AAA teams for next season

[Landshark]

Let’s face it though. The Ducks 06 team isn’t in the conversation of being a real AAA team either.  It’s the kids who couldn’t make the Kings team and AA players. Same thing actually.

[Strawman]

IcaDad, looking through your posts here, you are creating strawman arguments.  I don’t read any of the posts arguing against radical expansion of AAA as seeing AA as so talent deprived that it can’t produce kids each year capable of being impact players at AAA.  What I see them as arguing, is that AAA can’t be expanded greatly without changing the level of the competition it provides.  I also read them as adopting a different standard - it’s not just can a player make the back end of the AAA roster, but how many players would succeed at AAA.  Players don’t develop by failing at AAA and decent AAA teams are not put together with 15 average or back end players.  So the real question isn’t whether there are back end, average (or even impact) AAA players scattered throughout AA in California, it’s whether there are critical masses of a mix of good and average AAA players concentrated in the likely areas of expansion.  And we can dream about the days of the Old Republic, but we can’t seriously argue that formerly great clubs like OC should have an AAA team
When they can’t put together a good AA team.


The closest thing I watched to an expanded AAA division was the CAHA pre select camp with 6 teams of 06s.  The  overall level of play wasn’t anywhere close to AAA or
Even top AA.  I think it’s  what AAA parents wish to avoid AAA becoming. 


There’s another argument you made that I wish to address as well.  You argued that the AAA teams are regularly scheduling scrimmages against AA teams.  I can only speak definitively about the 06 Ducks, and tell that’s just not accurate.  The Ducks scheduled two pre-season or early season scrimmages against O5 AA teams.  Apart from that,they have sought out AAA competition, even flying to Detroit to play Michigan AAA teams.  Trust me when I say that AAA parents wish that AA here was as strong as you think.

Of course the elephant in the room here is that there is a long history of AAA teams playing AA teams (typically minor vs major) and not doing as spectacularly well as those high-paying and very demanding AAA parents expect.

[TheFourthA]

It’s not an elephant in this discussion.  IcaDad was arguing that there wouldn’t be any harm in playing against additional AAA teams (which are birth year) because they were already scheduling those games against the AA analogues, at least that’s how I interpreted it.  As far as major AA v minor AAA in my experience the major year team usually wins (but my player’s teams have only been involved in that sort of match up a few times). 

[notTHATdad]

Let’s face it though. The Ducks 06 team isn’t in the conversation of being a real AAA team either.  It’s the kids who couldn’t make the Kings team and AA players. Same thing actually.

No dog in this fight, but I assume you are being an idiot troll. Saying the #16 ranked team out of 100 AAA teams in the country 'isn't a real AAA team' because they are in the same area as the #4 ranked team is beyond asinine.

[notTHATdad]

By the way, just feeling compelled to add this to the conversation, given it's late Saturday night, and how much Jr Sharks bashing there has been on this thread, but the CAHA AAA finals for 14AAA's, 15AAA's, 16AAA's and 18AAA's are happening this weekend, and all FOUR Jr Sharks teams are in the finals. No other club managed more than 2.


No idea what will happen tomorrow - maybe none of them get through, as all the finals teams are deserving, and the Jr Sharks are probably underdogs in all of them - though it does mean they are all going to districts.


As someone threw at me earlier in this thread, maybe some others should "embrace the suck" a bit.

[lcadad]

I don't think you know what a Strawman argument is.


This comes down to either, you think clubs other than the Ducks, Kings & Sharks should be able to have AAA teams the same way those teams do, or you don't.  After that, there are only facts, opinions and anecdotal evidence.


You either think all the kids who could play AAA are already playing AAA or you don't.  After that, there are only facts, opinions and anecdotal evidence.


I don't really care if you believe that there are other kids who would be strong AAA players, who currently play AA or even A.  It's an irrefutable fact, and we could make a list of those kids from the last 3 years, but we won't because it's the policy of this board not to list names or talk about individuals in anything other than vague reference.  Every year there is turnover at the AAA teams.  Kids rise and fall in favor.  Kids leave the state for brighter horizons.  Some kids that weren't even on the radar of the AAA teams come and take a top position at one of the 3 AAA teams.  It's in the historic record of CAHA AAA over the course of the existence of the current CAHA system.   


