Pee Wee A 2016-17

[area51]

There's really two problems that have lead to this.

1. They just added Peewee BB, and as a new division clubs aren't yet comfortable with what it means, and whether or not they should play in that division. 

Obviously at each Tier there are impediments for the clubs and parents involved, making those fundamental decisions.  At the "travel" tier (Anything A or under)  there are always going to be teams that could move one way or another, but for clubs that are only able to field one team, or possibly one team and a second "new to the sport" team, there is inevitably a need to find the balance between serving the best players on the roster via more challenging competition, or the less skilled players, who will be overmatched.   When people complain about teams, they are almost always complaining about teams where there are substantial extremes from the median sklll level of the team.  Occasionally and historically there have been clubs that seem to regularly field teams that are entirely in the wrong division (not talking about the Riptide A team from last season!!!!)  but that's a whole different issue, and not the norm.

2.  Peewee is the end of the line for the "Play up" era, that started with the implementation of Mite ADM cross ice.

What has happened since that time, is that it has become the norm for individual kids as well as entire teams to play up a division.  This starts with disgruntled Mite families who have kids that have essentially outgrown cross ice, and then continues year after year.  For some reason, once on this habitrail wheel,  people are convinced that their kids are not going to make the NHL unless they are playing at the next available age group, whether or not that is appropriate or even logical.  Again this year we see numerous '06's playing Peewee A when they could have played Squirt A, and believing that this will make their kids better hockey players in the long run, even though there is absolutely no data to support this that doesn't involve anecdotal Wayne Gretzky or Sidney Crosby stories.  These generational players who are complete outliers, seem to drive decision making, while the story of Auston Matthews who learned the game playing 3v3 on small rinks is ignored.  Meanwhile, all those Canadian and "traditional US hockey market" NHL players all grew up playing against kids in their own age group.

Scaha, which at one time had clear rules forbidding this practice, has essentially rubber stamped it the last few years.  It's bad enough that so many kids are unnecessarily playing up a division against kids 2-3 years older, but when you consider the thought process behind this idea, it becomes clear that the practice doesn't have the same cache when bragging to others about how your kid is so advanced they HAVE to play in a higher age group, if you don't have at least one A to tack onto their league.   I know that many parents just follow the team and the coach along on this journey, but that doesn't make it any more reasonable.

So here we arrive at a Scaha Peewee A division with 24 teams as we speak, 16 games, and eight playoff spots to be won.  Teams will play completely unfair schedules and find their season is essentially over by christmas.  Other lesser teams will make it into the playoffs purely due to the luck of the draw.  The top 4-6 teams may never play each other unless they meet up in tournament play. 

Teams at the bottom of the A division who will be beaten by 98% of the division, and absolutely crushed by the top 70%, would be far better off in BB, but that would mean losing that all important 'A'.    I'm sure in a few seasons things will level out, but apparently this season, the Peewee A division is going to be the crucible where all the issues of the last 5 years are made manifest.

spot on!

[area51]

I don't think 06s playing Peewee A is the problem. Which teams are majority 06s besides Wave 1 and Kings 2? Wave 1 will be a playoff team. No idea how the Kings will do. I suspect not as well because they have a handful of 06s playing AA. But, they did tie a Heat team that I presume is filled with 04s & 05s.


It seems the real problem with the division are the teams with 04/05 players who shouldn't be playing at this level. And it seems there is the same problem in AA.

06's should be playing Squirt A, but Squirt A should only be the elite teams. Since that's not the case, kids play up a division.
I've seen some nasty collisions this season between 04's and 06's and we're only 8 games. And the 06 parents are screaming and yelling for a penalty. This is another problem with kids playing up. 04's will be moving to Bantam next season. Peewee AA and even Peewee A should be allowing a lot more body contact, but Ref's will almost always call a game to protect the little kids. These are Peewee games that should be played with 04's & 05's, and an occasional 06, but not at the level we see today. This is an important season for 04's to get ready for checking next season.

[lcadad]

I agree 06s should be playing Squirt A and that they should stop letting kids play up. But you failed to tell me how the 06s are the problem for the watering down of the lower half of the division this season in peewee A when it seems that only 2 of the 24 teams have a large group of 06s on their roster.

