everyone, it's a big commitment as a family and if that's what you want to do, you'll make the commute. If your kid can't make one of the two or three AAA teams in SoCal, then it's probably not where little johnny belongs.

[SkatingDad]

Riverside (wildcats) is the reason we have the AAA rule.



You do hate the Reign / Wildcats   You have held a grudge since mites.  That was not the reason for the rule change.  The rule was put into place to favor the NHL affiliate teams.  If the purpose was to remove Reign / Wildcats from AAA they would not have teams at 18U and 16U.

[area51]

I wouldn't say I hate the Reign, but I would tell anyone asking me advice to stay away. And they are the reason we have these rules. Pretty much every one of there teams were playing in the wrong division and they would do it year after year. And how in the hell did they get approved for a 16U AAA team next season? Where are the players coming from? oh wait, that's right, BF likes to suck up to the big boys!

[Fourthliner]

AAA discussions on the board center around national rankings and "competitiveness".  The problem is that most people do not really understand what youth hockey is meant to accomplish.  Nobody, and I mean nobody cares where you were ranked or how many titles you won playing youth hockey.  The purpose of youth hockey is to develop your player so they can play Juniors and then move on the College and/or Pros. Youth hockey is meant to develop your player and only for that purpose.  Limiting the AAA teams limits development opportunity for good players to become good enough to play Juniors.

I think the purpose of youth hockey is to foster a love of the game. One of the first things you read on USA Hockey's website is about promoting a lifelong love of the sport. As kids and parents get older and begin to take it more seriously, then you can have a conversation about junior, college or pro. But man, that's so far down the road. I certainly hope that's not what you were thinking when you took your kid to "Lean to Skate."

To your other point, nobody cares about where you were ranked and titles you won in youth hockey. Totally agree. 100 percent.

My point about the rankings in AAA hockey and being competitive is so there is parity in the division around North America. True AAA hockey players and teams should be playing against other true AAA players and teams. The 06 Sens are the best team in North America. They don't want to play the Sharks. It's a waste of time and money for everyone involved. Even if the Sharks do have several true AAA players - it's still a waste of time. The Sharks can't call them and say let's play, we're both AAA! They know they would be laughed at. The Sens want and should be playing other teams who will be competitive. That's true of every level. The Saints AA team does not want to play the Ducks 2 AA team this season. The Ducks 2 probably doesn't really want to play the Saints either. There is no point having those teams playing despite both being AA teams.

The majority of good tournaments ensure there is a competitive balance through these rankings. When the Ice Dogs went to Mo Town this year in Detroit, they didn't play in the top division despite being a "AAA team." They played against AA teams and similarly ranked AAA teams.

If there are more AAA teams in the state, when they travel they're going to be relegated to lower divisions that are on par with AA hockey. Just because a kid is on a "AAA Team" doesn't mean he's playing AAA hockey. And what's so wrong with AA hockey anyways? It's like suddenly tier 2 is awful or something and that it's not a place for development. If your kid isn't dominating or couldn't absolutely dominate AA hockey, he has no business being in AAA hockey. And if a kid is dominating AA hockey, AAA teams are going to come calling. They will say that kid is too good for that division.

The NHL affiliates in California did not like the fact that they where not competitive on a national level because it looked back on their namesakes, so they changed the rules to favor them. The NHL teams and affiliates only care how they look and forcing people to play for bad clubs and coaches or to leave the their parents at 14,15 and 16 because of lack of opportunity is not the way to develop kids or players. 

It's the AAA kids who are leaving the state for better opportunities, more exposure, less travel, juniors or whatever. The bulk of kids leaving are not AA studs who are getting screwed over because they can't play AAA. Interestingly, the AAA kids leaving provides more AAA spots for kids who didn't play otherwise. And guess what? The older teams at the AAA level with the addition of AA players making the jump up aren't very good. Do the math on why that might be.

Remember the best coaches rarely have the best records. The best coaches love the game and honor it by developing kids and are not consumed by national rankings and championships. Winning is more fun than losing but, the end goal should not be sacrificed for winning. There will be plenty of time for winning at all cost in Juniors. Just ask anyone who has played Juniors and has observed people or have been cut and fired at the Junior level.

Might be a reach here. I don't want the topic to change course, so I'll just leave this alone.

[Fourthliner]

]Riverside (wildcats) is the reason we have the AAA rule. GSE was approved for 14U AAA last season and they couldn't field a team that they thought was a true AAA team. They dropped to AA and had a great season, but not all clubs do the right thing. People bitched and complained for years about too many AAA teams, now every on bitches and complains about not enough AAA teams. AAA isn't for everyone, it's a big commitment as a family and if that's what you want to do, you'll make the commute. If your kid can't make one of the two or three AAA teams in SoCal, then it's probably not where little johnny belongs.

THIS!

[BladesofSteel66]

Yes...  We all know about the Wildcats debacle.  Instead of condemning them and ripping away opportunities for more players to develop, maybe CAHA should have stepped in and hit them with a club suspension (deny them AAA for a season).  What CAHA did by eliminating more opportunities for AAA clubs did not treat the problem of that club. 


Wildcats aka Jr. Reign, STILL put teams up into higher levels that DO NOT BELONG.  It happens at that club at every age and level.  Just look at the standings.  That club didn't learn its lesson and that is the problem (regulating club/team declarations). 


Great post by SkatingDad.  There is an assumption that players only develop if the AAA team they are on is "competitive" and highly ranked nationally.  That elitism limits opportunities for OTHER athletes in CA to develop at the AAA level and get the EXPOSURE needed to advance to higher levels in the sport (juniors/college). 


It is another way to keep it a "good 'ol boys club" and honestly an abuse of power by CAHA.  "Abuse of power" is actually defined as oppression.  FYI. We are being oppressed.