Author Topic: Tryouts are pushed agaoin  (Read 15369 times)

Strawman

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Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
« Reply #105 on: July 27, 2020, 10:40:22 AM »
okay.. this is getting like religion.   I am trying to be as clear as possible.  Its NOT THE KIDS that will be impacted.    KIDS become carriers and spread it to people unknowingly.  I am worried about who gets indirectly infected.   Its called transmission by a carrier.  The Kid is the carrier, the the one who most likely will die.    This is exactly what CDC and state is worried about.


The chance of killing someone in a car accident on the way to the rink is far greater.  So here's a solution: let's cancel mankind.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2020, 10:43:06 AM by Strawman »

fistocuffs

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Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
« Reply #106 on: July 27, 2020, 10:49:53 AM »
Get out of bed - risk
step in to slippery shower - medium risk
eat quick and processed food - longer term risk
get in the car and drive - high risk
take stairs or elevator - risk
being inside a heavy building in earthquake territory - risk
open mouth at work or communicate in written word - risk
nibble on lunch room community food - risk
use your "clean cup" that sits on your desk - risk
drive again - high risk
do some manual labor at home - risk
drive kid to sports, rink, activity - high risk
pick up fast food on way home - longer term risk

At any point freedom allows us to pick and choose which of these we do or don't do and how each affects ourselves and all those around us.  Millions refuse to drive or fly and we don't hear about it.  SO PLEASE feel free to exercise your freedom of choice BUT do not attempt to transfer your perceived or real risk on to others.  Some things in life are worth "sitting out".  Now is your chance to do just that and do it quietly........

As for me and my house, we have weighed the risk of Covid and determined the mental health of us and our own offspring, as it relates to the 2nd and 3rd and 4th order consequences of trying to avoid "risk", is indeed orders of magnitude riskier by staying in the bubble. 


It makes sense now. its ok to not agree with you, as long as i do it quietly, so as not to anger you.   For the sake of self preservation..  you have convinced me.  CDC is wrong, its overblown, its just like the flu, we are worrying for nothing.  Thanks for clearing that up. 
« Last Edit: July 27, 2020, 10:51:00 AM by fistocuffs »

fistocuffs

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Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
« Reply #107 on: July 27, 2020, 10:51:57 AM »
okay.. this is getting like religion.   I am trying to be as clear as possible.  Its NOT THE KIDS that will be impacted.    KIDS become carriers and spread it to people unknowingly.  I am worried about who gets indirectly infected.   Its called transmission by a carrier.  The Kid is the carrier, the the one who most likely will die.    This is exactly what CDC and state is worried about.


The chance of killing someone in a car accident on the way to the rink is far greater.  So here's a solution: let's cancel mankind.


I take it you have not been personally impacted by COVID..

fistocuffs

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Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
« Reply #108 on: July 27, 2020, 11:07:04 AM »
I do believe everyone here has points here.   There are people who are going to wait and sit it out until State and CIF believe youth sports are ready.  There are people who believe the benefits outweigh the risks to start now. 


For the people that believe now is the time to get going on Hockey, I feel now is the time to start your own league and teams.   There are rinks out there. that will support you, and there are probably enough parents and families that want to start now.   Instead of fighting it, just create a new league now, form some teams, and get going.  if USA hockey is giving you grief, SCAHA and CAHA specifically, go straight to USA - its a phone call away, they probably feel the same way as a lot of parents in Socal that want to get going.  Or reach out to AAU - they will most likely be helpful too.


Then this whole discussion becomes a mute point. IMO.


justanotherhockeydad

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Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
« Reply #109 on: July 27, 2020, 11:45:14 AM »
It's obvious that we all have to manage and decide how much risk we're willing to take for for our kids and family. Whether you agree with the rules and decisions made by our governor, lets face it, we are lucky that rinks haven't completely shut down and that hockey is still an option for our kids, at least for now.

Since I work in an ER, my view is definitely biased. I see what covid can do and I see how contagious it is. Again, this is NOTHING like the flu. Nothing. Last week as compared to previous 2-3 weeks did slowed down a bit for hospitalization for us, but not enough to even consider the spread to be plateauing. I hear there are 31000+ positive cases in Florida for person under 17 and 300+ death. How you want to look at the infection rate vs death rate is up to you, but the truth is that scientists are inconclusive regarding how kids spread covid, and how and why kids seem to recover better than their adult counterpart. Literally every research you find says they're not sure how covid affect most kids. Make your decisions accordingly I guess.

