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Author Topic: Pee Wee A 2016-17  (Read 337176 times)

6607

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Re: Pee Wee A 2016-17
« Reply #540 on: January 29, 2017, 05:01:16 PM »
OC3 beat Condors 9 to 5.  Other scores?

mcca

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Re: Pee Wee A 2016-17
« Reply #541 on: January 29, 2017, 05:15:41 PM »
OC1 beat Blaze 10 - 1.

MO-ICETIME

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Re: Pee Wee A 2016-17
« Reply #542 on: January 29, 2017, 05:16:56 PM »
I heard the Eagles beat the Wave1? Not sure of the final score, but i think it was 2 goal DF....

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Re: Pee Wee A 2016-17
« Reply #543 on: January 29, 2017, 07:29:03 PM »
OC3 beat Condors 9 to 5.  Other scores?


Wow what happened?  Seems the defense might of slipped a little for both teams.  Sounds like a lot of action. Glad OC walked away with the win.

skates

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Re: Pee Wee A 2016-17
« Reply #544 on: January 29, 2017, 07:34:01 PM »
I heard the Eagles beat the Wave1? Not sure of the final score, but i think it was 2 goal DF....


It is posted. Eagles 5 Wave 1: 2


I got the goal differential of 3 correct and was only 1 goal off for the OC 3 game.  Looks like the Wave 06 team is falling in the standings.

6607

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Re: Pee Wee A 2016-17
« Reply #545 on: January 31, 2017, 08:48:43 AM »
Re: the OC3/Condors game, pretty high octane affair.  There were some soft goals, but the game was greatly influenced by the number of penalties - 21 all told.  More than half of the goals were scored by special teams.

MO-ICETIME

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Re: Pee Wee A 2016-17
« Reply #546 on: January 31, 2017, 09:06:13 AM »
Re: the OC3/Condors game, pretty high octane affair.  There were some soft goals, but the game was greatly influenced by the number of penalties - 21 all told.  More than half of the goals were scored by special teams.
WOW! 21?? Bad calls or just a physical game? Any kids get 5 or more or a total team effort?

lcadad

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Re: Pee Wee A 2016-17
« Reply #547 on: January 31, 2017, 11:18:31 AM »
Down to crunch time with very little margin for error for the last few playoff spots. 

Good luck to all the teams, and my condolences on the ridiculous number of teams in the division, and associated "strength of schedule" factors. 

With that said, seems like a lot of parity amongst the playoff teams, and the play downs should be a wild ride. 

SkatingDad

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Re: Pee Wee A 2016-17
« Reply #548 on: January 31, 2017, 11:21:25 AM »
Re: the OC3/Condors game, pretty high octane affair.  There were some soft goals, but the game was greatly influenced by the number of penalties - 21 all told.  More than half of the goals were scored by special teams.
WOW! 21?? Bad calls or just a physical game? Any kids get 5 or more or a total team effort?


The officiating changes from week to week.  The kids never know how they are suppose to play.  A team that goes from averaging 6-8 penalties a games plays a game were there are none.  Do you seriously think there were no penalties?  A team goes from averaging 1 or 2 penalties to 10 in one game.  Do you seriously think they became thugs over the course of the week?  The inconsistent officiating in a non checking league is frustrating. The refs do not seem to know what is allowed and how to have physical play within the rules. The players have to go week to week to see how the game is going to be called so they know how physical they can be.  The problem is that most kids can not figure this out at this young age, if ever...
« Last Edit: January 31, 2017, 11:23:16 AM by SkatingDad »

lcadad

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Re: Pee Wee A 2016-17
« Reply #549 on: January 31, 2017, 12:25:41 PM »
Agree with you SkatingDad.

It's no better in AA, because play levels are not part of the criteria qualifying you to referee either.

What is very apparent is that in other regions, there seems to be a better understanding of the basic rules of the sport.  This can be a minor shock to Cali kids who are being trained to avoid penalties.  There is a reason for this, but I'll address that later.

