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Author Topic: Tryouts are pushed agaoin  (Read 73092 times)

alfirst

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Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2020, 05:04:14 PM »
Justanotherhockeydad - thank you for remarks, really appreciate that.


The only thing I would say - covid IS global but in Europe sports are being played and schools are to be opened, and for the most part all other business/operations are continued  - with some precautions. Some are even allowing limited spectators for pro-sports.
So one can't deny that allowing kids to go to school or play sports is not a part of political agenda here in the US.
And how many (or% wise) kids you see in those ER?


Let's just agree on a presented opportunity for the kids to play hockey without relocating (and changing life of their parents) - as it looks like it's not life/death decision at this point. For the sake of those who do not want to risk it  - why others can't?

justanotherhockeydad

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Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2020, 06:07:49 PM »

The only thing I would say - covid IS global but in Europe sports are being played and schools are to be opened, and for the most part all other business/operations are continued  - with some precautions. Some are even allowing limited spectators for pro-sports. So one can't deny that allowing kids to go to school or play sports is not a part of political agenda here in the US.
- Well, the countries showing success in controlling the spread seem to seriously follow all safety measures... They do the social distancing and they wear masks without bitching abut their freedom being violated. People and their government leaders of other countries for the most part seem to be on the same page, unlike the US. I'm sure we could have limited sport, school, biz u name it if we do a better job at keeping ourselves and other safe.

And how many (or% wise) kids you see in those ER?
- Very few that I've seen. I've seen more covid positive infant/toddlers than teens. We have 86 covid patients in the hospital today as compared to 43 covid patients same time last month. Folks in their 60's being hit the hardest, followed by 70's, 50's, 30's, 40's, 80's, 20's, 90's and teens being the least infected (data from internal email sent to hospital staff).

Let's just agree on a presented opportunity for the kids to play hockey without relocating (and changing life of their parents) - as it looks like it's not life/death decision at this point.
- From a pure death rate perspective, maybe it isn't life or death. But the virus does much more than just kill you. It jacks up your lungs, along with the misery of the flu. But this is not 'just the flu.' 2 entire floors right now are full of covid patients. That does not happen with the flu. Not even close. We have more covid patients than we have ICU beds so ER end up holding and system is then severely backed up. That does not happen with the flu. But if none of them die then I guess it doesn't matter because the absolute death rate is still 'low'... All I'm saying is that hospitalization rate is staggering.

« Last Edit: July 16, 2020, 06:10:14 PM by justanotherhockeydad »

Strawman

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Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2020, 06:21:57 PM »
Justanotherhockeydad - thank you for remarks, really appreciate that.


The only thing I would say - covid IS global but in Europe sports are being played and schools are to be opened, and for the most part all other business/operations are continued  - with some precautions. Some are even allowing limited spectators for pro-sports.
So one can't deny that allowing kids to go to school or play sports is not a part of political agenda here in the US.
And how many (or% wise) kids you see in those ER?


Let's just agree on a presented opportunity for the kids to play hockey without relocating (and changing life of their parents) - as it looks like it's not life/death decision at this point. For the sake of those who do not want to risk it  - why others can't?


Two words: American Exceptionalism

Strawman

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Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2020, 06:29:18 PM »

The only thing I would say - covid IS global but in Europe sports are being played and schools are to be opened, and for the most part all other business/operations are continued  - with some precautions. Some are even allowing limited spectators for pro-sports. So one can't deny that allowing kids to go to school or play sports is not a part of political agenda here in the US.
- Well, the countries showing success in controlling the spread seem to seriously follow all safety measures... They do the social distancing and they wear masks without bitching abut their freedom being violated. People and their government leaders of other countries for the most part seem to be on the same page, unlike the US. I'm sure we could have limited sport, school, biz u name it if we do a better job at keeping ourselves and other safe.

And how many (or% wise) kids you see in those ER?
- Very few that I've seen. I've seen more covid positive infant/toddlers than teens. We have 86 covid patients in the hospital today as compared to 43 covid patients same time last month. Folks in their 60's being hit the hardest, followed by 70's, 50's, 30's, 40's, 80's, 20's, 90's and teens being the least infected (data from internal email sent to hospital staff).

Let's just agree on a presented opportunity for the kids to play hockey without relocating (and changing life of their parents) - as it looks like it's not life/death decision at this point.
- From a pure death rate perspective, maybe it isn't life or death. But the virus does much more than just kill you. It jacks up your lungs, along with the misery of the flu. But this is not 'just the flu.' 2 entire floors right now are full of covid patients. That does not happen with the flu. Not even close. We have more covid patients than we have ICU beds so ER end up holding and system is then severely backed up. That does not happen with the flu. But if none of them die then I guess it doesn't matter because the absolute death rate is still 'low'... All I'm saying is that hospitalization rate is staggering.