However, what bothers me is that it is absolutely obvious that in order to defeat/slow this pandemic, it will take a collective effort from EVERYONE. Forget hockey, what about the economy, schools and our daily lives? If we don't do our part, this will never return to any form of normality. I see pictures of camps with kids crowding in the lobby, crowding on the ice and picture taken with large group of kids on ice, no mask (understandable on ice...) and no distancing. Not to mention, I still see kids not wearing masks in the rink... You know that if you don't follow rink rules, your rink could be shut down right?

Can't people just follow rules and guidelines, for the sake of the kids' safety, even if you don't agree with how your 'freedom' is being trampled?! I mean, we have rules about wearing pants, right? Is your freedom being violated because you can't run around buck naked? We have rules preventing folks from driving 130mph on the freeway, right? Is your freedom being trampled there also?

Again, whether you believe it or not, Covid is real and it doesn't give a flying F what you believe in. You will be infected if you're not careful. You may not die, but you may also spread it to others who may die. Do what you will, but at the very least have the courtesy and respect for others who may not be as healthy as you, wear your mask, tell your kids to wear their masks, and do your best to social distance.

Good luck to you all.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2020, 11:52:42 AM by justanotherhockeydad »

Stick Tap

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Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
« Reply #110 on: July 27, 2020, 12:31:44 PM »
The number of epidemiologists and public health experts on here is truly impressive.
Wear a mask. Wash your hands. Don’t be a jerk. It’s easy stuff, but as long as we have people out doing their own thing, schools and hockey will be shut down for our kids.


And promptly proceeds to give advice as an epidemiologist and public health expert. Well played.

Let's just wear masks because that seems to be working.  But wait... One month after California Gov. Gavin Newsom unilaterally ordered state residents to wear masks in most public settings, the average daily number of coronavirus cases in the state has increased by over 160%

I'm sure it's just the people who don't believe in masks who are getting sick, right?

That said, if I have to wear one so I can watch my kid play hockey, sure, I'll happily wear it.

KickSave

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Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
« Reply #111 on: July 27, 2020, 01:14:48 PM »
Cute. But I was actually simply repeating the rather simple advice from those experts.


You think people are following that mandate? Maybe if everyone did, we’d actually know something, like whether it works or not.

Stick Tap

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Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
« Reply #112 on: July 27, 2020, 01:38:11 PM »
Cute. But I was actually simply repeating the rather simple advice from those experts.


You think people are following that mandate? Maybe if everyone did, we’d actually know something, like whether it works or not.


You mean the same "experts" who had said up until a couple of months ago that masks don't work?

Strawman

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Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
« Reply #113 on: July 27, 2020, 04:52:26 PM »
It's obvious that we all have to manage and decide how much risk we're willing to take for for our kids and family. Whether you agree with the rules and decisions made by our governor, lets face it, we are lucky that rinks haven't completely shut down and that hockey is still an option for our kids, at least for now.

Since I work in an ER, my view is definitely biased. I see what covid can do and I see how contagious it is. Again, this is NOTHING like the flu. Nothing. Last week as compared to previous 2-3 weeks did slowed down a bit for hospitalization for us, but not enough to even consider the spread to be plateauing. I hear there are 31000+ positive cases in Florida for person under 17 and 300+ death. How you want to look at the infection rate vs death rate is up to you, but the truth is that scientists are inconclusive regarding how kids spread covid, and how and why kids seem to recover better than their adult counterpart. Literally every research you find says they're not sure how covid affect most kids. Make your decisions accordingly I guess.

However, what bothers me is that it is absolutely obvious that in order to defeat/slow this pandemic, it will take a collective effort from EVERYONE. Forget hockey, what about the economy, schools and our daily lives? If we don't do our part, this will never return to any form of normality. I see pictures of camps with kids crowding in the lobby, crowding on the ice and picture taken with large group of kids on ice, no mask (understandable on ice...) and no distancing. Not to mention, I still see kids not wearing masks in the rink... You know that if you don't follow rink rules, your rink could be shut down right?

Can't people just follow rules and guidelines, for the sake of the kids' safety, even if you don't agree with how your 'freedom' is being trampled?! I mean, we have rules about wearing pants, right? Is your freedom being violated because you can't run around buck naked? We have rules preventing folks from driving 130mph on the freeway, right? Is your freedom being trampled there also?