For example, there is an entire book on "Body contact".  I know that many parents are not aware of this, and I wouldn't expect them to be, but there is a lot of contact allowable at this age group, and yet I routinely see penalties called on what should have been legal contact because the ref heard a "loud sound".  Rubouts, and contact that entails closing out an advancing player via a rubout along the boards are good examples of what is suppossed to be legal body contact, and yet turns into a penalty.  For 50/50 pucks, kids sometimes run into each other.  That is not a situation where a kid should be penalized because they knocked down another kid who was going for the same puck, again assuming that the kid was focused on the puck and not on trying to check the other player.

There's also the ever present "big kid collided with smaller kid while going for 50-50 puck" which 90% of the time ends up with "Big kid" in box. 

I watch refs routinely make calls on plays they can't see because the ref is looking at the backs of the players and "guessing" that there was a trip or something else that occurred. 

At the end of the day, refs are highly fallible.  It is not easy to referee a game, and let's face the facts that experienced refs want nothing to do with youth hockey.  It is not worth it to them to deal with the low pay, travel and early morning games, not to mention the belligerent parents yelling at them regardless of whether they are competent or not.

Ostensibly the levels are this:

Level 1 (Mites)
Level 2 (Squirts)
Level 3 (Peewees - Midgets + High School)
Level 4 (Midget Tier 1 & 2 Nationals)

So theoretically a referee should have 3 years of experience at Peewee, although realistically they could have 2 years, and freshly passed the level 3 exam and clinic).  Along the same lines, a very inexperienced ref (basically 1 season) can easily be reffing a Squirt A game, where the players themselves have been playing 3-4x as long as the ref has been certified.  There is only so many refs available and willing, so in a pinch a level 1 ref can be coaching a Squirt game, and on up the ladder.

I don't see a lot of officials coming into the profession who have comfort and experience with the sport.  This leads to situations where the refs are challenged just by the mechanics of skating adequately, and consequently they can't get into the right spots to see play, avoid high traffic areas, or  even avoid falling on their backs.  This is in basic violation of the rule of thumb, which is that refs should skate at the same level or better than the players they are reffing.  I see lots of games where it's apparent the refs are not even close to the speed and level of the kids they are reffing.

But the biggest thing effecting what we all see is that the focus of referees from USA Hockey down, is "player safety".  When a ref sees something they think was "dangerous" they will call a penalty because that is the focus of the job, per the training they are now receiving.  They are essentially being encouraged to take a sport that is inherently chaotic and full of intrinsic physical contact, and to try and make it "safe".  In many case since they never played it themselves, they really don't understand what is safe and what isn't.  So we get games occasionally like the one you described where clearly a ref lost his mind.  But even routinely, I find that refs are calling too many penalties that aren't penalties at all.  Then you go to Minnesota, Detroit, Boston or Canada and find out how the game is played everywhere else.  From what I've heard from other people, the kids do tend to acclimate, but in our local leagues, it's more often than not a train wreck.  I find it helps to remind myself that it's not personal, and without refs, we wouldn't have an organized game at all to occupy us on Sunday morning.




6607

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Re: Pee Wee A 2016-17
« Reply #550 on: January 31, 2017, 12:43:22 PM »
With regard to the OC3/Condors game, from my perspective, by and large, this was not a case of ticky tack calls.  Condors had 13 penalties if the double minor is counted as 2 penalties.  8 of these were roughs, cross checks and body checks, all of which came after OC had established a 3-0 lead at the end of the first period.  To my eye, I only saw one "protect the players" type of call, and it was a coincidental high sticking call where two big players were playing very physically with their sticks very high.  Saw one correct non call that sent the wrong message - one player tried to level a kid on the boards, missed his attempt to check/charge, and no call was made.  Also saw one ticky tack slashing called after a player was levelled away from the puck and then expressed his displeasure by tapping the other one on the ankle.  But by and large, thought the game was pretty well reffed. 