The point was already made.  There are some predominantly 06 teams.  There should be none.  There are also '06's sprinkled throughout the many Peewee A and even AA teams.  There is an '06 Ducks team in AA.  Of course the argument is always made that these teams are on the AAA track, so they have to be excused for some reason, even though we are talking 10 year olds. I know of quite a number of '06's playing Peewee A at various clubs just off the top of my head. 

The coaches take a few of the best '06's because they see their potential and relative skills, but as pointed out already, what happens is "large kid runs into small kid" and the incompetent refs call a penalty, and everyone loses. 

If those kids were forced instead to either play at their age level, we would have more than 9 squirt A teams, and subsequently more BB and B teams and there would be necessary consolidation purely due to the simplicity and elegance of age group divisions that have existed for 60+ years.  Meanwhile, in other hockey markets most travel hockey teams are birth year teams, and they solely play against other kids of the exact same age, and nobody is going to the organization and asking to have their squirt tryout for the Peewee team.  They would be laughed at for even suggesting it.

[area51]

I agree 06s should be playing Squirt A and that they should stop letting kids play up. But you failed to tell me how the 06s are the problem for the watering down of the lower half of the division this season in peewee A when it seems that only 2 of the 24 teams have a large group of 06s on their roster.

SCAHA is the reason for the watering down of Peewee A. Move teams to the proper division and don't let kids play up without an exemption. Maybe have a max number of kids allowed each season, or team must be a birth year team and prove they can play up. The Ducks 06 Peewee AA team is a legit Peewee AA team, same with the Kings AA2 team, I believe they are a mixed 05-06 team. These kids know how to battle, even though the parents and coaches still want penalties called every time their undersized players are flattened, most of the time legally.
I don't blame them for playing up, and would probably have my son playing up if he was an 06, but that's because Squirt A isn't elite. Maybe it's time for Squirt AA as a SCAHA division only, 6-8 teams get moved up after pre season. You register as Squirt A and if you're good enough, we'll move you to AA.

[area51]

I agree 06s should be playing Squirt A and that they should stop letting kids play up. But you failed to tell me how the 06s are the problem for the watering down of the lower half of the division this season in peewee A when it seems that only 2 of the 24 teams have a large group of 06s on their roster.

The point was already made.  There are some predominantly 06 teams.  There should be none.  There are also '06's sprinkled throughout the many Peewee A and even AA teams.  There is an '06 Ducks team in AA.  Of course the argument is always made that these teams are on the AAA track, so they have to be excused for some reason, even though we are talking 10 year olds. I know of quite a number of '06's playing Peewee A at various clubs just off the top of my head. 

The coaches take a few of the best '06's because they see their potential and relative skills, but as pointed out already, what happens is "large kid runs into small kid" and the incompetent refs call a penalty, and everyone loses. 

If those kids were forced instead to either play at their age level, we would have more than 9 squirt A teams, and subsequently more BB and B teams and there would be necessary consolidation purely due to the simplicity and elegance of age group divisions that have existed for 60+ years.  Meanwhile, in other hockey markets most travel hockey teams are birth year teams, and they solely play against other kids of the exact same age, and nobody is going to the organization and asking to have their squirt tryout for the Peewee team.  They would be laughed at for even suggesting it.

well said!

[MO-ICETIME]

I keep hearing the Wave #1 team is an 06 team, but I see a handful of 05 kids on that team. What the ratio.. 60/40?

[Just Saying]

I agree 06s should be playing Squirt A and that they should stop letting kids play up. But you failed to tell me how the 06s are the problem for the watering down of the lower half of the division this season in peewee A when it seems that only 2 of the 24 teams have a large group of 06s on their roster.

SCAHA is the reason for the watering down of Peewee A. Move teams to the proper division and don't let kids play up without an exemption. Maybe have a max number of kids allowed each season, or team must be a birth year team and prove they can play up. The Ducks 06 Peewee AA team is a legit Peewee AA team, same with the Kings AA2 team, I believe they are a mixed 05-06 team. These kids know how to battle, even though the parents and coaches still want penalties called every time their undersized players are flattened, most of the time legally.
I don't blame them for playing up, and would probably have my son playing up if he was an 06, but that's because Squirt A isn't elite. Maybe it's time for Squirt AA as a SCAHA division only, 6-8 teams get moved up after pre season. You register as Squirt A and if you're good enough, we'll move you to AA.

Everyone makes really good points... it should also be noted that there will likely be only 7 Squirt A teams once two teams supposedly drop.