Not to descend into rabbit holes, but California's hospital bed occupancy for Covid has been running about 10% or less, we have more open beds than a month ago in LA, and more than at this time last summer.  There are very few places in Europe and none in Scandanavia where mask-wearing etc. is common let alone required.  Not a single person under age 20 has died of Covid in California, and kids that age are at far higher mortality risk from seasonal flu. Which isn't to belittle either illness.  Will be interesting to see how we dig ourselves out of this, but in the meantime a lot more athletes just decided to leave the state if they can.

JackBender

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Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2020, 10:44:48 PM »
One other thing... um... is CAHA really serious about having AAA and AA tryouts on the same date? That can't be their real plan, right?


I mean... that's asking for a major clusterfuck.


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lcadad

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Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2020, 11:11:34 PM »
The problem with this change in course, is that SCAHA voters took it upon themselves to step outside of their area of expertise and meddle in matters that are entirely outside of their charter.  The fact that some rinks are closed and there is uncertainty around their reopening is not SCAHA's problem, but they've used this as an excuse to further delay the organization of teams for the upcoming season, when that is not their job. 

I don't think that it is likely that municipally owned rinks will open anytime soon, or open at all this year, considering the priorities of local city governments.  Did this even cross their minds when they decided to scuttle the already late-to-the-game team tryout schedule in the name of "fairness"?  What certainty will exist in October, that doesn't exist now?  And while we are at it, when was SCAHA ever concerned with leveling the playing field beyond the protectionism of PDR?  Sounds like bullshit rationalization to me.

As is the case every season, most veteran coaches have already identified at least 90% of their roster.  Sure there's a little bit of suspense as to whether a few kids might upgrade or downgrade a letter, or switch clubs, but these clubs would all benefit from signing rosters, which then allows free agents to find a landing spot they didn't expect, or move on to other clubs, and so on down the line.   

The August dates were never great, given the proximity to what for many kids will now be the start of "virtual school" but to take away any chance for team boot camps and practices in August, and the traditional pre-season practices, scrimmages and tournaments, is about as tone deaf a response to what most people are looking for as I can recall, and that's saying something. 

With so much uncertainty around travel outside the state, the least they could have done is provided a platform for teams to figure out what the new normal will look like this season, when realistically, there's not much else for people to do other than hunker down in their homes.  It as if the SCAHA board are more interested in finding ways to scuttle SoCal hockey this season than they are in supporting the clubs and rinks as they figure out how to make things work.     

09 Dad

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Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2020, 12:04:08 AM »
One other thing... um... is CAHA really serious about having AAA and AA tryouts on the same date? That can't be their real plan, right?


I mean... that's asking for a major clusterfuck.


CAHA has still not weighed-in, right?  So, AA and AAA could still technically retain tryouts in August, or early-ish Sept. 


But, we also need to ask ourselves "what's the point" of getting through tryouts as fast as possible?  If games aren't going to be allowed by the Governor, CAHA, SCAHA, or maybe even USA Hockey, than why are we, as consumers, rushing to sign a LOI and thereby obligate ourselves to pay $5-9k to clubs that can't guarantee a single game will be played this season.


So we can practice?  (Allen Iverson voice: Practice??) 
If you want to practice, just go to clinics or sticktimes, and pay by the hour AFTER you get your hour of training.
No upfront $5-9k season fee.
No charge if rinks close.
No charge if your teammate/coach/contact comes down with Covid and you're quarantined for 2 weeks
No charge if you get a common cold and everyone forbids you from entering the rink because you need to occasionally cough.


Now, when CA can guarantee that a season is likely to occur, or that I'll get something like my "money's worth" for this dicey season, then wake me up for tryouts & club payments.  Until then, I'll just plod along at $50-60 per hour.
 



Hockey sophist

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Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2020, 08:28:48 AM »
This is a scary story from a Florida Fox news outlet.   It has implications for schools and ice hockey everywhere in the US.   A scary detail in this article and others is that even with mild symptoms, this disease may have lifelong impacts.   We are planning and hoping for our son to play hockey and attend a brick & mortar school this academic year but the risks and challenges go way beyond when SCAHA and CAHA hold their tryouts.  Agree with much of what has been written here in the last 2 days but these a truly extraordinary times and this pandemic is changing our lives and way of life.

 At least 31 percent of children tested in Florida are positive for COVID-19: report  Posted 11:32 am, July 15, 2020, by FOX News Channel         
            Young students with backpacks walking down hallway of elementary school
    ORLANDO, Fla. — Nearly one-third of every person under 18 years old tested for the coronavirus in Florida are positive for the virus, according to a report on Friday.
Palm Beach County’s health department director, Dr. Alina Alonso, warned county commissioners Tuesday about the potential long-term health consequences for children who catch COVID-19. She said the virus could cause lifelong damage even for children with mild illnesses.
“They are seeing there is damage to the lungs in these asymptomatic children. … We don’t know how that is going to manifest a year from now or two years from now,” Alonso said, according to the Sun-Sentinel. “Is that child going to have chronic pulmonary problems or not?”
Florida had tested 54,022 Florida residents under the age of 18, according to the state’s COVID-19 pediatric report on July 10. Of those tests, 16,797, or just over 31 percent, have come back positive. Meanwhile, the positivity rate for Florida’s entire population stands at roughly 11 percent.

alfirst

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Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2020, 10:11:59 AM »
Meanwhile - and I am not sure where USA hockey stands here - games are being played now. Chicago CCM tournament has just started - that adds to inequality across the states - youth sport wise...