Again, whether you believe it or not, Covid is real and it doesn't give a flying F what you believe in. You will be infected if you're not careful. You may not die, but you may also spread it to others who may die. Do what you will, but at the very least have the courtesy and respect for others who may not be as healthy as you, wear your mask, tell your kids to wear their masks, and do your best to social distance.

Good luck to you all.


This is Trumpism in reverse. "I hear there are 31000+ positive cases in Florida for person under 17 and 300+ death."


In fact, this over-states the under-17 mortality in the entire United States by many times.  As of a few days ago, there had been 25 COVID deaths in the 1-15 age cohort in the entire country since February (compared with 90 in the same age group who died from seasonal flu during the same period, i.e., during flu "off season").  During that period there were exactly 2 deaths in Florida between the ages of 0-15 and 0 in California under the age of 20.  The infection fatality ratio for those under 20 is about 0.0002% (more than an order of magnitude less than the flu, and several times less than their annual risk of dying from lightning strikes). 


If adults choose to shut the world down because they are afraid for themselves, so be it, but let's not pretend we're doing it for the kids.




justanotherhockeydad

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Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
« Reply #114 on: July 27, 2020, 05:30:37 PM »
Thank you for correcting my mistake. I'm not sure why I wrote 300+ deaths, it must've been something else I was thinking about, likely hospitalization number. But, you're correct, I was wrong. The article I read said

"On July 16, the state had a total of 23,170 children ages 17 and under who had tested positive since the beginning of the pandemic, according to the Florida Department of Health. By July 24, that number jumped to 31,150.That's a 34% increase in new cases among children in eight days. And more children in Florida are requiring hospitalization. As of July 16, 246 children had been hospitalized with coronavirus. By July 24, that number had jumped to 303."



fistocuffs

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Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
« Reply #115 on: July 28, 2020, 08:23:57 AM »
It's obvious that we all have to manage and decide how much risk we're willing to take for for our kids and family. Whether you agree with the rules and decisions made by our governor, lets face it, we are lucky that rinks haven't completely shut down and that hockey is still an option for our kids, at least for now.

Since I work in an ER, my view is definitely biased. I see what covid can do and I see how contagious it is. Again, this is NOTHING like the flu. Nothing. Last week as compared to previous 2-3 weeks did slowed down a bit for hospitalization for us, but not enough to even consider the spread to be plateauing. I hear there are 31000+ positive cases in Florida for person under 17 and 300+ death. How you want to look at the infection rate vs death rate is up to you, but the truth is that scientists are inconclusive regarding how kids spread covid, and how and why kids seem to recover better than their adult counterpart. Literally every research you find says they're not sure how covid affect most kids. Make your decisions accordingly I guess.

However, what bothers me is that it is absolutely obvious that in order to defeat/slow this pandemic, it will take a collective effort from EVERYONE. Forget hockey, what about the economy, schools and our daily lives? If we don't do our part, this will never return to any form of normality. I see pictures of camps with kids crowding in the lobby, crowding on the ice and picture taken with large group of kids on ice, no mask (understandable on ice...) and no distancing. Not to mention, I still see kids not wearing masks in the rink... You know that if you don't follow rink rules, your rink could be shut down right?

Can't people just follow rules and guidelines, for the sake of the kids' safety, even if you don't agree with how your 'freedom' is being trampled?! I mean, we have rules about wearing pants, right? Is your freedom being violated because you can't run around buck naked? We have rules preventing folks from driving 130mph on the freeway, right? Is your freedom being trampled there also?

Again, whether you believe it or not, Covid is real and it doesn't give a flying F what you believe in. You will be infected if you're not careful. You may not die, but you may also spread it to others who may die. Do what you will, but at the very least have the courtesy and respect for others who may not be as healthy as you, wear your mask, tell your kids to wear their masks, and do your best to social distance.

Good luck to you all.


This is Trumpism in reverse. "I hear there are 31000+ positive cases in Florida for person under 17 and 300+ death."


In fact, this over-states the under-17 mortality in the entire United States by many times.  As of a few days ago, there had been 25 COVID deaths in the 1-15 age cohort in the entire country since February (compared with 90 in the same age group who died from seasonal flu during the same period, i.e., during flu "off season").  During that period there were exactly 2 deaths in Florida between the ages of 0-15 and 0 in California under the age of 20.  The infection fatality ratio for those under 20 is about 0.0002% (more than an order of magnitude less than the flu, and several times less than their annual risk of dying from lightning strikes). 