Icelife

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Re: Pee Wee A 2016-17
« Reply #551 on: January 31, 2017, 01:33:22 PM »
The most frustrating part for the kids happens when the refs make a call that they don't understand and there isn't anyone who explains it to them. When the kids ask what they did, they get another penalty for talking back. It's BS at times and that is part of their job! I see it all the time!
Also, had my kid smashed into the boards by a ref who backed up into him while he was going after the puck, fell on top of him and caused a delay of game and the other team scored. How is that fair? That goal caused us the game at 1-0.
My favorite is when the refs swear at the kids and tell them to shut up! I don't talk to my kids the way a few of the refs do and yet they continue to officiate despite a not so pleasant complaint.
All in any given Sunday, but doesn't mean we have to like it or agree with it!
Playing in other states has been a huge wake up call for the kids who have that luxury. Other parts of the country have taught how to play aggressive and fast without the penalties and for the most part are consistent with calls. Checking from behind is the big call in Canada and often comes because kids are trying to play at their tempo.
Nonetheless. Best of luck this weekend!

Let's all remember, these are kids!

SkatingDad

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Re: Pee Wee A 2016-17
« Reply #552 on: January 31, 2017, 01:37:27 PM »
With regard to the OC3/Condors game, from my perspective, by and large, this was not a case of ticky tack calls.  Condors had 13 penalties if the double minor is counted as 2 penalties.  8 of these were roughs, cross checks and body checks, all of which came after OC had established a 3-0 lead at the end of the first period.  To my eye, I only saw one "protect the players" type of call, and it was a coincidental high sticking call where two big players were playing very physically with their sticks very high.  Saw one correct non call that sent the wrong message - one player tried to level a kid on the boards, missed his attempt to check/charge, and no call was made.  Also saw one ticky tack slashing called after a player was levelled away from the puck and then expressed his displeasure by tapping the other one on the ankle.  But by and large, thought the game was pretty well reffed.


I am sure that many of those Checking and Roughing penalties where not actually penalties.  Teams with big players often get treated unfairly and the Condors are a big team (especially that one kid). As stated the refs do not understand what type of body contact is allowed, I rarely see those called correctly.  If PW games were  called correctly the Squirt teams would not be playing up because they would be physically unable to do so.  This is what happens when those Squirt teams go East and the games are called more to the actual rules, they get a rude awakening.

Icelife

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Re: Pee Wee A 2016-17
« Reply #553 on: January 31, 2017, 01:45:36 PM »
Yep! I remember a kid last season who was the biggest kid on his team and constantly was in the box because kids ran into him and fell. 9 times out of 10 he played the puck. The same kid would also get called because he was one of their best skaters and would use his hips/behind to back up into someone or step in front of someone for the puck while the other kid fell or was in the act of falling and bam! He got the call. It's sad because they get so mad and fear the next penalty, they can't play the game it's supposed to be played.
Let's all remember, these are kids!

6607

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Re: Pee Wee A 2016-17
« Reply #554 on: February 01, 2017, 09:14:29 AM »
Skating Dad, with regard to the calls at the OC3/Condors game, I welcome a discussion about what should/ should not have been called if you were actually there.  Here's the narrative of the Condors game.  OC controlled the game throughout the first period, and then some of the Condors lost control of their emotions as they amped up the physicality of their play, e.g., goalie pummeled OC player with stick and blocker, leveling kids from behind with cross checks, taking runs at kids along the boards, etc.  Condors were getting their money's worth out of these - I can tell you point blank that my boy at least had the biggest and darkest bruises he has ever had after this game.  From my perspective in the OC offensive zone, the penalties were not of the borderline was it a check or proper body contact variety, and there could have been a lot more calls made on the big guys than actually were made.  The special teams play for both teams had some outstanding moments, but was a wash.  Factor special teams out, and it would have been a 5-1 OC win   Happy to defer to others who were there with regard to play in the D zone.