I'm not going to debate what you personally experience as a parent of one kid on one of the socal teams at one birth year, because it's irrelevant, and also something that is personal to you, and not in any way personal to me.

There’s another argument you made that I wish to address as well.  You argued that the AAA teams are regularly scheduling scrimmages against AA teams.  I can only speak definitively about the 06 Ducks, and tell that’s just not accurate.  The Ducks scheduled two pre-season or early season scrimmages against O5 AA teams.  Apart from that,they have sought out AAA competition, even flying to Detroit to play Michigan AAA teams.  Trust me when I say that AAA parents wish that AA here was as strong as you think.

Ah, so you admit that you scrimmaged some '05 AA teams.  You got smoked by the Bears and tied the '05 AA Ducks2 team, who came in 7th of 10 in flight1, and had a lot of turnover.  Why weren't you able to handle a couple of '05 AA teams?   You are the 11th ranked '06 AAA team in the US right now, right? 


At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what anyone points out as evidence.  All the best '06 kids play AAA, yet a team this year which came essentially from Siberia (well KHS) was able to get within a goal or 2 of your longstanding 11th ranked team in league play on multiple occassions, in its first year of existence.  That's not a strawman, it's a fact.  It happened.  Deal with it.

[lcadad]

Let’s face it though. The Ducks 06 team isn’t in the conversation of being a real AAA team either.  It’s the kids who couldn’t make the Kings team and AA players. Same thing actually.

No dog in this fight, but I assume you are being an idiot troll. Saying the #16 ranked team out of 100 AAA teams in the country 'isn't a real AAA team' because they are in the same area as the #4 ranked team is beyond asinine.

Landshark trolling? Never.      

[alfirst]

[/size][size=78%]At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what anyone points out as evidence.  All the best '06 kids play AAA, yet a team this year which came essentially from Siberia (well KHS) was able to get within a goal or 2 of your longstanding 11th ranked team in league play on multiple occassions, in its first year of existence.  That's not a strawman, it's a fact.  It happened.  Deal with it.[/size]


And that Siberia team even does not have all the best 06s on their roster as couple of them actually playing for AA for variety of reasons.

[lcadad]

And that Siberia team even does not have all the best 06s on their roster as couple of them actually playing for AA for variety of reasons.

Almost an exact quote from one of my prior posts when I first brought this up in the thread.      

[alfirst]

Sorry about that then; discussion got so long can't keep up with everything...

[lcadad]

Sorry about that then; discussion got so long can't keep up with everything...

No apologies needed.  Nice to see a relevant fact reiterated really.

[notTHATdad]

This comes down to either, you think clubs other than the Ducks, Kings & Sharks should be able to have AAA teams the same way those teams do, or you don't.  After that, there are only facts, opinions and anecdotal evidence.

There's one easy way to 'prove' you are a AAA player. Make a AAA team.  Otherwise you are by definition suggesting 'dumbing down' AAA and diluting the existing talent pool. (Unless you are some conspiracy parent who thinks 'the fix is in' for certain players... in which case, we have nothing to discuss really.)


Yes, there are exceptions due to geography which need to be dealt with (like Norcal, or the plight of SD folks), and exceptions occasionally from year to year where you get a cluster of players that can compete at AAA as a 'one off'.


Could the SoCal talent pool withstand being diluted in general though? Maybe. Maybe not. It's not clear in my mind. Maybe one in 10 AA players could be playing AAA. Take the top 1-2 from all the SoCal AA teams who WANT to play AAA, and do you have another AAA team? Maybe you have the numbers, maybe not, and then you get into geography, etc, and maybe it doesn't come together.  Remember you need about 18 players that can commute to a single rink 4 times a week, that WANT to do AAA.


Again, it probably depends on the year. Which is how CAHA is handling it.


Like I said, my suggestion to any kid (or dad) who's frustrated they aren't on AAA is simply prove it. Do the work, and Make. The. Team. It's what tryouts are for. They happen every year.