AAA teams for next season

[TheFourthA]

Straw:  we aren’t talking normal distribution of wins and losses.  This is the math:
06 Sharks have won 0 of 29 regular season CAHA games.  They have been outscored 251-25.  And their mhr rating is better than the San Diego group.  And that’s assuming there isn't the almost  2 point regression that the Ice Dogs experienced when they (a much deeper
Group), jumped to AAA.  I hope I am wrong and that they have great success.

[Fourthliner]

Then there are some simple facts regarding this season.  The Kings have emerged this season as the superior team.  They have yet to lose a game, and a +42 GD in 9 games.    Well surely that is because they are nipping the #2 Ducks, right?  Sorry, but you did ask for this:

Kings 4 - Ducks 1
Kings 6 - Ducks 0
Kings 7 - Ducks 2


The Sharks are in last place behind the ID, so I won't bother to post their scores.  I suppose that CAHA ought to drop the Ducks and the Sharks from AAA next year, as neither team seems to be able to compete with the Kings team this year? 

What an asinine argument. First of all, you left out the 2-0 and 3-2 scores. Second, Ducks have beat and tied the #3 team in the country. Sometimes match-ups just make a fight. And perhaps, the Kings are superior to the Ducks this season. That's okay. They're a great team. But to try and act like the Ducks and the Sharks are on par because neither can beat the Kings is just stupid. And you know it.

[Landshark]

You missed the point by a country mile THEN called him stupid. Bravo, sir. Bravo.

[Fourthliner]

Hey, good luck with your stupid podcast! I’m sure your kid’s AA experience in a non traditional hockey market is something the world is just dying to hear about!

[Landshark]

Another stupid. Damn son. You are on fire.


If you think that demeaning my son by labeling his level is a great way to make your point, I would rather not enjoy your company.  Even if it’s just you listening to me spout stupid shit.

[Fourthliner]

Another stupid. Damn son. You are on fire.

Haha. I'll just leave that there.

If you think that demeaning my son by labeling his level is a great way to make your point, I would rather not enjoy your company.  Even if it’s just you listening to me spout stupid shit.

Darn. I was really hoping we could hang out at your kid's CAHA weekend.

[TheFourthA]

IcaDad,


Lots to cover here.  First, there is nothing funny about my math regarding the expense of adopting a CAHA weekend system for AAA (which CAHA has expressly reserved the right to do).  We did two seasons of those, and I am painfully familiar with which venues are commutable and under what circumstances, as well that most other similarly located families made the same decisions. Escondido and Valencia, for example, are commutable for a one-off game for us, but not for a three day weekend of games.  We have suffered through 615 am start times at CAHA weekends, so forgive me if I think it is absurd to suggest that I drive my kid home by 11:30 and then have to get him up at 330am to drive back. Now, who knows where CAHA would schedule the weekends, but if it were a 6 team division, I am pretty sure Escondido, NorCal and Valencia would host at least 1 each.  Maybe I get lucky and they are all at KHS.  But I’m assuming 4-6 hotel nights, CAHA weekends fee, coaches fees/expenses, food and for many, air fare and rental cars for the NorCal trip. $1500 actually sounds conservative to me.


With regard to competition, it wasn’t too long ago that you argued that there were AA teams that were going to be non competitive and should drop for the benefit of their own players based on 4 games at the jamboree.  We have three seasons worth of data on the Sharks.  We have the fact that the Sharks and Kings actually had a tournament game count at a CAHA game to avoid playing each other again.  So when I see CAHA adding a team which looks to project to be similar to (and probably worse than) the Sharks it’s a huge issue. 


I am also happily aware that there are some elite players as well as merely AAA ready players who happen to be playing AA.  And they are doing just what you would expect them to - standing out.  IF G2 were ready to compete at AAA, I think I should see more of their players at the top end of the leader boards. 


And at least the Gulls have a pure 06 team.  The Bears don’t, and would have to “Build-AAA-Bear”  almost from scratch in seven weeks.  They aren’t permitted to talk to out of club kids yet so they can (legitimately) have no idea who would come over.


I would argue that having expanded AAA to the Dogs last year, it would have been prudent to consolidate gains and have the scattered AAA players find homes with existing teams.  The Dogs have had some turmoil and turnover so getting a few of those kids is/has been and would be a shot in the arm.


I think we owe it to our best players to do our best for them.  Teams not competitive at AAA should be in AA and teams not competitive in AA should be in A. Maybe the answer here is to fix AA rather than damage AAA.

[JackBender]

The smart money is on Sharks 06 being 0-12 next year.   

[BladesofSteel66]

Safe word?
DRACARYS!

[lcadad]

Lots to cover here.  First, there is nothing funny about my math regarding the expense of adopting a CAHA weekend system for AAA (which CAHA has expressly reserved the right to do).

Nice strawman argument there.  Adding 2 AAA teams does not require converting AAA to the CAHA weekend system. 

I think we owe it to our best players to do our best for them.  Teams not competitive at AAA should be in AA and teams not competitive in AA should be in A. Maybe the answer here is to fix AA rather than damage AAA.