[lcadad]

I agree 06s should be playing Squirt A and that they should stop letting kids play up. But you failed to tell me how the 06s are the problem for the watering down of the lower half of the division this season in peewee A when it seems that only 2 of the 24 teams have a large group of 06s on their roster.

SCAHA is the reason for the watering down of Peewee A. Move teams to the proper division and don't let kids play up without an exemption. Maybe have a max number of kids allowed each season, or team must be a birth year team and prove they can play up. The Ducks 06 Peewee AA team is a legit Peewee AA team, same with the Kings AA2 team, I believe they are a mixed 05-06 team. These kids know how to battle, even though the parents and coaches still want penalties called every time their undersized players are flattened, most of the time legally.
I don't blame them for playing up, and would probably have my son playing up if he was an 06, but that's because Squirt A isn't elite. Maybe it's time for Squirt AA as a SCAHA division only, 6-8 teams get moved up after pre season. You register as Squirt A and if you're good enough, we'll move you to AA.

Well It's an interesting case.  I'm sure you know that the 06 Ducks team had a very important '05 last season, and ended up with a small roster.  Both things worked greatly to their advantage.  On the east coast, they would simply be recognized as a AAA team, and they would play other AAA and AA teams in the region.  In other words, they could have simply concentrated on national competition, and they would have done very well, only without having their '05 ,who was a AAA player at his own age group. 


Every birth year AA team has used AA as a springboard to AAA, and the assumption is the team is staying together for a few years, perhaps with some minor adjustments year to year, so that when they get to Bantam they are on the path for high level national competition.  The problem is that the way this is being done is to throw them in with older kids who gain nothing from having to play younger kids in league play.  The same thing could be accomplished with scrimmages which many teams seek out aggressively anyways.

[skates]

I don't think Wave 1 will make a playoff spot unless they get the luck of the draw of playing the lower teams as every one calls it. I think they will be middle of the pack. Have not seen them play against any of the top peewe A teams. I think their size will affect them. Just my guess from looking at who they have played so far.

[trans4761]

I'M DONE......THIS SHIT US STUPID !!

MAKE YOUR POINT WITHOUT WRITING A NOVEL  !!!

......the problem is that 05/04s are playing in the PW division.
             
            Are you shitting me ?

[lcadad]

I'M DONE......THIS SHIT US STUPID !!

MAKE YOUR POINT WITHOUT WRITING A NOVEL  !!!

......the problem is that 05/04s are playing in the PW division.
             
            Are you shitting me ?

I have yet to see anyone state this opinion.  What are you referring to?

[MO-ICETIME]

I'M DONE......THIS SHIT US STUPID !!

MAKE YOUR POINT WITHOUT WRITING A NOVEL  !!!

......the problem is that 05/04s are playing in the PW division.
             
            Are you shitting me ?

HAHA! Did I miss that post?


This thread is on FIRE today!

[Just Saying]

I don't think Wave 1 will make a playoff spot unless they get the luck of the draw of playing the lower teams as every one calls it. I think they will be middle of the pack. Have not seen them play against any of the top peewe A teams. I think their size will affect them. Just my guess from looking at who they have played so far.

I believe they are all '06s... and thus far, they've been doing quite well. They're fast and skilled, which is tough to beat at this level, regardless of size.  Teams dropping from AA will affect things, of course, but I'd be surprised if they didn't make the playoffs or come very close.

If you want to look at a problem '06 team, look at Kings 2, the all '06 PWA team. All the elite talent went to the AA team, which is '05/'06.  What was left has no business in PWA, let alone PWBB or PWB.  Several kids on the team played SQB last year... and not that well.  If they stay at PWA, they will be lucky to win one game, let alone score more than 20 goals on the season.   

[skates]

Exactly why you can't say yet whether or not the wave 1 team will make playoffs.  They played the Kings 2 team and won only 6 to 0. What top pw A team has the wave 1 team played so far and won, where you can say they would make playoffs? They have only played the lower end teams so that puts them in the middle of the pack so far.  Now don't get me wrong they could grow ad become faster with the more practice but I am just guessing now what it looks like.

[area51]

I'M DONE......THIS SHIT US STUPID !!

MAKE YOUR POINT WITHOUT WRITING A NOVEL  !!!

......the problem is that 05/04s are playing in the PW division.
             
            Are you shitting me ?

WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN ALL DAY !!