JackBender

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Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2020, 10:13:41 AM »
I suppose I'm talking more about AAA/AA than A/B.  A/B teams are more localized, so they can pull things together quicker once the greenlight is given.   


However, AAA/AA cannot.  AAA especially are national programs, so they have to plan accordingly, including getting uniforms, booking tournaments, figuring out travel, etc.  Practice is also very important for these teams.  When families invest the time and money in a sport at this level, they expect the team to be in a good spot when they travel.  Sticktimes don't do that.  Practice does.     


Despite California's problems, USA Hockey is not stopping.  Chi-Town Shuffle is right now, with over 400 teams.  Tournaments are happening.  The season will start with or without California's participation.  Travel hockey isn't public school.  It's not a right.  If people don't want to do it, they don't have to.   


And if CAHA doesn't want kids moving around and going from sticktime to sticktime from Panorama City to Carlsbad... they'd roster teams and remove the first layer of risk. 
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Knuckle Puck

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Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2020, 11:36:34 AM »
jack, my point is that there are few practical and good out of state options left at this time for those who have not already made a decision. several of the top hockey states (mass, mich, ill) are just as iffy on whether there will be a season as cali. its likely too late to get admitted to a ne prep. canada not an option for non-citizens. ive heard some looking at arizona and texas, others investigating minnesota public hs (but minn transfer rule is tough-“entire family” has to relocate). as an earlier poster mentioned, many kids have already left; good luck to those who didn’t make the move.

alfirst

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Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2020, 11:41:32 AM »
JackBender - that's exactly my point - let's play some hockey  - for those who are willing to do it.
Those stick times/lessons/wanna-be-practices/camps are pretty full - people/kids are longing to have some sort of a season - and I think most of them understand
that some restrictions will be imposed and that would not be your normal season; some are reluctant to do much travel (especially by air)
but still to stall everything for the sake of those who would play only if... what - vaccinated? - does not seem right at all.
I can't relocate just because of hockey or just out of the blue - it's just crazy - there should be some sort of resolution locally...


And on the other point - about coaches knowing 90% of the team - when core stays - yes, when coach stays  - yes. But there's some movement in both coaching and
players camps - so some teams might not be formed even 50%+ - again, if there is no season all that does not matter - but if there is it's better be some resolution around the corner.


Worst thing is uncertainty - let's create return to play plan - CAHA/SCAHA - common!!!

Ice-o-Matic

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Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2020, 01:56:55 PM »
Hockey Sophist,


Here's another story from Fox out of Orlando:  [size=78%]https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/fox-35-investigates-florida-department-of-health-says-some-labs-have-not-reported-negative-covid-19-results[/size]


Multiple labs in Florida were caught reporting positive results but not negative results.  This skews the percentages and makes it seem that a higher percentage of people are testing positive.


The bottom line in the U.S. is that because *everything* has become so politicized, people are playing with numbers.  We don't actually *know* what's going on.  I mean, I read quite a bit, and I don't know -- none of us laypersons really do.  I understand that everybody *thinks* they know, but do they really??


Personally, I think those who want to play hockey should play hockey.

Hockey sophist

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Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2020, 02:48:50 PM »
Ice-o-Matic, agree on both accounts.   Testing in the US has marginal utility because the tests are flawed and especially with false positives.  Testing in other countries may be better.  Still, the numbers were striking.

Someone else commented that professional soccer is back in Europe so why can't we have education and hockey.   Earlier in the week, I saw a number for daily new cases in Germany of about 350 something for a population of 80 million people.   Florida with only about 20 million people was running a high of 15,000 to just under 10,000 new cases a day.   Comparing the US or, specifically Florida, to Germany makes no sense without considering relatively effectiveness of public health policies.  But agree, we cannot know with precision what is really happening but the data we do have gives us a ballpark basis to decide what to do.
My quote of the Fox News data was interesting because some here have argued that kids are unlikely to get Covid-19 or it will amount to nothing.   That assumption could be wrong on both counts making the decision about ice hockey more difficult.  Listen to one's head or one's heart and play?   Our son will probably play knowing full well the risk to him, his family, and school mates.  Hockey is a powerful addiction.   



alfirst

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Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2020, 03:15:53 PM »
What I meant was - those countries were having it as bad or worse - Italy, Spain, Germany (to a lesser extent) - they all back to almost normal now - and why there's some spike in cases here and there in Europe - so far they are operating, including sports.
Guess, they do not have election year coming up.


There are plenty of controversial data all around, and numbers can be played either way - but if in CA there are no severe cases/death among kids - why shut them down? Adults handling them - take precaution - and let the kids continue their lives - they will have enough crisis once they grow up - we can save them the child years.