All depends on your definition of competitive.   The more this is discussed the more obvious it is that the definition of "competitive" is what those that only want to preserve the status quo think it is, no matter how many times others point out the clear hypocrisy obvious in the claim that CAHA AAA is a model of competitiveness when it often isn't even close.  And when you have 3 frigging team, that's a pretty low bar.

When you can explain how the prospect of playing 6 more games in California is going to harm AAA teams, you might have an argument.   Don't pretend that the AAA teams aren't filling in their meager "local" schedule with scrimmages, and regularly playing some of the upper echelon AA teams already. 

[lcadad]

Hey, good luck with your stupid podcast! I’m sure your kid’s AA experience in a non traditional hockey market is something the world is just dying to hear about!

Stay classy Fourthliner.  I guess that only Hockey parents in Canada should be allowed to get in front of a mic and talk about Hockey -- or at least Minnesota or Boston.  Why bother to read or post on Calhockey either?  Shouldn't we all be reading the Michigan youth hockey boards instead? 


It says a lot about you that your petty personal attack would involve mentioning the level of hockey a kid plays at in a demeaning way.  BTW, LS has a kid playing AAA, just so ya know.


I don't believe I know you personally, nor do I know what team(s) your kid(s) are on, but as you seem to have failed at following my previous arguments, let me be as clear as I can.  I was in no way seriously suggesting that the '06 Ducks AAA team should be dropped from AAA.  I was pointing out the hypocrisy of the argument being made by a number of people in this thread, that the Gulls, Bears and ID should not be allowed to field '06 AAA teams next year because they might not be "competitive".  You seem to be the only person who missed the argument and took it literally.

[TheFourthA]

I will just address the scheduling issue for now.  AAA is scheduled differently than AA.  Presumably because there are so few teams and the need to preserve flexibility for AAA travel, CAHA does not issue a schedule.  It falls upon the managers to work out games.  That’s workable when there are three teams and a manager only needs to get three ice slots and negotiate out six total games and the league schedule is all of 9 games.  But expanding to 6 teams
means a league schedule of 45 games, and each team has to coordinate 15 games.  That’s not feasible.

[Fourthliner]

You seem to be the only person who missed the argument and took it literally.

Says the guy who constantly puts words in my mouth and then proceeds to make straw man arguments.

And I understood full well what you wrote and the exaggerated point you were trying to make. I thought it was a weak argument.  I think it's you who has actually misunderstood my argument from jump street.

People are advocating for more AAA hockey teams and for them to be closer to their homes. And I wish unicorns existed too. The fact is, we were all dealt a hand, but we chose to sit at the table. (The people with daughters who play hockey have it really hard.)

Many people seem to be against a system that filters kids to a few programs with AAA hockey. It works in Texas. It works in Chicago. If you think that's unfair, fine. I think having just a few AAA teams in the state would be better than adding another team that rivals the Sharks. I don't think having a team like Meijer AAA hockey club is good for anyone. I think the Sharks would have benefited from playing AA this season. They would have played more games, been more competitive and had more fun. And lastly, if your kid is dominating AA, there will be AAA teams who want them. I'm sorry if that club isn't close to your house. I want kids to earn their AAA spot, not turn AAA into participation trophies because they think it will magically lead to their kid's improvement and a college scholarship.

[lcadad]

Straw:  we aren’t talking normal distribution of wins and losses.  This is the math:
06 Sharks have won 0 of 29 regular season CAHA games.  They have been outscored 251-25.  And their mhr rating is better than the San Diego group.  And that’s assuming there isn't the almost  2 point regression that the Ice Dogs experienced when they (a much deeper
Group), jumped to AAA.  I hope I am wrong and that they have great success.

There's nothing wrong with MHR for what it is, but unless teams are playing each other regularly, it can only predict so much.  It also segments AAA from AA, so the relative rankings are irrelevant in the case of the Gulls.


The ID team for various reasons did not generate a consolidated AAA team.  Considering the factions and how that came together, it looks like the ID iced a solid team for much of the season, which only goes to show that there is more talent and kids able to reach the AAA level than naysayers will ever admit. 

[Strawman]

Straw:  we aren’t talking normal distribution of wins and losses.  This is the math:
06 Sharks have won 0 of 29 regular season CAHA games.  They have been outscored 251-25.  And their mhr rating is better than the San Diego group.  And that’s assuming there isn't the almost  2 point regression that the Ice Dogs experienced when they (a much deeper
Group), jumped to AAA.  I hope I am wrong and that they have great success.

I get it. Historically the Gulls and Sharks suck. Really.  Badly. And that helps explain why the Gulls AAA program imploded before. But the overwhelming majority of AAA games that California AAA teams play are outside the state.  And in many birth years the Kings and Ducks suck too.  There are plenty of equally bad AAA teams for them all to play. It’s a big continent with lots of “bad” AAA teams.  I just don’t see why California has to pick the winners and losers every year before they even hit the ice.  It doesn’t seem to work very well.