If adults choose to shut the world down because they are afraid for themselves, so be it, but let's not pretend we're doing it for the kids.


Thank you Strawman,  I felt very uneducated by CDD, WHO, most of the countries leadership, Almost every doctor/nurse I know.  For a second there, I was believing them, and most of my family (who fall under the "medical field" category).   It certainly takes a mental genius to really understand that this is really overblown and the world is overreacting.   I mean, original projections said 120k-160k deaths,  after some genius reviews - it was altered to more like 60k back in April/May - the rest are simply over reporting and inaccurate reporting.   We are fortunate to be living in a time where mental geniuses are abound.  There is no doubt that if we had more people that did not overreact back in 1918, that Spanish flu would not have killed millions.  And it would be rightfully called the Spanish Flu - vs The Kansas, USA flue.   Deaths Probably more like less than 20 individuals, vs millions.   I cannot thank you enough for clarifying

UhhhhDuhhhh

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Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
« Reply #116 on: July 28, 2020, 10:26:23 AM »
I take it you have not been personally impacted by COVID..

I HAVE been personally impacted by Covid 19.  I’ve had it.  I had a few days of sore muscles.  Two lady’s in my office had it. One had loss of smell and nothing else, the other who is obese and has diabetes had a slight cough and a little difficulty breathing.  I have a friend I play hockey with age 56, he had it and not one symptom.  My 82 year old mother had it and had muscle aches and a sore throat.  My 85 year old father who has a heart condition never got it but continues to go out and see his friends and up until the latest shutdowns was going to the gym and to restaurants almost every day.  I kept telling him to stay home, "you're high risk" but he refused to stay home and says he’s not going to live in lockdown and he isn’t afraid to die.  I see tons of very old people out and about everyday. They are the ones at risk and many obviously don’t seem afraid.

It’s OK if you want to live in fear and stay in your house.  If you’re going to do that, make sure everybody else in your house goes nowhere and see’s no one else; including going to the grocery store and including your son or daughter seeing one friend who saw one other friend etc., etc.  That’s what it would take to TEMPORARILY stop/slow the virus.   I have an essential business to run so it's off to work for me.  Don’t push your fear onto others with silly scenarios about driving through a mall.  Until there’s a vaccine, the virus will continue to go through communities, nothing will stop it.  Masks, hand washing may slow it’s spread but like New York City or Sweden or other places that‘ve had the virus run it’s course, IT WILL, and some unhealthy people will die, then it will slow and you will see the cases dwindle.  It’s SCIENCE "listen to the science", it’s called the survival of the fittest, natural selection, and evolution; EDUCATE YOURSELF and what is the CDD.  Your fear mongering isn’t going to stop it, neither will your sarcasm or condescending posts.  The original estimated deaths was 2.2 million in the USA then revised down to 60,000ish and now on the high end it's 240,000 or 0.00075 of the population and thus hardly a risk.

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data.page

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

805hockey

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Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
« Reply #117 on: July 28, 2020, 05:26:07 PM »
Soooo, basically what I glean from this thread is that it sounds like no hockey this season...at least for us non-tier folks

fistocuffs

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Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
« Reply #118 on: July 29, 2020, 07:06:09 AM »
Thank you for setting me straight.  You are right. I am fearful of dying. I am in the high risk group.  When ever I get any sort of respitory illness.  I end up at the hospital with difficulty breathing.  It’s been this way since I was s kid.  I grew out of it in my twenties. But now that those years have passed. It’s pretty much back.  I personally would like to skip it entirely and more importantly. If I do end up getting it.  Not having to wait for icu or hospital bed would be a good thing. Even if eveyine gets it. It would be great if not all people got it at once.   

[/size]
[/size][size=78%] If you were tested positive for Covid and made it through. I am very happy for you.   You have little to fear at this point.  I am still on the business end of this.  So I worry.  And I feel I am not the only one that has a healthy respect for avoid this for fear of dying [/size]

Nowhearthis

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Re: Tryouts are pushed agaoin
« Reply #119 on: July 29, 2020, 09:58:00 AM »
Soooo, basically what I glean from this thread is that it sounds like no hockey this season...at least for us non-tier folks


Well, for now it's literally month to month push outs based on case counts and state mandates.  Nothing is solid or will be, even the in person schooling.  Unfortunately unmasked contact sports will continue to be a last priority.  I would hold onto your money.  Getting any back is a huge drill.